extendedforecast Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Because they are an interracial couple and she is Asian.Okay, so it's icky to assume that it's more likely she was the help rather than his wife? Because why? I'm sorry for being so obtuse. I just can't wrap my mind around why offense would be taken if everyone was making an honest mistake. I used to joke that people probably mistook me for the nanny when my older kids were preschool aged. I was in my early twenties, 110 pounds, and much tanner than my kids who mostly took after their dad in looks and skin color (he's white, I'm white Hispanic). I would never have been offended by that, because that is the reality of where I live. Many upper middle class kids in my area have nannies because both parents work. And the majority of those nannies were Hispanic or Asian, though their ages ranged from 20-50's. Now on the other hand, with the example above about how someone was mistaken for the cleaner I can see how offensive that is. I wonder if it's because a nanny in some ways takes on the role of the mother as caretaker while the mom is absent, while the job of cleaner is so far removed from journalist. I don't know. I have to think about why one bothers me and the other doesn't. The race of the mother and the fact that they are an interracial couple wasn't a factor in my thinking. I live in a very diverse city with lots of interracial dating and marriage. Edited March 16, 2017 by extendedforecast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Another thought. If she were "white" and people assumed she was the nanny, would there be all this hubbub about that part of it? Good question! I think I would have had the same thought process- first I assumed it was the mom, then I said to myself, "Oh shoot, is that the nanny?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Another thought. If she were "white" and people assumed she was the nanny, would there be all this hubbub about that part of it? I doubt it. If they thought that, it would likely be because she looked younger, I think, people think of that as positive. If older they might have guessed grandma. Looking younger is seen as good, so ok for people to think tat. Looking like an employee, people don't like - it's classist, essentially, an nanny is seen as having less status than a wife. Although really, I think people are uncomfortable that sometimes ethnicity correlates to a chance a particular person may be in one roll as opposed to another. But, it is pretty tricky to get around the reality of that. If you are an Indian in parts of Africa, or a European living in Japan, there are good guesses people can make about what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) I doubt it. If they thought that, it would likely be because she looked younger, I think, people think of that as positive. If older they might have guessed grandma. Looking younger is seen as good, so ok for people to think tat. Looking like an employee, people don't like - it's classist, essentially, an nanny is seen as having less status than a wife. Although really, I think people are uncomfortable that sometimes ethnicity correlates to a chance a particular person may be in one roll as opposed to another. But, it is pretty tricky to get around the reality of that. If you are an Indian in parts of Africa, or a European living in Japan, there are good guesses people can make about what you do. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that most nannies in Korea are non-white. Just because it's Korea. Or if that is not the case, at least it is a reasonable assumption for those of us who have not been to Korea. I also wonder why I'm supposed to assume that the mother is the person tending the kids while the dad works. Not knowing what time it was in Korea at the time of the interview, the wife of a professional may very well be a professional herself, off working while a nanny tends the kids. Why not? I would also note that nannies are very common even for middle-class people in many developing countries, because labor is very cheap. My ex-nanny is from Honduras, and when she was a mom of 4 in Honduras, she had a nanny. So it is not unthinkable that the family has a nanny whether or not they are rich or a dual-income family, and regardless of the wife's race. (I don't know if that holds true in Korea, but again, it is not a "disgusting" idea to think maybe.) ETA I realize South Korea is a relatively developed country, and I have no idea how they do domestic labor there, but expecting everyone around the world to be informed in these regards is not quite realistic. Edited March 16, 2017 by SKL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Okay, so it's icky to assume that it's more likely she was the help rather than his wife? Because why? I'm sorry for being so obtuse. I just can't wrap my mind around why offense would be taken if everyone was making an honest mistake. I used to joke that people probably mistook me for the nanny when my older kids were preschool aged. I was in my early twenties, 110 pounds, and much tanner than my kids who mostly took after their dad in looks and skin color (he's white, I'm white Hispanic). I would never have been offended by that, because that is the reality of where I live. Many upper middle class kids in my area have nannies because both parents work. And the majority of those nannies were Hispanic or Asian, though their ages ranged from 20-50's. Now on the other hand, with the example above about how someone was mistaken for the cleaner I can see how offensive that is. I wonder if it's because a nanny in some ways takes on the role of the mother as caretaker while the mom is absent, while the job of cleaner is so far removed from journalist. I don't know. I have to think about why one bothers me and the other doesn't. The race of the mother and the fact that they are an interracial couple wasn't a factor in my thinking. I live in a very diverse city with lots of interracial dating and marriage. Personally , I don't see a