WWYD - parenting advice on dd10's art

[SKL]

I think it's interesting that we are more careful about critiquing our kids' art work compared to, say, their writing.  I'm guessing most of us would have no qualms about requiring correction of mechanical mistakes, suggesting better word choice, or re-writing due to poor handwriting

 

It sounds like this undertaking was initially treated by the 10yo as something important and worth doing well to suit the purpose.  I honestly feel that accepting work that she knows is kind of sloppy is disrespectful to her intention to produce art.  In terms of encouraging her as an artist, I feel it could be counterproductive, as in, "well you aren't an artist anyway, can't expect more from you."  Of course that depends on the individual child's personality and whether she wants to see herself as an artist.

[Bluegoat]

I think it's interesting that we are more careful about critiquing our kids' art work compared to, say, their writing.  I'm guessing most of us would have no qualms about requiring correction of mechanical mistakes, suggesting better word choice, or re-writing due to poor handwriting

 

It sounds like this undertaking was initially treated by the 10yo as something important and worth doing well to suit the purpose.  I honestly feel that accepting work that she knows is kind of sloppy is disrespectful to her intention to produce art.  In terms of encouraging her as an artist, I feel it could be counterproductive, as in, "well you aren't an artist anyway, can't expect more from you."  Of course that depends on the individual child's personality and whether she wants to see herself as an artist.

 

Well, I don't know.  I think the thing is, it is wrong to correct kids writing if we have inappropriate expectations.  And with art, kids aren't consistant in the way an adult professional is.  Even adult amateurs aren't in many cases.

 

Also - there is a question of role.  If my daughter wrote me something, not as part of her work but as a favour, I'd be more careful in how I approached critisism.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, DD is doing a creative writing class that has improved her writing immensely. The instructor's philosophy is that you never "correct" or mark writing as incorrect. Rather, each week, a section from each child's work is read aloud (and everyone is to have read their full submission before class), and the students discuss what they see, what they like, and where they think this might be going, or what they would want to see. Lessons focus on things to improve writing, based on what the instructor is seeing the students need. This semester I've gotten to hear the full class because DD is doing it on her cell phone on speaker (so she can see the screen), and I've been amazed at how this leads to development from week to week even within a short time. What's more, I've seen improvement in even things like science lab reports and history essays.

 

As far as messy handwriting goes, if I required my DD to redo writing due to messy handwriting, the kid probably would never write again. When she's in the zone, she wants to get ideas on paper as quickly as possible. Shared writing is typed, anyway, so usually her handwritten version is just her rough draft.

[ErinE]

I think it's interesting that we are more careful about critiquing our kids' art work compared to, say, their writing.  I'm guessing most of us would have no qualms about requiring correction of mechanical mistakes, suggesting better word choice, or re-writing due to poor handwriting

 

It sounds like this undertaking was initially treated by the 10yo as something important and worth doing well to suit the purpose.  I honestly feel that accepting work that she knows is kind of sloppy is disrespectful to her intention to produce art.  In terms of encouraging her as an artist, I feel it could be counterproductive, as in, "well you aren't an artist anyway, can't expect more from you."  Of course that depends on the individual child's personality and whether she wants to see herself as an artist.

 

I disagree with your analogy.

 

If I asked my child to write a story for my personal enjoyment, I would thank her for her work regardless of its merit. My child has given me a gift of her creative effort. It's rude to criticize gifts, especially to the giver.

 

If my child was doing the work for school, that's an appropriate venue for gentle, constructive criticism.

 

She's ten. She gave her mother the gift of her time and effort. That's not the time for critique, no matter how "careful".

[SKL]

I disagree with your analogy.

 

If I asked my child to write a story for my personal enjoyment, I would thank her for her work regardless of its merit. My child has given me a gift of her creative effort. It's rude to criticize gifts, especially to the giver.

 

If my child was doing the work for school, that's an appropriate venue for gentle, constructive criticism.

 

She's ten. She gave her mother the gift of her time and effort. That's not the time for critique, no matter how "careful".

