Not excited about FLL3. Thoughts after FLL2?

[hisforhomeschooling]

Going from 5-10 minutes a day with First Language Lessons 2 to several exercises for level 3 seems like a really big jump and I'm not sure it is where I want us to go next year. What have other people done after FLL2 to keep grammar gentle but still keep moving forward? I don't mind sentence diagramming, I just want to keep it something that is short and fun-ish, and doing 2 pages of grammar exercises at 7 or 8 years old will not be short or fun-ish. I like the mostly oral nature of FLL in levels 1 and 2. 

 

Thanks! 

[ScoutTN]

We didn't find it to be a huge difference, honestly. Still very gentle. We do 10-15 minutes, 3x a week, just the straight grammar lessons. It still has a significant oral element because we work on the definitions. I am comfortable teaching grammar snd don't need the scripting. I like the continuity with FLL 1-4 and my 6th grader jumped from FLL 4 to R&S 6 easily.

We used the old combo book for 1 & 2. I had one very young 3rd grader and one red-shirted one.

 

Eta: I see your student is possibly only 7 while doing FLL 3. 2nd grader? Maybe just review and apply what you've already covered.

 

You might try it before you jump ship. ;)

Edited March 12, 2017 by ScoutTN

[Erica in OR]

FLL 3 didn't exist back when my oldest finished FLL 2. We went into Rod & Staff 3, pretty much all orally except the diagramming.

 

Erica in OR

[Miss Tick]

I heavily edit out the redundant lessons. If my student knows the definition they recite it and don't belabor it. We learn the new diagramming principle and then I have my aren't construct the frame and diagram one sentence and we call it good.

 

BUT if you really want something different we have done both Sentence Family and Grammarland for variety.

[Upennmama]

We didn't find it to be a big jump- it still only takes 5-10 minutes unless it's one of the longer lessons (rare) and I sometimes split those up.

[SilverMoon]

We loved FLL 1 and 2, but 3 just doesn't work out in this house.

 

Mine went to Rod and Staff English 3.

[blondeviolin]

It's not as big of a jump as you think. I like FLL 1 and 2 but ADORE 3 and 4.

 

There's Rod and Staff or Voyages in English.

[Hunter]

Have you seen the AO language arts scope and sequence?

https://www.amblesideonline.org/LangArtsScopeSeq.shtml

 

There is a lot of grammar that I don't think needs to be taught before a student is demonstrating signs of logic level thinking.

[hisforhomeschooling]

We didn't find it to be a huge difference, honestly. Still very gentle. We do 10-15 minutes, 3x a week, just the straight grammar lessons. It still has a significant oral element because we work on the definitions. I am comfortable teaching grammar snd don't need the scripting. I like the continuity with FLL 1-4 and my 6th grader jumped from FLL 4 to R&S 6 easily.

We used the old combo book for 1 & 2. I had one very young 3rd grader and one red-shirted one.

 

Eta: I see your student is possibly only 7 while doing FLL 3. 2nd grader? Maybe just review and apply what you've already covered.

 

You might try it before you jump ship. ;)

 

Thanks for the thoughts! Our oldest is turning 8 in Oct and will be going into 3rd grade. I'm glad to know it's still gentle. I will keep thinking about it!

 

FLL 3 didn't exist back when my oldest finished FLL 2. We went into Rod & Staff 3, pretty much all orally except the diagramming.

 

Erica in OR

 

Thanks, Erica! 

 

I heavily edit out the redundant lessons. If my student knows the definition they recite it and don't belabor it. We learn the new diagramming principle and then I have my aren't construct the frame and diagram one sentence and we call it good.

 

BUT if you really want something different we have done both Sentence Family and Grammarland for variety.

 

Thanks, Susan! That's kind of how I am handling Math Mammoth 1 with my 2nd son. We don't do all the problems and nobody cries, haha!

 

We didn't find it to be a big jump- it still only takes 5-10 minutes unless it's one of the longer lessons (rare) and I sometimes split those up.

 

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

We loved FLL 1 and 2, but 3 just doesn't work out in this house.

 

Mine went to Rod and Staff English 3.

 

Thanks! What about FLL3 didn't work? What about RS was better?

 

It's not as big of a jump as you think. I like FLL 1 and 2 but ADORE 3 and 4.

 

There's Rod and Staff or Voyages in English.

 

Thanks for chiming in! What did you adore about FLL3 and FLL4?

 

Have you seen the AO language arts scope and sequence?

https://www.amblesideonline.org/LangArtsScopeSeq.shtml

 

There is a lot of grammar that I don't think needs to be taught before a student is demonstrating signs of logic level thinking.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Another Lynn]

Actually, I liked FLL 3 more than 1 or 2. It felt like we were finally getting somewhere.

[SilverMoon]

Thanks! What about FLL3 didn't work? What about RS was better?

 

 

FLL 3 is *entirely* mom dependent and one size fits all. They can't do anything without the scripted instructions in the TM. There's never really a point you can say, "Okay, now you do the exercises on your own while I step aside." At first it went well as they got used to the format, and then it was like nails on a chalkboard. I've used it with three kids. The current 11th grader used the whole book when it was brand new, barely. She would have committed mutiny if I'd ordered book 4 and went off to big brother's R&S. Assuming it was just her hang up I started using it with the next two kids. We made it about a quarter through before we decided to just pick up R&S instead.

