Advice needed - 10th grade schedule (workload/APs, APUSH, etc)

[mirabillis]

OK I thought I had it all figured out, like a huge jigsaw puzzle. Now I'm second guessing myself. Can you please give me your advice on my possible schedules? Mind you, we are UC-hopefuls, so need to think of a-g requirements (for us, that means AP exams or SAT II subj tests). So the question really is - US History for 10th grade. Take the regular 1x/wk course with WTMA and take the SAT II subj test in June - OR - take the well-lauded APUSH via PAH and take the AP exam. I guess the question is - how many APs are too many? And how much difference is the actual workload via PAH APUSH and for example, regular US Hist at WTMA?

 

Any advice?

 

PLAN A:

10th grade

Math:      WHA Pre-calc

English:  Lit-Center for Lit / Comp-WriteatHome or IEW at home

Science: AP Chem (PAH)

History:   WTMA US History (SAT II subj test)

Lang:      Span 2 (HSA)

Elective:  AP Macro (PAH) - fall semester

Elective:  AP Micro (self-study) - spring semester (* could possible slough off if schedule is feeling hectic in spring)

**2 PAH AP courses / 1 selfstudy AP course = 3 AP exams / 1 SAT II

 

OR

 

PLAN B:

Math:      WHA Pre-calc

English:  Lit-Center for Lit / Comp-WriteatHome or IEW at home

Science: AP Chem (PAH)

History:   APUSH (PAH)

Lang:      Span 2 (HSA)

Elective:  AP Macro (PAH) - fall semester

Elective:  AP Micro (self-study) - spring semester (* could possible slough off if schedule is feeling hectic in spring)

**3 PAH AP courses / 1 selfstudy AP course = 4 AP exams / no SAT II

 

 

[Lilaclady]

If your student can handle it, I will prefer the Apush to the SAT because you can get credit for the AP but no credit for the SAT and the difference in study is not huge.

[mjbucks1]

I agree with Likaclady. My dd is taking APUSH and AP Chem with PAH this year, and while it is a lot of work, it is not overly difficult. She is a competitive swimmer and so she swims 15-18 hours/week. If she did not have this activity I could easily add another AP class to her schedule. I have also heard that AP macro/micro are noy too work intensive, so I would opt to take APUSH and get the credit.

[mirabillis]

you guys are awesome. that's what i was thinking... i told you that *you* were talking me into taking APUSH b/c of your rave reviews!! Turning my head, indeed! LOL

 

Anyone else?

[daijobu]

Okay, I'll provide a dissenting opinion.  If you are hoping to score a 5, AP chem is a lot of work.  AP chem was my daughter's only AP last year (her freshman year).  But AP chem was her number one priority and the course she devoted much of her academic attention to.  OTOH, she had not had high school chemistry prior, so she was essentially learning everything for the very first time.  

 

I'm not familiar with APUSH, but if you need to pair it with another AP, I'd pick something easy or something your student is already familiar with.  (Has your student already studied high school US history?)  If your student has already had high school chemistry, she will probably not need to study as much as my dd.  Also, if you are going to be happy with a lower score, then you probably can afford to divide your time among other challenging classes.  YMMV!  

[mjbucks1]

Yes, that is a good point about chemistry. My dd took a regular chemistry class last year which has prepared her well for AP Chem. Also, I just need her to get 4's on the exams. As a point of reference, my oldest son took AP Chem as a freshman and scored a 4 on the AP exam and 750 on he SAT II subject test. I *think* most kids who take the Chem SAT II subject test also take AP Chem. So your child really could take both exams and use whichever score is higher. You could do the same with history. I will also add my ds was much more academically minded than my dd, but my dd is really enjoying both classes and doing well.

[...................]

I would not do that many AP unless your child really loves history, it will be a very very difficult year. I've heard AP Chem is one of the hardest, if Not THE hardest AP test...

 

I would even consider skipping the SAT subject test and fulfill your a-g req by doing an a-g approved history course.  There are quite a few, at G3, or silicon valley onling high school, etc.

[counselinggirl]

I would not do that many AP unless your child really loves history, it will be a very very difficult year. I've heard AP Chem is one of the hardest, if Not THE hardest AP test...

 

I would even consider skipping the SAT subject test and fulfill your a-g req by doing an a-g approved history course.  There are quite a few, at G3, or silicon valley onling high school, etc.

