add moms - ?

[gardenmom5]

anyone use non-rx supplments to help your kiddos add?  (no hyperactivity.)

 

I'm dealing with a lack of focus that changes when stimulated in such a way that I'm wondering about this.  I have a message into his nd.

 

[Tap]

Caffeine.  Easy. Cheap, lasts 2-6 hours depending on the person.  

 

Heavy Protein breakfast and protein snacks to avoid dips in blood sugar.

 

 

[Carrie12345]

Caffeine.  Easy. Cheap, lasts 2-6 hours depending on the person.  

 

Heavy Protein breakfast and protein snacks to avoid dips in blood sugar.

 

Yup. For me and my daughter!

[Guest]

anyone use non-rx supplments to help your kiddos add?  (no hyperactivity.)

 

I'm dealing with a lack of focus that changes when stimulated in such a way that I'm wondering about this.  I have a message into his nd.

 

I do not (read: will not) use caffeine with mine. If they were in school...maybe. But they are not.

 

What I do do is provide predictable structure, and within that predictable structure, I change things up. The structure prevents anxiety (a common co-morbidity with ADD) and changing things up keep them focused. For school, it means frequent breaks with physical activity; doing multiple programs for the same subject; reading in an unexpected voice. Chatting.... letting it take longer than it "should" take . This one was hard for me. It doesn't bother them (elastic sense of time), so I had to learn to let it not bother me.

 

Stuff that would drive me crazy--like music with words, or podcasts, playing while I try to write, helps them tremendously.

 

IOW, the stimulation they need to focus is environmental.

 

Lots LOTS of physical activity.

 

No processed sugar 99% of the time, and even fruit on a non-daily basis. Lots of green vegetables and fish on a regular basis. Regular magnesium soaks (epsom salt baths).

 

ETA-- Part of the structure I provide, is that I make decisions. This is true with the ADD adults in my life as well (more true with them actually--I want the kids to stretch that muscle as often as possible, but the adults are hamstrung some--not all the-time by choice overwhelm). They make all the decisions they can, and I make the rest. That sounds...obvious.... but you'd be surprised at how often someone stands in front of a person with ADD and offers them a hundred and three choices, and then is surprised when they are still standing there four hours later. So, if my ADD says "I want pepperoni pizza," great! Pep pizza it is. If they say, "I want pizza," I do NOT ask them to tell me what kin of pizza they want.  Or if I do ask, I wait twenty seconds, and just decide if they don't come up with something. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by OKBud

[Faithr]

Be careful with the caffeine.  My son gets tachycardia from stimulants.  I agree with Okbud.  Exercise has been proven to be just as effective!  Lots and lots of physical activity, a regular routine to the day, don't demand a lot of sit down work, instead stand up and write things out on a white board, do lessons orally,  short lessons.

 

Neither of my sons could do meds.  It was hard but they learned to compensate.  My oldest now (24) does drink coffee, but he hated it when he was young.  My 18 yo with the tachycardia, doesn't though.  He does struggle still with focus and needs lots of coaching.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Be careful with the caffeine.  My son gets tachycardia from stimulants.  I agree with Okbud.  Exercise has been proven to be just as effective!  Lots and lots of physical activity, a regular routine to the day, don't demand a lot of sit down work, instead stand up and write things out on a white board, do lessons orally,  short lessons.

 

Neither of my sons could do meds.  It was hard but they learned to compensate.  My oldest now (24) does drink coffee, but he hated it when he was young.  My 18 yo with the tachycardia, doesn't though.  He does struggle still with focus and needs lots of coaching.

 

Tachycardia is why my dd can't use stimulant meds.  But she does do fairly well on self-regulated doses of caffeine.  She goes to the gym and that helps her too. But she is in a brick and mortar school and sometimes needs some help to focus because the academic classes are 80 minutes long. I bought her mints with caffeine and B vitamins for emergencies like tests and such. They have the equivalent of 1/2 a cup of coffee's worth of caffeine.

[bethben]

Dianne craft supplement regimen.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gardenmom5]

I do not (read: will not) use caffeine with mine. If they were in school...maybe. But they are not.

 

What I do do is provide predictable structure, and within that predictable structure,

 

thanks - but that does zip for the ability to focus on what he is supposed to be doing - his thoughts are a jumble and he can't make them cohesive.  that's why I was asking for suggestions.  structure for that - is irrelevant.  I have to sit him next to me and do every single  thought process and walk him through.  

 

his strongest diagnosis is asd.  anxiety is part of that - and one of the biggest things we tackled earlier.  the add is comorbid (lessor) than that.

[Guest]

thanks - but

 

his strongest diagnosis is asd.  anxiety is part of that - and one of the biggest things we tackled earlier.  the add is comorbid (lessor) than that.

 

Ah, OK. Then straightforward ADD suggestions in general probably won't be very helpful, not just mine :laugh:

 

I mean there are things people take...fish oil, Sam E, inositol, stimulants, probiotics, nootropics....

[gardenmom5]

Dianne craft supplement regimen.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm doing similar already with his ND.  I'm trying to get more specifics off her site.

