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Need Math Advice for 7th and 10th Graders


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​Having some math trouble with my 7th and 10th graders and wondered if those of you with experience could help me think it through.

 

We used A Beka in the elementary years, and I thought both my kids were mathy as they learned the material well and rarely had to be shown a new concept more than once.  I did Stanford standardized testing with them before middle and high school to make sure there were no gaps, and they both scored above 95th percentile in both math procedures and problem solving.  My oldest has taken the psat, and scored well in math, although we are trying to improve his scores to be more competitive for scholarships.

 

The problem is their math grades are all over the place.  My oldest might get in the 90's 2 days in a row, then in the 80's, then a couple of 70's then in the 90's again and then back in the 70's.  My dd also seems to miss a lot of practice problems.  I do have them correct their problems, but that hasn't helped with consistency.  If they were just B students in math, that would be fine, but that is not consistent with what I saw in them previously, and they are both interested in STEM careers. I am concerned that they're not fully mastering the material.

 

We switched to Saxon for middle and high school, and I *think* maybe that's the problem.  It seems to switch topics frequently, not thoroughly practicing and building on new concepts before reviewing old material.  When I learned math, I learned a new concept, practiced it a bunch, learned more about it, then reviewed old stuff.  I wonder if something like this might be better for them.  However, I'm open to other thoughts about what the problem might be...

 

I have looked at AOPS since it seems highly recommended here and Ask Dr. Callahan.

 

Oldest has finished Saxon Algebra, Algebra 2 and half of Advanced Math so I was thinking I could let him do AOPS Intermediate Algebra and Pre Calculus for 11th and 12th or Ask Dr. Callahan Pre Calculus and Calculus.

 

My 7th grader is finishing up Saxon Pre Algebra, and I was thinking about using AOPS Pre Algebra or Jacobs Algebra.

 

My main concern is giving them a really strong math foundation for STEM classes in college.

 

Do you have any thoughts about curriculum or anything else that might help?

Edited by Jazzy
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How did your older one score on the SAT? How does he feel about math in general, regardless of grades?

 

Also, do you go back and re-learn if he scores below 80? The Saxon method is built around over-learning and repetitive incremental practice. If he is struggling you should ascertain if they were just "sloppy" mistakes and id they were actual lack of understanding you should not move on. Also, even if you misread the situation and they were "sloppy" mistakes the first or second time your student has to go back ten whole lessons, he will decide to check over his work and not make many of those mistakes next time.

 

I personally also let my dd re-take a test if I know he just wasn't checking his work. But I make it kind of uncomfortable- he has to re take the whole test not just the ones he missed- which means his grade will reflect his actual understanding but it also means a consequence of having to spend another hour retaking it.

 

These are just some thoughts. Your student should never just get 70s. 70s should either be retaken or relearned until they are 80s or higher.

 

:)

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His PSAT math score was 580 at the beginning of his 10th grade year.  We're hoping to improve it before 11th grade by studying over the summer.

 

Yes, I'm talking about his homework scores.  With so much of the practice problems being review, I would expect consistently high grades.  I have been having him correct and re-do missed problems.  I haven't been giving him tests, just basing his grades on the homework.

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I generally find ABeka better than Saxon. Saxon absolutely could be the issue, because it focuses on rote repetition and automated responses.

 

Your kids are probably missing mastery. While AoPS may provide that, you would have to go back one course in order to gain benefit without killing the kids. Saxon to AoPS can be a huge leap in terms of approach (though not impossible).

 

You might want to consider a more traditional intermediate step if you are comfortable leading math courses throughout HS. Then, you can follow up with AoPS for outstanding depth if time and willingness allows.

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​Having some math trouble with my 7th and 10th graders and wondered if those of you with experience could help me think it through.

 

We used A Beka in the elementary years, and I thought both my kids were mathy as they learned the material well and rarely had to be shown a new concept more than once. I did Stanford standardized testing with them before middle and high school to make sure there were no gaps, and they both scored above 95th percentile in both math procedures and problem solving. My oldest has taken the psat, and scored well in math, although we are trying to improve his scores to be more competitive for scholarships.

 

The problem is their math grades are all over the place. My oldest might get in the 90's 2 days in a row, then in the 80's, then a couple of 70's then in the 90's again and then back in the 70's. My dd also seems to miss a lot of practice problems. I do have them correct their problems, but that hasn't helped with consistency. If they were just B students in math, that would be fine, but that is not consistent with what I saw in them previously, and they are both interested in STEM careers. I am concerned that they're not fully mastering the material.

 

We switched to Saxon for middle and high school, and I *think* maybe that's the problem. It seems to switch topics frequently, not thoroughly practicing and building on new concepts before reviewing old material. When I learned math, I learned a new concept, practiced it a bunch, learned more about it, then reviewed old stuff. I wonder if something like this might be better for them. However, I'm open to other thoughts about what the problem might be...

 

I have looked at AOPS since it seems highly recommended here and Ask Dr. Callahan.

 

Oldest has finished Saxon Algebra, Algebra 2 and half of Advanced Math so I was thinking I could let him do AOPS Intermediate Algebra and Pre Calculus for 11th and 12th or Ask Dr. Callahan Pre Calculus and Calculus.

 

My 7th grader is finishing up Saxon Pre Algebra, and I was thinking about using AOPS Pre Algebra or Jacobs Algebra.

 

My main concern is giving them a really strong math foundation for STEM classes in college.

 

Do you have any thoughts about curriculum or anything else that might help?

My dd did Saxon 8/7, algebra 1 and algebra 2 and all was well for her until we started nearing the end of algebra 2. At that point, I started to feel she didn't have a firm understanding of the concepts and math had begun to take hours. Now, in our situation, algebra 2 was the first time I had stepped back and just let her read the lesson and check her own work. I later found that she was just skimming the lesson and skipping the practice problems for the new lesson because "they seemed easy". She was also not consistent in checking her work and she had stopped correcting her errors. So, not exactly the fault of Saxon, but she and I were both ready for a change at that point and we made the switch to DO.

 

That was a great decision. I redid algebra 2 with her with DO over the summer and she walked away with a much better understanding of everything. Plus, DO never takes her more than an hour and a half to do, which alone was worth making the switch for. We are now well through DO precalculus and she is set to take calculus next year.

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Thank you all for the feedback!  It has been helpful!

 

My kids have been self-taught in math since they started reading independently, and it has always been one of their favorite subjects.  I do not think my oldest has been working as diligently as he should so it is not totally a Saxon problem, but I know dd has been working very hard and is still not thriving. 

 

I think it's time to make a change, and I also need to take a more active role as teacher until they are on solid ground again.

 

They are VERY reluctant to change texts, and I'm not sure why...   I think it is because many of their friends use Saxon.  I have done some additional research and printed some information for them to consider so hopefully we can reach agreement on this.

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Did you take the khan practice sat? It's officially graded and according to the college board perfectly accurate -That could help

 

He took the official PSAT at a local high school last October, and is taking the PSAT 9/10 at a testing center next Monday. 

 

I didn't know their was an officially graded test at Kahn.  We have a book full of practice tests to work through, and then I'll do the official one at Kahn to see if he's making progress.  Thanks for sharing that info!

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