Don't know what to do

[LLMom]

I recently took my dyslexic daughter age 12 out of private school. She was there only 1/2 the year. Since coming home, we have had a rough time. I let her pick topics in history and science. She gives me trouble about every subject and 2-3 times a week there are tears. I don't think it is too hard. She has stress about grades, failing, etc from school so maybe she needs to deschool?? Last year, at home in 5 th grade, she was fine most of the time with homeschooling. I tried a free trial of time 4 learning to give her another teacher and less handwriting. She claims she hates it. She hates every single thing and can't do anything because she is dumb ( her words). I am at my wits end. I tried rewards which helps a bit when she is in the mood for the reward. She has to do some schoolwork, but I don't know what to do. Not sure if it's bad attitude, hormones, stress from school, or what. I don't think there are any other learning issues because when she is calm, she does very well. Any ideas?

[EKS]

See if you can figure out exactly when things start to go downhill.  For example, when my son was young, he would routinely have meltdowns during math.  For a long time, I thought he just didn't like math, but I finally realized that he melted down every time I handed him a pencil.  We switched to a whiteboard and with him having a choice about whether to write or have me scribe for him, and there were no more meltdowns.

 

So I would look at exactly what triggers her tears.  Is there a pattern?

 

Also, with my dyslexic son (who is not the same as the son I just mentioned), we did everything together at that age.  I read a lot aloud.  I wouldn't expect her to work independently at all.

[OneStepAtATime]

She is dyslexic.  My first question is has she had any targeted remediation to address her underlying weaknesses? (Sorry if you posted about this before.  I can't remember.)

 

Second question, does she have any comorbid issues such as low working memory, low processing speed, etc.?  Or did she have evaluations to cover potential comorbid issues?

 

Yes, she probably needs to deschool for a bit.  And I would pick maybe one interest led area that you do together, reading to her instead of her reading on her own, or letting her listen to audio books then do discussion together, maybe a project or two, etc.  Find out where her strengths are and tap into those as much as possible.  I would also do as mentioned above and try to find EXACTLY where the break down is in each subject.

 

For instance, it took me a long time to realize that DD was breaking down with math because she was missing some critical subitization skills but was bright enough she had been kind of "faking it" in a way and neither of us was even aware of it.  We had to start from scratch, with short lessons, lots of encouragement and being open to different approaches to math (for instance long multiplication was a struggle until we switched to Lattice method.)  

 

With reading, she needed to go back to the most basic building blocks and start over.  Starting over meant that she finally filled in the critical gaps she was missing and is now reading quite comfortably at grade level. HOWEVER, she also has developmental vision issues and low processing speed.  This means that while she can read fine at grade level it takes more time and she fatigues more quickly.  She needs frequent breaks.

 

Right now your child is probably going into fight or flight mode.  Help her detox and find what the underlying break down areas are as well as her areas of strength, even if those don't immediately seem apparent.

 

You might also read The Dyslexic Advantage if you haven't already.  

 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, and FWIW, Time for Learning did not work well in my home past 2nd grade for my two dyslexic kiddos.  Not enough review, material covered too quickly, some stuff was text based when they weren't ready for that, some instruction was confusing/not intuitive, etc.

[PeterPan]

Was this a school for dyslexics or a just a typical school? It sounds like she really had some negative experiences there that you're going to have to undo with some confidence-building and de-schooling. 

 

Personally, I'd go sew and cook for a while. It's spring. Here's a page of denim quilt projects I've been looking at for my ds. If you google "quilt as you go" denim quilts, they should be easy enough for a beginner. If she can learn to sew a straight line, she can do it. https://www.craftsy.com/blog/2015/01/denim-quilt-patterns/?cr_linkid=Nov_Selected_7_Quilting_Club_Blog__4277460&cr_maid=77063&cr_medium=Social+Engagement&cr_source=Facebook

 

And for the cooking, does she like to bake? Make a pinterest board together, collect ideas for March (St Patrick's Day!) and April (Easter!) and make things.

