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Just a vent, I guess


egao_gakari
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Don't know what else to call it. Sometimes I just need to write it all out in order to organize my thoughts.

 

I married my DH last year and became stepmom to DD9 and DS11. Both kids were interested in homeschooling with me, but we weren't sure we could handle starting with both at once, so we agreed to do just one. It was going to be DS11 but in the summertime he suddenly gained an interest in trying out middle school, so we offered it to DD9. She was super excited about it, and it's gone really well with her since we began in September. 

 

Fast forward to December, DS11 began experiencing a recurrence of depression and suicidal thoughts that he had also been struggling with some time ago. The symptoms were worst at school. After consulting with DS's therapist and the school administration, DH decided to withdraw DS from school, de-school for a month, and then begin homeschooling in January.

 

So, I've now been homeschooling both of them for about 2 months. It took about that long for me to really get effective at teaching DD9, and this week has really been a watershed for me in my understanding of DS11.

 

Of the two of them, DS11 has always been regarded as the "bright" one. People make comments that he's "an old soul," that he seems much more mature than his age, that he is so smart. In school, where they gave separate grades for effort and results, DS' "effort" and "results" grades have always been low. DD9, on the other hand, is sweet and kind but has a reputation for being... airheaded I suppose. She loses the thread of conversations easily and has to ask really obvious questions to catch up, and she replaces vocabulary in odd ways. (The other day she said "perpendicular" when she meant "Protestant," she regularly says "taste bugs" instead of "taste buds" despite being corrected numerous times, and she will sometimes say, "OOOOH! I GET IT!" and then give an attempted summary of the previous 5 minutes of conversation that completely misses the point.) DH and I try not to tease her about this stuff, but her grandparents think it's just adorable and comment laughingly about it all the time. Her "effort" grades in school were the highest they could be, but her "results" grades were never correspondingly high.

 

Teaching DS has been a constant struggle for the last two months. While DD willingly does just about any work I tell her to whether she enjoys it or not, DS often seems to be dragging his feet. Up until this week, I've had the impression that this happens whenever the content of the class doesn't meet his standards of "interesting" or "worth my time." (Naturally, this has made me pretty pissy with him.) 

 

At DH's suggestion, I assigned a history project for them to complete last week. Anything they want so long as it shows me they've absorbed some information about the ancient Greeks. The project idea was supposed to get DS more engaged in history class, but it's actually DD who has gone to town on this thing. She has handwritten and illustrated a 6-page book detailing the life of Alexander the Great and handed it to me for correction--and it's not officially due until Monday! Meanwhile, DS has been working at a snail's pace. I gave him the rest of today to work on it, when I discovered that he has an outline (half of which was done by helpful DH) but hasn't written a word of the actual story yet. (DD, because of her hard work, gets the afternoon off.)

 

Apart from history, he has also been dragging his feet in Writing With Skill 1 (each of the "write a short composition based on this outline" assignments has taken him 3 days, so far) and he had a meltdown a few days ago when he kept failing The Bridge in Life of Fred: Fractions due to simple arithmetic errors and/or not reading the questions carefully enough.

 

I think this kid has been put at a serious disadvantage by a sort of... soft tyranny of other folks' HIGH expectations, just as his sister's extraordinary focus, determination and self-motivation have been consistently overlooked due to whatever weird quirk of brain mechanics makes her say silly things all the time. He's intuitive enough to figure out the answer to a question most of the time, and he's quicker on the uptake than she is when it comes to things like grammar--but when it comes to output of any kind, he is easily overwhelmed, sensitive to criticism, incapable of admitting when he's stumped, and embarrassed to have to do any work he considers beneath his level. Even when it's necessary remediation of skills he simply never mastered, like the times table.

 

So, I think I'm going to have to seriously revise my standards and expectations of work for him. I'm going to try being more hands-on with his WWS work for the next couple of weeks, and if that doesn't help him we'll go back and do Kilgallon--not as much output. No more history projects for a few months--no need to add output work to class I'd always envisioned as primarily input-focused anyway. Multiplication flashcards daily, and walking him through the Fred homework step-by-step for a while until he gets accustomed to setting up a problem correctly. It may be time to increase DD's assigned and free reading time from 30 to 45 minutes each, to give me a bit more one-on-one time with DS. I just don't think he's ready to do as much independent work as I've been assigning him.

 

Maybe the poor "effort" grades in school weren't ever about laziness (what I thought) or boredom (what DH thought), but actually about the inability to ask for help due to fear of being "discovered" not to be as "smart" as everyone thought.

