Young Adults Loving at Home- Chores

[eternalsummer]

In my (limited to one example) experience, the only thing that made any difference was the threat (and follow through) of cutting off internet access completely.  Action was taken by the previously non-active within a couple of days.

[Bluegoat]

Well, FWIW, I have seen a person with mental illness seek treatment after others stopped enabling them in other ways.  And they weren't going to get better with things carrying on as they were.  So I do think that can happen. 

[shawthorne44]

If it were me, I'd stop everything within my power related to this child.  So, I'd cancel the cell phone if I was paying for it.  Turn off the internet for the hours when I wasn't using it.  Change the wi-fi password.   Suspend cable TV.   

 

Although, really, you can't stop the in-laws from enabling.   So, I'd just let them happen and make sure everyone knows there will be no moving back in.  

[Joules]

In my (limited to one example) experience, the only thing that made any difference was the threat (and follow through) of cutting off internet access completely.  Action was taken by the previously non-active within a couple of days.

 

In my experience with relative's child, it took about 24 hours for the grandparents to provide a cell phone with data service, thus eliminating the ability to use that threat, because that was cruel and unusual punishment (and unsafe to not have phone.)  I expect that might happen here.

[shawthorne44]

In my experience with relative's child, it took about 24 hours for the grandparents to provide a cell phone with data service, thus eliminating the ability to use that threat, because that was cruel and unusual punishment (and unsafe to not have phone.)  I expect that might happen here.

 

Wow, yeah, with people like the in-laws that does seem likely.

[Catwoman]

The thing is, it sounds from the description as if the person may well be ill. You can no more punish a person with depression into taking action than you can punish a two year old into crossing the road safely.

 

If the brain isn't able then it can't receive the signals that punishment seeks to send. And throwing someone out who is sick is punishment.

 

This has not been an easy lesson for me to learn, but doing so has helped me to cope, as well as helping the people in my life who have depression.

 

I would concentrate all my forces on the relationship and on getting the person treatment. Household chores will be accomplished, in all likelihood, if/when the person is well.

I agree that if this young person has mental health issues, she won't respond to punishment in the way any of us might hope.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that this person isn't simply a master at manipulating her family members and playing one against the other to get her way, but let's say she's mentally ill.

 

How long should X have to be responsible for this young person? How long should she put her own life on hold so she can care for a person who refuses to get any help? How long should she wait on an able-bodied adult hand and foot?

 

X has more than enough on her plate without having to take care of a lazy adult. Her own son has very serious medical issues. Should she be ignoring his needs in order to take care of this adult? Should she be exhausted every day from all of the stress this person is causing in her household?

 

I hope my post isn't coming across as snarky; under many circumstances I would absolutely agree with you. I am really just thinking out loud. I'm trying to figure out whether or not X has any real responsibility for this adult's well-being. Her dh is the father, but he's not the one stuck with all of the day-to-day stress and responsibility; X is, and I don't think that's fair. That's why I keep suggesting that X should insist that the girl move in with her mother or let the grandparents pay for an apartment. Let them get angry and think X is a terrible person. Who cares what they think?

 

I'm afraid that if X doesn't act quickly, she will never get that adult out of her house. It has already been over a year, with no changes and no improvements, so I think X has given the adult more than enough time to seek treatment or get a job, or even help out around the house. At this point, the adult is behaving like an entitled, spoiled brat, and everyone is letting her get away with it.

 

I guess I'm saying that ultimately it doesn't even matter if it's mental illness or obnoxious entitlement; X is at the end of her rope and she needs a break from this person. There are other family members who will provide for her, so X wouldn't be sending her out into the streets to live in a cardboard box. It's time to let those other family members step up and take responsibility for this person.

 

I'm very worried about X. She is always such a strong person, but we all have our limits, and I also hate to think of how the household stress is affecting her son, because he sounds like such a great kid.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Catwoman

[Seasider]

I'm not sure if I should make this a spin off, but if the adult child does have a mental illness And refuses to get treatment, does that mean that she should let the Girl live at home forever with no responsibilities or expectations?

 

My 22yr old has some issues and may never be fully out of my house, but she does have a job and is willing to do some chores around the house. If she refused to contribute in any way, I would make her leave, and yes, that might mean moving in with her grandparents. I tell my kids that I am not working at this job (2 jobs actually) that I don't really like so that you can sit around and do nothing. If anyone is going to sit around and do nothing, it is going to be me.

It's not just a question of who's earned the privilege of sitting around after putting in years of work. The real question is, what happens when parents die and the child is suddenly without support and has no skills for Independent living (starting with figuring out how to liquidate an estate)?

