...

[blondeviolin]

...

Edited March 9, 2017 by blondeviolin

[maize]

My ADHD/ODD kid does really well with listening to audio books to calm down. Just being in a room alone doesn't help because their brain gets stuck in the highly emotional state it is in--they need a distraction, something to get their brain out of the cycle.

[blondeviolin]

 

He usually does audible or classical music. But if he's angry, he won't listen.

Edited March 8, 2017 by blondeviolin

[maize]

Give him some ice cream.

 

It's unconventional, but eating is a common way for adults to self soothe. You want him to develop a tool chest of things he can do to calm down and feel better.

 

Get something to eat.

 

Swing on the swings or jump on a trampoline.

 

Watch a video.

 

Read a book.

 

Take a bath or shower.

 

Two things that absolutely don't work for me to calm myself down are a) sitting in a room alone and ruminating on whatever I am stressed about; and b) confronting the person who is bothering me and telling them all about what is wrong with everything.

 

I'd look for things that are appealing to him and guide him in that direction.

 

Like I said, it's unconventional. It kinda looks like rewarding bad behavior. But I really don't think it works that way with a kid whose brain is so keyed up they can't think rationally.

Edited March 8, 2017 by maize

[MomatHWTK]

Caffeine, food, shower, nap. Distraction, redirection, humor. 

[Guest]

deleted for privacy

Edited August 17, 2017 by Guest

[Targhee]

Maize, that is excellent advice.

 

We used What to Do When Your Temper Flares to help DS when he was about 8 or 9. It goes through great CBT techniques with them in ways kids can understand. You read and work on it together, when he's happy.

 

What to Do When Your Temper Flares: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Problems With Anger ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/1433801345/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_D0pWyb1QJ29JW

[Guest]

nm

Edited August 17, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

nm

Edited August 17, 2017 by Guest

[PeterPan]

Wow, must have been provocative if you already deleted! Just in a totally different direction, I'll say that a psych has been helping us with some calming techniques that are trying to go right to the something in the brain. There are charts on this, and his basic point is that there's a point where it's no longer cognitive, where you're no longer going to reason them to calm. At that point, you have to have a practiced skill of letting the other person help you calm or self-calming. 

 

Some of the things are obvious. Like the most simple form is just count backward from 10 to 0 and breathe deeply. I found a little app for my ds to practice it with. Stupid simple, can help. 

 

He has some more stepped up techniques, and one of them I know I saw somewhere else and can't remember. So it's not like this stuff is proprietary to him. It's just different from the whole sensory gig the OTs talk about. They ahve their lists, fine. But these calming techniques can go another step up. I agree with you that there comes a point where handing them a ball, saying to do push-ups, etc. doesn't work. That's where this person-guided mindfulness and calming seems like a step up. There's Behavioral Relaxation Therapy, but what this guy is showing us is beyond that. I just don't have a source on it to share, sigh.

Edited March 9, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[blondeviolin]

Not really provocative. I just didn't want to forget to delete so I wasn't flaunting stuff about a particular child I was feeling in frustration all over the internet. I really appreciate book and technique suggestions. I'm still reading and looking at things. We have tried to give him tools and techniques but he won't utilize them when upset. He just continues to hyper focus on what is upsetting him. He knows what to do mentally but when the emotions kick in he has no control either, unfortunately.

[blondeviolin]

And we've role-played it a lot with lots of moaning and groaning and "this is stupid." He's a kid who thinks he knows it all and I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about.

[PeterPan]

Are you practicing the calming strategies when he's calm? Are you saying that's when the moaning and groaning is occurring? Maybe it's the age, lol. I just get flat-out refusals. Carrot and stick kwim? We just build it in matter of factly, like this is the next thing, do it and the next thing will be something you like better. But kids are different, like you say.

[TheReader]

I missed the original post, but am getting, I think, the jist of it from the replies. 