 

Well that's another open question really - was this intended as a gift to mom, or a valuable lasting contribution to the household?  Sounds to me more like the latter.  In that case it's not really "looking a gift horse in the mouth."  I feel that the line between accepting whatever effort and encouraging a better job is not as clear as some insist.

 

A 10yo can make a valuable contribution to a household.  Don't like the writing analogy, how about a dinner or flower arrangement or painting a wall or assembling a piece of furniture ... the effort is appreciated, but the end product does matter.  Even if it's a first try, "good first try" might be more appropriate than "wow, let me show this to the world."

 

Recently a mom posted in a facebook group a painting that her kid did.  It got so many oohs and ahhs, they decided to market it on a t-shirt.  Almost nobody wanted to buy the t-shirt.  The art was pleasing, but not as good as the child was led to believe.  Now the kid is probably feeling discouraged.  I dunno.  I don't think we have to display every artwork our kids provide.  I think it sets them up.

[SKL]

FWIW, DD is doing a creative writing class that has improved her writing immensely. The instructor's philosophy is that you never "correct" or mark writing as incorrect. Rather, each week, a section from each child's work is read aloud (and everyone is to have read their full submission before class), and the students discuss what they see, what they like, and where they think this might be going, or what they would want to see. Lessons focus on things to improve writing, based on what the instructor is seeing the students need. This semester I've gotten to hear the full class because DD is doing it on her cell phone on speaker (so she can see the screen), and I've been amazed at how this leads to development from week to week even within a short time. What's more, I've seen improvement in even things like science lab reports and history essays.

 

As far as messy handwriting goes, if I required my DD to redo writing due to messy handwriting, the kid probably would never write again. When she's in the zone, she wants to get ideas on paper as quickly as possible. Shared writing is typed, anyway, so usually her handwritten version is just her rough draft.

 

Off topic, but I took a course like that when I was 20.  I hated it more than anything, LOL.  I could NOT read my writing in front of the class.  Never felt it was "done enough."  Just a personal problem I'm sure.  :P

 

[Tanaqui]

OP, I'm also on the side of "let it go" or possibly "ask her which she prefers". She's ten, she was repeating herself, she didn't have a place without distractions to work. What did you expect?

[Bluegoat]

The repeating thing is huge to me.  I did art classes all though school, I always failed if I tried to repeat something that turned out really well. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

There is a difference between commercial art - which is often formulaic and repeated - and (for lack of a better word) artsy art.  (I'm sure that there is a word for that but I just can't think of it.)  Commercial art does not come from the soul of the artist really, though of course the artist does put time and effort into it.  The OP has taken something that was done as an artistic expression and is now asking for it to be done as commercial art - much like the soulless paintings you find in hotel rooms. 

 

Am I the only one who thinks of Tiger Mom when thinking of the demands to evaluate the work and make it better? 

[Catwoman]

There is a difference between commercial art - which is often formulaic and repeated - and (for lack of a better word) artsy art. (I'm sure that there is a word for that but I just can't think of it.) Commercial art does not come from the soul of the artist really, though of course the artist does put time and effort into it. The OP has taken something that was done as an artistic expression and is now asking for it to be done as commercial art - much like the soulless paintings you find in hotel rooms.

 

Am I the only one who thinks of Tiger Mom when thinking of the demands to evaluate the work and make it better?

Yes! Tiger Mom!

 

I think kids are smart enough to see through the whole "compare and evaluate your work" thing. They learn pretty quickly that it's code for, "this isn't good enough and let's talk about what's wrong with it."

[Nan in Mass]

Jean, I thought of Tiger Mom,, too.  (I liked the book and think that some of the things she said and did had merit.  Not all, though.)  And I thought about the difference between artsy art, as you put it, and commercial art.  Artists repeat things all the time, in the effort to develop an idea, but it doesn't always come out with the same special something that came through in the first sketch.  It is hard to keep the momentum going.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if a 10yo had trouble doing that.  I still struggle to control that and as far as I can tell, many artists do.

