Young Adults Loving at Home- Chores

[Barb_]

I should clarify that by yelling, I mean completely lost my mind and probably looked like a stark raving lunatic. Not the standard "Mom is done do it NOW" yell. I skipped that step completely.

 

I also murdered a broom (no one saw, I was alone when the broom met it's demise).

Well, I hope you gave it a proper burial.

[umsami]

They are doing her no favors.

 

She needs to, at minimum, volunteer/work for 40 hours per week at something.  Even if it's bagging groceries.  She should do this for at least six months before even being allowed to pursue a higher education (assuming parent financed), to learn about the real world.  

 

To help her cope with the real world that is coming, a portion of that money (perhaps 25%) should be taken for rent/insurance costs.  This could be given back to her at a later date as a down payment or something or not.

 

After six months (or maybe a year), if she has more direction, she can apply for college/trade school/etc.  However, a legal document should be signed that if she does not complete her degree in X years (reasonable amount) and work in her chosen field or a similar approved field for a certain length of time, then the entirety of the amount of the college education/trade school paid for by the parents will be considered a loan, payable at $X/month, at X% interest.  Let her know that this document will be filed with the county or whomever.

 

Tough love now is far better than tough love in 30 years.  Trust me, I know.  This is my brother.  He's 52 now, still supported by my parents.  He always has a sob story for my Mom.  She's paid for businesses (plural), vocational schools (yes, plural), and homes for him.  Did not help at all.  

 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by umsami

[Χά�ων]

No, you may be mad, but this is reasonable. I think you worry too much. Were you perhaps raised by one or two dysfunctional parents? That can make you overly worried that reasonable boundaries are vindictive.

Prior to injury they were both functional. Afterwards... While not abusive, I am learning how much of an impact on me the changes in that parent had on me. Brain injury's suck.

[Χά�ων]

Well, I hope you gave it a proper burial.

Yep. And I cried many tears because new brooms are expensive these days!!!

[Barb_]

Prior to injury they were both functional. Afterwards... While not abusive, I am learning how much of an impact on me the changes in that parent had on me. Brain injury's suck.

:grouphug:

 

That's what your posts in this thread sound like to me.

[Catwoman]

Is it even possible to sue for that reason????

We do not claim them as a dependent and haven't for 5 years or so. The only reason they have health insurance through DH is he legally can keep her on the health insurance.

I have no idea, but it might be something to check on, just in case. This person sounds very manipulative and vindictive, and you don't want any surprises.

[Seasider]

This is an untenable situation.

 

I think Catwoman's advice was spot-on - help her pack for her new apartment that the in-laws or her mom will provide.

 

I would add, that I would strongly encourage your dh to sit down with his daughter beforehand and letting her know that he hopes she will become a functioning adult in the future, able to support herself and provide herself with things that adults typically provide for themselves, including the health insurance she will need, and that is why he cannot continue to enable her childlike behavior.

 

She will, of course, ignore this, but he will have the comfort of knowing that she has been informed...

 

Let her go - having her in your home isn't good for anybody

 

Anne.

I agree. Speak your piece then let them go. You will have done everything you can. It is way beyond determining what chores should be reasonably expected. It's time to remove a crutch. S/he may limp over to a new one, but there's nothing you can do about that. One day s/he will run out of crutches and it won't be your fault. Edited April 8, 2017 by Seasider

[Katy]

If you turn off the internet, or at least turn off the cell phone and change your wifi password, what will happen?  A meltdown?  A tantrum?  Moving out?  Do it.  Force this to come to a head - where either they are out of your house OR some sort of threats are made (by the adult child, not you).  When they make threats, call the police.  Yep, I'm serious.  Frankly giving up and willing oneself to die sound like severe, suicidal depression to me.  And I would probably have this adult child committed to a 72 hour psych hold.  On the other hand, I have a nursing background and live in a state where it is somewhat easy to make that happen.  In the best case scenario, this "kid" gets good help.  In the worst, the in laws turn on you and the kid becomes their problem.  Either way you get distance.

 

A less nuclear option is to find a cognitive behavioral therapist and insist on twice weekly therapy for 6 weeks or leaving the house (or turning off internet, if DH won't go for that).  Go to the first session and speak with the therapist about it all - giving up on life bordering on suicide (and yes, use that word!), social media addiction, refusal to do anything but be a burden on others, the death that will happen when getting kicked off health insurance.

[Guest]

If you turn off the internet, or at least turn off the cell phone and change your wifi password, what will happen? A meltdown? A tantrum? Moving out? Do it. Force this to come to a head - where either they are out of your house OR some sort of threats are made (by the adult child, not you). When they make threats, call the police. Yep, I'm serious. Frankly giving up and willing oneself to die sound like severe, suicidal depression to me. And I would probably have this adult child committed to a 72 hour psych hold. On the other hand, I have a nursing background and live in a state where it is somewhat easy to make that happen. In the best case scenario, this "kid" gets good help. In the worst, the in laws turn on you and the kid becomes their problem. Either way you get distance.

