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OK guys. Can I move somewhere crazy cold for a lot more money?


MeaganS
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What do you think? Dh is looking for his first physician job and our biggest concern is the crazy amount of debt we're in from medical school. Jobs in freezing cold places tend to pay significantly more than jobs in places more temperate. (I'm talking Minnesota/ND, places like that)

 

I'm struggling to figure out if I can do that or if I need to just tell dh no. A little about us:

 

I've moved tons. Moving somewhere new doesn't intimidate me at all. Family is all over the country and I enjoy frequent road trips anyways. I travel all the time with or without dh but with the girls.

 

With the money being significantly better, we could afford a nicer house (less cabin fever while homeschooling?) and vacation to warmer places. So frequent escaping would be non-negotiable.

 

But I really love nice climate. We're in NC now and the girls are outside playing without jackets while trees bloom in our backyard. I've already started our garden! We went camping 2 hours away last week and it was beautiful weather. And I love all of this.

 

I get SAD a little. Not horribly. I noticed it most when I lived in Utah for 5 years. If we did this, I would need to be very careful about that.

 

What sort of requirements would you make if you were moving somewhere that is winter 6mo of the year? What I've thought of are:

 

Decent budget for vacation.

4wd car.

Large, well-lit house with full basement so the kids can run around.

And good budget for winter clothes.

 

Is that enough? Could you do it? Anything I'm not thinking of?

 

It wouldn't have to be forever, but probably 3-5 years.

 

Eta: by more money I mean almost double what we would normally expect.

Edited by Meagan S
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I live in northern Wisconsin and honestly LOVE it. Sure, February does get to be a long month when it is -10 below for weeks at a time.... but other than that I love the change of seasons. We have hot summers and cold winters - its fun :D Some years like this one it will be 40-50 degrees out in February! Plus, it makes winter vacations to Florida and Texas even better!

 

 

 

 

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4WD car with remote start and ability to plug in if needed.

A fair number of sunny days even in the winter a few hours of sunshine can make a big difference

A carport or garage to keep snow off and a service to shovel snow

Being able to downhill and/or cross country ski close by

Snow machines are another great way to have fun in the winter.

 

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Money isn't everything but debt is a huge stressor for me.  So if I could pay off debt much faster I might be willing to go to a cold climate.  I would just have to balance that with the other higher costs that you mentioned (bigger house etc)

 

Agree.

 

It would be worth it if with all the other costs you are talking about adding in if you could still pay off your debt really fast.   

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Have you considered (or is it even possible) to join the military as a doctor and have your debts removed?  Not sure of the details of this, but I know that a WHOLE LOTTA military doctors are in the military just to get their medical school paid off.

 

ETA:  Link with general info:  http://www.military.com/education/money-for-school/health-professionals-loan-repayment-program.html

Edited by Kinsa
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Alaska is considered medically underserved so it might have opportunities, although I am not in the field to know rate of pay. It is expensive to live here though, and the move to get here costs quite a bit no matter how frugally you try to do it. 3-5 years would almost certainly not be worth it financially.

 

No matter where you go, if you tell people up front that you don't plan to stay, you will likely have more trouble making real friends and connections. Socially isolated on top of cold and dark is not fun.

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I live in Minnesota, and I would probably want a decent budget for outside activities for the kids and for me. Winter is a lot more tolerable when you get out among other people regularly.

 

Unless you enjoy horrible, back-breaking work, you'll probably want to hire someone for snow removal if your dh is going to be too busy with his new job to do it. Shoveling the driveway is at the bottom of my favorite chores list, and I love being outside.

 

If you guys like being outside, you'll probably end up wanting a boat.

 

I've lived here most of my life in a small home and haven't taken a vacation since college, so I think you would probably be fine. ;)

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We moved from the south to a cold climate, thinking it would be 3-5 years. It's been 25.  

