NYTimes opinion page: How I Learned to Take the SAT Like a Rich Kid

[Sebastian (a lady)]

OK, I get what you are saying. Then the title is misleading, since it has nothing to do with being rich, but with having educated parents. Which is absolutely not the same thing.

 

He was attending a high cost summer program with kids from families that were very well off.

 

His point is that something that is widely understood and acted on by high income families (who also tend to be well educated and have parents who are married) is possible for others to understand and act on.

[bibiche]

No, absolutely not. Not all college educated people (or even people with graduate degrees) are rich - very far from it.

LOL Certainly not. I read that and thought "Tell that to all those with a PhD in Humanities!"  

[madteaparty]

He was attending a high cost summer program with kids from families that were very well off.

 

His point is that something that is widely understood and acted on by high income families (who also tend to be well educated and have parents who are married) is possible for others to understand and act on.

But the wealth thing is just not true. Take for example an SAT-like test which is the sole basis of admission into specialized high schools in NYC. There's huge controversy every year because large numbers of Asian kids are represented in those that make the cut off. This is pure merit. This does not correlate with wealth. Article in NY times a few year back about kid whose parents owned a laundrymat and he used library books while working all summer to make it.

Maybe "how to take the SAT as a rich kid" is a more politically correct thing to say that "how to play the game like an immigrant"?

Edited April 11, 2017 by madteaparty

[Arcadia]

I knew what the SAT was and took it, in what you'd consider a third world country. There were even prep materials in the USAID office or some such.

Asia might be more test prep aware due to cultural heritage/history of entrance exams.

 

From a JANUARY 25, 2012 NY Times article An Indian Student’s Guide to the SAT and ACT Admissions Exams

" “The fact is that for highly selective American institutions, a strong showing in standardized tests, a strong curriculum and good grades are all necessary but not sufficient conditions for admission.â€

...

Testing information and practice tests for the ACT, SAT and SAT subject tests are available at no cost on the Web sites of the ACT and the College Board. In addition, the advising centers of the United States-India Educational Foundation (Usief) EducationUSA, located in New Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata, and Mumbai, provide test prep resources, including classes, and some administer the SAT and other tests."

 

From a 2014 IBTimes article SAT Test 2014: Number Of International Students Taking College Admission Exam Doubles, Student Visa Applications Up it seems the testing landscape has changed.

"The number of international students taking the SAT doubled in the past eight years, falling in line with a growing trend that has seen a record number of students from abroad come to the United States for college. More than 300,000 international students took SATs in more than 175 countries last year, according to the College Board, which administers the test. "

Edited April 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[madteaparty]

Asia might be more test prep aware due to cultural heritage/history of entrance exams.

 

From a JANUARY 25, 2012 NY Times article An Indian Student’s Guide to the SAT and ACT Admissions Exams the testing landscape has also changed with times.

" “The fact is that for highly selective American institutions, a strong showing in standardized tests, a strong curriculum and good grades are all necessary but not sufficient conditions for admission.â€

...

Testing information and practice tests for the ACT, SAT and SAT subject tests are available at no cost on the Web sites of the ACT and the College Board. In addition, the advising centers of the United States-India Educational Foundation (Usief) EducationUSA, located in New Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata, and Mumbai, provide test prep resources, including classes, and some administer the SAT and other tests."

 

From a 2014 IBTimes article SAT Test 2014: Number Of International Students Taking College Admission Exam Doubles, Student Visa Applications Up it seems the testing landscape has changed.

"The number of international students taking the SAT doubled in the past eight years, falling in line with a growing trend that has seen a record number of students from abroad come to the United States for college. More than 300,000 international students took SATs in more than 175 countries last year, according to the College Board, which administers the test. "

Not Asia, and these articles are fairly recent; but it doesn't matter.

[Arcadia]

Not Asia, and these articles are fairly recent; but it doesn't matter.

I don't mean you are from Asia. What I meant was the testing landscape has changed from one or two decades ago with much more international test takers from test intensive countries upping the test prep level for tests like SAT.

