Help me understand how to pay for college...

[JanetC]

If you have retirement savings, they count that against you. 

 

 

Retirement savings in qualified plans (401K, IRA, etc.) should not be reported at all on the FAFSA. It is reported differently on the Profile, separate from your liquid savings, and assessed only as a measure of the family's overall financial strength, not as available funds.

 

[Joker]

Remember that Net Price Calculators return a net price, not an EFC. It could be that the CB schools are schools that meet a higher percentage of need than the non-CB ones.

 

CB NPC's are based on the institutional methodology. This methodology usually results in a higher EFC, not a lower one. The big exceptions are: if you do not own a home or if your assets are low for your zip code (CB has a cost-of-living adjustment).

 

Run the college board EFC estimator here:

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/pay-for-college/paying-your-share/expected-family-contribution-calculator

 

Schools that return Net Prices close to your EFC are being generous. Those that are higher than your EFC know that you could use more money, they just won't give it to you.

 

EFC estimators and NPC estimators are often mistaken in cases of divorce or family-owned businesses. Be sure to talk to the financial aid office directly in that case.

 

Thanks. That was eye opening. It estimated our EFC is 30K.  :lol: I guess I must have entered something wrong on the ones that took me to the CB so I will recheck that. This was truly disappointing as there is zero chance we can pay that. 

[8filltheheart]

 

Just putting these two thoughts of yours TOGETHER, to make sure families understand that helpful the first quote is true *when a college does NOT allow stacking* (the concept in the second quote).

 

When a school DOES allow stacking of scholarships, parental net contribution IS reduced, as the outside scholarship is applied *without* reducing the college's contribution.

 

:)

That is also a valid point. But, that is not what I was actually referring to. :)

 

My ds has 2 physics depts scholarships and a special honors program scholarship that stack on top his guaranteed admissions scholarship. Some schools do allow stacking of scholarships within the university.

 

  

 

The game is won or lost when you build your school list. Do not start with outside scholarship lists. Start with knowing your EFC versus your budget, then focusing on need-based or merit-based aid schools or a combination as appropriate to your individual situation.

This is the MOST important take away a parent should get from this thread. Absolutely!!

[8filltheheart]

I've been following this as ds is a junior this year and I am overwhelmed with everything at the moment.

 

I have a question regarding the net price calculators, though. Some of the colleges send me to the college board NPC and others have their own. Are both of these pretty accurate? The colleges that have their own on their websites are showing aid but not nearly enough for ds to attend. The ones that take me to the CB NPC are showing aid that would cover almost all expenses, so I'm really wondering if those are at all accurate. 

 

NPCs that ask a lot of questions are more likely to yield more accurate results.  Make sure your inputs are accurate bc junk in = junk out.

 

NPC also only work for straightforward financial situations.  Non-custodial parents, small business ownership, rental properities can all complicate the financial scenario and give inaccurate NPC #s.

[JanetC]

Thanks. That was eye opening. It estimated our EFC is 30K.  :lol: I guess I must have entered something wrong on the ones that took me to the CB so I will recheck that. This was truly disappointing as there is zero chance we can pay that. 

 

The CB methodology (aka IM/CSS/Profile) is customized by individual schools. The biggest difference is percentage of home equity which is assessed, but there are other differences. (For example, some schools look for equity in your car! )

The FAFSA methodology is by the federal government, so there is only one of those.

[JanetC]

I live in NY and I have to agree with the poster. NYU and Cornell are priced out of range of many professionals...their children go to SUNY schools....and find themselves in classrooms with poor people who have taken the hardest classes available to them, all of which are below AP level, and on an academic scholarship that pays all tuition,.books and fees. Its the standard game the system...easy classes,plenty of time to work on maxing your SAT score, and a poor zipcode. meanwhile, cash economy jobs which pay the rent.meanwhile, child of professional is full pay after putting a lot of work in to AP in his private high school.

 

NYU is known to have awful financial aid.