 

Is the increased salary going to enable you to pay debt down faster or is it all going to be tied up in increased cost of living?  Snow gear every year for four kids...increased heat costs...you'll probably sign kids up for organized activities to get them out of the house during cold months...larger house than you would buy normally...road trips and vacations...it adds up quickly.   

 

I wouldn't rule out a move north, but would carefully consider whether you'll be able to pay debt down faster by doing so. If not, what's the benefit?  (Our kids loved snowy winters but two have already gone back south and one more is planning that move soon. )

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For me,  it would also depend if I was in a city or someplace rural.  I can do cities with the dark and cold.  Rural would be too hard with the cold-- roads not cleared, isolation making things worse for loneliness.  I lived three years in a country that is further north than MN or ND.  But the winters are much, much milder.  Because of the mildness, we didn't get SAD as bad as we got it in cold and dark places. How is your SAD in NC?  I don't get it at all where I am living now but one of my children, who is much more sensitive, gets it here in the winter. I wouldn't recommend a northern US or even worse Canada job for her.  The biggest thing to consider, I think, is your SAD and if you think any one of your children have it.  SAD seems very heritable.

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I lived in northern North Dakota for two (miserable) winters.  We needed to sink some money into the vehicles in order to install engine block heaters under the hood.  People plug in their cars up there when they aren't running.  Also, I needed a remote starter for my car so I could start it up 20 minutes before leaving the house in order to warm it up for me and the kids.  Even at that, it didn't get "warm" - it merely took the deep chill out of the cabin air.

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Also, I am NOT affected with SAD, but even I had to take extra Vitamin D in the winter and replace the lightbulbs in my house with "natural light" bulbs.  Those who ARE affected with SAD ended up buying "happy lights" to sit underneath for several hours every day.

 

Just another expense I thought I'd bring up.

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...Engine block heaters...

This doesn't seem to be as necessary now. Better cars? Better Fuel injectors? Or something... I have no idea the reason, but it just doesn't happen nearly as much as even 10-15 years ago.

 

I've lived in North Dakota, Minnesota, and Canada with my North Carolina purchased vehicle (no block heater or garage) for 5 plus winters with zero problems. None of my family or friends plug in anymore (no garages) either. Plugging in was very common when I was growing up.

 

Command start is necessary EVERYwhere in my opinion. I use it just as much in NC, AZ, and CA for a/c as I ever do in the north for heat.

 

As far as living in "bad" climate, I don't know. I love the north. Summers are short. Seasons change. It's beautiful. I love rain, snow, cold, cool, wet, warm and dry all for different reasons. I love seasons. It would have to be BIG, BIG money to keep me in the south long term. Waaaay too much summer for my tastes, or too humid where there is actual seasons. I get depressed by too much heat and sun because heat makes me nauseous and sun burns my lily-white skin so I can't be outdoors much at all. I would definitely need "escape" money to get to places with cloudy days and real seasons.

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Well we live somewhere crazy cold and the cost of living is pretty high, but the jobs do pay more. However we are hoping to move somewhere with a similar climate (Maine, Minnesota, etc) and they don't pay quite as much. However they're a LOT cheaper to live and cold weather can be extremely pleasant to live in, it's just a different mindset and different dress code :)

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We moved from the south to a cold climate, thinking it would be 3-5 years. It's been 25.  

 

Is the increased salary going to enable you to pay debt down faster or is it all going to be tied up in increased cost of living?  Snow gear every year for four kids...increased heat costs...you'll probably sign kids up for organized activities to get them out of the house during cold months...larger house than you would buy normally...road trips and vacations...it adds up quickly.   

 

I wouldn't rule out a move north, but would carefully consider whether you'll be able to pay debt down faster by doing so. If not, what's the benefit?  (Our kids loved snowy winters but two have already gone back south and one more is planning that move soon. )

Yes, the salary is significant enough that it would make a difference, even with increased costs. Many of the costs are things we'd be doing or need to do already, just on a larger scale (new car here soon anyways, I travel a lot already, etc.) 