[regentrude]

But the wealth thing is just not true. Take for example an SAT-like test which is the sole basis of admission into specialized high schools in NYC. There's huge controversy every year because large numbers of Asian kids are represented in those that make the cut off. This is pure merit. This does not correlate with wealth. Article in NY times a few year back about kid whose parents owned a laundrymat and he used library books while working all summer to make it.

Maybe "how to take the SAT as a rich kid" is a more politically correct thing to say that "how to play the game like an immigrant"?

 

Probably. Because blaming things on wealth is easy. Otherwise, one would have to examine why certain immigrant groups can produce a culture of achievement and excellence that is missing in certain domestic demographics... and that will very quickly veer into non-politically correct territory.

This is much more about culture than about wealth.

[RootAnn]

I live in a small town in ACT country. Only the "top" kids are allowed to sit for the PSAT and even some of them don't. Most of the parents don't know when it occurs. (A couple parents, including one former homeschooling mom, found out after the test that their kid didn't take it either because they didn't know about it or their kid was home sick that day. NO information was sent home about it at all. I don't know when they last had a NMSF.)

 

Most parents around here did not study for the ACT/SAT growing up. Like many previous posters said, they were told to just show up because you couldn't study for it. They figure it is the same now. As a fourth child, I benefitted from my mother's experience with the previous three kids. She listened to the eldest's guidance counselor, but found out enough with Child #2 (who went straight to the Marines!) to get some prep into Child #3! I did a summer prep class that was offered to the top students of my high school.

 

I think the "rich kid" thing is because some of the ACT/SAT prep courses are $$. Of course, not all are and there are many free resources, too. But, you have to look for them or be aware of them. And, the self-study ones are the ones which often take the most follow-through on the kid's part. If you don't know how beneficial studying for these type exams is, you might not put the effort in. (Even if you do know, some kids find it hard to do it on their own.)

 

Our state has recently adopted the ACT as one of the state tests for juniors. All juniors will be required to take it going forward. So, the school district has paid to have a prep class added into the school year. They take so many English, Math, and Science periods to study for the ACT with the prep course. There is free-for-the-student extra web-based prep as a side benefit of the school district-paid program, but I've found from asking around that most of the parents aren't aware of it. When I asked one highly involved parent how the prep was going, she didn't even know about it. She thought her kid should be doing it, but didn't think he actually was since she didn't know anything about it. Most parents trust the local guidance counselor (the same one who sneered at me asking if I could have my DD take the PSAT locally - saying there wouldn't be a point since homeschoolers don't go to college) to give them all the info they will need. Only once you have been burned by her do you know to do your own homework. But, some of it really does rest on the kids to bring info home!

[Guest]

...(the same one who sneered at me asking if I could have my DD take the PSAT locally - saying there wouldn't be a point since homeschoolers don't go to college)...

Omg! LOL!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

But the wealth thing is just not true. Take for example an SAT-like test which is the sole basis of admission into specialized high schools in NYC. There's huge controversy every year because large numbers of Asian kids are represented in those that make the cut off. This is pure merit. This does not correlate with wealth. Article in NY times a few year back about kid whose parents owned a laundrymat and he used library books while working all summer to make it.

Maybe "how to take the SAT as a rich kid" is a more politically correct thing to say that "how to play the game like an immigrant"?

 

I would agree with the idea that high SAT scores and academic success are not restricted to the wealthy.  Isn't that the point that the author is making?

 

Another cultural difference between the author and his classmates at the camp was that he was from Michigan.  Some of the posters here on the board from Michigan (and other states like Missouri or Pennsylvania) have often posted about the disconnect they have when talking about college with local families.  Many families don't look beyond their local state school (or consider applying to another school in the football conference as going far away to college).  It is very possible that a student in many parts of the US have no idea that there are test-required public schools or that they can be considered something desirable.  

[daijobu]

To those who don't get this article, here's the first comment from Blonde Guy (emphases are mine):

 

"I was a high school student from a place, and a family, that didn't value education.  When my parents prevented my older sister, top student in her class from even applying to college, I enlisted all the help I could get.  I couldn't afford, and wouldn't have known about, any special classes, but the book Hernandez refers to was in the library.  I fought with my parents to take college prep courses, fought again to get them to do the financial forms I had to have to get scholarships.  I made it out.  ... And I got weekly letters from my parents saying that I was wasting their money and my time." 