[Χά�ων]

I don't know the answer. Husband and I did do most of the work until my loved ones had treatment, and do it again when they have a relapse. I work full time and have others to care for too.

 

The way I rationalise it: if I had a child who had a chronic physical illness and who was unable to access treatment for some reason, I'd look after him without question.

 

ETA I don't have to worry about aging out of insurance though

 

ETA too. I do pay for a weekly cleaner. That's part of what my wages are for.

In my state, physical and some developmental disability can qualify for in home assistance (including assistance with household chores). Sadly, due to budget cuts and county lines it is a several years waiting lists.

 

I will have to do a lot of thinking about paying someone to come in and clean. It is not something I am eager to do, I prefer not to pay for something I feel I should be able to do myself.

 

I will see if the private insurance has an option for in home services. It would be out of my hands while they live with us.

[Laura Corin]

In my state, physical and some developmental disability can qualify for in home assistance (including assistance with household chores). Sadly, due to budget cuts and county lines it is a several years waiting lists.

 

I will have to do a lot of thinking about paying someone to come in and clean. It is not something I am eager to do, I prefer not to pay for something I feel I should be able to do myself.

 

I will see if the private insurance has an option for in home services. It would be out of my hands while they live with us.

I hope this works out so that the pressure on you reduces a bit.

[Χά�ων]

My child is affected by what is happening.

[Joules]

My child is affected by what is happening.

 

Mine was too  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Χά�ων]

I hope this works out so that the pressure on you reduces a bit.

Thanks. I had not thought about inhome services through private insurance prior to now. Hopefully it is a covered service and SC will cooperate in getting it.

 

I had attempting to seek help from the social worker attached to the clinic but as someone not authorized to commmunicate with them I am limited in what I am able to accomplish.

[maize]

I will have to do a lot of thinking about paying someone to come in and clean. It is not something I am eager to do, I prefer not to pay for something I feel I should be able to do myself.

 

 

The trouble is that it is easy to think "I should be able to do x...and y...and z...and q...and r...and..." when the reality is that yes any one of those is something we could do, and certain combinations are something we can do...but ALL of the them piled up together we cannot do.

 

Cleaning is an easy one for me to seek help in because I really do not enjoy, am not good at staying in top of it, and it is not a thing that I can do better than hired help. Caring for my children I can do better than outside help-- I know them better and love them more. I don't love my kitchen :tongue_smilie: I don't need to feel more obligated to clean the kitchen than I do to sew my own clothes or butcher my own meat.

 

I do recognize all too well that financial realities limit what most of us can outsource.

Edited April 9, 2017 by maize

[amy g.]

I don't know if this is applicable, but when my oldest was being tested (pre ACA) they urged me to apply for disability for her so that we could keep her on our insurance.

 

We didn't do that, but may revisit it when she gets closer to 26.

 

It would be worth looking into.

[Catwoman]

My child is affected by what is happening.

 

That was my biggest worry. I know how much you love your son, and it must be so painful for you to see him being affected by this. :grouphug:

[Χά�ων]

I don't know if this is applicable, but when my oldest was being tested (pre ACA) they urged me to apply for disability for her so that we could keep her on our insurance.

 

We didn't do that, but may revisit it when she gets closer to 26.

 

It would be worth looking into.

It is possible at DH's current company, but his next career move means he will have to change employers and get different insurance so that may not be an option unless he stalls his career. Additionally, stepchild will lose insurance when DH retires even if he stalls his career and stays with his current employer.

[TechWife]

I'm not sure if I should make this a spin off, but if the adult child does have a mental illness And refuses to get treatment, does that mean that she should let the Girl live at home forever with no responsibilities or expectations?

 

My 22yr old has some issues and may never be fully out of my house, but she does have a job and is willing to do some chores around the house. If she refused to contribute in any way, I would make her leave, and yes, that might mean moving in with her grandparents. I tell my kids that I am not working at this job (2 jobs actually) that I don't really like so that you can sit around and do nothing. If anyone is going to sit around and do nothing, it is going to be me.

 

 

 As long as the adult with mental illness isn't harming anyone in the family through physical or emotional abuse, I think so. However, the parents should be involved in ongoing counseling in order to help them cope with a chronically ill dependent, enhance communication and to learn to set appropriate and good boundaries. 

 

I view mental illness as a chronic, potentially debilitating illness. It reminds me of other illnesses where there are periods of health and periods of illness, such as lupus. Many people refuse treatment for physical illnesses, and mental health is at it's core a physical illness because it concerns brain function. If your daughter became debilitated to the point where she could not work, would you kick her out, knowing that it was actually a brain malfunction that was causing her debilitation? What if, hypothetically,  she had a stroke an a brain malfunction was making it impossible for her to work, even though she regained physical health? Would  you kick her out then? If not, what do you think the difference is between being debilitated by a mental illness, such as depression, and being debilitated by a stroke? 