 

so - researching.

 

thank you.

[maize]

Physical activity is big for my kids, they need to be really active for at least an hour every day.

[maize]

We have some supplements we are using but I can't really say if and to what degree they help so I'm hesitant to make recommendations. Basically I'm in the same boat as you--trying to find something that helps. One of mine is on a stimulant medication and that has made more difference so far than any supplements we have tried.

[Faithr]

Was he diagnosed ADD?  Does your doctor have any non-med recommendations?  That's where I would go first.  Exercise does help with focus, structure does help with focus. Things like chewing gum while doing seatwork helps with focus.  How old is he?  Growing up also helps with focus!

 

I had to sit next to my oldest son through high school  We were seriously afraid that he wouldn't be able to make it in college.  However, that turned out to be good training for him!  He just needed years and years of training in terms of how to cope with focus and details.  Fortunately, he overfocuses on music and he went to a music conservatory.  Hopefully my 18 yo will follow suit, but he also has spectrum and depression issues.  For him actually, he focused better after getting on sertraline, though that isn't specifically an ADD med, but his depression and anxiety were also causing problems.  He is still ADD but not quite as bad.  

 

Hang in there!

[gardenmom5]

Was he diagnosed ADD?  Does your doctor have any non-med recommendations?  That's where I would go first.  Exercise does help with focus, structure does help with focus. Things like chewing gum while doing seatwork helps with focus.  How old is he?  Growing up also helps with focus!

 

I had to sit next to my oldest son through high school  We were seriously afraid that he wouldn't be able to make it in college.  However, that turned out to be good training for him!  He just needed years and years of training in terms of how to cope with focus and details.  Fortunately, he overfocuses on music and he went to a music conservatory.  Hopefully my 18 yo will follow suit, but he also has spectrum and depression issues.  For him actually, he focused better after getting on sertraline, though that isn't specifically an ADD med, but his depression and anxiety were also causing problems.  He is still ADD but not quite as bad.  

 

Hang in there!

 

he's had the full work up at the children's clinic associated with our medical school.

primary is asd, with strong anxiety

WITH

ocd,

add

odd

 

he's been being treated by a ND (has made incredibly progress) - she is willing to rec' rx - but only as a last resort and she refers for that.

 

the speech clinic diagnosed him with

capd

[Faithr]

Poor kid!  He really got hit!  I would just operate on the assumption that he is going to need a course of study designed just for him.  I don't know how much you've looked into this, but he probably just won't be able to sit and do workbook stuff, multi-step problems, etc without lots of accommodating.  Grade levels might not make sense for him.

 

There's a book on classical ed with special needs at Memoria Press.  Maybe reading stuff along these lines might help you come up with alternatives to RX?

 

https://www.memoriapress.com/curriculum/special-needs/simply-classical/

 

Anyway, best wishes.  I remember being so overwhelmed with my kids' difficulties.  Even a year ago my now 18 yo seemed so difficult, but things have leveled out and gotten better.  

[blondeviolin]

My son comes back so happy after swim. If he could swim an hour before school, things would be so much better.

 

He's never really had focus issues but the strict structure we run so I can fit everyone in a decent time helps. I also dangle a carrot for their break so he will work towards that.

[BlsdMama]

I think what you are saying is that you've found something that works?  If so, do it.  Have you read Dr. Amen's books?

 

I always said, " I will never...."

It worked awesome for MY kids up to DS #2.

Then I had to get out of my, "I will never..." for HIS sake.  Now I am a big fan of do what works so that she/he can be a strong, capable,educated, functional adult who thrives.  Seriously.

 

#noguiltmama

[PeterPan]

he's had the full work up at the children's clinic associated with our medical school.

primary is asd, with strong anxiety

WITH

ocd,

add

odd

 

he's been being treated by a ND (has made incredibly progress) - she is willing to rec' rx - but only as a last resort and she refers for that.

 

the speech clinic diagnosed him with

capd

 

The amount of caffeine you use for improving the ADHD without actually stimulating them overall is *very* very tiny. Like for my dd, at an adult weight (she's tall, so say 160, I forget), it was basically 1 No Doze. If you do a cup of coffee, you're actually getting more than you need. And since a "cup" of coffee is technically 6 oz, not the 12oz of many people's mugs, you're actually getting way, way more.  Add to that the sugar, and it can explain adverse effects. 

 

There are articles online about dosing the caffeine, but basically it's very small. Also, caffeine only works one part of the brain. Stimulant meds *do* improve CAPD symptoms in some kids. It's enough that if your trial with caffeine shows benefit I would move over to prescription meds. The stimulant meds may make a SIGNIFICANT effect on the CAPD symptoms.

 

If you do a caffeine trial, using the small doses based on articles you find online, and he becomes more aggressive, then assume he doesn't have the flip. Psychs have gone back and forth on my ds, with some calling it ADHD on top of his ASD and some not. Well our ped did the Quotient, talked things through with us for an hour, and he doesn't see it. He says our symptoms are straight ASD. Ds actually becomes more irritable on caffeine, not calmer and easier.