 

Go weed and plant flowers and prep your beds for spring. Daffodils are coming up. Force some bulbs. Do a book on flower arranging or napkin folding. My dd did napkin folding at that age and really enjoyed it!

 

You might watch some movies together. Like pick a new genre or star she's never seen before. Kids are kind of funny. I've been thinking about getting my ds into John Wayne. They were showing The Quiet Man on tv recently, and I think he'd like it. Irish, etc. kinda goes with your March/St Patrick's thing. So you could eat green baked goods and watch The Quiet Man. Then rabbit trail all your Maureen O'Hara movies. I'm sure that should restore her spunk, watching a strong, red-haired woman, hehe.

 

You're saying she has to "do some schoolwork" and those things ARE school work. The pinterest boards are reading. Cooking is math. Sewing is math and reading. The movies are 20th century history. Map them and you've got geography. Like seriously embrace this a bit. Put on some audiobooks, play some games, get back your good vibes. Let her be good at some things and get back her positive momentum.

 

When you put her in school, did she already have some frustrations going in? Have you addressed those areas? Or are you coming back to the problems you had before AND the problems from the school?

Edited March 1, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[LLMom]

She went through a program with a dyslexia tutor ( Wilson and Scottish rite) which took 2 1/2 years. She is now on grade level in reading and about 2 years behind in spelling. She was only tested for dyslexia through our school district when she was 9. Would those tests caught processing issues?

[LLMom]

Was this a school for dyslexics or a just a typical school? It sounds like she really had some negative experiences there that you're going to have to undo with some confidence-building and de-schooling.

 

Personally, I'd go sew and cook for a while. It's spring. Here's a page of denim quilt projects I've been looking at for my ds. If you google "quilt as you go" denim quilts, they should be easy enough for a beginner. If she can learn to sew a straight line, she can do it. https://www.craftsy.com/blog/2015/01/denim-quilt-patterns/?cr_linkid=Nov_Selected_7_Quilting_Club_Blog__4277460&cr_maid=77063&cr_medium=Social+Engagement&cr_source=Facebook

 

And for the cooking, does she like to bake? Make a pinterest board together, collect ideas for March (St Patrick's Day!) and April (Easter!) and make things.

 

Go weed and plant flowers and prep your beds for spring. Daffodils are coming up. Force some bulbs. Do a book on flower arranging or napkin folding. My dd did napkin folding at that age and really enjoyed it!

 

You might watch some movies together. Like pick a new genre or star she's never seen before. Kids are kind of funny. I've been thinking about getting my ds into John Wayne. They were showing The Quiet Man on tv recently, and I think he'd like it. Irish, etc. kinda goes with your March/St Patrick's thing. So you could eat green baked goods and watch The Quiet Man. Then rabbit trail all your Maureen O'Hara movies. I'm sure that should restore her spunk, watching a strong, red-haired woman, hehe.

 

You're saying she has to "do some schoolwork" and those things ARE school work. The pinterest boards are reading. Cooking is math. Sewing is math and reading. The movies are 20th century history. Map them and you've got geography. Like seriously embrace this a bit. Put on some audiobooks, play some games, get back your good vibes. Let her be good at some things and get back her positive momentum.

 

When you put her in school, did she already have some frustrations going in? Have you addressed those areas? Or are you coming back to the problems you had before AND the problems from the school?

She was at a Catholic school. I guess when I say she needs to do some work, I mean that I feel like she needs some requirements because I hate to lose anything in readin, writing, and spelling especially. Before going to school, she had self-confidence issues about reading and has always hated to learn (schoolwork) She would love to do many of the things listed, but I figured it isn't a good idea to unschooled or do relaxed homeschooling with a dyslexic child. Maybe I'm wrong.

[PeterPan]

What is your plan for continuing her reading intervention? Was the school doing any intervention? If you don't have a plan for that, might be a thought to get a tutor and have that start when they have an opening, maybe in a month or something. Would lower that stress. There's probably more that she's ready for, and she probably lost some ground.