 

Regarding what you mentioned in one of your replies, about him knowing the steps but unable to do them when emotion kicks in -- we're also working with a psychologist with our son on this issue. He gets frustrated, reacts in a manner disproportionate to the situation, and at that moment doesn't even really recognize that he even IS upset, let alone that he needs to use his calming techniques, and he's certainly not receptive to being coached in the moment like that, at all. 

 

One of the things she's having us do with him, is that she's given him 3 different types/sets of language for how to self-identify how he's feeling (becoming more and more finessed/fine tuned with each one). The first image was just that of a snow globe -- shaken up/swirling, or settled down. Very broad, only two choices, etc. When he began having success identifying that she moved to 3 types, using weather -- sunny, cloudy, stormy. Happy/all is well, getting upset, angry/upset. This was to help him start to identify that "just before I hit really crazy mad" phase. Once he had success with identifying that, she moved to a 4 step system of zones (blue, green, yellow, red) where blue is low energy, green is good, yellow is starting to get bugged by stuff, and red is of course frustrated. He really didn't have the language or self awareness to identify what he was feeling, when, other than us saying "why are you mad?" and he didn't feel like mad was right. 

 

How we helped him learn those things -- if he started getting annoyed, we would ask him (and we had a chart for each of these so he could even just use the visual or point to it) and get him to identify where he was. It might still come out as a yell, but he'd identify it, and then maybe be willing to go through the steps to move down a level. (she had prescribed all the things already mentioned; count backwards from 10, true deep breathing and she taught him how, physical activity, coloring a Zen coloring book/mandala coloring book, building a lego creation, etc.)

 

BUT what I really wanted to mention, addressing what you said about him not using his tools -- one of the key components she has had us do is to do "check-ins" with him when he's engaged in any kind of activity or situation that we know is a common trigger (certain video games or computer games, or very competitive board games, or difficult school work, or whatever). Initially it was to set the timer for even 10 minute intervals and ask him where he is on the scale (outlined above). If he's sunny or green, he keeps going. If he hits cloudy or yellow, he does a calming thing *then* before getting to the stormy/red zone, taking himself back down to the green/sunny level before proceeding. Initially this was with us guiding him, then him setting a timer and checking himself, and eventually moved to 15 mins and longer as he becomes more self aware. 

 

Lastly, everyone in the house knows the steps, so no one yells at him, or overreacts or punishes anymore for it. He gets upset, whoever is there points to the chart (we have one posted up in the computer room and the TV room, two places most likely to generate the frustration at this point), asks him what level he's at, and what does he want to do to get down to the proper level. It isn't all sunny and roses, he still kind of yells his way through it, BUT it's gotten everyone on the same page in dealing with it, which at least keeps it from escalating, which is nice. And the check-ins periodically help HIM to identify and recognize when he's approaching that level, and help him (and us) self-regulate better down to a calmer level *before* the logical side flies out the window and is lost. 

 

Now, we  have dealt with far more irrational anger than we're dealing with right now; sometimes it wasn't predictable at all, and then I guess we'd have had to do check-ins all throughout the day (maybe every 30 mins?), but that really has been the most helpful aspect of what we've been doing. I knew a lot of the calming techniques she has him use, we were already trying those, and he was already refusing to do them ;) But the word-pictures she gave him, to identify a name for what he feels in those moments....helpful. And instruction to check-in, identify, and self-soothe until he's down to a reasonable level *before* it gets bad....priceless. It sounds so common sense, now, but in all the years we have dealt with this, I'd never thought of that on my own. 

 

Hope that helps some. If I'm way off base, since I missed the original post, forgive me. 

[blondeviolin]

Are you practicing the calming strategies when he's calm? Are you saying that's when the moaning and groaning is occurring? Maybe it's the age, lol. I just get flat-out refusals. Carrot and stick kwim? We just build it in matter of factly, like this is the next thing, do it and the next thing will be something you like better. But kids are different, like you say.

Yeah. I want him to role play it so it's not foreign in the throes of something else. He thinks he'll look stupid or it's dumb to role play because he's not mad then already knows.

