American Heritage Girls as a Non-Religious Person

[eternalsummer]

what do you think, if you have experience with the organization?  We are culturally/socially/politically conservative, but we are not religious.  I don't mind the daily devotion or prayer - lord knows I sat through a zillion of those in school and lived to tell the tale.  Will we be outcasts or do you think they will be accepting, provided we are respectful of the religious orientation of the group?

 

GSA is not an option.

[christusg01]

I'm sure they will be accepting, but just know that AHG has a very strong Christian focus that is woven throughout their entire program, from badgework to group outings. It's not simply just a daily devotion and prayer. We were very involved in AHG for a few years and loved it.

[kentuckymom]

DD and I went to one AHG meeting and enjoyed it, but ended up settling on Girl Scouts because there's a troop that meets at her school. The AHG troop we visited meets at the local Catholic cathedral and I can tell you both from the one meeting we attended and from the email about their activities that I continued to get for several months, that the religion is a huge part of what the group does. They'd probably be friendly and welcoming, but they'd also be out to convert you. You might want to visit a troop and see what you think, but it's very possible it will make you uncomfortable.

[Faithr]

We've been involved in AHG for seven years.  Our troop meets at a Catholic parish.  We begin with a flag ceremony and a prayer, but while there is some badge work that is religious in nature, that is usually left to complete at home if you want.  It's optional.  The various badges we've worked on over the years have been things like cake decorating, Native Americans, dance, making movies, camping, outdoor skills, etc.  None of these have been particularly religious at all.  Sometimes the troop does do things with the parish to work on service projects, but since we don't actually go to that parish, we hardly ever participate in those.  And some of the service projects do take place at other churches as well.  For instance our troop helps out at least once a year to sort and organize a huge canned food pantry - but you just show up and start working - there's no religious overtone - just the fact that the pantry is housed in the basement of a local church.

 

So I guess what I am saying is, it might depend on how the troop is run.  While the Christianity is definitely there, I don't think it is so heavy handed that someone who is open minded wouldn't be able to tolerate it.  Initially though, the girl would have to learn the Oath ("I promise to love God, cherish my family, honor my country and serve in my community.")  as well as the creed:  As an American Heritage Girl I promise to be:  "Compassionate, helpful, honest, loyal, perseverant, pure, resourceful, respectful, responsible, and reverent."  And when the girl is working through memorizing the creed the worksheet does have a quotes from the Bible for each virtue.  But beyond that, there really isn't much that I can think of that is overtly religious, unless the leaders choose to focus on a badge that brings that element in. like Bible basics, for instance.    Most of my dd's friends has sprung from this group.  I know that the different families have varying levels of intensity when it comes to being religious - some more so than others.

[maize]

I think it would depend on the troop.

 

My oldest participated in an AHG troop when she was 5, they were fine with us being LDS (which, frankly, some Christian sub groups view with at least as much suspicion as they do non religious folks) and she enjoyed the experience. There is no statement of faith requirement for the girls though there is for leaders (which would have prevented me from ever having a leadership position).

[ScoutTN]

I agree that Christianity is integral to AHG, but troops vary. Go visit for a few weeks to see if you are comfortable. Read the handbook - esp the badgework. At the upper levels Christian elements are essential to completing awards and recognitions.

I'd say if you just want a fun activity for social things and learning, no big deal. If you are looking for high achievement, leadership and level awards, that might be a problem.

Edited March 22, 2017 by ScoutTN

[Faithr]

I agree that Christianity is integral to AHG, but troops vary. Go visit for a few weeks to see if you are comfortable. Read the handbook - esp the badgework. At the upper levels Christian elements are essential to completing awards and recognitions.

 

I'd say if you just want a fun activity for grade school age, no big deal. If you are looking for a long term comittment, that might be a problem.

This is true.  I had forgotten that at the older levels, if you are going for level awards, Dolly Madison or Stars and Stripes (which is the highest award).  The work towards these higher level awards is very demanding and rigorous!  My dd is not going for them because unless she went to the summer camp every year, she simply can't get enough in to reach that level of acheivement.  And since she loves doing community theater in the summer, she always misses the summer camp (she went once back when she was 9 I think).  So she just does the badge work for fun.  That probably makes a big different in our perspective.  For her it is just a fun social thing where you get to do interesting things.

