Frustrated with PS, am I being unreasonable?

[Seeking Squirrels]

DD8 is in PS for 3rd this year. We are already planning on her coming home next year for 4th, but we left it up to her over christmas if she wanted to finish out 3rd in PS. She had a hard time deciding but in the end stayed mainly for a friend she made in class.  

 

Two weeks ago Monday was holiday, Tuesday she attended, Wednesday and Thursday she stayed home sick, and Friday she went in. I told her to ask her teacher for make up work and the teacher said not to worry about it, they mainly did review. Then last week was horrible. Myself and both DD's were so sick all week. She attended Monday but missed Tuesday thru Friday. I emailed with her teacher and asked if I could come pick up a make up work packet or even if she could just tell me what topics or math concepts they did I could work with her, I just didn't want her to miss anything and wanted her ready for Monday. The teacher replied that "we didn't cover anything I think [DD] needs practice on." Really? So she can miss 4 days in a row without missing anything? She missed 6 out of 9 school days and she didn't need to do a thing? That is discouraging to me. 

 

OTOH, at home with me those 4 days last week she: spent 4-5 hours on Beast Academy, read a biography on Charles Darwin, chose 3 animals from the DK animal encyclopedia to read and write a paragraph each on, spent several hours free-reading, did a couple science labs from Spangler, listened to 3 chapters from SOTW1, and read a couple egyptian myths. This was with all of us sick and not being set up right now for homeschooling. 

 

It's left me feeling like PS is just a massive waste of her time right now. So tell me, am I being unreasonable here? Maybe we got "lucky" with when we were sick and it was just a couple weeks of only review and that doesn't happen a lot? Or maybe the teacher just doesn't want to make us do make-up work and will give DD any info on the side that she may need? Or......? Or am I right and there should have been something in that time she needed to make up? 

 

I will also point out I haven't been happy with a few other things such as no projects, reports, field trips, or *anything* really going on in her class. And the work she brings home all looks very easy. Her math papers have looked the same for about two months now and it's nothing but 3 digit addition/subtraction and 1 digit multiplication/division. I showed a mom homeschooling her 3rd grader and she agreed it all looked too simple.

 

Part of me wants to just pull her out now so we can make use of the last three months, and part of me thinks I need to let her finish what she started and just deal with it. I fear I'm mostly just antsy to return to homeschooling and slightly regretting putting her in in the first place and am maybe not giving it a fair chance. BTW I'm not letting on to DD how frustrated I am.

 

[regentrude]

PS was a massive waste of time for my kids.

They could have missed weeks without actually missing anything.

 

When my DD came home, she said "I'm glad I don't have to go to school anymore, I can finally learn something."

[Selkie]

You are not being unreasonable. That sounds so much like the experience we had with public school, right down to the math papers being too simple and looking the same for months on end. The classes were taught at the level of the slowest kids, while the rest of the class just stagnated.

[maize]

The teacher has to teach the whole class, not just your dd. Presumably they worked on stuff during those days that she was absent that some students in the class did indeed need to work on, but the teacher feels your dd has already sufficiently mastered. 

 

FWIW my own experience with school was that, for a variety of reasons, not more than 10% of the time I spent in classrooms was actual learning time for me. 

[maize]

Her math papers have looked the same for about two months now and it's nothing but 3 digit addition/subtraction and 1 digit multiplication/division.

Those topics are likely the bulk of what students will be tested on in end of year testing.

Edited March 9, 2017 by maize

[UCF612]

Could it be that they are just drilling and reviewing for standardized testing right now? March is often the big testing month. Third grade was the first time DS had to do the testing in PS. He was so nervous the first morning because they had been harping on the importance of those stupid tests for weeks.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

This was my first thought too.

[mamashark]

not unreasonable in my opinion... My other opinion would be to pull her before the standardized testing. 

[Arcadia]

She missed 6 out of 9 school days and she didn't need to do a thing? That is discouraging to me.

