Can I say something offensive here??

[Reefgazer]

I agree with you; often, the least complicated/most likely option is not "sensory processing disorder" or "adrenal fatigue".  But we are a country that demands a "diagnosis" so that we don't have to take responsibility for stupidity, laziness, or bitchiness.

I know this will sound offensive but I don't mean it to be. Really.

I read people post on this board about issues with kids, husbands, MILs, etc. and SO OFTEN the response is therapy/medication/counselor/anxiety/executive function issues, etc.

Can't kids just be lazy?
Can't MIL just be a bitch?
Can't a husband just be an ass?

Why is every issue a disorder in need of specialized help? I get that sometimes that is that case but, imo, more often than not, the kid is just a lazy turd trying to get away with being lazy and MIL is just a bitch because bad behavior gets attention.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by reefgazer

[SarahW]

I don't think recognizing an underlying problem excuses behavior.

 

My mother is mean. Not as in not nice, but MEAN. She's a bully, she demeans others constantly (she also name-calls inanimate objects, which is sadly funny), she has a sadistic streak.

 

I also know that she has a LD, she was abused in school because of it. She was abused by others as well (emotionally, maybe more). She likely has lower than average IQ. She had to care for her mother slowly dying of cancer as a teen while her dad ran around with other women.

 

I can understand it now, but it doesn't change how much I suffered as a child who bore the brunt of all her emotional frustrations and problems. What was even worse than that, however, was how much my pain seemed to be invisible to others. I'd overhear my mom complain to other women at church about her "dirty rotten kids" and she'd get hugs and advice to just crack down on us harder. I'd try to tell people how I felt, but as a kid how do you process that you are being bullied by your own mother? I'd say "Mom is mean to me" and I'd get patted on the head and told "Oh, every kid says that, just wait till you're older and see that she's right." How incredibly invalidating, and how incredibly psychologically insulting.

 

Now that I am older, I see how troubled she is. I also will never leave my children alone in her care, no matter how many times she offers to take them for a week to "straighten them up" with her belt. Yeah, she's one who believes ADHD, ASD, and etc. are just "excuses" for sin, and can be cured with "a good beating" (her words). I just want to yell YEAH, BECAUSE THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WORKED OUT WELL FOR YOU, HASN'T IT!!!!!

 

Deep psychological issues there.

 

FWIW - not everyone at church was fooled by her pious "bad kids" spiel, but enough people were willing to enable her, and allow her to frequently teach children's classes, that I now see that she was the source of some major tensions in that church. But no one was willing to say anything supportive to me, parental rights, stay-out-of-other-parents-business, not my problem, don't get involved, don't rock the boat, etc. were more important, I guess.

 

And yes, she did go to counseling for a few times, though only to select Christian counselors (psychology=evil in her world). But she never got past the first few sessions. My DH (who has done work in psychology and counseling) says it's probably because at the 3rd or so session is when the counselor says "Ok, so everyone else is bad, but what can you do to change your behavior?" Yeah, that probably didn't go over well with her.

 

So it is a both/and. My mother is highly troubled in her head. She has also resisted developing a healthy mind. I myself have to deal every day with the psychological problems she dumped into my own head (so does DH and my kids, but I try to keep that from being daily). I live on a different continent from her, and that makes me a bit happy. I can tell people either version of her - She's a mean bully. She's psychologically troubled. Both are true. But it's complicated.

 

[Elfknitter.#]

Didn't read all the responses.

 

Yes, it could be what you suggested, and sometimes it won't.

 

Unfortunately, chat boards remove emotional understanding to know which is which.

 

So, why not be inclusive and understand that while a spouse might be dismissive, a person's slighted feeling is just pms, or yes, that driver was an ass, on occasion, perhaps, something larger is at play and that's ok. It's ok that your perception or feelings are larger than the norm and you need more. A lot of people don't get that support from their friends or relatives and perhaps, a chat board can offer that bit more for those who are in need.

[DawnM]

I don't think recognizing an underlying problem excuses behavior.

 

My mother is mean. Not as in not nice, but MEAN. She's a bully, she demeans others constantly (she also name-calls inanimate objects, which is sadly funny), she has a sadistic streak.

 

I also know that she has a LD, she was abused in school because of it. She was abused by others as well (emotionally, maybe more). She likely has lower than average IQ. She had to care for her mother slowly dying of cancer as a teen while her dad ran around with other women.

 

I can understand it now, but it doesn't change how much I suffered as a child who bore the brunt of all her emotional frustrations and problems. What was even worse than that, however, was how much my pain seemed to be invisible to others. I'd overhear my mom complain to other women at church about her "dirty rotten kids" and she'd get hugs and advice to just crack down on us harder. I'd try to tell people how I felt, but as a kid how do you process that you are being bullied by your own mother? I'd say "Mom is mean to me" and I'd get patted on the head and told "Oh, every kid says that, just wait till you're older and see that she's right." How incredibly invalidating, and how incredibly psychologically insulting.

 

Now that I am older, I see how troubled she is. I also will never leave my children alone in her care, no matter how many times she offers to take them for a week to "straighten them up" with her belt. Yeah, she's one who believes ADHD, ASD, and etc. are just "excuses" for sin, and can be cured with "a good beating" (her words). I just want to yell YEAH, BECAUSE THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WORKED OUT WELL FOR YOU, HASN'T IT!!!!!

 

Deep psychological issues there.