 

Right now we are working on the Space Exploration badge and we are having a blast!  We have a great leader who got an astronaut among other people to come speak to the girls!  

[teachermom2834]

I am a Christian but the wrong flavor for any of the local groups. While they might allow us to attend and profess to be accepting I know it would be a bad fit. I would likely have no problem with the actual materials for AHG but I know the overtones, general slant, social aspect of the group would be wrong for us.

 

Sometimes in these things it is not the actual content of the group but the tone and attitude of the participants. Surely that would vary from group to group.

[poppy]

The litmus test for AHG is their statement of faith (which is required)

 

I will respectfully bow my head through any faith's prayers, and my son is in Boy Scouts -- we're going to have to do some tap dancing to get that "Duty to God" requirement fulfilled (we are UU, and our church does have an "understanding" with boy scouts).   But I think AHG goes further..... this bit makes me :eek:

 

Purity - God calls us to lives of holiness, being pure of heart, mind, word, and deed. We are to reserve sexual activity to the sanctity of marriage, a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman.

 

Requiring kindergarten girls to pledge about sexual activity is not something I'm comfortable with.  I know people who find this wonderful and consistent with their belief system.  Depends on how you feel about it.

[SKL]

I don't think it would be uncomfortable if you didn't make it a point to discuss your disagreements with religion.  Yes, there are devotions and prayers, but in my troop at least, there is no "trying to convert" people or shaming etc.  AHG includes different Christian religions and is respectful of those differences and generally just respectful.

 

One thing I would note.  To get the highest award (Stars and Stripes), the girl has to earn a religious emblem in her final years.  This is done independently but requires sign-off by a church official.

[SKL]

The litmus test for AHG is their statement of faith (which is required)

 

I will respectfully bow my head through any faith's prayers, and my son is in Boy Scouts -- we're going to have to do some tap dancing to get that "Duty to God" requirement fulfilled (we are UU, and our church does have an "understanding" with boy scouts).   But I think AHG goes further..... this bit makes me :eek:

 

Purity - God calls us to lives of holiness, being pure of heart, mind, word, and deed. We are to reserve sexual activity to the sanctity of marriage, a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman.

 

Requiring kindergarten girls to pledge about sexual activity is not something I'm comfortable with.  I know people who find this wonderful and consistent with their belief system.  Depends on how you feel about it.

 

That statement of purity has not been read to or shown to my girls, and they have been in AHG for a few years (5th grade now).  I wonder if they recently changed the statement.  I don't recall seeing those words before.

 

They don't say all those words whenever they state the pledge or whatever it's called.  They say an AHG girl is ___, ___, __, pure, ___..... a list of about 10 words.

 

They do have optional invitations to programs where all that purity promise stuff is offered.  So far there has been no pressure to participate, and we have not.

 

ETA the words you quoted are a clarification of the organization's meaning of the word "pure."  It isn't something they make the kids recite.  I would assume the older girls eventually are acquainted with this explanation and are expected to buy into it to get higher-level recognition.

Edited March 22, 2017 by SKL

[Faithr]

That statement of purity has not been read to or shown to my girls, and they have been in AHG for a few years (5th grade now).  I wonder if they recently changed the statement.  I don't recall seeing those words before.

 

They don't say all those words whenever they state the pledge or whatever it's called.  They say an AHG girl is ___, ___, __, pure, ___..... a list of about 10 words.

 

They do have optional invitations to programs where all that purity promise stuff is offered.  So far there has been no pressure to participate, and we have not.

Yeah, my dd never had to state this either.  

 

It really probably depends on the troop.  And AHG is Christian so you have to be open to, you know, Christianity if you want to join the program.  There are Girl Scouts and other organizations around too, like Campfire girls (aren't they still a thing?) and 4H for example.  My dh was the only Jewish kid in his Methodist Boy Scout troop.  He simply disregarded what wasn't relevant to him and had a blast (Eagle Scout!).  