 

I find that it's the new immigrant families who know more about competitive college admissions than native-born Americans.  It's like they all know before they even arrive about the AMCs and ISEF.  

[madteaparty]

I would agree with the idea that high SAT scores and academic success are not restricted to the wealthy. Isn't that the point that the author is making?

 

Another cultural difference between the author and his classmates at the camp was that he was from Michigan. Some of the posters here on the board from Michigan (and other states like Missouri or Pennsylvania) have often posted about the disconnect they have when talking about college with local families. Many families don't look beyond their local state school (or consider applying to another school in the football conference as going far away to college). It is very possible that a student in many parts of the US have no idea that there are test-required public schools or that they can be considered something desirable.

I think the point of this is that a bunch of grown women went for the NYTimes click bait newsflash of SAT prep books being available at your local library.

(Off to correct this nonsense the rest of my day :))

[Crimson Wife]

 

Test prep companies and courses were around then, but there was sort of almost a stigma to them, like they were for underachievers, because the SAT was supposed to be an aptitude test and at that time, there was some correlation with IQ. 

 

Yes, this. Princeton Review or Kaplan back when I was in high school was for kids aiming to improve from a 950 to 1000, not from a 1400 to 1450.

[regentrude]

I find that it's the new immigrant families who know more about competitive college admissions than native-born Americans.  It's like they all know before they even arrive about the AMCs and ISEF.  

 

Part of this likely has to do with the fact that immigrants are self selected. It takes a lot of drive, ambition and determination to leave one's native country behind and emigrate to a country with a different culture and language for the opportunities it provides. People who leave their families and culture behind for this will do everything to make sure they, or at least their children, succeed, so that the sacrifice was worth it.

[...................]

OK, I get what you are saying. Then the title is misleading, since it has nothing to do with being rich, but with having educated parents. Which is absolutely not the same thing.

 

 

In certain places where I grew up having two parents, a well kept two story house in a slightly nicer neighborhood and two cars, name brand clothes, (basically middle class) meant "rich" ...

 

aka kids who probably did come from well educated parents...

 

But anyway, no it is not common sense.  I was a stellar student, top ten in my class, met regularly with a really caring, committed guidance counselor, drove myself crazy doing anything anyone would tell me would get me into a good college, and scholarships, (NHS, vice president of student council, varsity athlete, Spanish Club, School Newspaper writer, school play, school choir, write essays to get into college) NO ONE EVER told me, and it never occurred to me, to study for the SAT.  I thought, that it was based on sheer intelligence and what you had already learned.  I distinctly remember having the impression that you COULDN'T study for it.  I never knew there were study books.  OUr local library was a long enough drive away that it was kind of a big deal for my mom to get me there and when I would ask, she would drop me off for three hours so she could get other stuff done before coming back....so...guess how often I got there.  Maybe twice a year.  I was NOT lazy, and I did not know that 530 SAT Math (my english was a solid 730) would have made the difference between getting into NYU and possibly getting scholarships.  

 

My mom valued education and I earned a scholarship to get to go to that private high school.  (My stepdad did not and to this day does not truly value university educaiton and although he loves me with a truly loving sacrificial love, he was not really into paying for my private high school. He felt the (failing, broken down, tiny, culturally not so good, drug problem) local school was fine. )

 

I am telling you this guy writing this article is CORRECT- just like him, many many many kids just may not know they CAN and should study for the SAT :) 

[regentrude]

Just wanted to mention, because it fits, that my DD runs a program at her university that offers free ACT and SAT prep courses of ten weeks length to local high school students. They serve 200-300 students each quarter, many of them from disadvantaged and underserved neighborhoods. For some, even buying the prep book is a hardship - but these kids have parents who sign them up and arrange for transportation. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by regentrude

[MinivanMom]

Earlier this year one of our children participated in a regional academic competition. Dh was chatting with one of our neighbors (affluent neighborhood in an affluent suburb), and dh mentioned the competition. Neighbor dad says, "My kid qualified for that same competition back in middle school." He then proceeds to tell dh how horrible the competition was. He said his kid was "one of the only white kids there", that all the other kids had studied and prepared for the competition (insert scandalized tone), and that some parents were treating the academic competition as if it were sports. He said that their child never participated again. The implication was that the (primarily Asian & Indian) students there had cheated by studying, and he wouldn't want his child exposed to that intimidating environment.