...

Her math papers have looked the same for about two months now and it's nothing but 3 digit addition/subtraction and 1 digit multiplication/division.

If she is doing fine with BA at home, it would be kind of unrealistic to expect her to learn anything new for math at school. The thing with after schooling math is that it just makes the gap bigger and that is to be expected. There is a limit to how much differentiation my kids public school teachers can do in a classroom of at least 30 students in K-5th. My oldest has mastered multiplication and math facts before K, what can the teacher do other than "babysit" and let him do his own reading quietly.

 

My local schools expect all 3rd graders to master math facts/multiplication by end of 3rd grade (excluding those with math LD). So it would not be surprising to see two months or more of multiplication drills worksheets.

[Lori D.]

When my DD came home, she said "I'm glad I don't have to go to school anymore, I can finally learn something."

 

gaahhh! That hurts my heart to hear that.  :crying:

 

So SO SOOO glad your family was able to homeschool, regentrude, esp. seeing how passionate your DD has been in her learning and how far she has flown with being able to homeschool. :)  :hurray:

 

 

I just feel sick for all the futures of all the children who are being flushed down the toilet with so many broken school systems. That documentary, Waiting for Superman, broke my heart. :(

Edited March 9, 2017 by Lori D.

[Heatherwith4]

You're not being unreasonable, but at least the teacher didn't give her a bunch of busy work to do for make up. I remember a couple times when I was really sick as a kid, getting an absolute ton of make up work to do.

[scholarly]

In my area several schools have been closed recently because so many students were sick. Is it possible that, along with your family, many other students were also out sick? This might have resulted in the teacher not moving forward during that time. I can see just reviewing for awhile, rather than having to give make-up work to half the class.

[Ellie]

But she's just in third grade. I can't get worked up over third grade. :-)

 

Now, if she were a junior or senior in high school, then I'd be upset right along with you. But third grade? No.

[Lori D.]

... OTOH, at home with me those 4 days last week she: spent 4-5 hours on Beast Academy, read a biography on Charles Darwin, chose 3 animals from the DK animal encyclopedia to read and write a paragraph each on, spent several hours free-reading, did a couple science labs from Spangler, listened to 3 chapters from SOTW1, and read a couple egyptian myths. This was with all of us sick and not being set up right now for homeschooling....

 

Just wanted to say what an awesome not-at-school educational week you had without even trying!  :hurray:

 

 

Don't know what to say here. Totally agree with you that your frustration with the PS is warranted -- but I also think it's critical to be dependable to our children -- to do what we say we will do.

 

Since staying was mostly for the sake of time spent with the friend, whatever you do, start working on developing a routine of the girls visiting and doing things together that is completely outside of school and school-related activities. Our DSs lost all of their private school friends when we moved from being in the school setting to homeschooling. Nothing personal; it's just that those families' lives all revolved around the school and school-based activities, and once we were no longer in that sphere, we were no longer on their radar to keep up with us -- much as I spent our entire first year of homeschooling repeated calling and trying to set up a play date or meet-up. :(

 

I'd also start working on figuring out where/how you will fill that friend/social need. What outside-the-home activities will be available to you for plugging in and meeting potential friends? Your neighborhood? Swim team? Gymnastics? Cheer squad? Martial arts or dance or other lessons? Homeschool group? Community Youth Theater? YMCA or other sports team?

 

 

BEST of luck however/whenever your family transitions back into homeschooling! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Seeking Squirrels]

In my area several schools have been closed recently because so many students were sick. Is it possible that, along with your family, many other students were also out sick? This might have resulted in the teacher not moving forward during that time. I can see just reviewing for awhile, rather than having to give make-up work to half the class.

I hadn't thought of this possibility. I know we're not the only ones in our circle who have been sick so maybe it's going through her class. 

 

You're not being unreasonable, but at least the teacher didn't give her a bunch of busy work to do for make up. I remember a couple times when I was really sick as a kid, getting an absolute ton of make up work to do.