 

If there's stress between you two, allowing you to focus on pairing and allowing someone else to do the dirty work might be an option.

[OneStepAtATime]

In all likelihood, no that type of evaluation would not have caught comorbid issues.  You may need to dig deeper to find out where the disconnects may be.  One thing I had to internalize was that the reading part was only one piece of a larger picture.  Reading at grade level does not mean that all processes are now smooth and she can function across the board like a typical High Schooler.  Also, DD missed critical pieces over the years because she was struggling with reading and other areas.  Those gaps need to be filled systematically and consistently and with a lot of positive feedback.

 

Also, DD needed desperately to feel good inside again.  It is so hard to see peers doing things with relative ease and realize that none of it comes easily to you.  And yet you are smart.  That is one of the tricky things.  Most dyslexics are quite bright.  People expect them to be able to function because they ARE bright.  When they struggle then they may internalize that they are stupid while others think they must just be lazy.  I had to keep us working to strengthen areas of weakness but more importantly I had to find and tap into her areas of strength, something the school never did.  

 

Anther thing to consider is the effort.  In all likelihood she is having to put in a LOT of effort to get half as far as an NT kid.  When EVERYTHING takes tremendous effort, the brain can go into overload pretty easily.  I had to recognize that DD reading for 10 minutes in a subject that was not intuitively understood meant she was putting in 10 times the brain effort that I would have been.  Yes, she now reads at grade level.  Decoding and Fluency still take more effort than with an NT kid.  And then trying to process those words into meaningful images also takes effort, much more than it would for me.  

 

For instance, I realized that with math problems, even though she was decoding the words correctly she was needing a LOT more time and targeted practice understanding the vocabulary and translating it into something meaningful in her head.  We had to create a math notebook that included vocabulary and visual representations.  We worked on vocabulary in math a LOT.  Words that seemed simple but on the fly she couldn't immediately translate into meaning.  It took practice and association and working from different perspectives.

 

DD does not learn the same way I do.  It took time for us to find a successful path together.  Hang in there.  Keep an open mind, dig in deeper, find the disconnects, and yeah, maybe detox for a bit while you find a better path.  

Edited March 1, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[LLMom]

What is your plan for continuing her reading intervention? Was the school doing any intervention? If you don't have a plan for that, might be a thought to get a tutor and have that start when they have an opening, maybe in a month or something. Would lower that stress. There's probably more that she's ready for, and she probably lost some ground.

 

If there's stress between you two, allowing you to focus on pairing and allowing someone else to do the dirty work might be an option.

School was accommodating only. We are doing Megawords to help with reading multi-syllabic words and she also does some Steck-Vaughn workbooks for reading. I may look into more tutoring. Thanks

[OneStepAtATime]

Does she have areas of interest?

[Heathermomster]

Ideas?  Well, my eldest child came home from private school for 7th grade and has been home ever since.

 

I did the following things:

1.  He took a learning styles test.

2.  He was assessed by a trusted O-G tutor to ensure reading remediation was finished.

3.  He was assessed by an OT to discern whether anything could be done to assist his dysgraphia.

4.  I hired an O-G and IEW certified writing tutor.

5.  I ensured that he had ample time to hang with friends from school. As an extrovert, DS needs his peeps, so we made a big effort to keep up with school friends.

 

With the exception of math, DS started typing fully in 6th grade.  We deliberately practiced for 20 min at 5 days/week until he was at 30wpm.  I accommodated the reading by giving him full access to audio books.  Language was limited to Easy Grammar, Winston, and freerice.com.  Science was hands-on.  DS loves the WTM history notebook minus historical fiction.  Science and history were supplemented by field trips and documentaries.  Most subjects were limited to 30 minutes, and the school day ended by 2:30 pm.  

 

If he was emotional, I made the boy a PBJ and sent him to his room for a nap.  We talked a lot and I stressed communication.  When he completed work with a good attitude, I took him for coffee or street tacos.  I used his currency a lot.

 

Maybe you should sit down and work out the accommodations and school goals.  If you haven't done so already, set up a Learning Ally and BookShare account.  Some moms use the NLS and BARD.  