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Depression is a lot more than just feeling, well, depressed. It can absolutely wreak havoc with processing, with focus and attention, with concentration. It can superficially make people appear "lazy", though I don't like using that word. That could be affecting his schoolwork, even if he's being treated. (Especially if he's learned poor habits due to his depression....)

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I know you said this was a vent so if you aren't looking for any suggestions please ignore what I posted below and accept a  :grouphug: instead.  :)

 

 

 

 

I agree with the above, work on the depression issues first and foremost.  That can affect every single thing he does.  Maybe find some interest led areas to focus on and get him involved in outside activities that tap into those areas of interest.  

 

And yes, you might look into getting an evaluation for learning challenges.  At least do a bit of research and see if anything fits.  He could be gifted with learning deficits (look up twice exceptional or 2e kids).  The deficits mask the gifts and vice a versa, making it hard for a student to really get the help they need in the weak areas while also getting really frustrated and dragged down because their strengths make it SEEM like things should be much easier than they are.  2e kids often fall through the cracks and end up suffering from depression and anxiety without targeted, specific help.

 

DS may need something a lot more systematic for writing.  He may need something that gives him a very clear structure/foundation/scaffolding for output.  Quite a few middle schoolers would not be able to produce something so open ended.  Writing is a very complex process and not everyone can grasp all the various parts and have them integrate smoothly without explicit instruction and scaffolding.  You might consider switching him to something like IEW TWSS/SWI-B and go very slowly through the material to make certain he is internalizing the process.

 

And yes, your last paragraph may very well be part of the issue.

 

With regards to math facts, by the way, those can be exceedingly hard to internalize.  I still have not successfully memorized all of my math facts and I have been trying for many decades.  I can still function quite well and run the family business but I use a math reference chart or calculator and I am good at skip counting for the facts that have never stuck.  I would suggest working on math facts separately, including skip counting and maybe something like Timez Attacks (flash cards did zilch for me) and let him work with a math chart (maybe one he creates himself every couple of weeks) for regular math lessons.  That way he can keep his brain power focused on concepts/algorithms during math lessons instead of getting bogged down trying to remember math facts that have not been internalized yet.  Don't let lack of math fact memorization prevent him from succeeding in math.  Math concepts are not processed the same way as math facts.  

 

He may also need a math program that has significant built in review.  Perhaps something more along the lines of CLE where there is quite a bit of review (you can cut out some in areas he is strong) and the program has built in math fact review separate from the actual math lessons.  It has a bit different scope and sequence so I would give a placement test.

 

Or maybe something on-line for practice on the side like CTC Math or Khan Academy.  Khan Academy is free.  CTC Math is one price for multiple students in one family and gives each student access to all math from kindergarten through Calculus.  Each lesson can be repeated as many times as needed since it generates new problems with every lesson.

 

Whatever happens, I commend you for taking this on and I wish you and the children all the best in your endeavors.  

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Iiwm, I'd be considering the depression above all else.

 

Yes, I should have clarified that we aren't considering withdrawal from ps to be a cure-all. He is continuing therapy. My DH also suffers from mood disorder, so he is very conscious of the possibility that DS may have inherited it. I'm just working through how to actually teach him effectively while the depression etc. are happening.

 

These kids have been through a lot. DS's Life of Fred meltdown happened on a day when they had just found out they'll be seeing their bio-mom for the first time in 6 months next week. She's not a healthy or stable human being, and I imagine there are a lot of mixed feelings since the last time they saw her... didn't end well. (See: haven't seen her in 6 months.)

 

At the same time, DH and I are trying to equip them for a normal adult life, and education is an important part of that, as much as therapy. We're trying to find the right balance between freedom and structure to help them succeed both emotionally and educationally. We know we haven't found it yet--my OP was about how I feel like I've finally moved forward 1 step in that process.

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I don't have any daughters, and I'm about to make a generalization.  

It's extremely common for boys to not see the point in doing work they don't see as necessary.  Girls tend to do the work they're assigned, because it's assigned, and boys many times don't work that way.  And, unfortunately, 11 year old boys don't often have a view of the long game.  It's the reason one of my boys had read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings multiple times by the time they were out of elementary school, yet still couldn't be bothered to begin a sentence with a capital letter.  It's why he fought me on Latin, yet took notes in Elvish.  It's why one of my son's work is covered with art.  It's maddening, but it's not uncommon.  

 

Some people find it hard to take correction, but it's a great life skill to learn.  Tell him when you mess up and let him see you ask questions, and let him see his Dad do the same.  Explain that asking questions has nothing to do with intelligence and that you don't expect him to know everything.  

 

I've felt like Sisyphus over the past 12 years--pushing by boys up the hill of knowledge, only to have them roll back down. 