This is true! Her teacher has been awesome working with us knowing we are homeschoolers at heart and doesn't even send the regular homework packet home each week. She knows we use that time instead to afterschool math and science. 

 

not unreasonable in my opinion... My other opinion would be to pull her before the standardized testing. 

Ya I'm really torn on this. My original thought when she decided to stay was that I was going to have her do the major testing even though I don't care for it at all. I figured if she's going to do PS, she needs the full experience so I'm not going to opt her out. I don't want us to hit a rough patch next February and have her thinking "PS was a breeze....." But now I'm not so sure.    

 

The teacher has to teach the whole class, not just your dd. Presumably they worked on stuff during those days that she was absent that some students in the class did indeed need to work on, but the teacher feels your dd has already sufficiently mastered. 

 

FWIW my own experience with school was that, for a variety of reasons, not more than 10% of the time I spent in classrooms was actual learning time for me. 

Yes, I assume this is the case. But I guess that's what is frustrating. It's definitely a waste of time for her if she's not learning anything. I assume they're doing something, her teacher seems like a good one. Just sort of solidifies what I was already getting an impression of.....that she's not really learning much this year. 

[Seeking Squirrels]

Could it be that they are just drilling and reviewing for standardized testing right now? March is often the big testing month. Third grade was the first time DS had to do the testing in PS. He was so nervous the first morning because they had been harping on the importance of those stupid tests for weeks.

 

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That's also a possibility. I got an email that testing goes from March 28 - May 19. That's a big window but is for 3rd-6th grades, so presumably her actual class will have a more specific block in there.  But it's seeming like they waste so much of the year. The first month was all review, then just a few months of progress, now all of third term spent on review and drill and test prep, then fourth term spent on testing and wrapping up. So around a third to half the year spent in actual progress?

 

Just wanted to say what an awesome not-at-school educational week you had without even trying!  :hurray:

 

Thank you!!

 

 

Don't know what to say here. Totally agree with you that your frustration with the PS is warranted -- but I also think it's critical to be dependable to our children -- to do what we say we will do.

 

Since staying was mostly for the sake of time spent with the friend, whatever you do, start working on developing a routine of the girls visiting and doing things together that is completely outside of school and school-related activities. Our DSs lost all of their private school friends when we moved from being in the school setting to homeschooling. Nothing personal; it's just that those families' lives all revolved around the school and school-based activities, and once we were no longer in that sphere, we were no longer on their radar to keep up with us -- much as I spent our entire first year of homeschooling repeated calling and trying to set up a play date or meet-up. :(

 

I'd also start working on figuring out where/how you will fill that friend/social need. What outside-the-home activities will be available to you for plugging in and meeting potential friends? Your neighborhood? Swim team? Gymnastics? Cheer squad? Martial arts or dance or other lessons? Homeschool group? Community Youth Theater? YMCA or other sports team?

 

 

BEST of luck however/whenever your family transitions back into homeschooling! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

I've told DD to give her friend my number so we can set something up. But they are moving away this summer, so there won't be a long term friendship either way. 

 

I'm excited for a new Co-op we're going to join next year! Both kids can participate and they have a lot of kids, enough to offer 4-6 class options each block. She also does dance, tumbling, and soccer. So she gets lots of interaction time with other kids! I'm hoping also to find more opportunities to meet with one of her best friends that lives about 30 minutes away once we're not held to the PS schedule. Friend still is, but we can go to her on her early out day from school. 

[Guest]

Could it be that they are just drilling and reviewing for standardized testing right now? March is often the big testing month. Third grade was the first time DS had to do the testing in PS. He was so nervous the first morning because they had been harping on the importance of those stupid tests for weeks.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

This was my experience as well. Test obsession started around November, kicked into high gear February- March, and then as soon as the tests were over in March or April, instruction for the year was done. The years without tests that affected pass/fail were slightly better, but I think that's gone away since now ALL tests seem to be life or death. 