 

I can't paint at the moment due to shoulder surgery so I have been reading/listening to books written by artists for artists about how to be a better artist.  Every book I have read contained a section on "silencing your inner critic".  That inner critic puts a huge damper on one's creativity.  And every single one mentions parents (especially mothers) as the main source of the unhelpful comments made by one's inner critic (along with teachers).

 

I vote you say smile, say thank you, and hang it with no further comment whatsoever.  Whether this is a special contribution to the household or a gift, I would do this. : )

 

Nan

[SKL]

I don't think "tiger mom" is really fair here.  I thought the OP was trying to encourage her daughter in something SHE did well, by inviting her to do it again.  I didn't get the impression the daughter was forced to do this, but that her mom appreciated her talent and offered a tasteful way to show it off.

 

Personally I feel the line is between being honoring a young artist's sensitivities and respecting her seriousness as a budding artist.  I don't think 10yo is too young to start balancing the two, in a gentle way.

 

I'm unmoved by the books about artists being criticized by their moms.  All of our kids will go through stages where they think their mother did most things wrong and was the cause of their every difficulty.  Some will even write books about it.  But the fact is that those people were writing and selling those art books because they are successful artists.  Somebody must have done something right.  :)

[Catwoman]

I don't think "tiger mom" is really fair here. I thought the OP was trying to encourage her daughter in something SHE did well, by inviting her to do it again. I didn't get the impression the daughter was forced to do this, but that her mom appreciated her talent and offered a tasteful way to show it off.

 

Personally I feel the line is between being honoring a young artist's sensitivities and respecting her seriousness as a budding artist. I don't think 10yo is too young to start balancing the two, in a gentle way.

 

I'm unmoved by the books about artists being criticized by their moms. All of our kids will go through stages where they think their mother did most things wrong and was the cause of their every difficulty. Some will even write books about it. But the fact is that those people were writing and selling those art books because they are successful artists. Somebody must have done something right. :)

What "seriousness as a budding artist?"

 

She's 10. She enjoys art. It's fun for her.

 

At 10 years old, all she should be receiving from anyone is praise and encouragement.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Catwoman

[MomatHWTK]

At 10, I'd prefer to encourage my child to pursue her dreams not learn to be a good little employee. There's plenty of time to become a cog in someone else's machine later. 

[38carrots]

What "seriousness as a budding artist?"

 

She's 10. She enjoys art. It's fun for her.

 

At 10 years old, all she should be receiving from anyone is praise and encouragement.

 

*Unless she is asking for constructive critcism.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know that I totally accept the divide between commercial and artsy art.  It's a very romantic view and I'm not sure it's historcally viable. 

 

That being said, there is a difference between art produced as a one-off and that meant to be produced in larger amounts, usually for a retail audience at a lower price point, but I wouldn't say the second wasn't 'really" art.

[Seasider]

I don't know that I totally accept the divide between commercial and artsy art. It's a very romantic view and I'm not sure it's historcally viable.

 

That being said, there is a difference between art produced as a one-off and that meant to be produced in larger amounts, usually for a retail audience at a lower price point, but I wouldn't say the second wasn't 'really" art.

Yes, don't most artists have to take on some uninspired commissioned work in order to keep the lights on and food in the fridge?

[Katy]

My dad (a much better artist than I will ever be) would sometimes correct me when I was sketching.  That was helpful.  He taught me new skills when the stakes were low.

 

When I gave him a piece of art I made (that wasn't as good as he would have made, and we both knew that), he praised me and said thank you and hung the ugly thing up on the wall for 15 years.  He knew the gift was a symbol of the relationship, not a teachable moment.

 

Don't mention your disappointment, ever.  Have her teach YOU to paint so YOU can make exactly what you want if you wish, but otherwise just let it go. Mostly because you'll find that even when you do know how to paint, it's never going to come out on canvas exactly how you were imagining, and loving the difference is part of being an artist.  Different from expectations does not mean bad, or even not best. That is not how art works.  Accept that or learn photoshop so you can tinker to your heart's content and then have a canvas digitally printed.  It will still alienate your daughter, and it won't be an original work of art the same way her painting is, but hey, it will match your towels and you can fix every splatter.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Katy

[Bluegoat]

Yes, don't most artists have to take on some uninspired commissioned work in order to keep the lights on and food in the fridge?