 

When dh came home and told me this story, I asked whether he had told neighbor dad that our child was preparing and studying. Dh said that he didn't feel like he could, because neighbor dad made it sound like students who studied were cheating (dh is very non-confrontational like that). I just laughed, because neighbor dad and his wife have always paid for their kids (who are now older teens) to have one-on-one sports coaching so that they could make the high school Varsity teams. I thought it was funny that neighbor dad thinks extra practice and coaching are okay and expected for sports, but that studying and prepping for academic competitions is cheating.

 

And this is an affluent, college-educated couple whose kids have gone on to decent colleges. I have always regarded them as a family that greatly valued academics, but the attitude that intelligence is fixed and that studying is cheating can run really deep in American culture. 

[regentrude]

Earlier this year one of our children participated in a regional academic competition. Dh was chatting with one of our neighbors (affluent neighborhood in an affluent suburb), and dh mentioned the competition. Neighbor dad says, "My kid qualified for that same competition back in middle school." He then proceeds to tell dh how horrible the competition was. He said his kid was "one of the only white kids there", that all the other kids had studied and prepared for the competition (insert scandalized tone), and that some parents were treating the academic competition as if it were sports. He said that their child never participated again. The implication was that the (primarily Asian & Indian) students there had cheated by studying, and he wouldn't want his child exposed to that intimidating environment.

 

When dh came home and told me this story, I asked whether he had told neighbor dad that our child was preparing and studying. Dh said that he didn't feel like he could, because neighbor dad made it sound like students who studied were cheating (dh is very non-confrontational like that). I just laughed, because neighbor dad and his wife have always paid for their kids (who are now older teens) to have one-on-one sports coaching so that they could make the high school Varsity teams. I thought it was funny that neighbor dad thinks extra practice and coaching are okay and expected for sports, but that studying and prepping for academic competitions is cheating.

 

And this is an affluent, college-educated couple whose kids have gone on to decent colleges. I have always regarded them as a family that greatly valued academics, but the attitude that intelligence is fixed and that studying is cheating can run really deep in American culture. 

 

It truly boggles my mind that a large portion of the US populace considers sports a more worthy pursuit  than academics.

Not being American, I will never understand this.

[kiana]

It truly boggles my mind that a large portion of the US populace considers sports a more worthy pursuit  than academics.

Not being American, I will never understand this.

 

It's also acceptable to say that some people are better than others at athletics, and acceptable to talk about your kid's athletic ability, but not their academic ability for some reason. 

[...................]

The title should be:

 

"How I learned to Take the SAT like an Asian Kid."

 

But, since that'll make everyone mad:

 

It could also be 

 

"How I Learned to Take the SAT Like a Privileged Kid"

 

That's all he's getting at ...there are groups of people, certain demographics whom he, for the sake of writer's license, chose to call "rich" but whatever they are, they are privileged, (even if their only privilege is that they are in the know) and they understand that one should study, study, study for the SAT....and that's it's something that NOT Everyone understands!! 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Calming Tea

[Clemsondana]

I'm not sure that it's that most people value sports more than academics (I know some do) as it is that more people seem to believe that you can improve sports with practice, while academics is innate. And, as somebody who remembers being told that you couldn't study for the SAT, it never would have crossed my mind to practice. When I took the PSAT at school, they told us that it was the practice SAT. I was a national merit scholar, but I don't think that I knew that the test we took at school that day meant anything until I got the letter. We were comfortably middle class and my parents had always encouraged academics, sports, music - whatever I wanted to do - but neither had gone to a 4-year college and we had no idea that there was a system to be worked. We thought that you just applied and hoped for the best.