 

For me,  it would also depend if I was in a city or someplace rural.  I can do cities with the dark and cold.  Rural would be too hard with the cold-- roads not cleared, isolation making things worse for loneliness.  I lived three years in a country that is further north than MN or ND.  But the winters are much, much milder.  Because of the mildness, we didn't get SAD as bad as we got it in cold and dark places. How is your SAD in NC?  I don't get it at all where I am living now but one of my children, who is much more sensitive, gets it here in the winter. I wouldn't recommend a northern US or even worse Canada job for her.  The biggest thing to consider, I think, is your SAD and if you think any one of your children have it.  SAD seems very heritable.

 

This is what I've almost decided. There's a job that pays really, really well, but it is rural. Like, 3 hours from a city larger than 20k people rural. I'm thinking that, combined with cold, would be too much for me. The other has more vacation and is in a reasonable-sized city, although for less pay (but still really good). I'm thinking I might be ok to do the latter, but not necessarily the former.

 

No SAD here. I get outside in t-shirts fairly often and it is mostly sunny during the winter. And I spend most of my time right next to a large window! The only place I think I was really affected was in Utah, where it was overcast all winter and the mountains cut off the already scarce sunlight and it was cold.

Edited by Meagan S
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I had worse SAD in the Bay Area than in MN. Yes, it's crazy cold in Minnesota, but the coldest days are actually really sunny. SAD is about light, not heat.

That makes such a HUGE difference. We saw more SAD in Juneau than Anchorage for the same reason. Anchorage is colder, snowier, and further north. But it has a lot less rainy days - when it storms it storms hard, but that's a lot easier to tolerate than constant drizzle and gray. So by going north and less temperate we actually got more sun and better weather overall in terms of light exposure. Go figure!

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Money isn't everything. Living in places with crap weather has it's challenges and expenses. Where the pay is more, there tends to be higher costs elsewhere.

 

"Wouldn't have to be forever, 3-4 years." Famous last words.

Your last line...BWAAHHAHHAHHA! Certainly has been true in my life...

 

"We'll just get this car because it's a good deal. We'll get a better car in a couple years."

"Just let me put this faucet on temporarily, because I already had it sitting in my garage. I'll get you the one you want soon..."

"We'll put the deck on in a few months. We can live without a deck short-term."

 

I could go on.

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Have you lived someplace really cold with lots of snow? I think it is hard to know how you will do, until you have experiences it. But I know the pain of Med school debt. Also, as far as SAD. A really cold snowy place wouldn't necessarily be worse than a moderate rainy place (such as the Pacific Northwest). I lived in super cold and snowy place but really in the winter there were lots of really bright sunny days. More than there are in my current rainy town. Although if you are up in Alaska, the days would be considerably shorter and I would invest in one of those special lights. The other thing is, you've been living frugally for a while I imagine so if he gets well paying job and you continue to live modestly, you can pay down a lot of debt in a short amount of time. And then move in a few years if it is really hard. My husband used to regularly tell me of jobs paying 2x or 3x as much in far off place and I would tell him forget it. For me, being close to family is nonnegotiable at this point and that is a higher priority than weather or money. I also feel like I've paid my dues following him around the country for 10 years of medschool/ residency. Good luck!

 

 

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An starts a practice and tends to stay through retirement. So, unless your dh takes advantage of govt programs that pay off debt through military service or serving through special govt programs, your dh is looking at a job and location that could where you will be very long term.

 

Consider in those northern climates you have expenses you've never considered: heating, good winter clothes, SUVs, engine block heaters, lots of stuff someone in NC never ever thinks about. Add to that, you already talking about a larger travel budget and a larger house. With these extra expenses I'd start evaluating whether you could actually pay off debt faster. You dh may not net any extra income with the extra expenses factored in.

 

Since your dh has a career that tends to plant itself in one location, I'd start thinking seriously about where you'd really want to live. Then I'd try to figure if his salary in that location would work for your budget. Perhaps you'd have a few more lean years than you were hoping, but you may be happier.

