I am confused....Teaching Textbooks

[kfeusse]

Over the last 8 years of our homeschooling, I kept seeing people HIGHLY recommending TT for math.  we were content with our math at the time, so I didn't pay any attention.  But now that I am looking at new math I am having people tell me that TT isn't that great.  Why is that?

 

1) because it's great for lower grades and not upper?

 

2) because it's great unless you need something more rigorous?

 

3) because those who thought it was so great and now discovered not so much?

 

4) other?

 

why is this??

[creekland]

No clue.  It worked well for my guys (including tippy top boy) and we only used it for 7th - Pre-Calc.

 

This was before computer grading, so maybe it has to do with that?

[Liza Q]

I used TT for several years and thought it was great, so I did recommend it to some families in my HS group.

 

But why did I think it was great? I didn't have to teach it/understand it myself!  And I thought Algebra was Algebra so I never thought that there would be any issue with the content. And my older children have chosen low-math majors and have not needed to go that far in college.

 

FF a few years and now my youngest was in middle school. He had used TT for a few years (I had only used the upper grades with my older children) and wanted something different. We tried a few programs (Math Mammoth and ALEKS) and, even though I am not at all mathy, I saw that they were just going farther. Math Mammoth was "too hard" for us! But I thought he was on grade level!!

 

So I did a little research here and when it came time to choose an Algebra program I asked for help. I was told that TT didn't go as far as other texts did, not that the instruction was actually bad. That matched what I had already noticed.

 

And I found out that the HS TT level books had been revised and now all the work could be done on the computer, just like the younger grades. My older girls had used TT by watching the lessons, doing the work on paper, checking the answers in the TM, and then watching the video solutions for the ones they had wrong. Now the work could be entered in the computer, with hints and second chances. I thought that didn't seem reasonable for high school.

 

So now, if someone asks me about TT (I'm one of the oldest/longest homeschooling moms in my HS group), I explain that the HS books don't go as far as other books I know of. I recommend that they look at the TOC and compare them to other texts. I ask them about their goals for their children. I recommend that they keep a close eye on their children's work, to be sure that they are not doing a lot of guessing. Some families choose it anyway, as the benefits outweigh the cons for them, but at least I am not giving them an unqualified recommendation.

 

Also. I did not choose the most rigorous High School program I could find! But I see my son really learning and wanting to go much further in math in college and I feel confident that he is being well-prepared. And I still don't have to understand/teach it myself!!

[Mom22ns]

I think TT gets such mixed reviews because, like every other program in existence, it has strengths and weaknesses. 

 

TT does a great job of teaching math with little to no parent involvement. For many families this alone makes it even better than sliced bread!

 

When TT was first released, the high school levels were significantly weaker than the standard scope and sequence for the equivalent courses taught in public schools. That got it some very negative reviews. They have taken steps to remedy this in the second version.

 

TT is now an on-level math course that still does  a great job of teaching math with little to no parental involvement. It is not an honors level math, it is not an advanced math, it is on-level. Those seeking math programs for their gifted kids typically consider it too weak. However, that doesn't diminish its strengths.

 

I tried it when we first started homeschooling. My kids who were coming out of public school and were average math students placed 2 years ahead in TT. I wasn't interested in putting my 5th grader in 7th grade math or my 6th grader in prealgebra and instead put them into stronger math where they placed at their actual grade levels. My kids also didn't like the computer model and didn't want to do work on paper then enter it into the computer. TT isn't for everyone, but again, that doesn't change that it is great for some. 

 

Those who use it seem rarely to regret it. Their kids go onto math at higher levels without difficulty, thus debunking the "it isn't enough myth" daily. Use what works for you and your family and allow yourself to tune out the noise of those who say it isn't enough. 

[Zebra]

Teaching Textbooks is a standard math program, with a normal scope and sequence.   There is nothing inherently wrong with it.  Whether it is good or bad is going to literally come down to what you are looking for in a math program, and how you use it.

 

 

 

[historically accurate]

I dropped TT after my oldest did some levels. She did 4 (coming out of a haphazard run through some Singapore 2A), part of 5 and some 7. I found she would do a few lessons, say "I know this" already. I'd test her for a few levels, and she'd know everything taught. She tested right from 5 into 7, using the placement test. She is rather math-y, so I think she picked up the topics through other channels or even just getting the intro to the topic, but being able to immediately apply it to the harder areas. I found she despises spiral, so we dropped it. She did LOF for a while and is now in Jacob's Geometry. I'm looking at Math Without Borders for her next year.

 

My middle likes "hard" math, so I never even tried TT with her. I've done Beast with her. She will probably do AOPS, maybe Math Without Borders at the high school level - she's coming up on Pre-Algebra here soon.