 

R&S can be used just as mom dependent if that's what you prefer. It can be used totally independent if that's what you prefer. Or any unique blend of the two. The student text has ALL the concept explanations and instructions in it. The TM has an oral quiz on previous concepts, a scripted plan for teaching the new concept, a full view of the student page, and a complete answer key. There's a booklet with chapter tests and another with extra practice pages. You pick the parts and pieces that work best for you and yours. For one kid that was having him read the lesson, teach the concept back to me, and running through the exercises mostly orally. For another it was just doing the oral/class section with mom and doing the rest on paper. I only really used the extra practice pages for punctuation lessons, and I did like having the chapter tests (forced lesson in reading directions LOL). Book 3 is very snuggle-on-the-couch-with-Mom friendly (bring a small whiteboard for diagrams).

[hisforhomeschooling]

FLL 3 is *entirely* mom dependent and one size fits all. They can't do anything without the scripted instructions in the TM. There's never really a point you can say, "Okay, now you do the exercises on your own while I step aside." At first it went well as they got used to the format, and then it was like nails on a chalkboard. I've used it with three kids. The current 11th grader used the whole book when it was brand new, barely. She would have committed mutiny if I'd ordered book 4 and went off to big brother's R&S. Assuming it was just her hang up I started using it with the next two kids. We made it about a quarter through before we decided to just pick up R&S instead.

 

R&S can be used just as mom dependent if that's what you prefer. It can be used totally independent if that's what you prefer. Or any unique blend of the two. The student text has ALL the concept explanations and instructions in it. The TM has an oral quiz on previous concepts, a scripted plan for teaching the new concept, a full view of the student page, and a complete answer key. There's a booklet with chapter tests and another with extra practice pages. You pick the parts and pieces that work best for you and yours. For one kid that was having him read the lesson, teach the concept back to me, and running through the exercises mostly orally. For another it was just doing the oral/class section with mom and doing the rest on paper. I only really used the extra practice pages for punctuation lessons, and I did like having the chapter tests (forced lesson in reading directions LOL). Book 3 is very snuggle-on-the-couch-with-Mom friendly (bring a small whiteboard for diagrams).

So, I was looking at RS. It's grammar and composition, right? Would it replace FLL and WWE or just FLL? Thanks!

[8Arrows4theLord]

You could replace both with R&S, but you may not get as much in depth writing instruction as the WWE series offers nor the benefits of ready to go copy work/ narration. I've used R&S for years and love it for my older ones, but am using FLL 2 & WWE 1 with my younger son. He has problems transferring work over from a book, so FLL has been a good fit.

  We haven't gotten to FLL3 yet. What don't you like about it? My DS is doing so well with FLL, I am hesitant to switch, but I was wondering how it was set up compared to our R&S 3 book. I'm looking forward to replies to your thread.

[SilverMoon]

So, I was looking at RS. It's grammar and composition, right? Would it replace FLL and WWE or just FLL? Thanks!

R&S replaces composition *if* you are writing out the grammar exercises. That's where the copywork is. The direct composition instruction is in its own lessons, usually marked off with a different border around the pages. If you're not doing much of the actual pencil to paper you may want a separate composition book.

[hisforhomeschooling]

You could replace both with R&S, but you may not get as much in depth writing instruction as the WWE series offers nor the benefits of ready to go copy work/ narration. I've used R&S for years and love it for my older ones, but am using FLL 2 & WWE 1 with my younger son. He has problems transferring work over from a book, so FLL has been a good fit.

  We haven't gotten to FLL3 yet. What don't you like about it? My DS is doing so well with FLL, I am hesitant to switch, but I was wondering how it was set up compared to our R&S 3 book. I'm looking forward to replies to your thread.

 

I love FLL 1&2. We haven't done 3 yet. I'm researching for next year and was looking at the samples for FLL3 and felt like it looked overwhelming. Since WTM recommends R&S from 5th grade-10th grade, I was trying to decide if I just switch now, or if I continue. It kind of sounds like it is a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other situation, though. 

 

R&S replaces composition *if* you are writing out the grammar exercises. That's where the copywork is. The direct composition instruction is in its own lessons, usually marked off with a different border around the pages. If you're not doing much of the actual pencil to paper you may want a separate composition book.

 

What would you have language arts look like for 3rd grade? I am having so much trouble figuring this out. This year, for 2nd grade, DS1 is doing Memoria Press for reading, reading comp, and vocab, Evan Moor for spelling, WWE for writing, and FLL for grammar. I would like to keep those components of language arts. He really enjoys the books from MP, so I am thinking of keeping that for reading, reading comp, and vocab. I think EM is working for spelling. I am just trying to figure out writing and grammar. I haven't bought any of our LA curriculum, though, so I am not 100% committed to anything yet. I am also trying to combine him whenever possible with his very bright but way less motivated brother, DS2, who will be doing 1st/2nd grade work next year at 6yo. Thanks so much for your thoughts. 