Cornell's aid is better, but uses the Profile which generally returns a higher EFC than the FAFSA.

 

Have your professional friends actually asked to see the financial aid packages of these poorer students? Low income students at state schools almost always have maximum loans and work outside of school. You can use College Scorecard to see average net price by income band. Most of the SUNY's I pulled up were in the 10K range for the low income band, but I only did a small sample. 10K is a lot for a family income of 30K or lower.

 

It is common for people who are frustrated at the cost of college to be angry that others are "getting a better deal" -- but that better deal might not really be there when you look more closely.

[Farrar]

This thread has been really informative. Thanks to 8 and all the other posters sharing all this. So I'm going to venture a question even though we're several years away from this process (only 7th grade here).

 

If I re-enter the workforce when the kids go to college, is that just going to change the EFC for us in a way that means I'm working for absolutely nothing? I mean, I'm happy to work to make college happen. Or to increase our savings or disposable income. (And also because I'd like to go back to work, but that's neither here nor there for this question...) But is there a chance that literally everything I add to the household income will just become more money that we have to contribute to university without anything else left? Because that just seems downright depressing.

 

Obviously this is dependent a great deal on what school how they use the EFC, etc. But it seems like, especially if I go back to work part time initially, that this is a distinct possibility.

 

My kids don't have an in-state university system to apply to. Our single "in state" university is a glorified community college. There are actually much better community colleges in the area. I don't see it being right for them. I don't anticipate that they'll qualify for merit aid. We can get a discount for in state schools in other states, but have to get in out of state, so... that seems off the table. I suspect we'll be aiming for liberal arts schools, though we'll see.

 

I started my own college education at a time when my parents were both basically unemployed. My mother was finishing her graduate degree and only working part time in what were basically glorified internships. She did start working full time during my first year in college and was established in a career by the time I graduated. But during high school, we were living below the poverty level. My parents were divorced and my father had been out of work for about a year at that time. When I started, he made the dubious decision not to go back to work for the entirety of my education... a decision that turned out to be pretty solid for him. I still marvel at the trick of it. He spent the whole time out of work, allowing me to have insanely good fin aid. Then, a couple of months after I graduated, he took a job at Deloitte. I just... only my father. He paid off my student loans in full as part of his wedding gift to me a couple of years later so I never dealt with my undergrad loans at all. I think all of this makes me think that poverty is better for college, though I'm not sure if I need to be broken out of that mindset or what. And we're hardly in poverty so there's that.

 

 

[JanetC]

Yes, working will increase your EFC. Depending on total family income, it can be a pretty big hit. The new Prior Prior Year rule changes things up a bit - there will be up to a 2 year lag between when your salary starts and when it starts impacting financial aid.

 

How old are your kids? Admissions and getting merit aid are not necessarily as hard as you think. Finding the right school, well, that is still tricky...

[Joker]

Does anyone have an idea of how much the EFC changes when another child starts college? Is it significant at all.

 

I guess there is a possibility I could return to work to help pay for ds and then when that is reflected in the federal forms (since the new rules) we would also have two kids in college instead of one. 

[Luckymama]

Does anyone have an idea of how much the EFC changes when another child starts college? Is it significant at all.

 

I guess there is a possibility I could return to work to help pay for ds and then when that is reflected in the federal forms (since the new rules) we would also have two kids in college instead of one.

When we had 2 in college, our calculated EFC for each kid was 60-65% of our EFC when we had one in college. That was an unwelcome outcome :lol:

[Arcadia]

So I'm going to venture a question even though we're several years away from this process (only 7th grade here).

You have twins though so never too early to budget. Have you calculate how much your potential income would bump up your federal income tax bracket? The extra tax would already eat quite a bit into the earnings for us. We have state and federal income tax though.