[Χά�ων]

As long as the adult with mental illness isn't harming anyone in the family through physical or emotional abuse, I think so. However, the parents should be involved in ongoing counseling in order to help them cope with a chronically ill dependent, enhance communication and to learn to set appropriate and good boundaries.

 

I view mental illness as a chronic, potentially debilitating illness. It reminds me of other illnesses where there are periods of health and periods of illness, such as lupus. Many people refuse treatment for physical illnesses, and mental health is at it's core a physical illness because it concerns brain function. If your daughter became debilitated to the point where she could not work, would you kick her out, knowing that it was actually a brain malfunction that was causing her debilitation? What if, hypothetically, she had a stroke an a brain malfunction was making it impossible for her to work, even though she regained physical health? Would you kick her out then? If not, what do you think the difference is between being debilitated by a mental illness, such as depression, and being debilitated by a stroke?

Hmm I would expect someone who had a stroke to undergo Physical and Occupational therapy to improve function. I would expect that as function improved, that as much as they are able, they pursue vocational training for a new career, or to seek accomadations in their old job.

 

As a parent of a child with a chronic health issues, I expect him to be active in his physical therapy, including doing exercises at home and complying with medical treatment plans and being a active participate (as age appropriate) in his care.

[TechWife]

It's not just a question of who's earned the privilege of sitting around after putting in years of work. The real question is, what happens when parents die and the child is suddenly without support and has no skills for Independent living (starting with figuring out how to liquidate an estate)?

 

That's why writing a will, choosing an appropriate executor and possibly setting up a trust with one or more trustees is important. Someone who cannot live independently doesn't need to be in charge of an estate. 

[TechWife]

I had attempting to seek help from the social worker attached to the clinic but as someone not authorized to commmunicate with them I am limited in what I am able to accomplish.

 

Have a serious talk with your husband's daughter and let her know how serious the matter is that her health care providers be able to talk to you. She would need to sign a HIPPA release with her providers. You can also ask her to do financial and healthcare power of attorney forms for you so that you can take care of business for her. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by TechWife

[maize]

Hmm I would expect someone who had a stroke to undergo Physical and Occupational therapy to improve function. I would expect that as function improved, that as much as they are able, they pursue vocational training for a new career, or to seek accomadations in their old job.

 

As a parent of a child with a chronic health issues, I expect him to be active in his physical therapy, including doing exercises at home and complying with medical treatment plans and being a active participate (as age appropriate) in his care.

 

I believe similar engagement in treatment should be the goal with mental illness.

 

The particular sticking point is that a person with health issues that primarily impact any organ other than the brain typically retains their reasoning and motivational capabilities and is therefore able to understand the need for and pursue treatment. Where the brain is impacted, whether by organic processes as in most mental illness or by traumatic injury or stroke or a tumor, things become much more complicated. When brains themselves are malfunctioning, our ability to make decisions, to initiate action, to stay on task, to reason through options, to see possibilities of improvement--all can become impaired.

 

So, while active engagement in treatment is absolutely the goal, it may not always be an attainable goal. At best, it usually requires lots and lots of outside scaffolding and support. A brain that is not reasoning adequately needs someone else to reason for it, a brain that lacks motivational function needs someone else providing ongoing motivation, a brain that lacks emotional regulation needs lots of outside support and buffering and retraining.

 

It can be very, very difficult and very, very complicated.

 

And none of us is superhuman. Sometimes real improvement for mental illness is just not going to happen and sometimes as caregivers we have to acknowledge where our own limits are and keep ourselves and other vulnerable people healthy even at the expense of the mentally ill person because we can't provide enough help for them to make much difference anyway.

 

I detest, despise, and hate mental illness. Really I do. I sometimes picture it in my mind as an enormous, ravening monster out to destroy lives--both of the primary victim and the secondary victims that surround them.

 

As long as my negative emotions are directed primarily towards the illness itself not the people suffering from it I figure that is OK.

Edited April 10, 2017 by maize

[TechWife]

Hmm I would expect someone who had a stroke to undergo Physical and Occupational therapy to improve function. I would expect that as function improved, that as much as they are able, they pursue vocational training for a new career, or to seek accomadations in their old job.

 

As a parent of a child with a chronic health issues, I expect him to be active in his physical therapy, including doing exercises at home and complying with medical treatment plans and being a active participate (as age appropriate) in his care.