 

I wound up wait-listed at a few places that I might have gotten into had we known what to do, but when I got an offer for a lot of $ based on my NMS at an out-of-state place that looked like a good fit, I said yes. We didn't even visit it until spring break of my senior year, after I was already planning to attend! My husband was in a similar situation, in a totally different state. The counselors had no idea what to tell us, our families didn't know what to tell us, and we both just made the best of the opportunities that came along. We both wound up with STEM PhDs and try to help pass along bits of advice wherever we can. We are fully aware of how much more 'advantaged' our kids our, not because of family stability, encouragement, or even money (we are more comfortable than our families were, but there was always enough), but because we know so much more about how to prepare and what is expected. I don't even know where our families would have gone to get the information - not the schools, and there was no internet in those days.

[RootAnn]

It truly boggles my mind that a large portion of the US populace considers sports a more worthy pursuit  than academics.

Not being American, I will never understand this.

 

I'm American-born & I don't understand it. I live in a sports-is-king town in a sports (football)-is-king state and I have in-laws who live this mantra for their kids. I don't get it at all.

[Lale]

I went to one of the top high schools in my state and was in the top 10% of my class, and I had NO idea that you could actually study and prepare for ACT and SAT. Like previous posters, I assumed that these test scores couldn't really be improved, at least not by enough to really matter. I took the first scholarship that came my way and assumed that was as good as it was going to get. I also had parents who placed a huge value on my studies and had a lot of expectations about where I was going to go to school and what I was going to study. Nobody counseled or advised me to keep pushing to see what else was out there, even my parents. And it kills me, because knowing what I know now, I was so, so close to getting more scholarships and admission to more selective schools.  I have often wondered, "What if?" After reading everyone's posts, it is strangely comforting that I am not the only one out there who just didn't know. 

 

[Carrie12345]

It is not even so much "things rich kids do" as "things from families with cultural capital do". If you are from that sort of family, it is mind-bogglingly obvious.

 

If nobody you know has ever gone to any college other than possibly a local state U or CC for which they paid with loans and got admitted with their average SAT/ACT from their first attempt (or especially if nobody you know has ever gone to any college at all), it is a foreign concept. 

 

I'd go further and say CURRENT cultural capital/awareness is necessary.

 

I went to a private college. With a scholarship based on my (non-Merit-Finalist) SATs.  I wasn't pushed or even heavily encouraged to study for them.  I wasn't even told to get a good night's sleep and eat a healthy breakfast, lol.  It was just a test I was given.

 

The whole cut-throat aspect is very new to me.  I'll support whatever resources they want within my budget, but I haven't been able to get my head into the frenzy.

 

My oldest only ever took the PSAT as a 9th grader.

[Bluegoat]

It is mind boggling to me.

I mean, I grew up in a foreign country and never even heard of the existence of these tests (let alone took any standardized test, ever) until a few years ago. Where I am from, people get into university by passing their high school finals of the college prep high school.

 

But once you know there are tests, don't you read up a little and figure out what they are used for?

Or look up the local college's website and realize, oh, they want such-and-such a score, and take it from there?

Well, I think actually the parents are thinking that school is where you learn what you need to know to take the test for university.

 

In a way, the idea that public education on a university track doesn't include that is really strange. 

[regentrude]

I understand how in the generation when the posters here were students everything relied on parents and counselors passing on information. What they did not know, kids could not know either.

 

But I see a huge shift nowadays because with the internet, this information is at everybody's fingertips. Google the college, you'll find admissions requirements that mention the ACT/SAT. If you don't know what those are, google ACT. 

In this respect, the playing field has become a lot more level, because kids no longer have to be at the mercy of their parents' expertise.

 

Seeing that young people google all manner of absurd and irrelevant things, one would think they could google this?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One issue is that for a student to study to raise their PSAT, they have to be thinking about it before fall of junior year. That may mean taking a practice PSAT sometime sophomore year. For many students, college feels really far off at that point.

 

Fwiw, the homeschool high school timeline that Lori has in the pinned posts at the top of the board can be a big help.