 

(ETA: simplified calculations say a $50k increase in combined family income would translate to about $28k more in tax. That is without calculating for AMT. We also have state tax)

When we had 2 in college, our calculated EFC for each kid was 60-65% of our EFC when we had one in college. That was an unwelcome outcome :lol:

I am budgeting for 2 * EFC so 65% EFC * 2 would be a welcome outcome :) Edited March 17, 2017 by Arcadia

[Corraleno]

If I re-enter the workforce when the kids go to college, is that just going to change the EFC for us in a way that means I'm working for absolutely nothing? I mean, I'm happy to work to make college happen. Or to increase our savings or disposable income. (And also because I'd like to go back to work, but that's neither here nor there for this question...) But is there a chance that literally everything I add to the household income will just become more money that we have to contribute to university without anything else left? Because that just seems downright depressing.

 

<snip>

 

... I don't anticipate that they'll qualify for merit aid. We can get a discount for in state schools in other states, but have to get in out of state, so... that seems off the table. I suspect we'll be aiming for liberal arts schools, though we'll see.

 

Unless your income is low enough to qualify for grants (Federal or university), or you are applying to one of the few "needs met" schools (which tend to be very competitive), then it doesn't much matter what your EFC is, because most schools will not cover the calculated "need" anyway.

 

In other words, if the COA at a given (non-needs-met) school is $35K, the student does not qualify for merit aid, and you don't qualify for grants, then whether your EFC is $10K or $30K doesn't make much difference — you're still going to have to come up with $35K to attend that school, whether that happens through loans or adding a second income.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Corraleno

[8filltheheart]

I am budgeting for 2 * EFC so 65% EFC * 2 would be a welcome outcome :)

It will be 2x the cost of attendance unless the schools meet need. Your typical public university won't care how many kids you have in college. But based on your other posts, $35,000 x 2 would be cheaper than $70,000+x.65 x2.

[katilac]

 

 When I started, he made the dubious decision not to go back to work for the entirety of my education... a decision that turned out to be pretty solid for him. I still marvel at the trick of it. He spent the whole time out of work, allowing me to have insanely good fin aid. Then, a couple of months after I graduated, he took a job at Deloitte. 

 

 

It can be a tempting option for sure. Honestly, though, I don't think that spending 3 or 4 years unemployed is going to be a good financial option for most people. It can be very difficult to get a job after a long spell of unemployment, and several years is a very long spell. If you can get a good job, or a job that will lead to a good job, I think it's better (financially) to take the hit during the college years if you plan to keep on working.   

 

You can't anticipate every scenario, but running those calculators with differing amounts of income can give you an idea of what to expect. I think you have to be at a very expensive school that also offers very good grant aid in order for not working to be even possibly a good idea. 

[Julie of KY]

In reference to taking a job once your kids start college - yes the schools will want a PORTION of that income. However, I think it is certainly worthwhile to increase income, pay some of that to schools and pocket the rest.

 

You can get an idea of what increasing your income will do if you play around with net price calculators. Put in your numbers with current income and assets and then go back and change the income number to an expected two-parent income and see how much of it you'd have to contribute. This won't give you absolute numbers, but will give you a ballpark idea of what to expect. Also it might vary by school.

[Vida Winter]

An acceptance that you can't afford is really nothing more than a rejection in another package.

 

So true!  I would rather apply to schools where they have a chance of affording it if the scholarships are awarded.

[madteaparty]

You have twins though so never too early to budget. Have you calculate how much your potential income would bump up your federal income tax bracket? The extra tax would already eat quite a bit into the earnings for us. We have state and federal income tax though.

I am budgeting for 2 * EFC so 65% EFC * 2 would be a welcome outcome :)

I don't know anything about financial aid, but I'm guessing the questions to ask yourself would be, would you get any aid at all now? Also, what Arcadia said, which put another way is, would you change tax brackets? If you're already in the highest tax bracket, then I imagine it makes sense to work!

[Mom2boys]

Thanks. That was eye opening. It estimated our EFC is 30K.  :lol: I guess I must have entered something wrong on the ones that took me to the CB so I will recheck that. This was truly disappointing as there is zero chance we can pay that. 