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Your last line...BWAAHHAHHAHHA! Certainly has been true in my life...

 

"We'll just get this car because it's a good deal. We'll get a better car in a couple years."

"Just let me put this faucet on temporarily, because I already had it sitting in my garage. I'll get you the one you want soon..."

"We'll put the deck on in a few months. We can live without a deck short-term."

 

I could go on.

 

 

Sing it sister

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Agreeing with others that light matters more than temperature. So say, a place with "lake effect" cloud cover and snow would kill me, but I found Wisconsin fairly pleasant. Sort of...

 

I do remember family trying to talk me into moving to the Dayton area. They sent me a promotional video the city made to encourge people to move there. There wasn't a single sunny day shown in that video!!!! And that was the promotional video!!!!! No way, no how. 

 

I need sun. Cold and sunny, sure, I can live. Gloomy? No. 

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Well, here in Florida, there is a physician shortage. You did not mention what kind of physician your DH is, but, the ones I know are not complaining about pay. Also, if your DH will be in general practice, neurology, radiology, or psychiatry tell him to consider a tele-practice. He can be a physician from the comforts of his home, irrespective of where you live.

 

I would not go anywhere you two do not want to live forever. Once a practice is established, it cannot really be moved to another city.

Edited by Minniewannabe
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An starts a practice and tends to stay through retirement. So, unless your dh takes advantage of govt programs that pay off debt through military service or serving through special govt programs, your dh is looking at a job and location that could where you will be very long term.

 

Consider in those northern climates you have expenses you've never considered: heating, good winter clothes, SUVs, engine block heaters, lots of stuff someone in NC never ever thinks about. Add to that, you already talking about a larger travel budget and a larger house. With these extra expenses I'd start evaluating whether you could actually pay off debt faster. You dh may not net any extra income with the extra expenses factored in.

 

Since your dh has a career that tends to plant itself in one location, I'd start thinking seriously about where you'd really want to live. Then I'd try to figure if his salary in that location would work for your budget. Perhaps you'd have a few more lean years than you were hoping, but you may be happier.

 

Ummm . .what? You think people in NC never, ever think about heat? And that we don't have SUVs? Long term cold is unusual here, but really -- it does get cold. The record low in NC is -34 (yes, that's a negative sign). Granted that was on top of Mt. Mitchell and nobody lives there. But still . . . 

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Having grown up on the Canadian border (NY), I was very happy to have moved south.  I go back and visit, but I'd never go back to live.  The people are nice.  I enjoy the area - in summer - both days.   :lol:

 

Southern PA is as far north as I was willing to live.  Even though we like it here, I still need close to a month around Feb in the south to recharge mentally (probably Vit D).  Years we couldn't do it were tough on us comparatively since we're used to it.  I'm not sure doctors get a lot of time off to do travel like that...

 

My short answer is no - not worth the money or stress - unless you love winter.

 

That said... plenty of folks live in Canada (north of where I grew up), so obviously it can be done.  But when we're here in the south - plenty of Canadians are right alongside of us - often for more than a month.  ;)

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Ummm . .what? You think people in NC never, ever think about heat? And that we don't have SUVs? Long term cold is unusual here, but really -- it does get cold. The record low in NC is -34 (yes, that's a negative sign). Granted that was on top of Mt. Mitchell and nobody lives there. But still . . . 

 

No offense, but there's no comparison in the cold TBH - or related costs.  The only similar overall cost would be more AC needed to replace that used for fuel oil - so heating/cooling overall might cancel each other out.

 

I say that with having grown up in northern NY, hubby in NC, and both of us having lived in RI, VA, FL, and PA.  None compared to northern NY for cold and cold related expenses.  Not even RI, though that was closest.