[ScoutTN]

The litmus test for AHG is their statement of faith (which is required)

 

I will respectfully bow my head through any faith's prayers, and my son is in Boy Scouts -- we're going to have to do some tap dancing to get that "Duty to God" requirement fulfilled (we are UU, and our church does have an "understanding" with boy scouts).   But I think AHG goes further..... this bit makes me :eek:

 

Purity - God calls us to lives of holiness, being pure of heart, mind, word, and deed. We are to reserve sexual activity to the sanctity of marriage, a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman.

 

Requiring kindergarten girls to pledge about sexual activity is not something I'm comfortable with.  I know people who find this wonderful and consistent with their belief system.  Depends on how you feel about it.

 

 

The above is not accurate. The  SoF is for leaders, not girls. IME, not discussed or taught or an issue in any way. 

 

The AHG oath and creed (and the Pledge of Allegiance) are typically recited at all regular troop meetings and ceremonies. Girls learn them to complete their joining badge. They are discussed and taught briefly to make sure the girls understand the words. 

 

Oath: I promise to love God, cherish my family, honor my country and serve in my community.

Creed: As an American Heritage Girl, I promise to be compassionate, helpful, loyal, honest, loyal, perseverant, pure, resourceful, respectful, responsible and reverent. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by ScoutTN

[maize]

The litmus test for AHG is their statement of faith (which is required)

 

 

As others have pointed out, the statement of faith is for leaders only and does not apply to the girls.

[poppy]

Ah.  Well ,the Statement of Faith says "American Heritage Girls is a Christ-centered leadership and character development ministry. The following Statement of Faith applies to all American Heritage Girls Charter Organizations and Adult Members" .  So it is something leaders pledge to, plus purity is in the creed all the girls recite / learn about,  and two people mentioned that "purity promise" programs are offered as part of the program, it does seem fairly central to me.  Or at least relevant. 

 

 

 

 

[SKL]

Purity is relevant to Christianity, yes (and to many other religions and philosophies).  AHG is openly and unapologetically Christian.  It's about building girls' character, as are all the girl scouting organizations.  But it isn't in-your-face about potentially sensitive issues, at least not in my experience.  I do think that if an older girl was, say, openly homosexual, that would become an issue.  Just being honest.

[MercyA]

I really wish all youth organizations (including schools) would stop having kids take oaths of any kind. Including the Pledge.

 

:leaving:

[chiguirre]

There is no statement of faith requirement for the girls though there is for leaders (which would have prevented me from ever having a leadership position).

 

You'll have to find a troop where they will be okay with you as a mom never volunteering. You'll be able to go along to get along as long as you don't have to explain why you can't be a leader. But if the troop expects all the parents to take turns being leader/assistant leader/fund raiser etc. you will eventually be outed. I wouldn't join if that was the expectation because it will be much harder on your daughters to have to quit eventually than it is to just take AHG off the extracurricular menu to begin with.

[ksr5377]

Hmmm....my girls are in AHG this year for the first time.  The very first badge my eldest worked out with the troop was called "Daughters of the King."  It was all about her faith.  I wouldn't assume that all badges are going to be cooking and sewing and camping.  

[Tess in the Burbs]

As with any scouting organization every troop is different.  The more you visit the better feel you can get for the group.  I know there is a statement of faith for leaders.  We have had Mormon families in our troop, but the moms could not agree with the statement of faith, so they could not be a unit leader and we just utilized their volunteering skills for special events or help with badges.  Our troop does pray before and after a meeting.  Some of the badges are religious in tone and do a lot in the Bible.  Some of those badges are required in the upper levels for the Level Awards.  I know we had a Shepherd who did some wonderful Bible lesson/insights for our fall and winter overnights, but currently we do not have one doing that.  