 

Edited by JudoMom
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My 2E kid had/has issues with depression. Even without depression having ADHD, anxiety and dysgraphia hampered output one might have expected from his high IQ.

 

Also did you bring him home and go right into doing a full amount of school at home. Some kids benefit from a little break to recover from whatever was going on in school.

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Depression plays a huge role in what my brain can process.

 

Not mastering the times tables...has he been tested for any kind of learning disabilities?

 

Never been evaluated, no. He doesn't seem to have any issue grasping math concepts--the school he went to just never required that the students memorize math facts, apparently. DD9 needed some time with Multiplication Songs when she came home, too.

 

If there were a disability, it would likely have something to do with memorization. He struggles to memorize anything--math facts, foreign languages, the poems in FLL, etc. But my gut says it's not at the level of disability, just that no teacher has ever spent the time he needs to actually internalize some of this stuff.

 

If adjusting my teaching style to meet the needs I've identified doesn't seem to have any effect, we'll definitely consider testing.

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My 2E kid had/has issues with depression. Even without depression having ADHD, anxiety and dysgraphia hampered output one might have expected from his high IQ.

 

Also did you bring him home and go right into doing a full amount of school at home. Some kids benefit from a little break to recover from whatever was going on in school.

 

How did you identify dysgraphia? DS does have truly execrable handwriting--illegible to anyone who isn't accustomed to decoding it. But his spelling is fine, and the work he does in his penmanship workbook is neat and legible. I was thinking I'd just make him write in cursive for everything from the moment he finishes the workbook.

 

We gave him the month of December off of school after bringing him home and began homeschooling in January.

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This sounds so much like my kids, one extroverted hard worker who STILL says silly things and one introverted smart guy who hates to work hard.

 

I agree about addressing the depression. My DS has bouts, big ones.

 

I also agree about more scaffolding on the writing front. I switched DS from a program that wanted more open ended writing to CAP and he's now thriving.

 

The times tables issue is something we're working on now. I've challenged DS to study by rewarding each number, 1-12, that he 'tests' out of. What is your DSs currency? Is that something your DH can work with him on? DS and DH do it during their workout time (our place has an on-site gym). ETA: movement and multisensory work...has that been tried?

Edited by Sneezyone
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How did you identify dysgraphia? DS does have truly execrable handwriting--illegible to anyone who isn't accustomed to decoding it. But his spelling is fine, and the work he does in his penmanship workbook is neat and legible. I was thinking I'd just make him write in cursive for everything from the moment he finishes the workbook.

 

We gave him the month of December off of school after bringing him home and began homeschooling in January.

DS had a lot of testing. We went through the local children's hospital. It was expensive. But it helped us understand better. My ds also has NVLD. writing issues are common with that.

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I know you said this was a vent so if you aren't looking for any suggestions please ignore what I posted below and accept a  :grouphug: instead.   :)

 

 

...

 

Or maybe something on-line for practice on the side like CTC Math or Khan Academy.  Khan Academy is free.  CTC Math is one price for multiple students in one family and gives each student access to all math from kindergarten through Calculus.  Each lesson can be repeated as many times as needed since it generates new problems with every lesson.

 

Whatever happens, I commend you for taking this on and I wish you and the children all the best in your endeavors.  

 

Thanks for the detailed response and the hugs!

He does Khan Academy. I hadn't heard of Timez Attack, I bet he would like it!

 

We're sure that at least part of it is emotion-related. It's just difficult to zero in on it and get a set of "tools" for him to use when he gets depressed during school time. He seems fine almost all the time that's not school time. He's unable to hide what he's feeling, so we always know when he is upset/ not doing well. It happens most often during school. (Or if he's recently seen relatives from his mom's side and they ask dumbass questions like, "So do you miss your mom?" What do you think, seriously.)

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You have already gotten great advice, so I will just add an observation and ask one question. It's amazing how much we learn about our kids when we teach them. We already know them, right, since we live with them, but we don't always know about how their brains work until we teach them.

 

Now my question: Is DS9 left handed, ambidextrous, extremely athletic, or dyslexic? Her word retrieval quirks look like a very smart brain that might be wired just a bit differently than most.

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You have already gotten great advice, so I will just add an observation and ask one question. It's amazing how much we learn about our kids when we teach them. We already know them, right, since we live with them, but we don't always know about how their brains work until we teach them.

 

Now my question: Is DS9 left handed, ambidextrous, extremely athletic, or dyslexic? Her word retrieval quirks look like a very smart brain that might be wired just a bit differently than most.

DS11 is a lefty, DD9 is a righty. None of the other things except I think she would be extremely athletic if we pushed her. She has the build of a track star, nothin' but legs. But she has zero interest in athletics. High energy, yes, but not competitive or team-oriented.