 

Pretty sure it is partially age. Mom just has no clue, y'know? We do a lot of bribes. :p

[blondeviolin]

I missed the original post, but am getting, I think, the jist of it from the replies.

 

Regarding what you mentioned in one of your replies, about him knowing the steps but unable to do them when emotion kicks in -- we're also working with a psychologist with our son on this issue. He gets frustrated, reacts in a manner disproportionate to the situation, and at that moment doesn't even really recognize that he even IS upset, let alone that he needs to use his calming techniques, and he's certainly not receptive to being coached in the moment like that, at all.

 

One of the things she's having us do with him, is that she's given him 3 different types/sets of language for how to self-identify how he's feeling (becoming more and more finessed/fine tuned with each one). The first image was just that of a snow globe -- shaken up/swirling, or settled down. Very broad, only two choices, etc. When he began having success identifying that she moved to 3 types, using weather -- sunny, cloudy, stormy. Happy/all is well, getting upset, angry/upset. This was to help him start to identify that "just before I hit really crazy mad" phase. Once he had success with identifying that, she moved to a 4 step system of zones (blue, green, yellow, red) where blue is low energy, green is good, yellow is starting to get bugged by stuff, and red is of course frustrated. He really didn't have the language or self awareness to identify what he was feeling, when, other than us saying "why are you mad?" and he didn't feel like mad was right.

 

How we helped him learn those things -- if he started getting annoyed, we would ask him (and we had a chart for each of these so he could even just use the visual or point to it) and get him to identify where he was. It might still come out as a yell, but he'd identify it, and then maybe be willing to go through the steps to move down a level. (she had prescribed all the things already mentioned; count backwards from 10, true deep breathing and she taught him how, physical activity, coloring a Zen coloring book/mandala coloring book, building a lego creation, etc.)

 

BUT what I really wanted to mention, addressing what you said about him not using his tools -- one of the key components she has had us do is to do "check-ins" with him when he's engaged in any kind of activity or situation that we know is a common trigger (certain video games or computer games, or very competitive board games, or difficult school work, or whatever). Initially it was to set the timer for even 10 minute intervals and ask him where he is on the scale (outlined above). If he's sunny or green, he keeps going. If he hits cloudy or yellow, he does a calming thing *then* before getting to the stormy/red zone, taking himself back down to the green/sunny level before proceeding. Initially this was with us guiding him, then him setting a timer and checking himself, and eventually moved to 15 mins and longer as he becomes more self aware.

 

Lastly, everyone in the house knows the steps, so no one yells at him, or overreacts or punishes anymore for it. He gets upset, whoever is there points to the chart (we have one posted up in the computer room and the TV room, two places most likely to generate the frustration at this point), asks him what level he's at, and what does he want to do to get down to the proper level. It isn't all sunny and roses, he still kind of yells his way through it, BUT it's gotten everyone on the same page in dealing with it, which at least keeps it from escalating, which is nice. And the check-ins periodically help HIM to identify and recognize when he's approaching that level, and help him (and us) self-regulate better down to a calmer level *before* the logical side flies out the window and is lost.

 

Now, we have dealt with far more irrational anger than we're dealing with right now; sometimes it wasn't predictable at all, and then I guess we'd have had to do check-ins all throughout the day (maybe every 30 mins?), but that really has been the most helpful aspect of what we've been doing. I knew a lot of the calming techniques she has him use, we were already trying those, and he was already refusing to do them ;) But the word-pictures she gave him, to identify a name for what he feels in those moments....helpful. And instruction to check-in, identify, and self-soothe until he's down to a reasonable level *before* it gets bad....priceless. It sounds so common sense, now, but in all the years we have dealt with this, I'd never thought of that on my own.

 

Hope that helps some. If I'm way off base, since I missed the original post, forgive me.

This is really helpful! I could especially use it for my 3yo. Not the intended kid, but it'd help in a different area, so thank you!