 

We hugged a lot and the LORD gave me a deep compassion for my son.  

Edited March 1, 2017 by Heathermomster

[LLMom]

Does she have areas of interest?

She loves science (chemistry in particular but not the bookwork-- more the hands on), cooking, and gymnastics (she is a competitive gymnast)

Edited March 1, 2017 by LLMom

[LLMom]

Where or what type of tests identify comorbid issues? She has a Learning Ally account, text to speech app ( which she hates because of the fake sounds), and a dragon diction app to use for notes or writing. She does type so we do have those.

[OneStepAtATime]

A full neuropsych evaluation would give you more detailed, broader answers but I don't know if you are in a position to pursue one.

 

Ours revealed that DD has very low processing speed but extreme strengths in certain visual/spacial areas (like off the charts).  Also, she is so visual/spatial that English is basically a second language, not her primary.  She is very articulate and always has been but when presented with a new word or concept it is like a foreign language that she is not very conversant in.  It takes time to translate that word into a picture or feeling in her head that makes sense to her and to then consistently link those sounds/letters with that meaning.  This means that even though she reads at grade level, when reading any sort of text that introduces new words/concepts she needs more time to process the information and may need it in smaller chunks with a LOT more review.  Once she gets it, she gets it.  She just needs more time and review to get it.

[Heathermomster]

The VoiceDream text to speech app allows the user to try various voice samples plus adjust pitch and speed.

[OneStepAtATime]

She loves science (chemistry in particular but not the bookwork-- more the hands on), cooking, and gymnastics (she is a competitive gymnast)

O.k. so she really loves science.  Could you spin academics off of science?  Keep reading/writing requirements low for now.  Do a lot of hands on experiments, watch documentaries, stuff like that.  Work on writing up science labs through some sort of pre-printed worksheet at first so she is just filling in blanks for a bit.  Scribe for her at first if she is resistant.

 

Does she do o.k. with listening to audio books for fact information?  DD doesn't but DS does.  You might have her listen to some autobiographies tied to science.  And maybe some history tied to science, like The Disappearing Spoon.  Keep expected written output low for now.  Maybe just do discussion for the time being.  Work on reading and writing skills in small chunks with dyslexia friendly materials.

 

For grammar/writing you MIGHT look at using Fix-It Grammar and IEW SWI-B.  Fix-It is only :15 a day 4 days a week.  IEW SWI-B she could watch the video with you and do the bulk of her work on a dry erase board then type up final drafts.

 

Does she need any work on improving her typing?  You might look at Touch Type Read and Spell since it is specifically based on Orton-Gillingham type reading/spelling programs.  It would help reinforce reading/spelling and is very dyslexia friendly.  Homeschool Buyer's Co-Op frequently has it on sale.

[PeterPan]

School was accommodating only. We are doing Megawords to help with reading multi-syllabic words and she also does some Steck-Vaughn workbooks for reading. I may look into more tutoring. Thanks

 

If you're needing that level of work, you might want to update your testing with a DAR and CTOPP. I took my ds to a reading tutor who would do them for only $75 as part of intake. You might call around. They kicked out numbers for decoding level vs. overall reading level. Because my ds has a 99th percentile vocabulary, his overall reading level is multiple, multiple grade levels above where he decodes. Your dd might have some discrepancies like that, so she *seems* to be reading at a certain level but is actually showing significant effect from the SLD needing intervention. That discrepancy would make her pretty frustrated, yes.

 

If you're going to do academics, are you doing things where she can have ebooks for her texts? A lot of things are going that way. Anything where you can use VoiceDream, get it on audio, get an ebook/app version, that kind of thing. Some highlight as they read. The BJU texts are now available that way. You tap read and bam it highlights and reads. Comes from with the online/video courses. I'm using it with my ds, and the ebooks from them even work online. I'm not saying use BJU, but whatever you are using, definitely you'll want to have options like that.

Edited March 2, 2017 by OhElizabeth