 

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, but I would still gauge off of your dd's happiness. If she is looking forward to the last 2-3 months of getting to be with her friend, it's not the end of the world to let her finish out these last 12 weeks or so. Clearly, you know her best and how she would react, but if one of my kids thought they were going to finish out the school year after being given the choice, and then I switched and pulled them out anyway it would be upsetting. 

[maize]

Do you think the testing will be stressful or easy/fun for your dd? This is presumably mostly a matter of whether she has testing anxiety or not as it does not sound like the material would be hard for her. I tended to enjoy standardized tests, don't know why, but certainly I was never stressed about them.

 

 

[Seeking Squirrels]

This was my experience as well. Test obsession started around November, kicked into high gear February- March, and then as soon as the tests were over in March or April, instruction for the year was done. The years without tests that affected pass/fail were slightly better, but I think that's gone away since now ALL tests seem to be life or death. 

 

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, but I would still gauge off of your dd's happiness. If she is looking forward to the last 2-3 months of getting to be with her friend, it's not the end of the world to let her finish out these last 12 weeks or so. Clearly, you know her best and how she would react, but if one of my kids thought they were going to finish out the school year after being given the choice, and then I switched and pulled them out anyway it would be upsetting. 

Yeah, it would upset DD, too. At least if she really is still wanting to stay. The decision really was difficult for her. She kept showing me with her hands how she was leaning *slightly* toward homeschooling. We actually are the ones that pushed it back the other way and told her that we didn't want to make a big change mid-year for such a slight leaning. So we kind of not-officially settled on staying while letting her have a week or two more to think about it, and that's when she started hitting it off with the new friend. 

 

But she's also getting very tired of the school schedule and is no longer happy to be going every day. I had to make her go today which is really the first time that's happened. 

 

Maybe I'll feel her out about it, but I won't just pull her if she doesn't want to. That would just set us up for lots of push back and difficulties at home! 

[Seeking Squirrels]

Do you think the testing will be stressful or easy/fun for your dd? This is presumably mostly a matter of whether she has testing anxiety or not as it does not sound like the material would be hard for her. I tended to enjoy standardized tests, don't know why, but certainly I was never stressed about them.

Stressful. She is very particular and hates getting things wrong. She gets anxiety over having to get things right. It's a lot better now than it was a year ago thanks to anxiety meds, but I still see it. She had a tricky spelling list a few weeks ago and still didn't have two of her ten words down on Thursday evening and she was panicking a little. I had to reassure her that an 80% on one spelling test would be okay.  She hasn't said anything yet so I don't know if her teacher just hasn't said much about it, or if she's actually handling it okay. I might casually ask later if it's come up in class. 

[ealp2009]

For many parents and children, school is free daycare. I say this as a former teacher and the child of teachers. I am not trying to bash teachers in anyway. Why are most kindergartens going to full day? It not because children benefit from being in classrooms all day long. It is because children need care and in many families, there is not a parent available to care for them. With 30 kids (or more) in a class it is hard to differentiate instruction. If the child is fairly quick on the uptake, she could probably come to school 1/3 of the time and be fine.

It is discouraging and very sad for all students, especially those without involved parents who engage their children intellectually at home.

Enjoy the homeschooling!

 

 

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[shawthorne44]

The teacher has to teach the whole class, not just your dd. Presumably they worked on stuff during those days that she was absent that some students in the class did indeed need to work on, but the teacher feels your dd has already sufficiently mastered. 

 

FWIW my own experience with school was that, for a variety of reasons, not more than 10% of the time I spent in classrooms was actual learning time for me. 

 

This is our primary motivation for homeschooling.  I remember being sick a few times, e.g. Chicken Pox and pink eye, where they knew ahead of time I'd be out for many days.   I always finished a week's worth of work by noon the first day.  Then just casually perusing the textbooks for a couple of hours a day would make the next months of school super easy.  