 

The kid that gets angry like this is my 9yo. He can identify what he's feeling, but he gets so wrapped in the emotion of anger that he can't get out of that. He focuses on what made him angry and constantly and stews on it. He refuses to even try because he's so stuck on the one thing. He won't even cooperate.

 

He's doing much better today.

 

I am pretty sure this is in some way related to his ADHD and the impulses he feeds off sometimes. I had hopes that the stimulant would help that, but I think working with a therapist will help too. At the very least because he'll listen to that person rather me.

[Guest]

nm

Edited August 17, 2017 by Guest

[PeterPan]

The stuff Reader is describing is Zones of Regulation, and it's *exceptional* once your dc is ready for it. You can buy the book, attend training workshops, etc. If you want to get a behaviorist or SLP or OT who has done the training to do Zones with him, that can work. Then you'll want to carry it over at home with the check-ins she's describing. You can also attend the training and learn it yourself.

 

I went to the training, and I'm super glad I did. It helped me wrap my brain around the program, and it helps me work better with the other people on my team who ALSO do Zones. So literally the behaviorist, the OT, me, we can all work together. It requires some commitment. It's not like he's just gonna go have once a week and boom. Well maybe some kids, lol. 

 

They give discounts for parents. You might see when the next workshops are. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[TheReader]

Glad it helped! Something CanadaMom said reminded me...the therapist also has him focus on a happy or really good memory as a means of returning to that preferred zone. He has to think of things in calm times, to use as the prompt later, but it helps.

 

Oh, and he is 12, but just not super aware, prior to this, of when he is acting in a frustrated manner. The check ins during calmer times have really helped, and the practice using the calming techniques when in mild annoyance vs full blown anger have sort of helped transition from role play to practical use.

 

Best of luck! I know it is crazy hard to deal with.

[PeterPan]

Yeah. I want him to role play it so it's not foreign in the throes of something else. He thinks he'll look stupid or it's dumb to role play because he's not mad then already knows.

 

Pretty sure it is partially age. Mom just has no clue, y'know? We do a lot of bribes. :p

 

You know, sometimes it's just having a fresh person present it (to of course validate the brilliance of Mom!) or having a slightly different wording. You might see what happens if you get Zones. You can also google and search Pinterest to see how people are implementing it. You might find some tweaks. Usually they're going to talk about choices, strategies. They're going to use choice boards. Like you can make a little color book with pages for each color and his choices for each zone. So then it's more like we check in, we practice our strategies, kwim? 

 

But yeah, if he won't do it for you, pay someone else. It's not specific to providers, so anyone who has been trained can be helpful. I found an OT who didn't attend the training but was trained by her supervisor who had. This OT is like really, really intuitive on ds and how kinesthetic he is. She would literally do activities with him to move his body through a bunch of zones in a session (actually we were doing ALERT, but same idea) and then make choices to get back to a calmer state. They can throw balls  with velcro at the colors. Like you can put your use of it in motion. She'd have him watch videos and analyze what zones the Charlie Brown characters were in. She was just really good at shaking it up!

[TheReader]

The stuff Reader is describing is Zones of Regulation, and it's *exceptional* once your dc is ready for it. You can buy the book, attend training workshops, etc. If you want to get a behaviorist or SLP or OT who has done the training to do Zones with him, that can work. Then you'll want to carry it over at home with the check-ins she's describing. You can also attend the training and learn it yourself.

 

I went to the training, and I'm super glad I did. It helped me wrap my brain around the program, and it helps me work better with the other people on my team who ALSO do Zones. So literally the behaviorist, the OT, me, we can all work together. It requires some commitment. It's not like he's just gonna go have once a week and boom. Well maybe some kids, lol.

 

They give discounts for parents. You might see when the next workshops are.

Oh, I didn't know it was a book with a name and all, lol! It's just what his therapist is doing. And yes, it is fabulous. Glad to know there's a resource for it out there!

[PeterPan]

Yup. :D