 

It may work for my youngest, who is solid in math, but doesn't have the love of puzzling it out that middle has or the innate understanding of oldest. She likes a clear scope & sequence letting her know when she is done. No more, no less... She's currently in McRuffy.

 

I haven't done TT at the higher levels, but I'd be tempted to do 1.0 with youngest. I don't like the all online,  at the high school level that is in 2.0. I like textbooks for high school.

 

Edit: I just now realized this is on the high school board, so my experience probably isn't really helpful. Sorry!

Edited March 27, 2017 by beckyjo

[Mike in SA]

I think TT gets such mixed reviews because, like every other program in existence, it has strengths and weaknesses.

 

TT does a great job of teaching math with little to no parent involvement. For many families this alone makes it even better than sliced bread!

 

When TT was first released, the high school levels were significantly weaker than the standard scope and sequence for the equivalent courses taught in public schools. That got it some very negative reviews. They have taken steps to remedy this in the second version.

 

TT is now an on-level math course that still does a great job of teaching math with little to no parental involvement. It is not an honors level math, it is not an advanced math, it is on-level. Those seeking math programs for their gifted kids typically consider it too weak. However, that doesn't diminish its strengths.

 

I tried it when we first started homeschooling. My kids who were coming out of public school and were average math students placed 2 years ahead in TT. I wasn't interested in putting my 5th grader in 7th grade math or my 6th grader in prealgebra and instead put them into stronger math where they placed at their actual grade levels. My kids also didn't like the computer model and didn't want to do work on paper then enter it into the computer. TT isn't for everyone, but again, that doesn't change that it is great for some.

 

Those who use it seem rarely to regret it. Their kids go onto math at higher levels without difficulty, thus debunking the "it isn't enough myth" daily. Use what works for you and your family and allow yourself to tune out the noise of those who say it isn't enough.

Having worked with a number of kids using TT, my wife and I are both generally in agreement with this assessment. It is a decent enough curriculum, but the content is a bit delayed - even in the new edition.

 

As self-teaching curricula go, it's one of the best out there. However, one should expect some extra review or enrichment approaching SAT time. Nothing extreme.

[Dmmetler]

I will say-the TT type model, where the student does the work on paper and then inputs the answer, is now something that kids are likely to run into down the way. My DD's community college math placement was done on ALEKS, and her math class (and as far as I can tell, most of the math classes required for either her education or bio majors) requires MyMathLab, and assignments are submitted online, as are tests. Instruction still includes lecture, but the textbook is also online and has video links. The state U is similar for the lower division classes taken by a lot of people. My DD has always disliked online Math, so it was kind of a shock for her to discover that she didn't have much choice in the matter.

[GoodGrief]

Both my math-challenged and math-gifted used TT for prealgebra-Alg 2. Math gifted daughter went on to earn high "A"s all the way through Calc 3 in high school and an 800 on the math portion of the SAT. She continues to earn "A"s in her challenging engineering math courses at Princeton.

 

And math-challenged daughter made it through dual-enrollment precalculus and calc. She has a math-related learning disability, so I cannot blame TT for her difficulties.

[shinyhappypeople]

Disclaimer: I only used it for Pre-Algebra and the very beginning of Algebra, so I did not have a long term experience. It wasn't the rigor or lack there of for us, it just wasn't the right fit for dd. The way the problems were set up, she didn't receive enough explanation and practice to master the concepts. The multiple attempts made it difficult to see where she was struggling versus making simple errors.

 

I think if parents go in realizing they need to keep tabs on progress beyond looking at the numerical grade, it could be a perfectly fine program. It did not work for US. The explanations weren't enough nor was the practice, but I wouldn't slam it as a program overall. I think for independent students in math, it's a good option. But I do think for some students, it could give parents a false sense of security on progress. It's easier ime, for a student to "fake it" with TT than other type of programs. 

 

The bolded is SO important.  It drives me absolutely nuts to hear parents pan a program, when they just handed their kids the discs and walked away.  "Self-teaching" programs still require parent involvement to some degree or another.  You're still monitoring, mentoring and, when needed, supplementing.  

[fourisenough]

I have not used it, but looked at it extensively. It was very simplistic and "light" compared to Math Mammoth, so I didn't pursue it. I was looking for a deep, conceptually rich math program and there were other better resources available.

[BrittiBop16]

Just my two cents...for us, it was good enough. We just got our Stanford 10 scores back and my math-dreading 8th grader scored a "PHS" (post high school) grade equivalent for the Total Mathematics portion of the test. This included an above average score in Math Procedures and an average score in problem solving (which yes, TT seems to be light on). We used a combination of TT Prealgebra and Algebra 1, and for a couple topics, Easy Peasy All in One Homeschool's Algebra 1 course. 

We plan on using TT throughout high school, but Dd13 is a child of the arts so I'm not terribly concerned about rigor. Not to mention, she still outperformed the national average on all fronts so I'm happy. 🙂