[maize]

Ah. Well, personally I would not put a child through end of year testing unnecessarily if doing so would be anxiety provoking.

 

If she continues to be unhappy with school and resist going I would be strongly tempted to pull her. I have one in public school right now and, while he often puts up a bit of resistance to going, it is mostly a matter of not wanting to quit what he is doing to get dressed and go. He's cheerful enough about it both when I drop him off and pick him up.

 

He's in a language immersion program though so I know he's learning something he couldn't learn at home.

 

 

[Lecka]

Do you think maybe they did a lot of activities and so there is not written work to make up?

 

I have had that happen -- where while stuff was missed, it isn't the kind of thing that can be made up by sending home a packet.

 

But you are concerned anyway so I think you have valid concerns.

[Guest]

Can you opt her out of the testing? I've seen more and more parents, at least as far as the media portrays, doing that here.

[Seeking Squirrels]

I would be very surprised if they had been doing projects and activities instead of worksheets that could come home. That's one of my complaints about the school is that they don't do things like that. 

 

They do two kinds of testing, one is the SAGE and I can opt her out of that. The other is just regular end of year testing and (to the best of my knowledge) I cannot opt her out of that. 

 

 

I wish I knew what to do. DH and I talked about it at length last night and we both agree we would rather her come home. But we do not want to make that decision for her since we did give her the option and then settled on staying. In December we thought we were doing good by letting her have the choice rather than making it for her. She did NOT want to start PS and we thought she would jump at the chance to come home. But she surprised us by having a very hard time deciding and it really started stressing her out. That's why in the end we sort of chose for her but against changing anything. So we do not want to present the option to her to come home and reopen a stressful decision. Neither do we want to simply make the decision for her. So I guess for now that means she stays. I'm trying to think of a good no-stress way of making sure she knows she can come home if she wants to without presenting that as a new choice to have to make. Originally we told her that the mid-year decision would have to stick through the end of the year, that we couldn't wait until there was only a couple months left and then come home. But at the time I didn't have all the frustrations with the school that I have now; I was truly okay with either option. 

[73349]

I'd let her stay, since that's what she picked. She can easily make up for a couple of months by the end of this calendar year. Meanwhile, you can be plotting your field trips and whatnot for the future. :)

 

For the standardized test, I'd emphasize the facts that nobody is supposed to get all the questions right, it doesn't count for a grade, and it probably will not be scored until summer. She will have to do it, but as long is she tries all the sections when directed, she has met her responsibility.

[mamashark]

I would be very surprised if they had been doing projects and activities instead of worksheets that could come home. That's one of my complaints about the school is that they don't do things like that. 

 

They do two kinds of testing, one is the SAGE and I can opt her out of that. The other is just regular end of year testing and (to the best of my knowledge) I cannot opt her out of that. 

 

 

I wish I knew what to do. DH and I talked about it at length last night and we both agree we would rather her come home. But we do not want to make that decision for her since we did give her the option and then settled on staying. In December we thought we were doing good by letting her have the choice rather than making it for her. She did NOT want to start PS and we thought she would jump at the chance to come home. But she surprised us by having a very hard time deciding and it really started stressing her out. That's why in the end we sort of chose for her but against changing anything. So we do not want to present the option to her to come home and reopen a stressful decision. Neither do we want to simply make the decision for her. So I guess for now that means she stays. I'm trying to think of a good no-stress way of making sure she knows she can come home if she wants to without presenting that as a new choice to have to make. Originally we told her that the mid-year decision would have to stick through the end of the year, that we couldn't wait until there was only a couple months left and then come home. But at the time I didn't have all the frustrations with the school that I have now; I was truly okay with either option. 

 

I would bet if you pushed it, you could opt her out of the regular end of year testing - they don't want you to and may tell you that you cannot, but I'm pretty sure you should be able to. If not, that's enough for me to pull her out right there.