 

Sent from my SCL23 using Tapatalk

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My DS is VERY tough on himself. VERY. He's a perfectionist and doesn't want to try if he feels he can't excel. He's also easily frustrated and discouraged by mistakes where DD will run neck or nothing into the fray and cares not about making mistakes. My peeps are night and day.

 

My solution for DS, since he was little, was lots and lots of talking. Lots. We start the day with goal-setting and silliness (dance and loud music). We take frequent breaks during the day to refocus/reset our expectations and remind each other of our goals (work hard, try everything, be nice to ourselves, be patient). I send him outside often for fresh air too. He's an intense little dude.

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One last thought, how is he sleeping? DS has a really hard time staying regulated b/c he cannot shut his brain off. I'm on here at all hours for the same reason. I had to start him on melatonin because he was unable to sleep more than four hours at a time, would stay up until 1-2 am (without devices) and be a zombie during school time. Don't be afraid of meds (Rx or over the counter) to help get them over the depression hump. Many folks in my family suffer from it. Recognition and early intervention are critical long term management skills.

Edited by Sneezyone
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Whether or not he had any problems 11 is a wide age for many kids. By that I mean that some kids CANNOT do any work alone at that age. My step dd who i had to home school because she would not do school work in school had to have me sit with her three hours a day at age 11 and work with her. I tried to keep things upbeat and not a punishment, but she was not capable of any independent work at that age. She was a little better at 12 and did most of her own work very well by 13 with little instruction from me. But it takes time. She had a difficult early childhood, grandparents that felt bad about it and overcompensated by spoiling her and telling her how wonderful and smart she was constantly, the first two years of grade school instruction she received were really bad because we were low income in a wealthy school district and the teachers in her school felt like low income children don't succeed anyway so don't spend time on them. So there were a lot of reasons why she was not ready for independent work.

 

ALSO, I might invest in some HEMI-SYNC ADD downloads for him to listen to while working through problem sets. They helped my oldest tremendously. She could go from only doing six or seven problems on her own to finishing problem sets. 

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I don't have advice for some of the issues you may be dealing with, but I will add: homeschooling the first year can just be hard while everyone gets used to the new routine and expectations , you play trial and error with what curriculum works and what doesn't, you deal with your own mental exhaustion at the end of the day etc. That doesn't mean you aren't also dealing with very specific issues, but just know too that at some point things get easier just by virtue of the fact that time has passed and people have settled in :)

 

WRT to the writing output, my charter school teacher suggested for one of my kids a daily journal *that does not get corrected in any way*. Just let the kid get what is in their head out onto the paper. I love love love the WWE series, but the instructions to stop the child when you see them starting to make any mistake can be overwhelming for some kids. One of mine does better if I let her write her thing, and then we correct. Sometimes I re-write correct spellings above misspelled words and let her fix them. Or I'll prompt her: what does a sentence start with? Or end with?

 

How does he do with typing? If it's the *physical* act of writing that is dragging him down, see how he does with a word processor.

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One last thought, how is he sleeping? DS has a really hard time staying regulated b/c he cannot shut his brain off. I'm on here at all hours for the same reason. I had to start him on melatonin because he was unable to sleep more than four hours at a time, would stay up until 1-2 am (without devices) and be a zombie during school time. Don't be afraid of mess (Rx or over the counter) to help get them over the depression hump. Many folks in my family suffer from it. Recognition and early intervention are critical long term management skills.

 

Up and down, sleep-wise. At least once a week he's a zombie but doesn't always remember having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep. Another thing I noticed this week was that greeting him in the morning with a big glass of water seems to jump-start him.

 

If he needs meds we definitely won't be afraid to try them. So far his therapist thinks his issues may be manageable without them. But DH would have been way better off if he'd started meds years earlier than he did (may have avoided years of illegal drug use and problem drinking) so if the expert starts recommending them we won't argue at all.

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Up and down, sleep-wise. At least once a week he's a zombie but doesn't always remember having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep. Another thing I noticed this week was that greeting him in the morning with a big glass of water seems to jump-start him.

 

If he needs meds we definitely won't be afraid to try them. So far his therapist thinks his issues may be manageable without them. But DH would have been way better off if he'd started meds years earlier than he did (may have avoided years of illegal drug use and problem drinking) so if the expert starts recommending them we won't argue at all.

This is where I am with DS. He has no abuse/trauma issues to speak of but I'm keeping a close eye on him. I cannot stress enough how much one on one physical activity improves his mood. The melatonin is non-habit forming and he doesn't need it everyday. It just helps him wind down and get to sleep on bad days. He wakes up sooooo much better. Hydration, yes!!

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