 

A less nuclear option is to find a cognitive behavioral therapist and insist on twice weekly therapy for 6 weeks or leaving the house (or turning off internet, if DH won't go for that). Go to the first session and speak with the therapist about it all - giving up on life bordering on suicide (and yes, use that word!), social media addiction, refusal to do anything but be a burden on others, the death that will happen when getting kicked off health insurance.

These are really good ideas. I'm sorry you're in such a tough position, it's really crazy and you're not overreacting in the slightest to be upset and fed up.

[KungFuPanda]

Well, I am not funtioning as I need to as a result of the stress so I am not sure I am doing better.

 

As for the other adults? There are deep seated dysfunctions in play. For whatever reason, they cannot let go and let a young adult live or experience consequenses. They view that as causing them great harm. I do not get it.

I'm not sure you can enable the behavior to prevent others from enabling it more. The results are the same. This adult child seems to have an entire network of people willing to 'keep' them. I think I'd tell them to work full time, or work part-time for you (basic maid service plus cooking one meal a day), or move on to their next victim. This young person HAS found a way to make a living. They're getting by because everyone else blinks first. You've got to admit it's working and they're living pretty good for the amount of effort expended.

[KungFuPanda]

Have you considered making them pay for their own phone, service plan, and wifi?

 

Could you drag them to family therapy?

[eternalsummer]

It is done. Crappily. And the next time I need to find something I spend 15 minutes hunting it down.

 

If I say, "Joe, please empty the dishwasher every night." It will be done crappily at most three times in a row, then not again until asked to empty it every night.

 

It is done so poorly that it looks to be deliberate. Think of the worst way you could put away dishes and that is what you have. Maybe a bit worse.

 

 

Well, as I see it you've got 3 options.

 

1.  Keep on as things are.  Rant occasionally.

2. Wash your hands of it and let the in-laws manage the fallout.  If they want to rent her an apartment, that is none of your business. 

3.  Teach her to be a responsible member of the family in the way you would teach a 9 year old.  You say, "please unload the dishwasher."  It is done incorrectly.  Tomorrow you say, "please unload the dishwasher.  it was done incorrectly last time, so I will tell you where things go while I (clean the kitchen, make dinner, etc.)"  She puts a plate under the stove.  You say, "That goes in the cabinet to the left of the sink."  Etc.  Have every household adult and oldish child sign up for chores.  when she doesn't do the ones she's signed up for, remind her right then.  "Hey, I see you haven't mowed the lawn this weekend.  You're signed up for it.  Now is a good time."

[displace]

Clearly there is something very wrong. Depression on top of ADHD sounds likely. The problem is either of these diagnoses can prevent someone from having the motivation to even initiate treatment. People with depression can takes months to seek treatment. People with ADHD can forget to take meds and be dysfunctional.

 

(Hugs)

 

But a trial of meds at 5 years old is not a legitimate excuse to not try now. Plus, at that age they were likely treating the ADHD, not depression.

 

I would place a limit on living there requiring evaluation, treatment, and therapy. I may even require needing to know what treatment to see it followed through. Having depression is hard but living with someone this dysfunctional is hard too.

[Joules]

He has been pushing back. He is just nicer than I am and waaay more patient.

 

I reached a point several months ago where I react to any contact with them strongly. I had no idea I could get as mean as I found myself being the last time I willing spoke to any of them. I avoid all contact now. My reaction is not just about step child, their dysfunction has no limits.

 

I can't explain, but I do have personal experience with that breaking point.  You want to help so badly, but YOU are past the point where you can help in this situation.  There is too much friction.  Let the child move and take a step back for some time to you to recover.  Then start over with suggestion for job/classes/counseling from a distance, one adult to another, rather than parent to child.  

 

Gently, what you are doing isn't working, even with 26 barreling toward you, it is time to try something else.

[Carrie12345]

Probably. I am an over planner and I know what will happen when they turn 26 and am struggling to come to terms with their inaction and the enabling of the inlaws.

 

I am also not as confident as DH that they get the gravity of the situation. Is it wrong that if they move out I want them (adult kid and inlaws) to sign a piece of paper that spells out exactly what will happen in a short period of time at 26 and that that is literally a death sentance and that no, we will not drain savings and retirement accounts and sell everything in a futile attempt to keep them alive. Note: we do not have tens of millions laying around. It is literally out of our reach to cash pay for treatment.

 

Do you happen to know if these other relatives bother with carrying their own health insurance?  Just because she won't be eligible to be on someone else's policy doesn't mean some dupe can't pay for her individual policy, which sounds like it would be cheaper than going uninsured.

 

Of course, if they don't believe in medical treatment, it doesn't mean much.