 

If you want to compare record cold temps, NY appears to be -52, and people live where it happened.  Negative 20s and 30s happened annually when I grew up there - for more than one night - right where I lived.  That record low happened when I lived there too, but in my area it was only in the negative 30s.  I recall walking home from school during that time period... considering there was a wind chill that day, it felt even colder.

 

The OP asked about MN and ND.  The records in those states are -60.

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I could not do it.  I wouldn't do it.  But that doesn't mean it might not be right for you!

 

DH has a fabulous mentor, and we have not completely followed his line of thinking on this - but we've seen the results of his having done so, and it's spectacular - his thoughts are to live in the place you love.  Live where you want to retire, the place that makes your heart sing.  Buy the house you love, where you love it.  And then make the career work around that.

 

Like I said, DH and I are not there - we are not in a bad place, but we're not where my soul put down its roots, and DH's followed - but we have created a pretty amazing space, and hideout, while we do what we need to do in this part of the country (namely, our parents are here, and we feel a need to be close to them, now that they are getting older - we're not moving till much later in our lives).  So, our plan is to vacation in the place we love, to feed our souls, while we live here.  And if we end up here forever, I can handle that.  But I couldn't do it if the place was just not a good fit.  Crazy cold would not be a good fit for me, so that's out.  Fortunately, I'm okay with the climate here.  

 

The thing about spending 3 - 4 years someplace is that it always stretches out.  Always.  Unless you really hate it, and you're working the entire time to Get. Out.  And who wants to live someplace that makes you count down the days till you leave?  Life is too short for that.

Edited by Spryte
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Ummm . .what? You think people in NC never, ever think about heat? And that we don't have SUVs? Long term cold is unusual here, but really -- it does get cold. The record low in NC is -34 (yes, that's a negative sign). Granted that was on top of Mt. Mitchell and nobody lives there. But still . . .

Not the way someone in North Dakota would. I'm in VA. Im not unfamiliar with mountains winter and cold. Despite lots of snow shoveling experience I'm not going to believe for a second I know what cold is compared to North Dakota.

Edited by Diana P.
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I live in Minnesota. As much as I hate January, the rest of the year makes up for it. I love our seasons and all the things you can do outside. Things are pretty affordable here (compared to friends I have in other parts of the country), people are friendly, lots of family friendly things to do, schools are excellent, and great homeschool community/opportunities. 4 wheel drive is nice, but not necessary. I have driven a front wheel drive van for many years, along with countless others here. I truly love it here, but I understand this climate isn't for everyone. If I didn't enjoy winter (skiing, skating, sledding, snow-shoeing, stuck inside doing puzzles during a big snow storm, etc), I wouldn't want to live here. If you are looking at particular areas in MN, let me know.

Edited by Upptacka
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How difficult it would be to move in 3-5 years really depends on your spouses specialty. Yes, it doesn't take a lot of work to establish a practice but so much depends on the area of practice and your location and the location you want to move to later and whether you are employed by a hospital or a private group.

 

 

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What do you think? Dh is looking for his first physician job and our biggest concern is the crazy amount of debt we're in from medical school. Jobs in freezing cold places tend to pay significantly more than jobs in places more temperate. (I'm talking Minnesota/ND, places like that)

 

I'm struggling to figure out if I can do that or if I need to just tell dh no. A little about us:

 

I've moved tons. Moving somewhere new doesn't intimidate me at all. Family is all over the country and I enjoy frequent road trips anyways. I travel all the time with or without dh but with the girls.

 

With the money being significantly better, we could afford a nicer house (less cabin fever while homeschooling?) and vacation to warmer places. So frequent escaping would be non-negotiable.

 

But I really love nice climate. We're in NC now and the girls are outside playing without jackets while trees bloom in our backyard. I've already started our garden! We went camping 2 hours away last week and it was beautiful weather. And I love all of this.

 

I get SAD a little. Not horribly. I noticed it most when I lived in Utah for 5 years. If we did this, I would need to be very careful about that.

 

What sort of requirements would you make if you were moving somewhere that is winter 6mo of the year? What I've thought of are:

 

Decent budget for vacation.