I would suspect the right troop would welcome you.  AHG is a ministry!  Depending on how they run things you might have issues being a leader.  Our troop would just utilize a non Christian parent in helping plan ceremonies or help input badge work online.  I would suspect at some point your child might have a lot of questions though about God/Jesus/Bible.  The pathfinder group(K) goes through a book and they read the Bible weekly.  Depending on the badges chosen you might have little Bible talk, or you might have a lot.  

 

I hope you can visit more than one troop and be honest with the leaders.  I know our group would welcome anyone and find a place for them.  How comfortable you are with the Christian lessons is up to you though.  And I would suspect some troops are more into teaching Bible than others, so what's in your area would make a difference in your experience. 

[ScoutTN]

You'll have to find a troop where they will be okay with you as a mom never volunteering. You'll be able to go along to get along as long as you don't have to explain why you can't be a leader. But if the troop expects all the parents to take turns being leader/assistant leader/fund raiser etc. you will eventually be outed. I wouldn't join if that was the expectation because it will be much harder on your daughters to have to quit eventually than it is to just take AHG off the extracurricular menu to begin with.

 

This is mostly true.

 

There are volunteering jobs that do not require being a registered leader. Our troop expects every family to contribute to the work it takes to run the troop, so some people who do not want to be an official leader do the fundraiser, find service projects, bring food, etc. These things do not need registered leaders. We also have several families that are stretched to the limit and just cannot help much at all due to divorce, unemployment, chronic illness etc. That is fine. I would visit, see if you like it first, then have a coffee with the troop coordinator to discuss any concerns. 

 

It does become a community quickly and most of the moms do participate as a registered leader at some point. Only registered leaders count toward two deep leadership. 

[ScoutTN]

Hmmm....my girls are in AHG this year for the first time.  The very first badge my eldest worked out with the troop was called "Daughters of the King."  It was all about her faith.  I wouldn't assume that all badges are going to be cooking and sewing and camping.  

 

 

Many AHG badges have Christian/Bible content. It is an unapologetically Christian organization. 

[GoodGrief]

My youngest did a couple of years in AHG. I think the experience would very much depend on the troop, though I do think in general most people are there because they have an issue with the politics of the Girl Scout organization. (We were there for social purposes and were actually also involved with a Girl Scout troop...quietly ;-) )

 

The AHG badgework was definitely superior to anything we ever encountered in 10+ years of Girl Scouting with various troops.

 

Our group was Catholic and the moms were very Type A. There were no conversion attempts, however there was a feeling of being somewhat outside the culture. In the end, the Type A aspect was more of a problem for our casual selves than anything religious :-)

Edited March 22, 2017 by Gr8lander

[lauraw4321]

I think this has been asked before, and I piped up before (and will again) to say, why not Girl Scouts?

[justasque]

The above is not accurate. The  SoF is for leaders, not girls. IME, not discussed or taught or an issue in any way. 

 

The AHG oath and creed (and the Pledge of Allegiance) are typically recited at all regular troop meetings and ceremonies. Girls learn them to complete their joining badge. They are discussed and taught briefly to make sure the girls understand the words. 

 

Oath: I promise to love God, cherish my family, honor my country and serve in my community.

Creed: As an American Heritage Girl, I promise to be compassionate, helpful, loyal, honest, loyal, perseverant, pure, resourceful, respectful, responsible and reverent. 

 

 

As others have pointed out, the statement of faith is for leaders only and does not apply to the girls.

 

Except in as much as they are expected to learn and recite the Creed, and presumably understand (at an age-appropriate level) and at least attempt to live up to it, yes?  Otherwise what's the point of having a Creed, and of having "pure" be part of it?  They may not understand at the K/1/2 level that they are promising to "reserve the sanctity of marriage, a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman", but at some point they are expected to grow into that understanding and promise, yes?

 

I get that it is probably not a focal point, certainly not at younger ages, but I think it is wise to fully understand what the organization believes and what the girls are expected to promise on a regular basis, even if in the end you decide when weighing pros and cons to overlook it if it doesn't fit with your family's values.  

 

Margaret in CO has many tales of Boy Scouts who didn't go along with "morally straight" and "reverent", only to find, after many years of work and participation, their path to Eagle blocked because of it.  (The BSA has changed their policy over the past couple of years.)