[wintermom]

If I am being honest, I am at a point emotionally where I am no longer able to calmly manage the situation with tact.

 

I admire those who can go years and stay calm. I am just not one of them.

 

I would say that this situation probably stems from the father's relationship with the daughter. I would work at it from dealing with the father directly, rather than the child. But not knowing any of the people, I really don't know. 

 

It certainly looks like the father is grooming his daughter to be a life-long dependent, though. This is very unfortunate for everyone, unless there is a valid reason for this young lady to remain a dependent.

[lmrich]

Who is driving this adult to work? 

 

I can't imagine....I am so sorry. 

[maize]

I would say that this situation probably stems from the father's relationship with the daughter. I would work at it from dealing with the father directly, rather than the child. But not knowing any of the people, I really don't know.

 

It certainly looks like the father is grooming his daughter to be a life-long dependent, though. This is very unfortunate for everyone, unless there is a valid reason for this young lady to remain a dependent.

With the added information suggesting untreated ADHD and depression, I am confident that this is NOT a relationship issue.

 

This is a malfunctioning brain issue.

 

And that makes it into a very, very complicated problem because a malfunctioning brain can and will destroy the life of an individual, place enormous burdens on family, and cause completely dysfunctional relationships--all while making it nearly impossible for the affected individual to understand the need for and seek appropriate care.

 

It is not a moral failure, it is a profound disability.

Edited April 8, 2017 by maize

[Guest]

I think the OP's title works- the young adult IS loving home- they don't have to do anything!

 

I agree with everyone else.

School or full time job with a move out timeline.

 

 

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[Seasider]

If you turn off the internet, or at least turn off the cell phone and change your wifi password, what will happen? A meltdown? A tantrum? Moving out? Do it. Force this to come to a head - where either they are out of your house OR some sort of threats are made (by the adult child, not you). When they make threats, call the police. Yep, I'm serious. Frankly giving up and willing oneself to die sound like severe, suicidal depression to me. And I would probably have this adult child committed to a 72 hour psych hold. On the other hand, I have a nursing background and live in a state where it is somewhat easy to make that happen. In the best case scenario, this "kid" gets good help. In the worst, the in laws turn on you and the kid becomes their problem. Either way you get distance.

 

A less nuclear option is to find a cognitive behavioral therapist and insist on twice weekly therapy for 6 weeks or leaving the house (or turning off internet, if DH won't go for that). Go to the first session and speak with the therapist about it all - giving up on life bordering on suicide (and yes, use that word!), social media addiction, refusal to do anything but be a burden on others, the death that will happen when getting kicked off health insurance.

At the very least, with this second option you will be on record as having expressed your concerns and attempted to seek help.

[HTRMom]

If the child does not have a severe disability, I would make them either pay rent or do almost all of the housework like a full-time housekeeper. But my kids are little and I never lived at home for more than 3 months after I turned 18, so I don't have real experience. I would also set lots of rules and basically treat them like an overgrown child.

 

 

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[Scarlett]

This is an untenable situation.

 

I think Catwoman's advice was spot-on - help her pack for her new apartment that the in-laws or her mom will provide.

 

I would add, that I would strongly encourage your dh to sit down with his daughter beforehand and letting her know that he hopes she will become a functioning adult in the future, able to support herself and provide herself with things that adults typically provide for themselves, including the health insurance she will need, and that is why he cannot continue to enable her childlike behavior.

 

She will, of course, ignore this, but he will have the comfort of knowing that she has been informed...

 

Let her go - having her in your home isn't good for anybody

 

Anne.

This. I wouldn't even try to get her to stay.

 

When I read the first post my answer to 'what would you expect in this situation' was 'that this adult child move out'. And I only felt more strongly that way the more posts I read.

[Scarlett]

I would not even allow her to stay if she did get a full time job or went back to school. Just the attitude about unloading the dishwasher so poorly would be enough for me to not want this person living in my home. 16 year olds so that stuff sometimes. I expect them to grow up in the next 8 years though.

[Debbi in Texas]

DS, 22, plans to move back home soon. He plans to get a job and pay his own expenses, as well as pay some rent. We haven't decided on the amount yet. He does his own laundry and I will expect him to help out around the house. Specifically, dishwasher, trash, and lawn.

[Anne in CA]

A year before I finally yelled, yes. And I am not a patient person. I am making myself a gold star.

 

I am not sure why I am struggling to let them just pay for the apartment a couple blocks away. Maybe because we bought a house specifically for them? Maybe because I know that unless pushed this person will do little more than exist? Maybe because this person has a health issue that will kill them without health isurance and health insurance is tied to employment after age 26 and that is really close. Too close to even get an associates degree.

 

And I feel like that giving up is signing a death sentance.