 

So definitely a caffeine trial is wise. In theory (looking at the components) pumpkin seeds can help. You want them raw. But you aren't going to be eating enough to make a huge dent. If he responds well to the caffeine, I'd just get the prescription meds and be done with it. He's probably not able to explain, because of the ASD, all the things going on in his brain. The caffeine only stimulates one part, and the meds will hit two. The meds will be smoother and last longer. With that CAPD, he'll be a safer driver with an extended release med. It will be there all day, helping him tolerate background noise. Could change his life, honestly. It's not enough to say you were afraid to try. There's a big gap there between straight ADHD and adding in the other things. Those meds could literally change his life, and you won't know till you try. 

 

But I'd definitely do the caffeine trial first.  And fwiw, I'm very, very organic, healthfully minded, etc. I can argue why we don't need meds all day long, how we can accommodate, blah blah. I'm just saying, in your case, they could be life-changing with that CAPD and increasing his ability to function in noisy situations. That would be worth a lot.

 

Adding: If he doesn't seem to have the caffeine flip and find stimulants calming, then you still have the mood side to run down. You could work on the anxiety component with an anti-depressant. Someone was just saying you can use a non-stimulant med for anxiety as well. You can also have kids who have over-methylation issues causing behaviors, and they can respond well to niacin, the totally opposite approach. So it's just more rabbit trails to run down if you hit dead ends.

Edited March 14, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[gardenmom5]

The amount of caffeine you use for improving the ADHD without actually stimulating them overall is *very* very tiny. Like for my dd, at an adult weight (she's tall, so say 160, I forget), it was basically 1 No Doze. If you do a cup of coffee, you're actually getting more than you need. And since a "cup" of coffee is technically 6 oz, not the 12oz of many people's mugs, you're actually getting way, way more.  Add to that the sugar, and it can explain adverse effects. 

 

There are articles online about dosing the caffeine, but basically it's very small. Also, caffeine only works one part of the brain. Stimulant meds *do* improve CAPD symptoms in some kids. It's enough that if your trial with caffeine shows benefit I would move over to prescription meds. The stimulant meds may make a SIGNIFICANT effect on the CAPD symptoms.

 

If you do a caffeine trial, using the small doses based on articles you find online, and he becomes more aggressive, then assume he doesn't have the flip. Psychs have gone back and forth on my ds, with some calling it ADHD on top of his ASD and some not. Well our ped did the Quotient, talked things through with us for an hour, and he doesn't see it. He says our symptoms are straight ASD. Ds actually becomes more irritable on caffeine, not calmer and easier.

 

So definitely a caffeine trial is wise. In theory (looking at the components) pumpkin seeds can help. You want them raw. But you aren't going to be eating enough to make a huge dent. If he responds well to the caffeine, I'd just get the prescription meds and be done with it. He's probably not able to explain, because of the ASD, all the things going on in his brain. The caffeine only stimulates one part, and the meds will hit two. The meds will be smoother and last longer. With that CAPD, he'll be a safer driver with an extended release med. It will be there all day, helping him tolerate background noise. Could change his life, honestly. It's not enough to say you were afraid to try. There's a big gap there between straight ADHD and adding in the other things. Those meds could literally change his life, and you won't know till you try. 

 

But I'd definitely do the caffeine trial first.  And fwiw, I'm very, very organic, healthfully minded, etc. I can argue why we don't need meds all day long, how we can accommodate, blah blah. I'm just saying, in your case, they could be life-changing with that CAPD and increasing his ability to function in noisy situations. That would be worth a lot.

 

Adding: If he doesn't seem to have the caffeine flip and find stimulants calming, then you still have the mood side to run down. You could work on the anxiety component with an anti-depressant. Someone was just saying you can use a non-stimulant med for anxiety as well. You can also have kids who have over-methylation issues causing behaviors, and they can respond well to niacin, the totally opposite approach. So it's just more rabbit trails to run down if you hit dead ends.

 

he's 100lbs - so that's about 1/2 a no doze.  we don't drink coffee.  and it would just be for a trial (especially as it only stimulates one-part).

 

his ND has been phenomenal in the progress he's made - we just disagree on the cause for his lack of focus. (and his allopathic ped was beyond worthless and UNhelpful.  i'd been taking kids to him for 25+ years, and he was terribly dismissive.  enough, and we were gone.)

 

I don't have an issue with rx - (I have a dd with a pharmd), but I'd rather make sure the problem is fixed vs a bandaid (btdt with another child, the rx made things worse.  fixing the pinched nerve fixed it.)

 

ok - what do you mean by the caffeine flip?  flipping on the ability to focus?

he's not hyper.

 

the methylation is interesting . .  he's on 15mgs of mthf (thorne equivalent - I don't like Deplin).  he's heterozygous.  she had him on nicotinamide (niacel from throne) for possible over-methylation - which is hideously expensive.  I wonder if I could get away with Niacinamide (much more affordable). . .. off to do research . . .

[Katy]

Hard exercise, caffeine, keeping screen time to a minimum.  I'm terrible at the 3rd thing.