 

Yes and no, in my experience.

 

I mean, why is commisioned uninspired?  The Sistine Chaple is a commisioned work, as were a great many other Old Master works.  I read an article yesterday about a public sculpture going up in our city, with a particular theme.  It was commisioned by a women's group.  THe artist did not sound like she found that uninspiring.  It also seems to be ok for music composers to accept commissions, and that is still considered high artistic work - as long as its classical and not for a commercial use.

 

 

I have a friend who is a scrimshaw artist.  His really artistic one-off pieces are usually on larger antique ivory pieces, which are hard to come by and cost a lot.  He has to sell them for a high price, and so he can afford to take time to produce them, the price-point can handle that.  But - not many people can afford that.  So, he also does smaller works on old piano keys - very beautiful, hand made, and not identical, but less time spent and they are in many cases quite similar and traditional.  He sells far more of these though.  But are they less inspired, and more workman-like, than a commission given 400 years ago? 

 

It's also interesting to see how people feel about someone like Robert Bateman, who is the most popular artist in Canada.  Most galleries won't show him though, because he does wildlife art, which isn't considered "artistic".  Presumably painting animals is not sufficiently inspired?  Or what?  I do not know.

 

This idea of inspiration is very tricky, I think, and so is how we understand and value creativity. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Bluegoat

[lllll]

nm

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by 1234

[Jean in Newcastle]

Fine art!  That's the word for art that is not commercial art.  Commercial art is defined as being for commercial uses and has nothing to do with whether it is sold or even commissioned. 

[Bambam]

I have an arty daughter. She would not have liked being asked to replicate anything she did before. She might do it, but she wouldn't like it.

But, she destroys her work if she isn't happy with it or changes it into something else.

I never try to criticize her work. Her writing, yes. Her math homework, yet. Her art work, no. I may say that I really like this one because ... I like the color scheme or the subject or whatever, but that is all I'll say.

 

I'd hang it. You asked for a specific picture, and she delivered. If you commission a piece from an artist, I don't think you get to say, "Um, I don't like that. Do over and do better." That seems tacky. If you hire someone to put up wallpaper and they do a lousy job, you can say that. But art, no, I don't think so.  

Edited March 24, 2017 by Bambam

[MomatHWTK]

My DD at 13 is old enough to recognize the benefit of producing commercial work. She also understands that some pieces are prepared to be sold and others to be treasured. With any luck, the two will be the same and she will have works that are both productions from the soul and also marketable. I know she wants to be self-supporting as an artist so we discuss how to make that happen. But, it is her choice. I encourage her by showing her examples of other artists who bridge the divide. (Book illustrators, people who sell prints and greeting cards, graphics design, etc.) 

 

I foster her skills by letting her take online classes (live and video) from professionals. They have the talent to show her what she needs to know and give her tips and tricks. Plus, fellow artists speak and explain things in a way that she gets. They are her people.  I know enough to recognize that her skills will need to be nurtured by someone well beyond my abilities as she matures. When the time comes, we'll seek those people out.

 

She used to show us all her art, now she keeps a sketchbook and only shows us those that meet her standards for display. She will practice the same line or idea over and over again. I don't say things like, "If you are going to be an artist you need to do X." (Which actually, since I'm not a successful artist or a professional art instructor or art historian- how would I know anyway? That would be like me giving a rodeo rider advice!)

 

I say, "I'm willing to purchase X (tool, equipment, lessons) for you if you are committed to using it." Watching art lessons or practicing then becomes part of her daily schoolwork. I do the same for my coder son. The child chooses whether to commit to the goal and then I help him or her achieve it. 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by MomatHWTK

[mathnerd]

OP, I would hang up her art. She contributed to the bathroom remodel in her own way, and why not feel happy about that.