Did you think of disabling the cable and the internet? That might get the young person out of the house to the library at least. I am 100% sure that if it had been allowed our oldest would have done the same thing for the rest of her life. At 28 she is finally getting her life together. The situation your young person is in is worse as far as their health. It is very worrisome. At some point did this person decide that their life was never going to be normal? They will probably be able to get Medicaid depending on what state they live in.... but it sounds like this person is confident that they will be taken care of. 

[Closeacademy]

(I've only read the OP and haven't read the other replies.)

 

Honestly, if they are not going to school or working or contributing to their share of the bills then I would expect them to help around the house in exchange for their room & board.  Chores like:

 

Keep their room clean

Do the laundry for the family (or at least theirs & sheets & towels)

Take care of any pet chores (feeding, watering, litter boxes, bathing, cleaning up after, etc.)

Possibly grocery shopping & cooking (at a minimum doing dishes and cleaning up before & after meals)

Sweeping and/or vacuuming

Taking out the trash

Helping with yard chores such as mowing the lawn & pulling weeds & picking up trash

 

That would be the basics. I mean if they are not doing anything to further themselves then I would use chores as a way for them to build character. An over-abundance of house work may motivate them to find direction in their life. 

[Anne in CA]

I don't know. I do not get it.

 

I can speculate though.

 

I think stepchild is adopting the family trait of giving up. There is a very strong family tendency to just give up and either act in such a way as to increase the chance of death or just do nothing and wait to die. It does not matter if it is a DX that is manageable with meds or diet or lifestyle changes and the person could live a mostly normal life. Type II Diabetes, for example, instead of cutting back on sugary drinks and foods, taking meds, and going for a walk, they increase consumption decrease activity and refuse to take any medication.

 

I can list three close relations who I know have done this. One died. One is on deaths door. One is doing their damnedest to die by 30. All have managable health issues. All self destruct and refuse to do anything to help themselves. Whatever is medically recommended they do the opposite.

I had a good friend who worked for HUD for many years. You are describing the chronically homeless people EXACTLY the same way she used to before she passed away. She said it doesn't matter how much help you give them, they do the opposite of whatever is recommended and will be out of their apartment in six months from refusing to pay rent, even if they have been give enough cash assistance to pay it easy peasy and the apartment will always be needlessly trashed. It is very sad. 

 

This really sounds like a deep mental health issue to me. And if anyone knew how to fix it we wouldn't have homeless camps all over this country. 

 

I'm so, so sorry. 

 

This is the kind of case that makes you want to drop this person off in the wilderness and make them walk out, although according to what you are saying this person would curl up and die.

[Catwoman]

I had a good friend who worked for HUD for many years. You are describing the chronically homeless people EXACTLY the same way she used to before she passed away. She said it doesn't matter how much help you give them, they do the opposite of whatever is recommended and will be out of their apartment in six months from refusing to pay rent, even if they have been give enough cash assistance to pay it easy peasy and the apartment will always be needlessly trashed. It is very sad. 

 

This really sounds like a deep mental health issue to me. And if anyone knew how to fix it we wouldn't have homeless camps all over this country. 

 

I'm so, so sorry. 

 

This is the kind of case that makes you want to drop this person off in the wilderness and make them walk out, although according to what you are saying this person would curl up and die.

 

But would she really do that, or is she just playing her relatives against each other so she gets what she wants? She is in an enviable position of knowing that more than one person is always willing to support her financially and give her a free place to live, with no strings attached. She doesn't have any motivation to change her ways.

 

I'm not sure what to think. Sadly, the only way to find out would be if everyone got on the same page and told her she had to accept some responsibility for herself, and it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.

[Anne in CA]

But would she really do that, or is she just playing her relatives against each other so she gets what she wants? She is in an enviable position of knowing that more than one person is always willing to support her financially and give her a free place to live, with no strings attached. She doesn't have any motivation to change her ways.

 

I'm not sure what to think. Sadly, the only way to find out would be if everyone got on the same page and told her she had to accept some responsibility for herself, and it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.

She may or may not change with motivation. There are homeless camps all over the country with people who refuse to care for themselves due to mental health issues. If she is just manipulative, she may change with motivation. But if she has diagnosed mental illness, she will keep burning through people who want to help until she lives on the street. I have no real suggestions other than what practical people have suggested. Give her ultimatums and see if she can make positive changes with less support network. If she can't make those changes she may have bigger issues that need addressing, and it sounds like she is already good at dodging those if that is the case. 

[scoutingmom]

Yeah. I feel like I am giving up on them. I will admit that often I feel like the only person who cares this much about them. The inlaws are content to let them continue as is and make sure nothing disrupts that.

 

I do not get it. I do not view enabling to this extreme as acting in a loving way towards someone. I view it as being oppressive and abusive. It seems almost kinder if everyone would get together and be on the same page and, while they still have health insurance, to make them move out and have them try to make it on their own. They have friend's they could crash with, I know the friend's will not tolerate the slob ways and step adult child would be thrown out again and again. Maybe it would click?