 

Not all function can be regained through various therapies. When patients reach a plateau, insurance no longer pays for them. Additionally, say, if a person's short term memory is affected by the stroke (my mother's was), it can be impossible for them to hold down a job of any kind. Not all stroke effects are physical. In fact, my mother's stroke didn't affect her physically at all. She could speak very clearly, but she was not saying the words that she thought she was saying - communication was impossible until extensive speech therapy took place. After the stroke, we provided her with a  digital clock/calendar that had they day of the week, the date and the time because she could not remember something that simple. Additionally, she would do the same tasks many times, not remembering she had already done them (brushing her teeth, for example) and we had the same conversations over and over. There was some improvement very quickly after the stroke, but she reached a plateau and we no longer expected improvement.  Her "loop" extended from about 5 minutes to about 45-60 minutes, then she often started repeating herself. This was not dementia (which my father had) or Alzheimers - it was the direct result of a stroke. 

 

Not everyone with chronic health issues needs PT, exercises or a medical treatment plan at all times. Additionally, how would you enforce this with an adult (I think that's the issue you may be coming up against - mental health issues mean someone isn't thinking rationally are hard to manage). 

[Catwoman]

I have a quick question for those who think this young adult needs mental health evaluation and care.

 

Do you think X should be responsible for dealing with it? Do you think she should allow this person to remain living in her home indefinitely for free and have X wait on her hand and foot?

 

My feeling is that this adult has a mother and she has grandparents who have been doing a great job of enabling her poor behavior, and who seem to want to continue to do that, while blaming X for being such a terrible person. Why shouldn't the mother or the grandparents take over the responsibility for this person? Why should X be stuck with it? It sounds like this person is nothing more than a thorn in X's side. She isn't kind. She isn't helpful. She isn't cooperative.

 

X has so much on her plate already with her son's health issues. I don't think it's fair that she should have to continue to be responsible for supporting and taking care of this young adult.

[Χά�ων]

I have a quick question for those who think this young adult needs mental health evaluation and care.

 

Do you think X should be responsible for dealing with it? Do you think she should allow this person to remain living in her home indefinitely for free and have X wait on her hand and foot?

 

My feeling is that this adult has a mother and she has grandparents who have been doing a great job of enabling her poor behavior, and who seem to want to continue to do that, while blaming X for being such a terrible person. Why shouldn't the mother or the grandparents take over the responsibility for this person? Why should X be stuck with it? It sounds like this person is nothing more than a thorn in X's side. She isn't kind. She isn't helpful. She isn't cooperative.

 

X has so much on her plate already with her son's health issues. I don't think it's fair that she should have to continue to be responsible for supporting and taking care of this young adult.

Only DH or I will actually push the issue. There is a great deal of denial, passing blame, resulting in enabling of young adult by the inlaws. If it is left to the inlaws or mother nothing will happen because in their mind the problem is not with stepchild, but is [insert any reason other than laziness or mental health that will allow them to continue living in denial] Edited April 10, 2017 by Χά�ων

[Catwoman]

Only DH or I will actually push the issue. There is a great deal of denial, passing blame, resulting in enabling of young adult by the inlaws. If it is left to the inlaws or mother nothing will happen because in their mind the problem is not with stepchild, but is (insert any reason other than laziness or mental health that will allow them to continue living in denial.

Ok, but if that's the case, you could be stuck with her forever, and she still may not accept any help with her mental health issues -- assuming that's actually the problem and that she's not just an entitled, spoiled brat who will do whatever it takes to get her way.

 

Ultimately, it's all up to you and your dh. Do you really want her to live with you for years to come, knowing she is unlikely to change or to become nicer or more helpful? Is that fair to you or your son?

 

I'm worried that you're going to end up trapped and miserable.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I might be willing to lay down my entire life and risk my children's health and happiness for a needy relative whom nobody else would ever help...but only if I could have complete control.

 

No interference from sabotaging relatives.

Total access to health care information and insurance.

Latitude to hire help, make appointments, insist on counseling and therapy.

No hindrance to accessing respite care, whether in a day home situation or by hiring help.

An off ramp idea in place, for if it still doesn't work.

 

Without tools, and with sabotaging interference, I wouldn't do it because I couldn't do it.

 

My only other thought is that this young person seems to have an entire cadre of people to determine how they will live and what they're entitled to...but how many people are on your son's team? Who does he have but you? If there are not a lot of people to fight for HIM on a daily basis, and that's your job, you have to be able to do it. I am not judging your ability to manage both of them so far; I'm thinking about going forward, whether it will really work.

[Murphy101]

Neither a mental health nor a physical health issue is a valid reason to abuse other people.