 

We are in the same boat with our EFC. The only way we could actually afford it is if the rest of the family gave up food and health care. And we decided against that.  ;)

[Joker]

We are in the same boat with our EFC. The only way we could actually afford it is if the rest of the family gave up food and health care. And we decided against that.  ;)

 

Yeah, I'm wondering how they actually come up with these numbers!

 

Ds really has his heart set on Chicago so we're trying to research and focus on those with good merit aid. He should be in a good position for those but I'll be surprised if he gets what he's wanting. If all else fails, we do have a decent state school only 20 minutes away and relatively inexpensive and I think he would feel okay there as it's in a busy downtown area. Not quite Chicago but it will probably have to do. Fortunately, dd does not care at all where she goes so she will be much more open in where to go. 

[Arcadia]

(ETA: deleted mixed up of EFC and net price)

 

Lori.D has a nice long link list here covering all aspects. I am slowly reading through the financial aid links http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/475909-transcripts-credits-ncaa-college-applications-first-time-at-college-scholarshipsfinancial-aid-career-explore-past-threads-linked-here/?p=5007375

Edited March 18, 2017 by Arcadia

[Farrar]

I don't know anything about financial aid, but I'm guessing the questions to ask yourself would be, would you get any aid at all now? Also, what Arcadia said, which put another way is, would you change tax brackets? If you're already in the highest tax bracket, then I imagine it makes sense to work!

 

If I took a part time job, it likely wouldn't... though it so depends. I think we would qualify for some aid now. Not a ton. Another thing maybe working against us is the equity in our home. It's worth a great deal more than when we bought it just because we bought at the right time.

[JanetC]

I don't know how CB comes out with the EFC numbers either but it is lower than the EFCs results on some of the schools EFC's calculators.

School NPC calculators are estimating Net Price at that particular school. They're not telling you your EFC.

 

Keep EFC and Net Price separate in your head. Your FAFSA EFC stays the same no matter what school you go to. Your Net Price may change quite a bit however.

[Lori D.]

That is also a valid point. But, that is not what I was actually referring to. :)

 

My ds has 2 physics depts scholarships and a special honors program scholarship that stack on top his guaranteed admissions scholarship. Some schools do allow stacking of scholarships within the university.

 

Thanks for clarifying. :)

[Lori D.]

If I re-enter the workforce when the kids go to college, is that just going to change the EFC for us in a way that means I'm working for absolutely nothing? 

 

Farrar, I know your DSs are about 5 years away from college, and costs/aid will change a lot in that time, BUT... just to get a quick feel for things financially now, go to the colorful chart in the middle of this web page.

 

Let's say your DH makes $100,000 as the AGI (Adjusted Gross Income). Follow that figure over on the chart to the column for 2 dependents (for your 2 DSs) and that number is your rough-estimated EFC -- in this example, $17,215.

 

So, let's say you work part time and make $25,000/year. Now your family income is $125,000 ($100,000 + $25,000), and the corresponding EFC for 2 dependents is $24,212. In this example, earning an addition $25,000 increased your EFC by $7000.

 

You can plug in these very rough-estimated EFC numbers into the formula of: COA - EFC = Need (see my post #25) to get an idea of what your Financial Need would be for the different colleges you are interested in.

 

Then check out the College Data website (the "411" section, which provides data about admissions, money matters (financial aid statistics), and other info on various schools), to get a feel for what % of need the school meets, average amount of aid given, and how much of that financial aid is likely to be in the form of loans, work study, grants or scholarships.

 

As far as a family's EFC number and federal financial aid:

- Pell Grant -- majority of these are awarded to students with families making < $30,000/year (EFC of 4617 or less)

- Work Study -- variable; I have seen the EFC cut-off listed at 3000, but some schools have trouble distributing all of their funds, so I've also heard that distribution starts with those having highest Need, but much higher EFC numbers often receive Work Study too

- student loans -- based on amount of Need, dependent on the specific school (COA - EFC = Need)

[creekland]

FWIW, we calculated (roughly) how much more we would pay if I increased my hours at work and found it would take essentially 1/3rd of my income.  Then add in taxes, extra clothes, etc, for work and any other expense needed.  I did increase some because there was still a benefit, but I didn't put a lot of effort into it once finding out how small that benefit actually was.