 

I have a sinking feeling it may not. I am sure it would be my fault somehow. It is open season on me since I yelled. I traumatized step child because I yelled and am evil.

I think if you continue to provide for them... THAT is giving up on them. I would pick a "Welcome to adulthood" date about a month from now and let them know. Say May 31st. After that day they will be treated and thought of as an adult, and to help them with that, you will help them move out on June 1st. Have a celebration dinner with them that evening. Help them move the next day (presumably it will be to their mom's of an apartment provided to them... and that fact does make it a touch easier on you that it isn't dropping them off to couch surf or a homeless shelter.)

 

Try to have the Faith that they will eventually become an adult. It is more likely doing this than letting them stay at your house, although the other side of the family may prevent it. Do not let them back in the house except for exceptional circumstances, and then only with a deadline to be out again.

 

This is from someone that has done this type of thing (no welcome to adulthood pay first...) as a step-parent. It has not been easy, and I am sure even harder on my dh. It has not been a smooth transition over the years. My oldest was homeless for a while (and absolutely hate me) but it's living in another city with a job. The next (an independent person from the start) is doing well. The third is living with her mom, but has finally been keeping a job.

 

Hugs!

 

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[Laura Corin]

I think if you continue to provide for them... THAT is giving up on them. I would pick a "Welcome to adulthood" date about a month from now and let them know. Say May 31st. After that day they will be treated and thought of as an adult, and to help them with that, you will help them move out on June 1st. Have a celebration dinner with them that evening. Help them move the next day (presumably it will be to their mom's of an apartment provided to them... and that fact does make it a touch easier on you that it isn't dropping them off to couch surf or a homeless shelter.)

 

Try to have the Faith that they will eventually become an adult. It is more likely doing this than letting them stay at your house, although the other side of the family may prevent it. Do not let them back in the house except for exceptional circumstances, and then only with a deadline to be out again.

 

 

The thing is, it sounds from the description as if the person may well be ill. You can no more punish a person with depression into taking action than you can punish a two year old into crossing the road safely.

 

If the brain isn't able then it can't receive the signals that punishment seeks to send. And throwing someone out who is sick is punishment.

 

This has not been an easy lesson for me to learn, but doing so has helped me to cope, as well as helping the people in my life who have depression.

 

I would concentrate all my forces on the relationship and on getting the person treatment. Household chores will be accomplished, in all likelihood, if/when the person is well.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Laura Corin

[momacacia]

I'm reading what you're writing about the choreless person and the in-laws and the mother, as well as your reaction and realizing you are being totally chumped. You've got a bunch of PA, narcissistic adults playing you and your DH; playing the victim and you are absorbing the "I'm so evil and bad" because I'm the only person who will call any of you on your crap. Honestly, you are just a enabling, if not more so, than the other older people in this child's life.

 

I'd be fascinated to see what the in-laws and mother do if left holding the bag. Make them the bad guys. Do it calmly, patiently, dispassionately. (I know it's hard, these type of people make you passionate and emotional because they are unhealthy and abnormal and you're more normal and healthy). It's a game. You are being played. If you really want the situation to change, you better figure out how to play it. You've gotten great advice above. Wish you the best.

[maize]

The thing is, it sounds from the description as if the person may well be ill. You can no more punish a person with depression into taking action than you can punish a two year old into crossing the road safely.

 

If the brain isn't able then it can't receive the signals that punishment seeks to send. And throwing someone out who is sick is punishment.

 

This has not been an easy lesson for me to learn, but doing so has helped me to cope, as well as helping the people in my life who have depression.

 

I would concentrate all my forces on the relationship and on getting the person treatment. Household chores will be accomplished, in all likelihood, if/when the person is well.

Exactly.

 

Tough love types of intervention, in order to work, are dependent entirely on the capacity of the person targeted to a) reason accurately about their circumstances; and b) take appropriate action based on that reasoning. In other words, they require functional rationality and motivation: characteristics of a healthy brain.

 

A brain with impaired functioning in rationality and motivation IS NOT CAPABLE of responding as desired/intended by the tough love proponent. (caps because I don't know how to italicize on my phone)

[City Mouse]

Exactly.

 

Tough love types of intervention, in order to work, are dependent entirely on the capacity of the person targeted to a) reason accurately about their circumstances; and b) take appropriate action based on that reasoning. In other words, they require functional rationality and motivation: characteristics of a healthy brain.

 

A brain with impaired functioning in rationality and motivation IS NOT CAPABLE of responding as desired/intended by the tough love proponent. (caps because I don't know how to italicize on my phone)

I'm not sure if I should make this a spin off, but if the adult child does have a mental illness And refuses to get treatment, does that mean that she should let the Girl live at home forever with no responsibilities or expectations?