 

If you start by thinking you may want to have strong scores in hand by early action deadlines in Oct senior year and start working backwards, you may find that sophomore or early junior year is not too early for thinking about testing.

[Bluegoat]

Earlier this year one of our children participated in a regional academic competition. Dh was chatting with one of our neighbors (affluent neighborhood in an affluent suburb), and dh mentioned the competition. Neighbor dad says, "My kid qualified for that same competition back in middle school." He then proceeds to tell dh how horrible the competition was. He said his kid was "one of the only white kids there", that all the other kids had studied and prepared for the competition (insert scandalized tone), and that some parents were treating the academic competition as if it were sports. He said that their child never participated again. The implication was that the (primarily Asian & Indian) students there had cheated by studying, and he wouldn't want his child exposed to that intimidating environment.

 

When dh came home and told me this story, I asked whether he had told neighbor dad that our child was preparing and studying. Dh said that he didn't feel like he could, because neighbor dad made it sound like students who studied were cheating (dh is very non-confrontational like that). I just laughed, because neighbor dad and his wife have always paid for their kids (who are now older teens) to have one-on-one sports coaching so that they could make the high school Varsity teams. I thought it was funny that neighbor dad thinks extra practice and coaching are okay and expected for sports, but that studying and prepping for academic competitions is cheating.

 

And this is an affluent, college-educated couple whose kids have gone on to decent colleges. I have always regarded them as a family that greatly valued academics, but the attitude that intelligence is fixed and that studying is cheating can run really deep in American culture. 

 

 

It truly boggles my mind that a large portion of the US populace considers sports a more worthy pursuit  than academics.

Not being American, I will never understand this.

 

I wonder though, if it isn't more that they don't feel that education ought to be competitive.  That's a bit different than not valuing it, or thinking intelligence is fixed.

 

Scoring well on a test isn't the same as being educated.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Btw the SAT and PSAT were heavily revised in 2015-16. The current test is different than in years past and very different than what I took in the 1980's.

 

I make my kids take practice tests so they are not surprised by format or how questions are phrased. I'm a similar way their swim coaches used to have them practice race starts from a starting block so they weren't scared by something new on race day.

[justasque]

:iagree: I guess it's very easy for people who are active on a homeschool board to forget that others lack their same level of knowledge.  I was the first person on either side of the family to go to college.  Now my parents-especially my dad-were incredibly supportive of me, but you don't know what you don't know.  It wasn't until I participated on these boards many (many) years later that I realized the missed potential of not following up on that "congratulations, you are a National Merit Semi-Finalist" letter.  That was long before the internet, so there was no looking up the information.  (And even now, some of us live in flyover country where internet is a luxury that many people simply don't have.)  Looking back, I can't help but wonder where the heck my guidance counselor was; one would assume that something like that would have been on her radar, but apparently not.

 

It wasn't until my ds was a NMSF that I realized the missed potential of my own NMSF letter.  Immigrant parents, who were not familiar with the finer details of the American system of higher education, combined with a working-class neighborhood where most other families weren't either, and a school district made up of teachers and guidance counselors who came from the same neighborhood culture and local state colleges.

 

I went to public high school.  I had never heard of anyone studying for the SAT.  Ever.  I took it after I had been celebrating at a cast party until 1 a.m. (or something like that).  My parents didn't think it was a big deal.

 

Same, right down to the cast party the night before.

 

But the wealth thing is just not true. Take for example an SAT-like test which is the sole basis of admission into specialized high schools in NYC. There's huge controversy every year because large numbers of Asian kids are represented in those that make the cut off. This is pure merit. This does not correlate with wealth. Article in NY times a few year back about kid whose parents owned a laundrymat and he used library books while working all summer to make it.

Maybe "how to take the SAT as a rich kid" is a more politically correct thing to say that "how to play the game like an immigrant"?

 

"Rich kids" doesn't need to literally mean "financially well-off".  There are kids at every income level with savvy parents.  But you don't know what you don't know.  And I have seen many, many otherwise-good parents who largely leave college selection and the entire application process for the child to navigate themselves.  Many parents tend to rely on their peers in the local community for information - the parents they sit next to at their kids' soccer games or dance rehearsals.  If no one in their local community is particularly savvy about this stuff, then the info doesn't get introduced to the group.  The fewer kids who are aiming at competitive schools, the less useful info there is floating around in these groups.  I am often in groups of local parents discussing this stuff, but often find that I have way more information than I can convey in a brief conversation.  

