Sonlight vs. TOG- The curriculum that gets done is the best

[bethben]

I am wondering about the educational level that can be achieved with Sonlight.  I am coming from Tapestry of Grace where the questions for 6th grade and up are excellent and really get a child to think and process.  On the other hand, I have a child who really needs help learning how to answer those types of questions.  Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to teach my child how to do that.  Part of the problem may also be he's just not ready.  Someone once said the best curriculum is the one that gets done.  Sonlight gets done in our house right now.  Can I expect at the end to have a well educated child who's ready to tackle college if he goes that direction?

[jewellsmommy]

I love TOG, but I know what you mean. I only used Sonlight in K, but I know quite a few moms who used Sonlight for the majority of their dc's education. Of those families, I know of dc who have gone off to college and one who has been accepted for next year. They are great kids who seem well educated.

 

I suspect, though, that the bigger picture is making education a priority and a lifelong process in your home. I believe you can achieve the same results with a myriad of tools at home or in brick and mortar schools.  :001_smile:

[bethben]

I've had my oldest disabled son come home due to a horrible situation in his public school classroom. He is a full time job in himself. It's upset the balance we had going on here and I'm trying to figure out how to make it work better.

 

 

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[forty-two]

I definitely agree that Sonlight which gets done is going to do far more to cultivate "a well educated child who's ready to tackle college" than TOG which doesn't get done.  Whether it's "enough" depends on how you define "enough".

 

Is this your ds12?  If so, you've got a lot of time.  Sonlight this year and next doesn't have to mean Sonlight forever.  Or, if TOG is one of those things that you can't jump back into very well, in that you needed to be doing TOG all along to build up the skills to tackle the next level - than could you run TOG a year or so behind, to both give him more time to be ready for the harder questions and give him more practice at learning the precursor skills he'll need to be able to do those harder questions?  IDK which does more of what you want, Sonlight at level or TOG a year or so behind, but it's something to consider, if you really like TOG but it's not working at level right now.

 

If you know where you want to end up, then you could evaluate his progress in Sonlight based on how much progress he's making towards those goals.  So if in a year or two, he's not where he needs to be at the end of 8th in order to end 12th where you're aiming, say, then you'd know and could supplement Sonlight or switch from Sonlight.

[bethben]

I've been having him write out answers to the questions for Sonlight books. It bugs me that they're all just comprehension questions rather than true dialectic questions, but I feel like he just needs work in that level a bit more. I've always had pretty high standards for our homeschool and I'm wondering how much I could let go and still give my children a decent education. I feel like on the homeschool intensity bell curve, I would be around the 80-90th percentile from what I've experienced with those around me. I'm just having a hard time feeling like I'm slipping closer to average. But, I think it's what I can manage right now.

 

 

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[Zoo Keeper]

I think SL is fine for most families for high school.    Really.   I know that is heresy to many of the high-fliers on this board, but the reality is that SL is a *tool* that can provide a rich and wide experience for most families.  So could TOG.  Or MFW.  Or ____.    

 

If you want to add in more explicit analysis, SWB's audio lectures (the Great Books one, the Literary Analysis one, and others)  are a great place to start.  Many of the questions are also listed in WTM or WEM.  I add in WTM style questions and writing to whatever booklist or curriculum I'm using. 

 

If you need SL's schedules to some of the "heavy lifting"  around your home school, there is no shame in that.  Trust me. :)  I have a few children who suck the life out of me mentally and emotionally.  I love them.  They demand a lot from me.  I have learned that I  *cannot* expect that all of us will be running all subjects on all cylinders all the time.  Just can't do it.  Sometimes, good enough *IS* good enough. 

[freesia]

I have friends whose dd used Sonlight all the way through and she is at Taylor now in their honor's program. So, I think it is definitely fine  She has another friend at Taylor who used Sonlight (I don't know if that girl is in the honor's program).  My friend's dd also got into Wheaton and Gordon.  (She only applied to 3 schools and got into all of them).

 

I used Sonlight for years and loved it. TOG works best for us right now and I do love the questions and discussions. However, I would return to Sonlight if TOG stopped working.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'll give you some tips for beefing up Sonlight *a little* without causing yourself a lot of work:

 

1. Swap in better study guides sometimes:

 

For cores from the Eastern Hemisphere (used to be called Core 5) through Core 100, choose two books per semester to study more slowly, using Glencoe study guides (free online) instead of the Sonlight notes. Skip two or three other books, in order to take this time to go deeper.

 

The Glencoe guides are NOT as in-depth as Tapestry of Grace, but they are entirely adequate for 5th through 9th grade.

 

Then for the high school cores, do the same but use Pink Monkey or Cummings guides (also free online). They are solidly high school level, and challenging.

 

For Core 100, totally ignore John Holtzmann's notes, unless you actually agree with him and also don't mind the verbosity. Joy Hakim's books are mainstream. They don't need the liberalness debated, because they are just not that liberal. Just use the Sonlight notes for timeline dates. Hewitt Homeschooling sells a one year syllabus that is very good; it includes projects, essay topics, and tests.