4wd car.

Large, well-lit house with full basement so the kids can run around.

And good budget for winter clothes.

 

Is that enough? Could you do it? Anything I'm not thinking of?

 

It wouldn't have to be forever, but probably 3-5 years.

 

Eta: by more money I mean almost double what we would normally expect.

 

I would focus on places that qualify for ten year Federal Loan Forgiveness and get him onto an income-based repayment plan ASAP. I'm sure some of those are cold. Others are probably very, very hot. Or urban. Or very rural, etc.

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DH is doing a kind of work where he will work for a hospital as an employee. He wont ever set up a practice. So we really can move whenever on whenever we want, just like any other job, especially since doctors are in demand. The average a doctor works for their first job is 5 years. 

 

And yes, I lived in Utah for 5 years. It gets fairly cold/snowy there in the winter. Other than that, though, I've mostly lived in the south or Texas/Oklahoma. 

Thanks for your insights. I'm thinking that cold city is probably ok, because we'd have places we could go to get away from home when we were feeling cabin-fevery, but cold rural might be pushing it for me. 

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I live in NJ, so not super-cold but we do get snow in the winter.  Low temps are usually in the teens but can go lower occasionally.

 

My biggest problem with the cold is I have some old injuries that really hurt in the cold.  Knee problems from high school, a broken wrist, a badly sprained ankle, a broken foot..... you get the idea.    The fact that I'm carrying about 50 extra pounds combined with the injuries means I'm very unstable in the ice and snow.  I HATE going out in bad weather.  But, of course the kids have their activities so I have no choice.

 

 

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Is he going to be a hospitalist? Spectrum Health based out of Grand Rapids, MI is looking for hospitalist that can work up in Big Rapids, MI or other areas. It can be cold and snowy here but cost of living is very reasonable and homeschooling is easy.

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For me, no amount of pay would be worth snow.  I hate cold.  I would be a sobbing miserable mess all of the time.  When it is cooler here, I keep the heater at 73 or so in the house at all times.  This really depends on you and your cold tolerance. 

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"Cold rural" adds another element that I would have a hard time adjusting to. I know some people love it, but being rural in a cold and snowy climate can feel very isolating. I am used to the city snow plows clearing the streets fairly quickly after a storm. And in the Twin Cities area, the kids and I enjoy having lots of indoor things to do when it is too cold to be outside. Museums, indoor parks, climbing walls, water parks, nature centers, etc. In a cold climate, I would really miss living far away from things like that.

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For a slightly different perspective, I'd say that paying off med school debt can be done without moving to a place that you don't necessarily want to be. I came out of med school with a lot of debt. My specialty (pediatrics) is the lowest paid of doctors. I work part-time (about 20 hours a week) and dh also works part-time. He actually makes less than I do, although he works more. He's an architect and they just don't make a lot unless you work for one of the very big top firms. Even both working part-time we have paid off all my debt and live in a very high COL area. We have fully funded retirement and college savings accounts. We just paid it a little a time and didn't live a lifestyle of having more money. We have older cars, we don't have the biggest house that we could have gotten a loan for, we try and make frugal choices, etc. We do travel a lot because that's a priority for us. 

 

I say that not to make it sound like we are so amazing but to say that I think there is more than one way to get to where you want to be. Some people might want more spending money or a nicer house or want to pay off debt very fast. Our perspective has been to live where we want to be even though we know we could financially be better off elsewhere. It's enough, even if we could have more. Similarly, from a purely financial standpoint it would make the most sense for me to work full-time but I don't want to do that. 

 

Make sure your dh checks out "tail insurance" wherever he is going. That might not be as big an issue for hospital-based specialities but for primary care or office based docs it it. Basically it means that when you move on, you have to pay a lump sum to cover any future malpractice suits. For example, if I left my current practice I would have to pay something like $60,000 in one lump sum.  I didn't know about it when I was leaving residency or I would have negotiated having it covered by my employers after a certain amount of time. I'm happy where I am so it's ok for me but it definitely can make it financially hard to leave. 