I would also tell her that it is going to be a revolving display where you change the art work every few months and replace it with her best work that she picks out from all her efforts. I am sure that it will clash with your color scheme, so you can also mention to her that she needs to keep the color scheme in mind when she picks out the future display art for the bathroom. Also tell her that in order to keep a record of all her displayed art work, she can photograph each piece when it is displayed. That should give her a chance to evaluate her own work.

Maybe she will watch it on the wall every day and decide to make a replacement by herself.

[wapiti]

Hang it.  Zero criticism.

 

The self-critical artist in her may - or may not - desire to replace it in a few years.

[Guest]

The repeating thing is huge to me. I did art classes all though school, I always failed if I tried to repeat something that turned out really well.

Me too. The first piece, I was in the flow. The second piece, I was trying too hard and it was always apparent.

[SKL]

....If you commission a piece from an artist, I don't think you get to say, "Um, I don't like that. Do over and do better." That seems tacky. If you hire someone to put up wallpaper and they do a lousy job, you can say that. But art, no, I don't think so.  

 

Actually, yes you do get to ask the artist to do it over and over until it's what you expected.  They may charge for re-draws if you changed your mind mid-process.

 

I don't view this (the OP situation) as a commissioned artwork, more an intended contribution by a member of the household to the pleasantness of the home.

[Guest]

I also just want to say, one thing I am so grateful to my mother for was that she was my biggest champion when I did artwork. I made lighthouse paintings for her two different times in school; this was her motif she collected. One of the paintings was good; one not so good. But she hung those paintings with pride. Even when a few years had passed and I said, "Mom, really, you can take down that painting; it isn't very good and my colors were not well-chosen." She would object, "No! I LOVE that painting! It can hang there forever!"

 

I actually have many conflicts with my mom, but I have always had quite a soft spot for the way she honored my art. Actions speak louder than words.

[SKL]

I guess I view my 10yos as not "very young children."  At this age, kids who want to distinguish themselves go to auditions and competitions etc. and are subjected to constructive criticism, cuts, and not making the team.  My kids' elementary art teacher is pretty brutal (if my kids are to be believed) and a tough grader.  I can remember getting some bad grades myself when my artwork didn't meet the teacher's expectations (though I was good at art).  Kids can take a bit of constructive criticism at 10yo, in my experience.

 

I think the suggestion to hang it up and let her self-criticize is fine.  But I don't think it would be terrible if the OP didn't hang it up, or if she asked for some corrections before hanging it up.  Whatever, none of those choices is going to hurt the kid.  Hanging it up as is won't hurt her either.  But I probably wouldn't.   :)

[eternalsummer]

"Thanks for the effort, Mom, but there is too much salt in this lasagna you made for my birthday dinner, and the cheese is kind of brown on one side.  Please take another try at it."

[unsinkable]

Well, the "Scary Lucy" sculptor DID give up sculpting...tho' he says it's not bc of the Scary Lucy controversy.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/02/scary_lucy_sculptor_lucille_ball_statue.html

[Guest]

I guess I view my 10yos as not "very young children." At this age, kids who want to distinguish themselves go to auditions and competitions etc. and are subjected to constructive criticism, cuts, and not making the team. My kids' elementary art teacher is pretty brutal (if my kids are to be believed) and a tough grader. I can remember getting some bad grades myself when my artwork didn't meet the teacher's expectations (though I was good at art). Kids can take a bit of constructive criticism at 10yo, in my experience.

 

I think the suggestion to hang it up and let her self-criticize is fine. But I don't think it would be terrible if the OP didn't hang it up, or if she asked for some corrections before hanging it up. Whatever, none of those choices is going to hurt the kid. Hanging it up as is won't hurt her either. But I probably wouldn't. :)

A 10-yo is not a very young child, so I agree with you there. And I am not opposed to constructive criticism in many instances, even with kids several years younger than 10. But the scenario of the OP is not such an instance. The analogy by ananemone is apt. I do not always do flawless work when I do something to benefit my family or friends. Yes, if I'm on the Bake-Off Championship, my Perfectly Chocolate Chocolate Cake may be criticized, but if I bake it for a birthday party, the "If you can't say something nice" rule applies.