 

I'm not sure if that will have changed in the past 4 years though.

[Hilltopmom]

I too,have thought about going back to work.

But I have littles at home too & want to be home with them... I'd have to pay for daycare

 

Plus, we'd be bumped into the next tax bracket, & I would need a new career (I'm over teaching), & well, I hated working while trying to raise preschoolers when I did it the first time around.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Hilltopmom

[Farrar]

There really won't be a good reason for me not to go back to work in some form once the kids are gone. No youngers and I don't do so much volunteer work or anything else that's a "calling" or time consuming enough to justify it. I guess we'll see. I don't want to go back to classroom teaching so it's all up in the air anyway.

 

Thanks for the thoughts. I did attend a needs met institution, so I think my thinking often goes to that, even though I know that's not the norm.

[Tiramisu]

Farrar, I know your DSs are about 5 years away from college, and costs/aid will change a lot in that time, BUT... just to get a quick feel for things financially now, go to the colorful chart in the middle of this web page.

 

Let's say your DH makes $100,000 as the AGI (Adjusted Gross Income). Follow that figure over on the chart to the column for 2 dependents (for your 2 DSs) and that number is your rough-estimated EFC -- in this example, $17,215.

 

So, let's say you work part time and make $25,000/year. Now your family income is $125,000 ($100,000 + $25,000), and the corresponding EFC for 2 dependents is $24,212. In this example, earning an addition $25,000 increased your EFC by $7000.

 

You can plug in these very rough-estimated EFC numbers into the formula of: COA - EFC = Need (see my post #25) to get an idea of what your Financial Need would be for the different colleges you are interested in.

 

Then check out the College Data website (the "411" section, which provides data about admissions, money matters (financial aid statistics), and other info on various schools), to get a feel for what % of need the school meets, average amount of aid given, and how much of that financial aid is likely to be in the form of loans, work study, grants or scholarships.

 

As far as a family's EFC number and federal financial aid:

- Pell Grant -- majority of these are awarded to students with families making < $30,000/year (EFC of 4617 or less)

- Work Study -- variable; I have seen the EFC cut-off listed at 3000, but some schools have trouble distributing all of their funds, so I've also heard that distribution starts with those having highest Need, but much higher EFC numbers often receive Work Study too

- student loans -- based on amount of Need, dependent on the specific school (COA - EFC = Need)

The chart is so simple that it's misleading because it doesn't take savings into account.

 

According to the chart, our EFC would be around $3500. But last time I did the FAFSA it was many times more due to our savings, savings which happens to be very necessary for us because we were living abroad until dh was in middle age...and then we were low income. We won't be able to rely on social security, pensions, 401Ks, etc., in our old age.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Tiramisu

[Tiramisu]

You have to run each school's NPC. We have found a range of less than a hundred dollars to almost $50,000 per year!

 

At least that makes it easy to toss some off the list!!!

[creekland]

Plus, we'd be bumped into the next tax bracket, 

 

Just keep in mind that "the next tax bracket" is only on the excess made above the lower tax bracket.  

 

Many people incorrectly assume all of their income is taxed at the higher amount when they go up.  It's not.

[Lori D.]

The chart is so simple that it's misleading because it doesn't take savings into account.

 

Yes, it's only meant as a very rough guide until you fill out the FAFSA.

[...................]

Our local community college, is having a new program from our city where EIGHT HUNDRED kids that can't get into a better university, will now be shuffled from barely passing high school into FREE community college. (this is NOt the one i was going to send my ds to) ...imagine what that feels like for middle class kids who couldn't afford the state U, even though they were good students?  