 

I spent hours last night looking at ONLINEG3's a-g approved courses and the accompanying textbooks. I am just not familiar with the provider and always thought the classes were for younger kids. Can you provide me with any information on the provider? Rigor? How much work? How many hours a week? Teachers? IF your child enjoyed the class? I don't know anyone who has used G3 and I had previously read other reviews on the board from years past. I know they were recently accredited and provide the a-g courses. Any recent experience would be super helpful....particularily with the Advanced World History and Advanced US History courses. Thank you! :)

[...................]

Sorry, no advice on G3 :(  

[RootAnn]

Halcyon has a son taking at least one from OnlineG3 this semester, I think.

 

I've always gotten the impression that it is mostly younger kids, that there is a lot of busywork (that may not be necessary to actually do), lots of discussion among the kids, and not a huge level of rigor. (I might have my high school DD take one of their Shakespeare classes because it interests her but only as one part of an English credit.) But, I really don't know. I believe the "teen focus" classes are supposed to be only older kids & perhaps higher rigor??

[Job121]

Yes, that is a good point about chemistry. My dd took a regular chemistry class last year which has prepared her well for AP Chem. 

AP Chem does require lots of memorization. Like mjucks1 said, have your student take AP Chem and SAT II Chem at the same year could be another solution. 

 

Susan Richman does a great job with APUSH, but that class takes up many hours. That is another thing to be considered. 

[mirabillis]

Okay, I'll provide a dissenting opinion.  If you are hoping to score a 5, AP chem is a lot of work.  AP chem was my daughter's only AP last year (her freshman year).  But AP chem was her number one priority and the course she devoted much of her academic attention to.  OTOH, she had not had high school chemistry prior, so she was essentially learning everything for the very first time.  

 

I'm not familiar with APUSH, but if you need to pair it with another AP, I'd pick something easy or something your student is already familiar with.  (Has your student already studied high school US history?)  If your student has already had high school chemistry, she will probably not need to study as much as my dd.  Also, if you are going to be happy with a lower score, then you probably can afford to divide your time among other challenging classes.  YMMV!  

 

Great advice (all around!) I am still toying with all the ideas. Daijobu, I see your dd is taking a WTMA History (different time period, but history). How is the workload on that? If we take WTMA US Hist, then it's a difference in how much work throughout the year, if there's much difference. 

 

APUSH sounds so great, but I really don't think we could put it with 11th grade as that year we have planned a pretty heavy schedule already (AP Calc AB, AP Eng Lang, AP Physics 1/2 or DO Physics)... So I think a heavy history would be too much. There's ALSO the option of auditing the course with Mr. Burns (PAH) which would teach him as much, but eliminate some of the workload... He could then still take the AP test and get a-g credit for a passing grade. We're shooting for 4's as well - we don't need 5s. That would just be gravy!

 

As for a-g approved US History courses, that is a possibility. I won't do siliconvalleyonline high school as we registered for 1-semester of Span, and it was a joke. I can't even bring myself to do that again for US Hist and really believe we'll get 'a-g' credit for it. Maybe onlineg3 - I could look into that. I too got confused with that as it looked like it was geared toward gifted younger students.

 

Oy!

 

P.S....

 

Just checked onlineg3. The only 2 history courses a-g approved are:

Advanced World History with Writing

Big History Project World History

 

and both of those satisfy: World History / Cultures / Historical Geography  (not US History) we've got a-g coverage World History via AP Human Geography. So no dice on that front!

Edited February 24, 2017 by mirabillis

[obsidian]

FWIW, AP Macro with PAH is not very time intensive. I self studied for AP Micro after taking AP Macro at PAH and it did not take much time at all. I basically studied using two prep books the month or two before the test (might not be recommended strategy, but I did get a 5).

[mirabillis]

FWIW is very helpful. I understand the games can be time-consuming, but my computer-loving/math-loving son will love those. What was your week-to-week courseload? That's hopeful! We too are planning to self-study AP Micro as well. I understand Macro/Micro have a lot of synergies. And I'm good with your strategies. A 5 is a 5 on a subject we're just trying to checkmark a box... ;)

[mirabillis]

I think I'm now leaning back toward my long original thought to do WTMA History (regular not advanced) and take the SAT II test. I can't compare the courseload apples to apples, but my son does really like a live teacher. And while APUSH comes so highly regarded, I need him to continue stepping gingerly into the world of asynchronous PAH classes and next year we'll do that with AP Chem. (He's taking 1 this year and it is not his favorite class so he doesn't feel too fondly of PAH currently). But what I do know, aside from coursework concerns, the SAT II test will be much easier (1 hr multiple choice) as opposed to the 3 hour AP (w/essay). So there's at least that, easier prep at end of year.