[teachermom2834]

It is in most cases people just don't know what they don't know. So they don't know there is something they need to figure out. They figure the school will tell them.

 

I live in a very blue collar area. Most parents did not go to college themselves. I never understood the difficulty being first generation college student until I saw it. Well meaning parents that just don't know. Well meaning parents that don't realize that years of high honor roll will not translate into Ivy League acceptances and full scholarships. They have seen their child get straight As (at schools with very low standards) and think that translates into being a top student nationally. Our three local high schools have averages ACT scores or 17, 18, and 19. So if your kid gets a 26 that is stellar. They just don't know.

 

We moved here when oldest was a senior. He had a 31 on the ACT. When someone asked what ds had and he told him, the kid laughed at him and called him a liar and said it didn't even go that high.

 

They just don't know what they don't know. If they get a 27 ACT and it is the highest ever at the school that should be a full ride, right?

 

It is hard.

[8filltheheart]

I spoke earlier today to the woman who coordinated my workshop. She told me that there were 2 principals and guidance counselor there. She said they were floored by the information that they didn't possess and want me to come back and do it again. They want to make attendance mandatory for their parents. (At one point I came out and said, "Do not trust your GC. You need to take on that role for your children." Yikes!! So glad I didn't know who was in my audience! I hate public speaking and I would have been a basket case!)

[Guest]

It truly boggles my mind that a large portion of the US populace considers sports a more worthy pursuit  than academics.

Not being American, I will never understand this.

 

I'm American and I don't understand it either. I think it's stupid. It fascinates me how much money people will pour into children's athletics thinking their kids will have a scholarship. Odds are much higher they'll have a burned out kid who quits right around their junior year in high school and never touches the sport again. There was an article in WSJ (I think) a year or two ago that talked about how much better off the average college student would be if their parents had invested every dollar spent on "club" level sports and instead invested it in a fund for college since most high school athletes, at best, see small scholarships that come no where near full ride. Maybe it's because I live in the land of Friday Night Lights, but expectations and realities don't seem connected for a lot of people. 

 

Not to say that I don't support kids doing something they enjoy. But I think the majority of kids can enjoy things just fine in a non-formal, non team traveling capacity.........

[Reefgazer]

Oh, I agree with this part, but the reverse is not true, in my personal experience. Very few who are rich are uneducated; again, my personal observation based on where I have lived (east coast).

No, absolutely not. Not all college educated people (or even people with graduate degrees) are rich - very far from it.

[Reefgazer]

I agree with you on this, and I'll be politically incorrect enough to say that certain demographics don't put a priority on the hard work necessary to reach for a top notch school. I don't think wealth is a cause of achievement; I think it is a side effect of an achievement culture for established, native Americans. But *within the typical American demographic*, wealth correlates with achievement. I would guess this is because wealthy parents are driven enough to achieve themselves, so they are able to earn a good living, and they pass this culture down to their kids. That doesn't negate the fact that uneducated parents are just not plugged into the grapevine of common knowledge about how to teach their kids to position themselves for success. So those kids have an uphill climb to learn the ropes that well off kids absorb through their everyday family conversations. It puts those kids at a disadvantage when it comes to college admission time.

 

Probably. Because blaming things on wealth is easy. Otherwise, one would have to examine why certain immigrant groups can produce a culture of achievement and excellence that is missing in certain domestic demographics... and that will very quickly veer into non-politically correct territory.

This is much more about culture than about wealth.

Edited April 12, 2017 by reefgazer

[Reefgazer]

This is key - not knowing you could study or should study for the SAT test during high school. It was drummed into me that you couldn't study for the SAT; teachers and guidance counselors told us this. They didn't, however, mention that we could prep for it, which is subtly different. It is likely that foreign born students do not absorb this "can't study for the SAT" message.