 

My 22yr old has some issues and may never be fully out of my house, but she does have a job and is willing to do some chores around the house. If she refused to contribute in any way, I would make her leave, and yes, that might mean moving in with her grandparents. I tell my kids that I am not working at this job (2 jobs actually) that I don't really like so that you can sit around and do nothing. If anyone is going to sit around and do nothing, it is going to be me.

[Bluegoat]

Exactly.

 

Tough love types of intervention, in order to work, are dependent entirely on the capacity of the person targeted to a) reason accurately about their circumstances; and b) take appropriate action based on that reasoning. In other words, they require functional rationality and motivation: characteristics of a healthy brain.

 

A brain with impaired functioning in rationality and motivation IS NOT CAPABLE of responding as desired/intended by the tough love proponent. (caps because I don't know how to italicize on my phone)

 

I don't know.  I don't think taking care of the person is alway the right response.  Addiction is also a kind of mental illness, but accommodating and taking care of the person's needs is going to make it worse in many cases, not better.

 

Sometimes, people need to choose to take responsibility for their behavior, and they won't if there is an easy answer. 

[Χά�ων]

Exactly.

 

Tough love types of intervention, in order to work, are dependent entirely on the capacity of the person targeted to a) reason accurately about their circumstances; and b) take appropriate action based on that reasoning. In other words, they require functional rationality and motivation: characteristics of a healthy brain.

 

A brain with impaired functioning in rationality and motivation IS NOT CAPABLE of responding as desired/intended by the tough love proponent. (caps because I don't know how to italicize on my phone)

The thing is that while I work on the relationship and trying to get the person to get the help they need I am still stuck doing the bulk of the work or waiting for DH to come home and clean up after his child so I can do what I need to do.

 

There is the problem. I am exhausted. I cannot always wait for DH to get home to start dinner. I am not in a place to have to supervise a mid 20 something do basic life skills. I brought up the inlaws coming over to supervise and make sure things are done correctly. Nothing came of it and I do not see anything ever coming of it. I think they refuse because they know it is a real issue and if they are put in a position where they cannot deny or just blame me (because I yelled) they will be forced to acknowledge that it really is an issue.

 

I doubt any real mental health treatment will be sought. I know at least one inlaw sees there is something very wrong, but the give up and die behavior is so common in the family that the family does not take action, that they just sit and watch.

 

It is easier to say the only problem step child has is that I yelled at them and the solution is someone paying for stepchild to have their own apartment away from mean me, than it is to really look at the situation as a whole and get the person help. I am 100% confident if the inlaws would stand with us in getting step child help that at the bare minimum step child would go through the motion of getting tested, and going to counseling. But no one will. I yelled and it is easier to blame all stepchild's problems on me than it is to acknowledge they are not mentally healthy.

 

So where do I go from here? They will not seek treatment. I am stuck doing the bulk of the work or unable to cook until DH gets home and that is not always an option.

[Barb_]

What is it you want? If you could wave a magic wand? That's a good place to start. Because where I would start isn't where you want to start. What do YOU want?

[Bluegoat]

You need to tell the step-child that he or she needs to get her own place.  It's not doing either of you any good as it is.

 

You can't control the in-laws response, and you should let go of that.

[Barb_]

You need to tell the step-child that he or she needs to get her own place. It's not doing either of you any good as it is.

 

You can't control the in-laws response, and you should let go of that.

Yeah, this is where I would start. So I'm having a hard time coming up with helpful advice

[Laura Corin]

I don't know the answer. Husband and I did do most of the work until my loved ones had treatment, and do it again when they have a relapse. I work full time and have others to care for too.

 

The way I rationalise it: if I had a child who had a chronic physical illness and who was unable to access treatment for some reason, I'd look after him without question.

 

ETA I don't have to worry about aging out of insurance though

 

ETA too. I do pay for a weekly cleaner. That's part of what my wages are for.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Laura Corin

[unsinkable]

Their argument would be ridiculously easy to counter.

 

If you've yelled at her once, a year after you've been interacting with her...how did she get to be in her mid-20's and be this way? How did you yelling at her a year (or so) after you met her, affect her past and her development to the point that she has a deadly disease, is mentally ill and cannot perform basic chores? How did you yelling at her once cause her to spend the last X number of years in front of a computer?

 

It's non-sensical.

 

 

The thing is that while I work on the relationship and trying to get the person to get the help they need I am still stuck doing the bulk of the work or waiting for DH to come home and clean up after his child so I can do what I need to do.

 

There is the problem. I am exhausted. I cannot always wait for DH to get home to start dinner. I am not in a place to have to supervise a mid 20 something do basic life skills. I brought up the inlaws coming over to supervise and make sure things are done correctly. Nothing came of it and I do not see anything ever coming of it. I think they refuse because they know it is a real issue and if they are put in a position where they cannot deny or just blame me (because I yelled) they will be forced to acknowledge that it really is an issue.