 

But... I welcome any other opinions for/against or otherwise. Just your thoughts on the above schedule for me!!! 

 

Thanks for helping me out. Sometimes I toy with ideas so much, research backwards & forwards, making myself crazy, it's nice to throw the idea to the Hive and get your advice. :)

 

Thanks!!!!

[counselinggirl]

Halcyon has a son taking at least one from OnlineG3 this semester, I think.

 

I've always gotten the impression that it is mostly younger kids, that there is a lot of busywork (that may not be necessary to actually do), lots of discussion among the kids, and not a huge level of rigor. (I might have my high school DD take one of their Shakespeare classes because it interests her but only as one part of an English credit.) But, I really don't know. I believe the "teen focus" classes are supposed to be only older kids & perhaps higher rigor??

 

Thanks, RootAnn!

 

I tried to message Halcyon but was unable to. I posted on another forum post where she references OnlineG3 so hopefully she will see it! 

 

I always had the same impression about OnlineG3; however, since they are now accredited and a-g course approved I was wondering if some of the class dynamics have changed. Some of the "advanced" offerings (US History, World, Biology) are aimed at teens who are working at an advanced high school level and the courses are using college texts. So I am hoping that maybe those classes are a bit different in rigor but still interesting and fun. Still trying to compose my email to the director at Onlineg3 (keep getting distracted) and will post her response if its applicable. :)

[counselinggirl]

 

Great advice (all around!) I am still toying with all the ideas. Daijobu, I see your dd is taking a WTMA History (different time period, but history). How is the workload on that? If we take WTMA US Hist, then it's a difference in how much work throughout the year, if there's much difference. 

 

APUSH sounds so great, but I really don't think we could put it with 11th grade as that year we have planned a pretty heavy schedule already (AP Calc AB, AP Eng Lang, AP Physics 1/2 or DO Physics)... So I think a heavy history would be too much. There's ALSO the option of auditing the course with Mr. Burns (PAH) which would teach him as much, but eliminate some of the workload... He could then still take the AP test and get a-g credit for a passing grade. We're shooting for 4's as well - we don't need 5s. That would just be gravy!

 

As for a-g approved US History courses, that is a possibility. I won't do siliconvalleyonline high school as we registered for 1-semester of Span, and it was a joke. I can't even bring myself to do that again for US Hist and really believe we'll get 'a-g' credit for it. Maybe onlineg3 - I could look into that. I too got confused with that as it looked like it was geared toward gifted younger students.

 

Oy!

 

P.S....

 

Just checked onlineg3. The only 2 history courses a-g approved are:

Advanced World History with Writing

Big History Project World History

 

and both of those satisfy: World History / Cultures / Historical Geography  (not US History) we've got a-g coverage World History via AP Human Geography. So no dice on that front!

 

Sorry Mirabillis! I saw US History and thought it was the Advanced Course-was the elective US movie course.....sounds like your plan to stick with WTMA is a good one! 

 

Hoping Daijobu sees your question about WTMA history! :) Looks like her DD is taking Renaissance and Early Modern World History.  That is the course my DD is interested in for next year and I would love more info too about the class itself (enjoying), workload, etc.

[...................]

Bummer.

 

Well my own boy just today absolutely decided he is not taking the A-g route.  It's over. Lots of reasons I won't go into on someone else's thread...

 

BUT if you really need an A-G US History you can look at SIlicon Valley Online HIgh School.  They do provide official transcripts.  THe course is easy and usually fun, and only costs 100.00 for the whole year...

[mirabillis]

Sorry to hear that, Calming Tea. :( But not going a-g has its perks and hopefully will open up a world of limitless learning possibilities for you two.