The title should be:

 

"How I learned to Take the SAT like an Asian Kid."

 

But, since that'll make everyone mad:

 

It could also be

 

"How I Learned to Take the SAT Like a Privileged Kid"

 

That's all he's getting at ...there are groups of people, certain demographics whom he, for the sake of writer's license, chose to call "rich" but whatever they are, they are privileged, (even if their only privilege is that they are in the know) and they understand that one should study, study, study for the SAT....and that's it's something that NOT Everyone understands!!

Edited April 12, 2017 by reefgazer

[Arcadia]

It is likely that foreign born students do not absorb this "can't study for the SAT" message.

American born Asian parents in my area do know to prep for SAT when they were in public high school to get to the selective colleges. My neighbor told me she didn't prep as she was aiming for a non selective commuter state university but would have prep for UCB. She is in her 30s.

 

Quoted from a Forbes article with interviews of three Asian Indians who were accepted into US colleges (Stanford, Columbia, UMich) and are studying there. Info that many public school kids may not know. (ETA: scroll to the bottom of the article for the interviews)

 

"The U.S. application process will require painstaking rigor and self-introspection that preferably includes being ahead on standardized testing, earmarking mentors well in advance to help reflect on your persona for letters of recommendation and preparing a realistic yet well researched college list that exemplifies a balance between ambition and existing academic background.

 

With an ever-growing number of Indian students applying to the U.S. , the resources available for guidance have vastly increased over the last for years. I would urge every Indian student applying to make use of the immense resources available that once were virtually non-existent."

 

"For students applying to the U.S. it is extremely important to keep track of deadlines. Many state universities have different deadlines for honors programs and scholarships. When I was applying, I forgot about a deadline for a University and had to write a whole application in less than 24 hours. This resulted in a lot of stress that could have been avoided by staying organized."

 

"This is also around the time that I started thinking about how I wanted to present myself to my dream universities. It is never too early to start thinking about your profile because U.S. colleges have holistic admissions processes. They want to see that your interests are genuine and align with the University. Thinking about profiles early on and doing relevant extra curriculars can help differentiate you as an applicant."

 

"Another thing I wish I knew beforehand is how important AP credits were. I had the opportunity to sit for the APs but did not since I never knew their relevance. Most students in India can do well in these tests since they learn most of it in high school. This would really help them ease the college transition process as it reduces the stress of classes to a certain extent."

Link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/mattsymonds/2017/02/01/did-a-place-at-an-ivy-league-college-just-get-easier-for-indian-applicants/amp/

Edited April 12, 2017 by Arcadia

[wapiti]

As far as being told that prep wouldn't help, that may have had a small grain of truth decades ago when the SAT was an ability test to a larger degree.  Today, the SAT bills itself as an achievement test and accordingly may be more suited for prep.

 

I was a slacker, yet I managed to do a few practice tests in a large book back in the old days (mid 80s) and had a pretty good result.  If I had to do it all over again, I definitely would have prepped more even for a small increase.

Edited April 12, 2017 by wapiti

[regentrude]

. She told me that there were 2 principals and guidance counselor there. She said they were floored by the information that they didn't possess and want me to come back and do it again.

 

That is crazy.

[Arcadia]

As far as being told that prep wouldn't help, that may have had a small grain of truth decades ago when the SAT was an ability test to a larger degree.

I have ex-classmates in Asia who applied to Harvard, MIT, Yale as well as Oxford, Cambridge, LSE in 1990/91 and they did prep for SAT using SAT, GMAT and LSAT books in the British Council library.

 

The old SAT math was definitely worth prepping for a foreigner to make sure all "holes" are covered and to understand the nuances in the language, and the analogies section of the old SAT English can be studied.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Arcadia

[8filltheheart]

That is crazy.

I agree. I had about 40 slides in my PP and talked non-stop for 2 hrs, so I am not sure what it was specifically that was their knowledge deficit. I talked about everything from ED/SCEA/EA/RD to FAFSA/CSS to common data sets to ECs and everything else in between. But, there was absolutely nothing I talked about that isn't common knowledge if you have spent any time researching the process.