[marbel]

I guess I view my 10yos as not "very young children."  At this age, kids who want to distinguish themselves go to auditions and competitions etc. and are subjected to constructive criticism, cuts, and not making the team.  My kids' elementary art teacher is pretty brutal (if my kids are to be believed) and a tough grader.  I can remember getting some bad grades myself when my artwork didn't meet the teacher's expectations (though I was good at art).  Kids can take a bit of constructive criticism at 10yo, in my experience.

 

I think the suggestion to hang it up and let her self-criticize is fine.  But I don't think it would be terrible if the OP didn't hang it up, or if she asked for some corrections before hanging it up.  Whatever, none of those choices is going to hurt the kid.  Hanging it up as is won't hurt her either.  But I probably wouldn't.   :)

 

SKL, I'm usually nodding in agreement with you.  But, I am a career homeschool mom and I think this is crazy talk.  :-)

 

If I assigned my kids to write a short story for schoolwork, and they did an OK but not great job, I'd tell them to fix it, and help them to do it.

 

If they wrote me a story because I like stories and wanted to read one.. I'd love whatever they gave me.

 

I never taught my kids art. God forbid; I'd have ruined my daughter's love and talent.  I let her teachers criticize and grade and direct her efforts.  I just cheer her on - and tell her to listen to her hard teachers.  

Edited March 24, 2017 by marbel

[regentrude]

I guess I view my 10yos as not "very young children."  At this age, kids who want to distinguish themselves go to auditions and competitions etc. and are subjected to constructive criticism, cuts, and not making the team.  My kids' elementary art teacher is pretty brutal (if my kids are to be believed) and a tough grader.  I can remember getting some bad grades myself when my artwork didn't meet the teacher's expectations (though I was good at art).  Kids can take a bit of constructive criticism at 10yo, in my experience.

 

But it is, IMO, a huge difference whether the criticism comes from the art teacher  or from the mom in her role as the consumer of the art.

If the mother were teaching art and painting, and the criticism happened as part of a (home)school assignment that had been given with a clear pedagogical purpose, I'd have no problem with it.

But the criticism happened in a completely different situation.

 

To take your earlier comparison to writing: I definitely critiqued my kids' writing when they wrote essays I had assigned for school. But when they chose to share their creative writing with me, I thanked them and did not offer unsolicited criticism.

Not every single thing a child does needs to be turned into a schooling opportunity.

Edited March 24, 2017 by regentrude

[marbel]

<snip>

 

Not every single thing a child does needs to be turned into a schooling opportunity.

 

This is something I tell all young homeschool moms who are just starting out.  If they don't outright ask for advice, I find a way to get it into the conversation about homeschooling. So important.  

[TechWife]

If you want a specific piece of artwork that matches your colors, hire a professional artist, pay her, and then you can complain if it does not turn out as you wish. (Although most serious artists would cringe at having to match a "color scheme" so it goes with your towels. That's not Art.)

 

Doing this to your 10 year old child is a pretty good way to ensure that she will feel self conscious about her work and may not enjoy painting for you much longer.

What is your goal? To foster a good relationship with your daughter and encourage life long enjoyment of creativity, or to drill her to perfection?

This, a thousand times this!! Ten year olds should not have their art critiqued by their parents. Shoot, adults shouldn't have their art critiqued by their parents. Be a parent, that is all.

[regentrude]

This, a thousand times this!! Ten year olds should not have their art critiqued by their parents. Shoot, adults shouldn't have their art critiqued by their parents. Be a parent, that is all.

 

No artist should have his or her art critiqued by anybody unless the artist asks for it.

 

Constructive criticism should be solicited.

 

If I share my work online in a critique forum, ask a friend for advice, take a class, or participate in a workshop, I want feedback and critique.

If I give my parents or a friend some of my work as a gift, it is a gesture of love (and a lot of trust.) Not an invitation for critique.

 

ETA: I think it is so incredibly important for a young artist to feel safe about her creative work with the people she loves and trusts. Sharing art is deeply personal and makes the artist feel very vulnerable. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by regentrude

[katilac]

I think it's interesting that we are more careful about critiquing our kids' art work compared to, say, their writing.  