[obsidian]

FWIW is very helpful. I understand the games can be time-consuming, but my computer-loving/math-loving son will love those. What was your week-to-week courseload? That's hopeful! We too are planning to self-study AP Micro as well. I understand Macro/Micro have a lot of synergies. And I'm good with your strategies. A 5 is a 5 on a subject we're just trying to checkmark a box... ;)

It looks like you already decided on a different courseload but AP Macro was about an hour a day most weeks and sometimes less. I really enjoyed the games as well. (The one thing about PAH that I actually liked is that you'll always find people taking more AP's/DE classes than you are and it makes you feel better about your own workload. :p)

[dirty ethel rackham]

One other option if it is available to you ... can you do chemistry dual enrollment? I'd actually prefer a live class for lab science and to history with PAH. AP Chem is a hard class with a ton of work, probably more work than a comparable college course. My kids loved APUSH with Mr. Burns. They felt that they had plenty of feedback as well as interaction with other students since it is part of the weekly checklist.

 

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[mirabillis]

Thanks for the thoughts. It's an idea - but we're holding off on DE until Jr year. We had a friend locally here on the boards just take a DE Chem class and do well. But he said it took a lot of his time, and of course, as a DE course, grades are set in stone. I'm hesitant to start that. Esp as we are keeping about a 3 AP courseload per year - and plan to keep that as we're striving toward National AP Scholar. We'll see.

 

So plan is still AP Chem, AP Macro, & self study AP Micro like STEM. Still debating the USH angle. Until I sign up with something, nothing's set in stone. :)

 

I know Mr Burns also offers an audit option - which could conceivably lessen some of the workload. That's possibly an option too. How was the AP exam, dirty ethel rackham? I mean, how much studying did it take - and how did your dc do?

 

How does the learning work with Mr Burns? Mostly reading the book - how is that fashioned?

[madteaparty]

Halcyon has a son taking at least one from OnlineG3 this semester, I think.

 

I've always gotten the impression that it is mostly younger kids, that there is a lot of busywork (that may not be necessary to actually do), lots of discussion among the kids, and not a huge level of rigor. (I might have my high school DD take one of their Shakespeare classes because it interests her but only as one part of an English credit.) But, I really don't know. I believe the "teen focus" classes are supposed to be only older kids & perhaps higher rigor??

I can only speak to the lit / English classes and I agree with this assessment. I can't imagine my child doing these in high school (but he is an liberal arts kid, fwiw). Of course, they are great fun, extracurricular classes though and we're always in one or another. Edited February 25, 2017 by madteaparty

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thanks for the thoughts. It's an idea - but we're holding off on DE until Jr year. We had a friend locally here on the boards just take a DE Chem class and do well. But he said it took a lot of his time, and of course, as a DE course, grades are set in stone. I'm hesitant to start that. Esp as we are keeping about a 3 AP courseload per year - and plan to keep that as we're striving toward National AP Scholar. We'll see.

 

So plan is still AP Chem, AP Macro, & self study AP Micro like STEM. Still debating the USH angle. Until I sign up with something, nothing's set in stone. :)

 

I know Mr Burns also offers an audit option - which could conceivably lessen some of the workload. That's possibly an option too. How was the AP exam, dirty ethel rackham? I mean, how much studying did it take - and how did your dc do?

 

How does the learning work with Mr Burns? Mostly reading the book - how is that fashioned?

An advantage of a DE class vs. an AP class is that the DE class is not dependent on one exam for college credit.  If your kid is sick or is having an off day, that can mean the difference between a 3 and a 5. 

 

The AP exam has changed significantly since my kids took it.  There is less memorization for the multiple choice, and there are more essays, which means more synthesis of the information and more opportunities to gain points by successfully arguing their position.  I am sure that the PAH classes have adjusted for that.  My older kids were well-prepared for the US History exam mostly by doing the class work.  I really don't think they did extra work to study for the exam. Both of my older kids received a 4 on this exam because this was the first "humanities" AP exam they had taken where they had to do a bunch of essay writing - not their favorite thing.  But, the incremental approach in the syllabus did help them make vast improvements to their writing under timed circumstances.  They both went on to get 5's on the AP World History Exam the following year. 

 

As far as workload for the class, again, this was 4-5 years ago.  There was quite a bit of reading for the class ... textbook, original source documents etc.  I think they usually spent about 5 - 6 hours a week on the class.  Some weeks less.  Some more.  But, the syllabus was very detailed and made it easy to plan for those busier weeks.