huge distinction between nanny and cleaner-- hired help/staff. I have both in my family and they are both just jobs. I didn't say the assumption was offensive , though. I really don't think it is. I think I said 'a bit icky '. It's really not a big deal . ETA, to clarify , I have a cousin who is a nanny and an aunt who does cleaning . I do not haven't a nanny or cleaner on my payroll (though that'd be nice). Edited March 16, 2017 by poppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think the journalist who was mistaken for cleaning help was offended because she is proud to be a journalist and views the job of cleaning to be less than. That is her internal issue. Both are just jobs and do not assign value to a humans worth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think the journalist who was mistaken for cleaning help was offended because she is proud to be a journalist and views the job of cleaning to be less than. That is her internal issue. Both are just jobs and do not assign value to a humans worth. That's right. I was thinking that if I were the journalist I might be offended because anyone can clean, but one needs a higher skillset to be a journalist So being mistaken for the lower skilled job because of my race/ethnicity after I worked hard to obtain those skills would be irritating, because on some level I would wonder if people think that I'm not capable of being a journalist because of my skin color. It's an internal issue as you said. And I agree that a person's job does not define their value as a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I've been mistaken for all sorts of things (occupation-wise), and I just find it amusing. I was thinking though - I wonder if, in South Korea, the occupation of nanny or household help is culturally disrespected. In that case, I could understand the wife feeling offended. But I got the impression it was outsiders deciding that she should be offended. The topic of how cultures view occupations is interesting. I was proud of the many different kinds of hands-on work I'd done when I entered grad school. I learned that some of my foreign-born friends found it embarrassing that I had been a factory worker, a geriatric nurses' aide, etc. I was advised not to tell people as they would think less of me. It was eye-opening. Although we do have some level of classism etc. in the USA, it's less than many other places. For the most part we believe in the dignity of hard work and just doing the best at whatever you do. And the other side of that is, we don't think it's off limits to wonder if someone is the professor's wife or nanny. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I don't get it either. I've been asked if I was a nanny at the playground and some other places. I'm not offended by it. Most people in higher income professional circles tend to presume both parents work and thus daytime care giver is usually a nanny. That's the only reason I initially thought she might be a nanny. It had nothing to do with her skin tint. I don't assume every woman I see in the daytime hours is a nanny if she is near a child? I guess it's all where you live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabelen Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The little girl looked very biracial to me so I immediately thought mom, but then again I am in a biracial marriage with biracial kids in a very diverse area. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The little girl looked very biracial to me so I immediately thought mom, but then again I am in a biracial marriage with biracial kids in a very diverse area. That's funny. I didn't notice she was biracial. Then again I watched it on my tiny phone screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I don't assume every woman I see in the daytime hours is a nanny if she is near a child? I guess it's all where you live. One extreme to another. I didn't say I presume it of every woman I see during the daylight. But if I thought someone had a two professional income household I might think that. And big whoop if I did. It's not an insult or a slur to be suspected of being a nanny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 That's funny. I didn't notice she was biracial. Then again I watched it on my tiny phone screen. I didn't notice it either. I didn't notice the mom was a different ethnicity until it was pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 One extreme to another. I didn't say I presume it of every woman I see during the daylight. But if I thought someone had a two professional income household I might think that. And big whoop if I did. It's not an insult or a slur to be suspected of being a nanny. Sure. It's OK to be a nanny. If someone mistook you for a nanny you wouldn't mind. I get it. This whole conversation makes you defensive. I don't know why exactly. But I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Sure. It's OK to be a nanny. If someone mistook you for a nanny you wouldn't mind. I get it. This whole conversation makes you defensive. I don't know why exactly. But I get it. What? *confused* I'm not at all defensive. Someone said they don't get this issue and I said I don't either and why I don't. I don't understand what the issue is enough to be defensive about it. lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 The little girl looked very biracial to me so I immediately thought mom, but then again I am in a biracial marriage with biracial kids in a very diverse area. Same. I'm also in a nanny heavy area, but that lady moved like a mom! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 It is so funny! I was a nanny. I am not insulted that anyone thought she was a nanny. I am a mom. I am not insulted that anyone thought she was a mom. I do not think we need to make this into some kind of big deal issue. It just the reality of working from home - nanny or mom. The kids are awesome! I hope the little girl remains a free spirit and can freely dance into any room she enters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Another thought. If she were "white" and people assumed she was the nanny, would there be all this hubbub about that part of it? I doubt so. I do think part of the annoyance was from the legacy of colonial supremacy in Asia. When "whites" were the privileged class. Even my parents generation can tell life stories of class systems before independence. Korean friends my age and older associate "white" with the division of Korea into North and South. "Japan ruled Korea from 1910 until the Japanese surrendered after World War Two in 1945. Afterwards, Soviet troops occupied the area north of the 38th parallel, and US troops the south." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-36261792 Below is what my parents and grandparents generations felt under colonialism. "Colonialism is linked with the idea that the way of life of the colonizers are better than that of the colonized. “White Man’s Burden†Rudyard Kipling coined the term Englishmen Cecil Rhodes, "I contend that we Britons are the first race in the world, and the more of the world we inhabit, the better it is for the human race. I believe it is my duty to God, my Queen, and my country..." White Supremacy: whites are supreme beings The supposed or presumed responsibility of white people to govern and impart their culture to nonwhite people, often advanced as a justification for European colonialism. Duty to spread the ways of the superior beings to inferior beings with inferior ways of living Devaluation of indigenous cultures “Civilizing Missionâ€: Bring Civilization to the “uncivilized world†http://www.seasite.niu.edu/crossroads/ty/COLONIALISM_%20IN_SE%20ASIA.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I doubt so. I do think part of the annoyance was from the legacy of colonial supremacy in Asia. When "whites" were the privileged class. Even my parents generation can tell life stories of class systems before independence. Korean friends my age and older associate "white" with the division of Korea into North and South. "Japan ruled Korea from 1910 until the Japanese surrendered after World War Two in 1945. Afterwards, Soviet troops occupied the area north of the 38th parallel, and US troops the south." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-36261792 Below is what my parents and grandparents generations felt under colonialism. "Colonialism is linked with the idea that the way of life of the colonizers are better than that of the colonized. “White Man’s Burden†Rudyard Kipling coined the term Englishmen Cecil Rhodes, "I contend that we Britons are the first race in the world, and the more of the world we inhabit, the better it is for the human race. I believe it is my duty to God, my Queen, and my country..." White Supremacy: whites are supreme beings The supposed or presumed responsibility of white people to govern and impart their culture to nonwhite people, often advanced as a justification for European colonialism. Duty to spread the ways of the superior beings to inferior beings with inferior ways of living Devaluation of indigenous cultures “Civilizing Missionâ€: Bring Civilization to the “uncivilized world†http://www.seasite.niu.edu/crossroads/ty/COLONIALISM_%20IN_SE%20ASIA.htm So was it Asians who started the fuss about the "nanny" thing or was it westerners? I only saw Westerners talking about it, but obviously I am not seeing the whole picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) So was it Asians who started the fuss about the "nanny" thing or was it westerners? I only saw Westerners talking about it, but obviously I am not seeing the whole picture.I saw all races talking about it on Facebook and news sites. An article stated the lady is the mom but the bulk of the comments that followed the article was that the nanny would be fired. Which started a debate about stereotypes in the comments section. ETA: My newsfeed comes from four continents because of relatives and friends. Edited March 17, 2017 by Arcadia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 To be honest, she looked nothing like a teenager to me. Asian teens look younger. Plus she had a typical Asian mom figure. Teenagers are much thinnner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Bwahahaha... This spoof video shows how a WOMAN would have handled the scenario... https://youtu.be/-Ojvk-4IcOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 What? *confused* I'm not at all defensive. Someone said they don't get this issue and I said I don't either and why I don't. I don't understand what the issue is enough to be defensive about it. lol You have no opinion at all. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Bwahahaha... This spoof video shows how a WOMAN would have handled the scenario... https://youtu.be/-Ojvk-4IcOE Now that really made me laugh! Way too close to the reality of my life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 My assumption when this video first hit was that no one knew who it was definitively so reports said "woman". Some people thought "oh, not the wife then" and it went from there. Imo, better to err on the side of not saying "wife" in case it was a daughter or babysitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 To be honest, she looked nothing like a teenager to me. Asian teens look younger. Plus she had a typical Asian mom figure. Teenagers are much thinnner. And, from one stereotype to another. Asian teenagers come in all shapes and sizes too. Sure, the average is different from the American average, but they're not all the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 And, from one stereotype to another. Asian teenagers come in all shapes and sizes too. Sure, the average is different from the American average, but they're not all the same. Sure they do. But I'm not stereotyping. I live in Asia and, on the whole, teens are skinnier than Ms Kelly looked. As I said, she has a typical Asian mom figure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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