 

Finally, don't forget you can use SWB's questions-by-genre for any book, to elicit a more in-depth discussion.

 

2. Write more.

 

For upper elementary cores (4-6), I like to have my students write a little each day.

 

Monday - copywork from literature (the reader of the week)

Tuesday - outline a few history paragraphs, WTM style

Wednesday - rewrite from yesterday's outline

Thursday - narrate from literature (the read-aloud of the week) - there'll frequently be a narration question in the IG that would make a good writing prompt for students old enough to write their narrations.

Friday - summary (we either make a summary page from a history encyclopedia, or make a poster, or do a project or something; you can find good projects in Laurie Carlson and David C. King activity books which are frequently in public libraries.)

 

For cores 7, the creative writing assignments are good, but I usually do them a week behind, because the scheduling is weird. The student hasn't even finished the reading yet, usually, on the week that these are assigned! The student is probably already writing with their English course at this point; if not, consider finding something with which to supplement.

 

For high school, do the Sonlight writing assignments but also choose something else to teach writing. I like Lively Art of Writing and Write Shop I and II.

 

3. Upgrade the maps.

 

I like Map Trek by Knowledge Quest. On their website, you can find correlation guides for Story of the World (which Sonlight uses in the sixth and seventh grade cores), and Hakim's Story of US (Core 100). Find the same topic, but use Map Trek's instructions instead of just plotting the locations.

 

4. Consider using some documentaries and lectures, and even movies, to flesh out history understanding.

 

I like Professor Joanne Freeman's (Yale) American Revolution course (MOOC). See also Great Courses, free stuff on art history at Khan Academy's smART history site, Youtube. The Sonlight forums used to have "gravy" threads for each of the middle to high school cores, where people contribute their best links.

 

I hope something in here is useful! I know in the past, Sonlight's grad success threads were as impressive as our threads here on the WTM forums. It can work. I don't think you necessarily need everything I've suggested here, but I do feel that my child who used Sonlight was better educated with these upgrades than he would have been without them. Pick and choose what's most important to you. During the busiest weeks, remember you don't have to add anything at all. Don't kill yourself over supplementing, or you'll undo the benefit of an open and go curriculum, of course!

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tibbie Dunbar

[bethben]

I'll give you some tips for beefing up Sonlight *a little* without causing yourself a lot of work:

 

1. Swap in better study guides sometimes:

 

For cores from the Eastern Hemisphere (used to be called Core 5) through Core 100, choose two books per semester to study more slowly, using Glencoe study guides (free online) instead of the Sonlight notes. Skip two or three other books, in order to take this time to go deeper.

 

The Glencoe guides are NOT as in-depth as Tapestry of Grace, but they are entirely adequate for 5th through 9th grade.

 

Then for the high school cores, do the same but use Pink Monkey or Cummings guides (also free online). They are solidly high school level, and challenging.

 

For Core 100, totally ignore John Holtzmann's notes, unless you actually agree with him and also don't mind the verbosity. Joy Hakim's books are mainstream. They don't need the liberalness debated, because they are just not that liberal. Just use the Sonlight notes for timeline dates. Hewitt Homeschooling sells a one year syllabus that is very good; it includes projects, essay topics, and tests.

 

Finally, don't forget you can use SWB's questions-by-genre for any book, to elicit a more in-depth discussion.

 

 

 

3. Upgrade the maps.

 

I like Map Trek by Knowledge Quest. On their website, you can find correlation guides for Story of the World (which Sonlight uses in the sixth and seventh grade cores), and Hakim's Story of US (Core 100). Find the same topic, but use Map Trek's instructions instead of just plotting the locations.

 

4. Consider using some documentaries and lectures, and even movies, to flesh out history understanding.

 

I like Professor Joanne Freeman's (Yale) American Revolution course (MOOC). See also Great Courses, free stuff on art history at Khan Academy's smART history site, Youtube. The Sonlight forums used to have "gravy" threads for each of the middle to high school cores, where people contribute their best links.

 

I hope something in here is useful! I know in the past, Sonlight's grad success threads were as impressive as our threads here on the WTM forums. It can work. I don't think you necessarily need everything I've suggested here, but I do feel that my child who used Sonlight was better educated with these upgrades than he would have been without them. Pick and choose what's most important to you. During the busiest weeks, remember you don't have to add anything at all. Don't kill yourself over supplementing, or you'll undo the benefit of an open and go curriculum, of course!

 

All of the above are great suggestions!  I already do a separate writing curriculum with the 12 year old since I like online/ other people's input for my children for 6th grade and up.  I may start with the maps and videos since I did want to do more with maps and I had thought about using documentaries also.  I didn't realize how Map Trek co-ordinated with different programs.  This all may happen next year since my husband is seeing an overloaded wife and thinks the Charter school two blocks away could be a nice option.  

[8Arrows4theLord]

I agree 100% with Tibbie Dunbar! She has some great ideas!

If you are feeling overloaded, is it possible for your 16 yr. old help with the 9 yr. old occasionally, or for your 9 & 12 yr. olds to work together for some subjects (same assignment/ topic, different levels)?