 

I doubt any real mental health treatment will be sought. I know at least one inlaw sees there is something very wrong, but the give up and die behavior is so common in the family that the family does not take action, that they just sit and watch.

 

It is easier to say the only problem step child has is that I yelled at them and the solution is someone paying for stepchild to have their own apartment away from mean me, than it is to really look at the situation as a whole and get the person help. I am 100% confident if the inlaws would stand with us in getting step child help that at the bare minimum step child would go through the motion of getting tested, and going to counseling. But no one will. I yelled and it is easier to blame all stepchild's problems on me than it is to acknowledge they are not mentally healthy.

 

So where do I go from here? They will not seek treatment. I am stuck doing the bulk of the work or unable to cook until DH gets home and that is not always an option.

[Anne]

The yelling incident is a red herring.

 

Don't let it sidetrack you.

 

No matter what you said, or how you said it, she still ought to be moving towards functional adulthood.

 

If she won't, then she needs to move out of your home.

 

Let her go!!

 

Anne

[Janeway]

If this is your step child, you need to take issue with your husband. And here is what I think should be done. ALL the chores adults do should be written out on a chart. And then mark next to what adult child does, you, and your husband. This way, rather than coming off like "you have to wash the windows" which would likely cause resentment, it comes off like "we all live here and I will do the dishes, you will wash the windows, and your dad will trim the bushes." I would get a board and list all chores needing to be done, and I would even list "correct papers" so that it can be seen that you are in fact doing stuff. Even add "pay bills" etc.

[Vida Winter]

Wow. I would pull the plug on the internet and phone immediately. That alone will be motivation to move. You are holding all the cards yet allowing yourself to be manipulated.

[maize]

Where mental health is concerned:

 

The intervention I would attempt would be to do anything in my power to get the person into treatment. I would resort to yelling. To removing all electronics. To involuntary hospitalization under certain circumstances. To--really--whatever I could come up with that might exert any influence at all.

 

Ultimately, no, I don't think there is always an obligation to care for another adult indefinitely, especially when such care would destroy me or my family. I am very aware that if my own husband refused treatment for his illness I would reach a point where he would have to be cut out of my life because his behavior would become too abusive and erratic. I would not, however, kick him out of the house with the belief that such an action would make him become rational and responsible. It wouldn't.

 

I've not always been subtle or gentle in my efforts to get him treatment. At times I have spent hours using every strategy I could come up with to get him out of bed, to convince him to eat, to practically force medication into him. I've sobbed and I've yelled and I've called in family members and folks from church to try to convince him to get help. I've tricked him into medical appointments. Those times are not anything that even vaguely resembles a healthy, functional spouse relationship.

 

There've also been countless hours of patience and compassion and gentle empathetic concern, but sometimes times are desperate and desperate measures are required. I'm not saying my approach has always been right--in fact I'm quite convinced I'm making entirely wrong decisions at least half the time! My primary motivation though has always been dh's welfare and the welfare of our family. And somehow between us we've stumbled through.

 

I'm not arguing that this young person has to stay where they are. The best solution under the circumstances may very well be getting someone else to pay for an apartment for them. Alternatively maybe the in-laws would be willing to shoulder the lower cost of hiring household help for OP! I would not, however, make any decision based on the assumption that a person with mental illness just needs to be forced to be responsible. That is like demanding that a person with a broken leg run a marathon.

 

The best book I have ever read for giving a glimpse into the irrationality of mental illness and the challenges facing care givers and support people is Brave Girl Eating--written by the mother of an anorexic daughter. The insights I found in it extend well beyond anorexia.

Edited April 9, 2017 by maize

[Valley Girl]

I don't know the answer. Husband and I did do most of the work until my loved ones had treatment, and do it again when they have a relapse. I work full time and have others to care for too.

 

The way I rationalise it: if I had a child who had a chronic physical illness and who was unable to access treatment for some reason, I'd look after him without question.

 

ETA I don't have to worry about aging out of insurance though

 

ETA too. I do pay for a weekly cleaner. That's part of what my wages are for.

 

While I agree on one level, it sounds as if in the OP's case the problem is a refusal to seek treatment or accept help in that area rather than a lack of options. When an adult does that and the behavior is negatively affecting the health and well-being of others in the household (which is what is sounds like is happening), continuing to shoulder the burden doesn't really solve anything. It just makes a bad situation worse. OP--please know that I mean this with great sympathy--if I were you, I'd try to sit down with DH and a counselor or social services person and see if that person could help us work through the specifics of the issue and figure out what to do. Obviously, getting help for someone who is struggling with mental issues would be the goal. If that simply isn't possible because of refusal or whatever, then your mental health and the health of your marriage may need to take priority even if it means DD (?) is pushed from the nest with less preparation than you'd wish for her. I hope you're able to find a solution that eases your burden and the obvious worry you have for this person's future.