[AngieW in Texas]

It's really difficult.

 

My two older kids were high stats kids. They both got full tuition scholarships at a great in-state school and also a $1500 stipend each year to go towards books/meal plan/housing. What that meant was that we were paying just for the dorm and most of the meal plan. Even with just that cost, we struggled and ended up taking out a loan. We had a lot of medical expenses with three emergency room visits and two week-long hospital admissions along with a lot of followup care for my dh and our oldest. And then the youngest has done many rounds of physical therapy and occupational therapy along with vision therapy and speech therapy. Our EFC is basically full-price.

 

Our oldest only went for five semesters and then stopped. Our middle completed her degree in 6 semesters, but has not been able to find a full-time job. Her field requires a master's degree, but speech pathology departments do not provide support for their master's degree students and it's highly competitive to get into. Even with a 3.95 GPA, she didn't get in to any of the grad schools where she applied on her first try. She is going to try again this fall.

 

Our youngest is going to an out-of-state school that has turned out to be a poor fit. A is not a high stat student. Although A works super-hard, disabilities bring down scores and a medical condition limits how many credits A can take. Even so, the school where A is currently attending costs the same as staying in-state would have because of scholarships. A will not be returning to that school next year. We are exploring options now. We were barely able to manage making the payments for the first year and didn't know how we were going to manage next year.

[Pegasus]

Yeah, I'm wondering how they actually come up with these numbers!

 

 

Just a couple thoughts:

 

1. Many people compare their college costs to their current income and are aghast.  However, families are expected to use past (savings), current, and future (loans) income to pay for college.

 

2. Both cost of living and lifestyle choices make a HUGE impact on what a family can afford. If you live simply but in a high cost of  living area, the costs can be truly unaffordable. If you live at or above your means in any cost of living area, again, the cost is unaffordable.

 

I consider us very fortunate in that we live in a low cost of living area with a good quality community college a few miles away and the state flagship university within commuting distance.  Many many families do not have these advantages.  

[maize]

Our local community college, is having a new program from our city where EIGHT HUNDRED kids that can't get into a better university, will now be shuffled from barely passing high school into FREE community college. (this is NOt the one i was going to send my ds to) ...imagine what that feels like for middle class kids who couldn't afford the state U, even though they were good students?

My response to that would be--imagine what it feels like to be a non middle class kid with an insecure home life, difficulty with school, and apparently no opportunities for your future.

 

This sounds like a program with some promise.

[creekland]

My response to that would be--imagine what it feels like to be a non middle class kid with an insecure home life, difficulty with school, and apparently no opportunities for your future.

 

This sounds like a program with some promise.

 

Not only that, I'm hoping like at many community colleges there are some vo-tech programs that are much more likely to suit these kids - not nearly the same thing as working on a 2 + 2 program.

 

It sure beats turning them loose on the street with no post high school education and seeing what happens to them instead.  Drug dealers always seem to be hiring when one has no other choices.   :glare:

 

(I'm aware that many opt to choose to deal drugs just because they can regardless of economics, but I've also individually asked some at my school "WHY?" after they were caught and was told, "What else can I do that pays enough to live on?")

[JanetC]

Yes, it's only meant as a very rough guide until you fill out the FAFSA.

That chart is from Troy Onink at Forbes. Forbes little advertising wall makes it hard to provide s workable link, but google "FAFSA guide Troy Onink Forbes.com" and read the article that puts it in more context.

[JanetC]

Our local community college, is having a new program from our city where EIGHT HUNDRED kids that can't get into a better university, will now be shuffled from barely passing high school into FREE community college. (this is NOt the one i was going to send my ds to) ...imagine what that feels like for middle class kids who couldn't afford the state U, even though they were good students?

Depends on the size of the community college. Ours has programs for immigrants, high school dropouts, high school dual enrollment, people who just want to learn a skill and not transfer to a four-year college, etc. My bright middle-class kids have found plenty of appropriate classes to meet their own needs, too, and have also gained a better appreciation for a diversity of backgrounds and life experiences.