 

The issue is not letting an adult continue to live at home.

The issue is not whether they should be helped with whatever difficulty they are having.

 

This issue is this adult wants to live with these people and make them miserable and she doesn't seem interested in being helped.

 

This is understandably painful for any parent to deal with. But it's my opinion one of the most important things we can model for our children is how to love people without being abused by them.

 

I would no longer pay for anything for this adult. If the grandparents are foolish enough to think they can do better, then I suspect she will move on to them and they will soon learn differently. Or maybe they will be better for her for whatever reason and then that's all good too.

 

That aside, either way, I'd pay for housekeeping service if I could afford it. The OP has enough to do, regardless of this young adult. It's not about whether the OP can do it herself. It's about freeing up time and energy for the OP to use elsewhere.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Murphy101

[Murphy101]

I might be willing to lay down my entire life and risk my children's health and happiness for a needy relative whom nobody else would ever help...but only if I could have complete control.

 

No interference from sabotaging relatives.

Total access to health care information and insurance.

Latitude to hire help, make appointments, insist on counseling and therapy.

No hindrance to accessing respite care, whether in a day home situation or by hiring help.

An off ramp idea in place, for if it still doesn't work.

 

Without tools, and with sabotaging interference, I wouldn't do it because I couldn't do it.

 

My only other thought is that this young person seems to have an entire cadre of people to determine how they will live and what they're entitled to...but how many people are on your son's team? Who does he have but you? If there are not a lot of people to fight for HIM on a daily basis, and that's your job, you have to be able to do it. I am not judging your ability to manage both of them so far; I'm thinking about going forward, whether it will really work.

Yep. Agree X100

 

I've seen too many cautiinary tales in my extended family and friends to be optimistic about it ending up good for anyone if it continues as things are. I can't remember a single one that doesn't have deep profound regret for allowing it.

[Anne in CA]

Well, FWIW, I have seen a person with mental illness seek treatment after others stopped enabling them in other ways.  And they weren't going to get better with things carrying on as they were.  So I do think that can happen. 

I am so glad you said this. I have not personally seen this, but I am glad that someone else has.

[Catwoman]

Well, FWIW, I have seen a person with mental illness seek treatment after others stopped enabling them in other ways. And they weren't going to get better with things carrying on as they were. So I do think that can happen.

I have also seen a few people who have seemed as though they were totally helpless and incapable of supporting themselves, and who lived off of the kindness of others for years. But when the gravy train finally stopped, those people were miraculously able to survive just fine on their own -- and both of them actually ended up being both hardworking and thrifty, to the shock of everyone who had seen them so happily spending other people's money in the past. They had never taken care of themselves in the past because no one ever forced them to do it.

 

So you just never know about people. It's so easy to think we can diagnose someone on an Internet forum, but in reality it's not so easy because even when you think you really know a person, sometimes you don't.

 

I have no idea what the story is with X's stepdd. I'm not even sure it matters, because my main concern is the mental and physical wellbeing of X and her son.

[scoutingmom]

The thing is, it sounds from the description as if the person may well be ill. You can no more punish a person with depression into taking action than you can punish a two year old into crossing the road safely.

 

If the brain isn't able then it can't receive the signals that punishment seeks to send. And throwing someone out who is sick is punishment.

 

This has not been an easy lesson for me to learn, but doing so has helped me to cope, as well as helping the people in my life who have depression.

 

I would concentrate all my forces on the relationship and on getting the person treatment. Household chores will be accomplished, in all likelihood, if/when the person is well.

Well I'm really not sure what other viable option there is. The person is not going to get better living a solid entitled life with no responsibilities. The money to care for this person long term is not available. There are negative effects on the family. I can't remember if mental illness was diagnosed or not. And I guess I don't see this as punishment anymore than I see a parent bird kicking their offspring of of the nest. I have lived this scenario. Btw, I also have depression, anxiety, and ocd tendencies so I know a little about mental illness.

 

It is extremely hard. It may not help them, but what they are doing also does not help. We are discussing an adult. It is time for this person to be an adult. If the mental illness, it there is one, is too much, then it should get diagnosed and treated, but that is up to the adult.

 

 

 

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[scoutingmom]

In my experience with relative's child, it took about 24 hours for the grandparents to provide a cell phone with data service, thus eliminating the ability to use that threat, because that was cruel and unusual punishment (and unsafe to not have phone.) I expect that might happen here.

Don't continue enabling just because someone else will enable when you stop.

 

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[scoutingmom]

Mine was too :grouphug: :grouphug:

And so we mine. That is why my advice might sound so harsh. I had to choose the younger kids health and welfare over the adult children.

 

Hugs

 

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