 

[Joules]

The thing is that while I work on the relationship and trying to get the person to get the help they need I am still stuck doing the bulk of the work or waiting for DH to come home and clean up after his child so I can do what I need to do.

 

There is the problem. I am exhausted. I cannot always wait for DH to get home to start dinner. I am not in a place to have to supervise a mid 20 something do basic life skills. I brought up the inlaws coming over to supervise and make sure things are done correctly. Nothing came of it and I do not see anything ever coming of it. I think they refuse because they know it is a real issue and if they are put in a position where they cannot deny or just blame me (because I yelled) they will be forced to acknowledge that it really is an issue.

 

I doubt any real mental health treatment will be sought. I know at least one inlaw sees there is something very wrong, but the give up and die behavior is so common in the family that the family does not take action, that they just sit and watch.

 

It is easier to say the only problem step child has is that I yelled at them and the solution is someone paying for stepchild to have their own apartment away from mean me, than it is to really look at the situation as a whole and get the person help. I am 100% confident if the inlaws would stand with us in getting step child help that at the bare minimum step child would go through the motion of getting tested, and going to counseling. But no one will. I yelled and it is easier to blame all stepchild's problems on me than it is to acknowledge they are not mentally healthy.

 

So where do I go from here? They will not seek treatment. I am stuck doing the bulk of the work or unable to cook until DH gets home and that is not always an option.

 

I know most people (including your dh and yourself) are concerned about the child, but I'm worried about you! I have a bit of perspective because I had to decide that I could no longer care for an elderly relative with dementia in my home.  I completely destroyed my own health and other relationships, devoting all my time, energy and resources to the situation.  If your siggie is right you are still trying to homeschool a young child, too.

 

Here's my two cents:

Possibility 1: The YA is disabled, emotionally or mentally, and will for the future need appropriate care.  She needs someone to feed her, clean up after her, and pay all of her expenses. In the family that job has fallen to you, and it is becoming too much.  Your choices are to pass the job to another relative, a facility, or find respite so you can continue to do the job yourself and maintain your sanity and health.  So for the respite, you need an activity that the YA can go to a few hours a day, so you can relax and focus on your other jobs (homeschooling, etc.)  You also need someone to come in regularly and clean the YA's space, because that is more than you can do with your other responsibilities.  Frequent week-long visits at the grandparents could also help.  

If the YA is this disabled, then resources like a cleaning service should also be included when someone gets her an apartment.

 

Possibility 2: The YA has a mental illness, but not so bad that she needs as much care as she is getting.  In this case treatment would be helpful, but she is too old to force it.  This possibility ties your hands more, because she is bad enough to make your life miserable, but not bad enough where people see the need for resources (i.e. she will destroy your house with filth, but not burn it down.)  I really get the sense that you and your dh have tried everything you can without her help, that's why you are at a breaking point.  The relationship may even be hampering the efforts to get her help (i.e. parents say I need X so I will DIE before I get X).  I think that the apartment is a good idea (particularly if the grandparents throw in a cleaning service).  She can still get help from there and maybe the distance will do you all and the relationship good. 

 

I know that this is way more than you asked for in the OP, but I think that at some point you need to put your own oxygen mask (and not make the mistakes I did.)  I couldn't not say it.

[Barb_]

I think that's what we're trying to say when we're urging you to move this grown child out. We aren't judging; we're on your side. We're worried about how this is affecting you.

[maize]

Contacting a social worker to find out about any supports or services that may be available could be worthwhile. With what sounds like quite a serious medical condition complicated by mental health problems you might also look into contacting a disability attorney. They usually work on a contingency basis so no money out of pocket and I would seek a disability determination for health coverage and living expenses before just letting someone die.

Edited April 9, 2017 by maize

[Joules]

I think that's what we're trying to say when we're urging you to move this grown child out. We aren't judging; we're on your side. We're worried about how this is affecting you.

 

Yes, definitely.  Please don't feel judged.  I know I felt like a failure, but with perspective (a year later), I understand that I did everything I could.  I do think sometimes mental illness in adult children can't be fixed by the parents, even if the parents do all the right things.  I don't claim to understand the psychology, but it seems like the child has a mental block against anything from them being helpful, and you are beating your head on that block wall.  Try from the sides (or get your dh to if he communicates well with the relatives).  Encourage them to get that cleaning service for her apartment and encourage them to tell her about jobs that might be of interest.  Once the relationship heals a bit, give gifts of services that will help give her a leg up.  This is not your fault!  Losing your patience with someone does not cause mental illness.  

 

I wouldn't worry that the in-laws blame you.  I'd say fall on that sword if it gets her a free apartment and someone to take care of her.  The in-laws need a scapegoat, everyone else knows that you are doing everything you can.