[JanetC]

Yeah, I'm wondering how they actually come up with these numbers!

 

It's based on the poverty level from 1960, plus 50 years of adjustments. A lot the adjustments reuse numbers calculated for other purposes, especially Social Security. Whenever there is an adjustment to SS to make the fund last longer without raising taxes, financial aid is also automatically reduced.

[8filltheheart]

Our local community college, is having a new program from our city where EIGHT HUNDRED kids that can't get into a better university, will now be shuffled from barely passing high school into FREE community college. (this is NOt the one i was going to send my ds to) ...imagine what that feels like for middle class kids who couldn't afford the state U, even though they were good students?  

 

This is really individual student dependent.  For your typical good student (high GPA, a few APs, and avg test scores), attending a CC for a common major and taking most of the gen eds is not really that bad of an option. It is far from ideal, but it is also not the worst case scenario.

 

For your really advanced student (approaching 2 yrs' worth of AP credit or at levels beyond CC course offerings), attending a CC is not a viable option simply bc there are not enough course offerings to make it work.

 

 A CC is also not a good option for any kids who want majors that don't even have introductory level courses at most CCs.  That is a smaller number of majors, but they do exist.  Non-top students in this category are in a pretty hard spot.

 

For really good students, the main take away if you cannot afford the university that you and your child are convinced they need to attend is that you have 2 options: 1-accept that you are going to have to take on a lot of debt for them to attend, or 2-accept that they need to consider other options b/c for top students the possibility of finding affordable schools is more of a realistic possibility.

 

The kids on CC you see in the spring facing crisis are the ones who were convinced they had to attend certain schools and 1 of 2 things happened: 1- they were waitlisted or rejected and they didn't apply to any good alternatives and their local CC is their only option or taking a gap yr and reapplying the next yr, or 2-- they applied to schools that they refused to accept they couldn't afford, were accepted, but then finally realize that not affording the school is a real thing and no, they can't just make the $$ work b/c they want it to.

 

This is a country with thousands of universities. I personally do not believe that there are only a tiny handful of schools that are the "right" ones.  If a student wants to limit themselves to only working for a company that only hires from those "right" ones, somehow they are going to have to figure out a way to pay for it.  If is a STEM field, one option is to apply for a SMART scholarship.  They owe a yr of service to the gov't for every yr of scholarship they receive.

[Lori D.]

That chart is from Troy Onink at Forbes. Forbes little advertising wall makes it hard to provide s workable link, but google "FAFSA guide Troy Onink Forbes.com" and read the article that puts it in more context.

 

Thanks for providing another option for reading it! :) I had linked it from a different website (Road2College), as I was unwilling to do the work-around to get past Forbes' advertising wall, but I was sad to not be able to find a way to also link Mr. Onink's article, which is a good one! :)

[JanetC]

Thanks for providing another option for reading it! :) I had linked it from a different website (Road2College), as I was unwilling to do the work-around to get past Forbes' advertising wall, but I was sad to not be able to find a way to also link Mr. Onink's article, which is a good one! :)

You can also use lmgtfy to turn any google search into a link

 

http://bfy.tw/4JqL

[FaithManor]

Does anyone have an idea of how much the EFC changes when another child starts college? Is it significant at all.

 

I guess there is a possibility I could return to work to help pay for ds and then when that is reflected in the federal forms (since the new rules) we would also have two kids in college instead of one.

We got no reduction. So just double. I figure when ds three enters they will expect us to go triple. There is no help out there for the middle class.

 

Since they get absolutely nothing and the EFC is already laughable, there is no detriment for me going back into the workforce. The bill is going to be astronomical so I may as well earn money to pay on it.

[JanetC]

We got no reduction. So just double. I figure when ds three enters they will expect us to go triple. There is no help out there for the middle class.