 

It sounds like in the end she didn't actually choose to go back, but was just ok with going back. On some level I honestly think this is a decision that shouldn't be left to her anyway. If the school is harming my child in any way (educationally, emotionally, physically), that would be the end of it. I don't agree with the concept of "pushing" a child through stress of testing, or the pain of bullying, or certain educational issues that are detrimental to a child (causing them to dislike learning entirely) simply for the sake of teaching them to follow through with a decision made.

[Farrar]

I agree with the idea that either they were doing test prep or they were doing activities that were too hard to translate into homework. I mean, you yourself did things with her that - at least if I were the classroom teacher and had done that with a group of 3rd graders - I wouldn't have bothered to send home for a sick kid at that age to have to "make up." Like reading the biography or picking animals to learn about. I'd just assume she'd do other activities in class later that would be enriching since that sort of thing doesn't have to be built upon - it's more of a spiral practice thing.

 

But considering the test anxiety and that you suspect they were sitting around with worksheets that aren't even worth sending home, I'd definitely pull her sooner rather than later.

[Mrs Twain]

If the school is worthless, pull her out. I don't understand why you think you are obligated to keep her there. You are acting as though your child is the parent!

[J-rap]

I wouldn't stress about it too much, really.  I think either way would be fine.  She's very young, and you already know you'll be homeschooling her next year.  If she's fine in school and you don't have curriculum together yet for her, for example, I think it's okay to leave her there.  If there are other things going on at school -- anxiety, bullying, or whatever, you could pull her out now. 

 

But, I don't think that decision should be left up to an 8-year-old.  It's probably not a decision most 8-year-olds would really know how to make.  I think it's up to you, as the parent, to decide what makes more sense combined with what's best for her.

 

 

[Seeking Squirrels]

I do have plenty of curriculum here to finish out the year. We were originally going to homeschool this year and actually started for the first week before deciding to enroll her in PS. I would maybe go a slightly different direction with some of it, but it would be what I would get either now or summer/fall when we start at home, not extra just for < 3 months. 

 

I never intended to try placing all the responsibility of the decision on her. It was more that we were really okay with either and wanted to know what she wanted more. And that's usually how we phrased it with her, that the final decision was up to us, but we wanted to know how she felt about it. I say we left it up to her because we probably would have gone with whatever her preference was. Because a lot of why we put her in had to do with anxiety, we didn't want to just yank her one way or the other without her input.

 

I agree the decision should be the parent's and that's why she will be coming home next year. We didn't ask her, we just let her know we'd be coming back to homeschooling next year. But I'm afraid it would set us up for push-back at home if we pull her now against her will. It's not so much about leaving the decision up to an 8 year old as it is wanting to make the transition smooth, which will be more likely to happen with a child who is in agreement with the changes. 

 

DH and I will have to discuss this more today. Thank you all for your input, we really are considering everything everyone has said. 

[SKL]

I agree that they may have been doing practice for standardized tests.

 

I am actually glad they didn't expect her to do a bunch of make-up work when she's been out sick.  I hate our school's policy that you have 2 days (per missed day) to finish ALL of the missed days' work + homework for the days off + keep up with the homework assigned once they're back.  So much work that the kid ends up losing sleep.  All this while they're still recovering from being sick in bed.  I would be thrilled if their teachers said "don't worry about making up those days."

Edited March 11, 2017 by SKL

[Seeking Squirrels]

I agree that they may have been doing practice for standardized tests.

 

I am actually glad they didn't expect her to do a bunch of make-up work when she's been out sick.  I hate our school's policy that you have 2 days (per missed day) to finish ALL of the missed days' work + homework for the days off + keep up with the homework assigned once they're back.  So much work that the kid ends up losing sleep.  All this while they're still recovering from being sick in bed.  I would be thrilled if their teachers said "don't worry about making up those days."

Oh that would be really frustrating. Yes, I'm glad she didn't make her do a lot of busy work just in the name of "making it up".