[mamaraby]

Actually, I liked FLL 3 more than 1 or 2. It felt like we were finally getting somewhere.

Same here. I *vastly* prefer FLL3 to the earlier books. I think FLL1 is probably my least favorite of the four and I'm looking forward to May when I will complete my third and final trip through the book.

[blondeviolin]

Thanks for chiming in! What did you adore about FLL3 and FLL4?

 

 

I feel like 3 and 4 are the point your kid is chanting and memorizing all of that stuff from 1 and 2.  1 and 2 are SO REPETITIVE.  In all honesty, most of my kids don't need that much repetition, but we do all of it because it's what's "easy" and "fun" while they work on other things.  They remember all of the definitions and lists but have absolutely no real clue what they're saying.  What first grader really understands state of being?  3 and 4 is where all of that comes together.

 

With regards to some saying it's completely Mom-driven, I feel like it mostly is, yes.  BUT!  I have no problem looking at the exercise, figuring out the main point of it, and then giving the kid the assignment as a whole rather than broken-down bits.  Again, my kids don't need all of the repetition, so with a few bits of practice, they have no problem if I say, "Okay, diagram that whole set while I go do XYZ."

[mamaraby]

With regards to some saying it's completely Mom-driven, I feel like it mostly is, yes. BUT! I have no problem looking at the exercise, figuring out the main point of it, and then giving the kid the assignment as a whole rather than broken-down bits. Again, my kids don't need all of the repetition, so with a few bits of practice, they have no problem if I say, "Okay, diagram that whole set while I go do XYZ."

With my ds, one needed the repetition. Then again, on his Hake6 test the other day he said appointed was a linking verb and Germany was an adjective so...ya know...there's that...

 

With my dd, when it comes to the diagramming portion, I usually walk her through the first one and leave her to do the rest of the sentences on her own. I can also rock making dinner and doing a grammar lesson at the same time. Just prop the book up and try not to cut my finger off.

 

But yeah, having all that repetition in the first two years does help with you get to 3/4.

[SilverMoon]

I love FLL 1&2. We haven't done 3 yet. I'm researching for next year and was looking at the samples for FLL3 and felt like it looked overwhelming. Since WTM recommends R&S from 5th grade-10th grade, I was trying to decide if I just switch now, or if I continue. It kind of sounds like it is a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other situation, though. 

 

 

What would you have language arts look like for 3rd grade? I am having so much trouble figuring this out. This year, for 2nd grade, DS1 is doing Memoria Press for reading, reading comp, and vocab, Evan Moor for spelling, WWE for writing, and FLL for grammar. I would like to keep those components of language arts. He really enjoys the books from MP, so I am thinking of keeping that for reading, reading comp, and vocab. I think EM is working for spelling. I am just trying to figure out writing and grammar. I haven't bought any of our LA curriculum, though, so I am not 100% committed to anything yet. I am also trying to combine him whenever possible with his very bright but way less motivated brother, DS2, who will be doing 1st/2nd grade work next year at 6yo. Thanks so much for your thoughts. 

 

It really is just personal preference. Decide which style you like and roll with it. BOTH FLL and R&S are solid choices and teach well.

 

My current third grader is using Treasured Conversations for writing and grammar this year. She's also using Spelling by Sound and Structure 3 (R&S), and reads high quality children's literature daily and discusses it with me. We don't use literature guides or separate vocab studies, nor any reading program beyond learning how to read. For 4th grade she'll probably go back to R&S English, School Composition by Maxwell since we won't do enough of the writing in R&S, spelling 4, and reading even more good children's literature.

[carriede]

I love FLL 1&2. We haven't done 3 yet. I'm researching for next year and was looking at the samples for FLL3 and felt like it looked overwhelming. Since WTM recommends R&S from 5th grade-10th grade, I was trying to decide if I just switch now, or if I continue. It kind of sounds like it is a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other situation, though.

 

Just FYI, I haven't used FLL3 yet but have done 1 and 2. I do have possession on FLL3 and think it looks MUCH simpler than the samples.

[ScoutTN]

 

What would you have language arts look like for 3rd grade? 

 

 

I'd say the essentials are:

 

Literature 

Grammar 

Spelling

Composition

 

Some people would include penmanship.

 

Read the 3rd grade planning thread to see many ways that could look!

R&S and FLL are both excellent choices. Choose one and go with it. Don't stress! If it doesn't work well, you can change. 

 

I chose FLL for 3rd because we had done well with FLL 1 and 2. If it ain't broke...

My other choices were WWE 3,  AAS 3-4, and lots of good books.

 

My older student writes well and got bored with WWE, so did half of it and then CAP's Fable. My current 3rd grader is fine with WWE.

 

My kids learned cursive in 2nd, so in 3rd make a transition to doing all of their work in cursive. We do poetry memorization, but not tied to a curriculum. I find vocabulary books to be unnecessary busywork. 

[Maryam]

We are also enjoying FLL 3 a lot more than FLL 2. It doesn't take us much time at all. We use it for grammar only and skip narrations because we get plenty in WWE. Once you're familiar enough you can modify the script to suit you.

 

 

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