 

I am not bashing AHG in any way; it is a good activity for many families.  However, it is wise to fully understand the pros and cons of joining a group that isn't a great fit for your child/family, and what the long-term outlook may be.

Edited March 22, 2017 by justasque

[SKL]

While the ideal of purity is part of the creed for adult leaders, the fact is that every AHG leader has a "past" and many of them have not been 100% "pure" all their lives.  Therefore I doubt they expect the girls to 100% unquestioningly believe and follow the whole "pure" business, especially since we all know what kids see and hear out in the real world.

 

My kids have a single mom and a gay close relative.  I did ask up front about the single mom part as to whether our family would be accepted (also the fact that my kids are brown-skinned international adoptees).  We were welcomed and have not regretted it.

 

I am not a member of a Christian church, because I don't agree with the oath I'd have to say to join the church my family attends.  My kids know this.  My kids know I don't agree with some things they are taught and that it's OK to disagree quietly.  There isn't anything in the AHG program that I know of (so far) that would be damaging for them to deal with, whether or not our family agrees with it.

 

As for being a leader, I'm not one and I don't believe I ever need to be one in order for my kids to meet their scouting potential.  However, I would be open to joining if it were important to the troop.  I am quite OK with the fact that many people teach girls not to have sex before marriage, and that many believe marriage is between a man and a woman.  Again, holding it up as an ideal is not the same as condemning those who have or will deviate from it.  There are so many areas in life where I quietly agree to disagree.  As girls get old enough to really understand these issues, they can do the same.  Or they can quit.

 

I feel that even if a girl quits in her final year of AHG, it is still a better scouting experience than the others currently available in the US for girls. There is a lot of meat to AHG, religion aside.

Edited March 22, 2017 by SKL

[Laurel-in-CA]

While the ideal of purity is part of the creed for adult leaders, the fact is that every AHG leader has a "past" and many of them have not been 100% "pure" all their lives.  Therefore I doubt they expect the girls to 100% unquestioningly believe and follow the whole "pure" business, especially since we all know what kids see and hear out in the real world.

 

There isn't anything in the AHG program that I know of (so far) that would be damaging for them to deal with, whether or not our family agrees with it.

 

... holding it up as an ideal is not the same as condemning those who have or will deviate from it.  There are so many areas in life where I quietly agree to disagree.  As girls get old enough to really understand these issues, they can do the same.  Or they can quit.

 

I feel that even if a girl quits in her final year of AHG, it is still a better scouting experience than the others currently available in the US for girls. There is a lot of meat to AHG, religion aside.

I wholeheartedly agree with this! 

 

Our troop has folks from many different churches/christian tradtions, which probably gives it a different flavor than one that is based out of a single church. We have a mormon family -- they are great and the mom has done things like chair fundraisers, lead hikes, etc. w/o being on the troop board. We have girls whose families are dealing with death of a parent/divorce and AHG has been their stability through difficult times. We do have devotions, and yes, some of the badges are overtly christian and religious awards may be encouraged (our troop doesn't put a big emphasis on the religious awards). Usually you will know what badge is coming up next and you can look thru the handbook and decide about that badge. But service projects, camping, many other activities are not specifically religious and really do build character. (We've done creek cleanups, cut out shoes for kids in africa, collected canned food, and much more. We've also done flag ceremony for a pro-life rally -- but that wasn't mandatory.)

 

Our family has done GSA and 4H and I would put AHG at the top of the list for youth organizations. Truly - visit a troop (no obligation). If you like it, consider having a coffee chat with the troop leader about how your daughter and you could most comfortably participate.

[itsheresomewhere]

My youngest did a couple of years in AHG. I think the experience would very much depend on the troop, though I do think in general most people are there because they have an issue with the politics of the Girl Scout organization. (We were there for social purposes and were actually also involved with a Girl Scout troop...quietly ;-) )

 

The AHG badgework was definitely superior to anything we ever encountered in 10+ years of Girl Scouting with various troops.