 

Edited by Alice
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Consider in those northern climates you have expenses you've never considered: heating, good winter clothes, SUVs, engine block heaters, lots of stuff someone in NC never ever thinks about. Add to that, you already talking about a larger travel budget and a larger house. With these extra expenses I'd start evaluating whether you could actually pay off debt faster. You dh may not net any extra income with the extra expenses factored in.

 

Meh. I know lots of people who don't have SUVs or block heaters. As long as you have a battery with enough cold cranking amps, you really don't need to plug your vehicle in, especially if you park it in an attached garage. And I drive an Impala, and had a Ford Focus before this, so you can get by just fine with a car. Having good tires is way more important than having a big, heavy vehicle. The nice thing about living in a place that has six months of winter is that, unless you live way out there, the cities are good at keeping the roads plowed and sanded or salted.

 

That reminds me, though- one other thing to take into account is that northern winters are harder on vehicles. Road salt will make your vehicle rust faster, and the plowing is hard on the streets and so we tend to have more potholes. Something to keep in mind, OP, if you're the type who buys a vehicle and drives it until it dies.

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Consider in those northern climates you have expenses you've never considered: heating, good winter clothes, SUVs, engine block heaters, lots of stuff someone in NC never ever thinks about. Add to that, you already talking about a larger travel budget and a larger house. 

 

I live in the cold mid-west, and lots of those things are kind of non-issues.

 

heating - Obviously an expense, but on the flip side, we run our air conditioner for about 10 days a year compared to my in-laws in NC who runs theirs non-stop for 4+ months...and it's not like they don't have to also pay to heat their house for several months a year as well.

 

good winter clothes - Local thrift stores are filled with the items that local residents buy and use.  I buy my kids good, brand name winter gear used for a couple bucks an item.  

 

SUVs - I have lived in Michigan for much of the last 36 years and have never owned an SUV.

 

engine block heaters - not around here.

 

larger house - In my neck of the woods, housing prices are cheap.  I just looked up a comparison of Grand Rapids, MI and Asheville, NC (just pulled that city out of thin air).  The average income here is 15% higher (and OP indicates that for her husband it would be much higher than that), but the average house sold costs 42% less. 

 

It really is kind of miserable around here sometimes.  The winter is long, getting kids dressed to play outside takes half an hour (with another 30 minutes and a pile of wet, muddy clothes when they come inside), the parks are closed 6 months a year, etc...but we manage, and spring always comes eventually.

 

Wendy

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I would focus on places that qualify for ten year Federal Loan Forgiveness and get him onto an income-based repayment plan ASAP. I'm sure some of those are cold. Others are probably very, very hot. Or urban. Or very rural, etc.

Yes! This seems like the best idea because you could probably go just about anywhere, as so many hospitals are nonprofits. A lower salary wouldn't matter because you're just paying based on income and after ten years the rest is forgiven.

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Do NOT move where you'll be miserable half your life. SAD is real. You'll pay more for heat, vehicles, clothes, shoes, and gain weight because "comfort food" season is longer. I HATE winter and ours has been mild this year. (I'm in the mid-atlantic.) shoveling snow just sucks. Being stuck snide with a bunch of kids who are upset that their activity was cancelled for snow sucks. Wearing an entire basket full of clothes at once just to leave the house sucks.

 

Better to have a smaller house in a place where you can do some of your living outside. A week of sunny vacation does not negate SIX MONTHS of winter. You won't just leave in a few years. What if nobody else WANTS a big house in a crappy climate and it takes you ages to sell. People have a way of getting stuck for all sorts of reasons. Live somewhere you love.thers never really more money in these situations. You'll get there and find that something you didn't anticipate is more expensive than you imagined. Or they ar offering more because turnover is high because everyone is miserable and leaves. Don't do it.

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