 

This will vary by school -- maybe DS3 will get into a school with a bigger financial aid budget. I found that the best NPC prices for my DD2 have been at very "reachy" schools. Even though the websites say 50% reduction at FAFSA schools and about 30-40% reduction at Profile schools, we have a couple that came in at 50%. I'm trying to figure out how if we could pay for it in years 3&4 when we will be full pay (no merit at those reach schools).

[FaithManor]

And earn credits towards SS disability should the unthinkable happen

Exactly. All these years out of the workforce hurts. If youngest ds gets a bunch of scholarships, then I can put it in the Roth or a 401K.

[FaithManor]

This will vary by school -- maybe DS3 will get into a school with a bigger financial aid budget. I found that the best NPC prices for my DD2 have been at very "reachy" schools. Even though the websites say 50% reduction at FAFSA schools and about 30-40% reduction at Profile schools, we have a couple that came in at 50%. I'm trying to figure out how if we could pay for it in years 3&4 when we will be full pay (no merit at those reach schools).

My boys have chosen niche majors so it limits the pool of potential schools. Middle ds is majoring in Freshwater Sciences and Sustainability (unique conservation degree). He is at the one and only college in the nation with that program. Back up schools were close programs with Great Lakes Research centers and at least one research boat with labs. This was a list of four other schools, no others.

 

Eldest in Journalism but with some specific program requirements, and youngest is looking robotics engineering but is shy and nor cut throat competitive so that takes some schools that are big merit colleges off the list because he would be miserable.

 

So we will live with the crazy cost, but I am going to have to work. If were back in the workforce for the fall, I would end up living in Chicago away from dh during the week and take the train home weekends because I can rent a room from a relative. The music job availabler right now I am highly qualified for, and it pays way better than I can get around here. But ds has one more year of homeschooling.

[JanetC]

@FaithManor I get it. My DD2 is also pointed at a narrow niche.

[Lori D.]

On 3/18/2017 at 6:06 AM, Pegasus said:

Just a couple thoughts:

1. Many people compare their college costs to their current income and are aghast.  However, families are expected to use past (savings), current, and future (loans) income to pay for college.

2. Both cost of living and lifestyle choices make a HUGE impact on what a family can afford. If you live simply but in a high cost of  living area, the costs can be truly unaffordable. If you live at or above your means in any cost of living area, again, the cost is unaffordable.

Absolutely agree.

But I'll just add that we WERE doing #1 and #2 -- We were saving for college before DSs were even born. And we were choosing to live a fairly frugal and debt-free lifestyle. And we are fortunate to live in a low cost of living area. And we were still aghast at college costs and how unaffordable they were for us.

Due to the economic downturn and bursting of the housing bubble, our state was esp. hit hard financially, which in turn caused the state to drastically slash $$ to the universities. (College costs in our state soared by over 250% in the 10 years between 2001 and 2011, the year DS#1 graduated and was ready for college). As a result, the college savings we had amassed that would have been just enough for each DS to have 4 *years* at the local state university, suddenly was not quite enough for just 3 *semesters* at the same school. And the FAFSA EFC # indicated that we should be able to contribute over 1/3 of our income towards college.

So bad economic timing that was our of our control explains our "aghast-ness" (lol).

And failure of colleges and federal aid to adjust to the new economic realities of families are going to cause families to continue to be aghast.

And there are good reasons to be aghast. College costs have skyrocketed. Federal financial aid awards (Pell grants, work study, and loans) have not increased since the 1970s. College aid awards have gone down because many schools are no longer receiving the levels of state funding or private endowments that they once did. And wages have not increased at a similar rate as college costs. Which means a widening gap between college costs and what can be saved for college. Which in turn means larger loans to bridge that gap. And continuing to increase the amount of loans is unsustainable.

So while I totally agree with living within your means and saving for college, for the typical middle class family who does not have a super star student who can land full tuition scholarships means that it is becoming increasingly difficult to finance college even if you HAVE been doing the financially sound things all along...

Edited August 14, 2018 by Lori D.