 

Our group was Catholic and the moms were very Type A. There were no conversion attempts, however there was a feeling of being somewhat outside the culture. In the end, the Type A aspect was more of a problem for our casual selves than anything religious :-)

 

I think that depends on the troop.  With DD girl scout troop, they work their butts off to earn badges. Much harder than other troops as her leader sees that basically giving them the badges is crap.  The mom who runs it, runs it like a BSA troop. Yet, I know a family in a AHG troop that hardly works for the badges ( I hope when the girl is older, that changes).  When DS was in scouts, it was a joke troop.  The leaders really didn't require much for them to earn badges.  Yet the next town over, those boys earned those badges.

 

For us, AHG has too much religion base for us but that could be my area. Not every troop/area is the same, they just have the same name. Check out a couple of troops and see what fits.  You might find one that fits or know which one is not a fit for your family.  

Edited March 22, 2017 by itsheresomewhere

[livetoread]

I agree that it is important to know what is expected of your child religiously, especially in later years. We were Christian and attended church when my son joined Boy Scouts (though he never believed, even from a young age). We chose a troop that was quite tolerant and crossed our fingers.

 

When it came time for his Eagle, we had stopped going to church and both dh and I were no longer believers. My son's nonbelief was not something he advertised, and it was a total nonissue with his troop, but we were warned that his Eagle board emphasized religion heavily. The leader who helped prepare the scouts for their review gave my son a very hard time about not going to church and told him he might not pass if he couldn't give a better answer about why he didn't (my son had replied that he felt more spiritual in nature than in a church which was true and he explained that he showed reverence by caring for the earth and respecting the beliefs of others, also true.)

 

He ended up passing his review, but we were sweating bullets. My son got a thorough lesson in how some people equate religious belief with morality, and it didn't go down well with him - especially given what he knew about some of the other scouts sitting for their Eagle, lol.

 

Find out if she will have to profess Christian beliefs in order to achieve certain levels. It matters.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

GSA is not an option.

 

 

I agree that it is important to know what is expected of your child religiously, especially in later years. We were Christian and attended church when my son joined Boy Scouts (though he never believed, even from a young age). We chose a troop that was quite tolerant and crossed our fingers.

 

When it came time for his Eagle, we had stopped going to church and both dh and I were no longer believers. My son's nonbelief was not something he advertised, and it was a total nonissue with his troop, but we were warned that his Eagle board emphasized religion heavily. The leader who helped prepare the scouts for their review gave my son a very hard time about not going to church and told him he might not pass if he couldn't give a better answer about why he didn't (my son had replied that he felt more spiritual in nature than in a church which was true and he explained that he showed reverence by caring for the earth and respecting the beliefs of others, also true.)

 

He ended up passing his review, but we were sweating bullets. My son got a thorough lesson in how some people equate religious belief with morality, and it didn't go down well with him - especially given what he knew about some of the other scouts sitting for their Eagle, lol.

 

Find out if she will have to profess Christian beliefs in order to achieve certain levels. It matters.

 

I don't know anything about AHG, but I agree it's important to know up front what will be required of her. Do you have an active Campfire USA program in your area? They are co-ed and open and accepting of all religions as well as no religion. The Campfire Oath does have "Worship God" as one of its tenets, but they say god can be whatever it means to you, including the earth or a general spirituality. 

 

Ds was in Cub Scouts and in a very similar situation. We were all tepid believers when he joined but became atheists a short time later. It wasn't a big deal in Cub Scouts but we knew it would become more difficult to hide when he moved up to Boy Scouts. In the end it was his decision and he decided he'd rather be "out" than hide his true (lack of) belief. A friend whose son was in the same boat but a different CS pack found out about Camp Fire and we started a local homeschool club (they call them clubs rather than troops). The club fizzled out but ds stayed, going to the council headquarters for meetings and eventually went as high as you can go. 

 

http://campfire.org/

 

 

ETA: Here's their statement on inclusion. http://campfire.org/experience/inclusion

Edited March 22, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[eternalsummer]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

Girl Scouts are not an option as we are quite conservative of social and political belief, well to the right of even most Christians - just without the religion :)

 

I don't mind anything in the creed or devotion.  The purity bit is fine and in line with what we believe, as long as you see the God part as a metaphor.  It would be very weird to teach a 5 year old about sexual morality, though.