 

I actually think writing is just as difficult to critique, because it shares many of the personal and individual aspects of art. Ditto to much of what 1234 said. 

 

Of course specific things can be corrected in both writing and art, when one is fulfilling the role of teacher. If you are teaching a specific technique such as two line perspective, you point out where they went wrong. The same if you are teaching first person versus second person in writing. That's quite different from requesting a story or drawing from your child, not an assignment, just because you like the way they write or draw, and then critiquing it. 

 

There is a big difference even within school assignments. Is the assignment meant to demonstrate mastery of a specific technique? Or is it more of a creative assignment with broader boundaries? I know of zero teachers who would approach critiquing and grading in the same manner for these different assignments. 

 

And of course this was not an assignment at all, and not done in the context of teacher/student. 

 

 

Well that's another open question really - was this intended as a gift to mom, or a valuable lasting contribution to the household?  Sounds to me more like the latter.   

 

I think the child likely viewed it as a gift to mom, but I'm not sure it matters. My dh once rebuilt the wooden vanity under the sink. It was definitely meant to be a valuable, lasting contribution to the household. It was also definitely not his best work, lol, and yes, that is partially because he was rushed at the time. I certainly didn't tell him that it was not up to par, and when he said himself it was not up to par, I certainly didn't suggest that he evaluate how he could do better and then do that work all over again. I just thanked him for doing it. Years later, I can't say that the wonky cabinet door and so-so paint job have been an undue burden in my life. 

 

I think kids are smart enough to see through the whole "compare and evaluate your work" thing. They learn pretty quickly that it's code for, "this isn't good enough and let's talk about what's wrong with it."

 

Exactly. If you're going to do this, I actually think it's better to be utterly straightforward about it.  

 

Actually, yes you do get to ask the artist to do it over and over until it's what you expected.  They may charge for re-draws if you changed your mind mid-process.

 

No, you actually can't endlessly ask an artist to do it over and over again until it's what you expected. There will be a certain number of consults, sketches, and so on built into the contract. Each artist or company has their own rules and procedures.  

 

But that's not particularly relevant here, because that's not the type of commission the OP requested. If she truly wanted a professional commission with sketches and input, then the onus was on her to specify that. And also to make it possible, as the artist is 10 and has little brothers, lol. 

 

It's also important to note that sketches, revisions, input, and so on generally only come into play for more elaborate and expensive commissions. For small and/or quick commissions, like at a convention, they may or may not even do a rough sketch. You look at their prior work and plunk down your money (or not) based on that. You pay and then they do the work. They sure as heck don't redo it once, much less over and over, if it's 'not what you expected.' 

[SKL]

 

No, you actually can't endlessly ask an artist to do it over and over again until it's what you expected. There will be a certain number of consults, sketches, and so on built into the contract. Each artist or company has their own rules and procedures.  

 

But that's not particularly relevant here, because that's not the type of commission the OP requested. If she truly wanted a professional commission with sketches and input, then the onus was on her to specify that. And also to make it possible, as the artist is 10 and has little brothers, lol. 

 

It's also important to note that sketches, revisions, input, and so on generally only come into play for more elaborate and expensive commissions. For small and/or quick commissions, like at a convention, they may or may not even do a rough sketch. You look at their prior work and plunk down your money (or not) based on that. You pay and then they do the work. They sure as heck don't redo it once, much less over and over, if it's 'not what you expected.' 

 

I agree that this is not the OP's situation (as I also stated), but I disagree that you don't get to ask a paid artist to make changes within the contract.  I have worked with artists as part of my job in product development, and it was very normal to critique and ask for re-draws and other types of re-tries.  Usually it was not an additional charge.  The artist wanted to be asked back again for future work, so she made the changes willingly, as long as it was within the scope of the original request.  I guess if it was a one-off for sure, it might be different.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether a 10yo can benefit from constructive suggestions from her mom regarding her art.  I do have two 10yo daughters right now, so that is the context of my views.