 

I think I'll contact the local AHG troop when we move and just tell them our situation and see if they think it would work for our girls.  We would be looking for a social outlet that also gives the kids some access to learning a variety of different skills.

[ScoutTN]

Find out if she will have to profess Christian beliefs in order to achieve certain levels. It matters.

 

 

Yes and no.

 

In AHG, you move up to the next level as you get older, regardless of badges, service hours, leadership etc. Many girls do AHG into their high school years and have no interest in the level awards or the Stars and Stripes. The fun and friends are enough for them. I know several troops that are very outdoorsy and do tons of high adventure activities and they have older girls who aren't there for the awards. 

 

However, for those who do want to earn the awards, faith does matter.

The Patriot (high school) level award, the Dolley Madison, requires the Religious recognition. To fulfill this, the girl must either complete the P.R.A.Y. program "God and Life" study or "option B", a checklist of 6 or 7 activities like regular participation in corporate worship, personal devotions, Bible study etc. 

 

The Stars and Stripes (AHG's highest award) requires a Spiritual Walk Essay.  

There is a BoR process for both the DM and S&S and questions of  spiritual nature are often asked. 

[poppy]

While the ideal of purity is part of the creed for adult leaders, the fact is that every AHG leader has a "past" and many of them have not been 100% "pure" all their lives.  Therefore I doubt they expect the girls to 100% unquestioningly believe and follow the whole "pure" business, especially since we all know what kids see and hear out in the real world.

 

My kids have a single mom and a gay close relative.  I did ask up front about the single mom part as to whether our family would be accepted (also the fact that my kids are brown-skinned international adoptees).  We were welcomed and have not regretted it.

 

I am not a member of a Christian church, because I don't agree with the oath I'd have to say to join the church my family attends.  My kids know this.  My kids know I don't agree with some things they are taught and that it's OK to disagree quietly.  There isn't anything in the AHG program that I know of (so far) that would be damaging for them to deal with, whether or not our family agrees with it.

 

As for being a leader, I'm not one and I don't believe I ever need to be one in order for my kids to meet their scouting potential.  However, I would be open to joining if it were important to the troop.  I am quite OK with the fact that many people teach girls not to have sex before marriage, and that many believe marriage is between a man and a woman.  Again, holding it up as an ideal is not the same as condemning those who have or will deviate from it.  There are so many areas in life where I quietly agree to disagree.  As girls get old enough to really understand these issues, they can do the same.  Or they can quit.

 

I feel that even if a girl quits in her final year of AHG, it is still a better scouting experience than the others currently available in the US for girls. There is a lot of meat to AHG, religion aside.

 

Want to be real clear I wasn't slamming AHG.  Just, OP asked if religion was something she could kind of ignore.  I think it's woven very deeply in the fundamentals / identity.  Not saying she should not join, necessarily, just good to be aware.

 

As to the bolded, eh, I don't see how you could know. Personally I'm thinking of starting a Frontiers Girls club next year.... no overhead, lots of badges. Basically I just want to teach my kid to whittle and make fire and do community service.    We'll definitely be joining Girl Scouts for trips and camping too.  Girl Scouts have incredible camps. I also love the idea of venture scouts, too, but you have to be 13. 

[lauraw4321]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

Girl Scouts are not an option as we are quite conservative of social and political belief, well to the right of even most Christians - just without the religion :)

 

I don't mind anything in the creed or devotion.  The purity bit is fine and in line with what we believe, as long as you see the God part as a metaphor.  It would be very weird to teach a 5 year old about sexual morality, though.

 

I think I'll contact the local AHG troop when we move and just tell them our situation and see if they think it would work for our girls.  We would be looking for a social outlet that also gives the kids some access to learning a variety of different skills.

 

My troop's co-leader is also to the right of most Christians. I don't see why that's incompatible with GS, honestly.