 

FWIW - not everyone at church was fooled by her pious "bad kids" spiel, but enough people were willing to enable her, and allow her to frequently teach children's classes, that I now see that she was the source of some major tensions in that church. But no one was willing to say anything supportive to me, parental rights, stay-out-of-other-parents-business, not my problem, don't get involved, don't rock the boat, etc. were more important, I guess.

 

And yes, she did go to counseling for a few times, though only to select Christian counselors (psychology=evil in her world). But she never got past the first few sessions. My DH (who has done work in psychology and counseling) says it's probably because at the 3rd or so session is when the counselor says "Ok, so everyone else is bad, but what can you do to change your behavior?" Yeah, that probably didn't go over well with her.

 

So it is a both/and. My mother is highly troubled in her head. She has also resisted developing a healthy mind. I myself have to deal every day with the psychological problems she dumped into my own head (so does DH and my kids, but I try to keep that from being daily). I live on a different continent from her, and that makes me a bit happy. I can tell people either version of her - She's a mean bully. She's psychologically troubled. Both are true. But it's complicated.

 

Wait, I didn't know we were sisters.

 

My mother thinks we should have spanked my Aspie son harder to "whip the strong will out of him."  Um, yeah, that would do it.  UGH.  

Edited February 16, 2017 by DawnM

[Elfknitter.#]

Wait, I didn't know we were sisters.

 

My mother thinks we should have spanked my Aspie son harder to "whip the strong will out of him." Um, yeah, that would do it. UGH.

And yet while a lot to dissect, this does not seem the point of the op to me. But who knows? I could be wrong.

[DawnM]

Because if there is a label, it is helpful to know it.  It helps with dealing with the person, knowing the best ways to cope, and allows people strategies and resources to handle things better.

 

I had way too many people blame my parenting for my son's behavior.  He has Asperger's but we didn't know it for a LONG time.  Remember Max in the show Parenthood?  My son was almost EXACTLY like that.  He seemed like an out of control behavior problem.  He was asked to leave 2 schools.  He is the reason I started HSing in the first place.  

 

I was told I was a bad parent.   I was told to "discipline him more."  The list goes on.  Years of tears, frustration, etc.....

 

THANK GOD for the labels and diagnosis and help.  

 

 

[DawnM]

And yet while a lot to dissect, this does not seem the point of the op to me. But who knows? I could be wrong.

 

It IS the point.  My son was one called those "lazy" "smart ass" "problem" kid labels.......he NEEDED a diagnosis.  

[Elfknitter.#]

Asperger's was not the op's lament. If it were, my response would have been different.

[DawnM]

Asperger's was not the op's lament. If it were, my response would have been different.

 

 

She asked why everything had to be a diagnosis.,  My response is that many times there isn't one given when there should be.  Sometimes there is one and it helps to know what it is.

 

I did NOT respond saying everyone on her list should be diagnosed, nor did I say it was always Asperger's. I just  shared my person experience with dealing with people who didn't want a label and what that looked like.

[Elfknitter.#]

She asked why everything had to be a diagnosis., My response is that many times there isn't one given when there should be. Sometimes there is one and it helps to know what it is.

 

I did NOT respond saying everyone on her list should be diagnosed, nor did I say it was always Asperger's. I just shared my person experience with dealing with people who didn't want a label and what that looked like.

Like I originally said, I did not read all the responses.

 

And I want to honor asperger's.

 

There is no one fits all responses here. I do not doubt the OP's pic is a norm much less than they're own.

 

They are just different norms.

 

All the same, they make up a portion of a larger whole.

 

For that, own country is stronger. All of us little pieces will never meet online yet are pieces In a fabric we see yet do not see, hold, but hope to never hold.

[SarahW]

Wait, I didn't know we were sisters.

 

My mother thinks we should have spanked my Aspie son harder to "whip the strong will out of him."  Um, yeah, that would do it.  UGH.  

 

Ugh indeed. 

 

My oldest is not NT either. Anxiety, SPD and probably ADHD. He's quite sensitive and fearful. My mother is not good even with normal children, there's no way I'm exposing my child to her.

 

We were talking to my mother on skype after he got glasses and she thought it was funny to make fun of him over it. He was so confused. We had told him not to pay attention to kids who said mean things to him about wearing glasses, so why was grandma doing it?

 

In retrospect (like when I'm in the shower and think up all my best lines and witty retorts) I wish I had said "Mother, I realize you have a lot of issues stemming from your own childhood, but I am trying my best to prevent them being passed down yet another generation, so could you please just shut up?"

 

That would be so satisfying. But if I did say anything like that it would just confuse and upset her, and then I'd get criticized for not understanding that she was just joking and how she didn't actually mean anything by it and then she would apologize for hurting his super-sensitive feelings, and.....ugh, sigh. Extremely infrequent skype calls is the best solution I have right now.

 

Blerg.

 

 

:grouphug:

[Joyofsixreboot]

Because assuming my dd was just disagreeable and dh is moody and yes, my parenting explains the Aspie was very, very wrong.

Edited February 16, 2017 by joyofsix

[gardenmom5]

I don't think recognizing an underlying problem excuses behavior.

 

My mother is mean. Not as in not nice, but MEAN. She's a bully, she demeans others constantly (she also name-calls inanimate objects, which is sadly funny), she has a sadistic streak.

 

I also know that she has a LD, she was abused in school because of it. She was abused by others as well (emotionally, maybe more). She likely has lower than average IQ. She had to care for her mother slowly dying of cancer as a teen while her dad ran around with other women.

 

I can understand it now, but it doesn't change how much I suffered as a child who bore the brunt of all her emotional frustrations and problems. What was even worse than that, however, was how much my pain seemed to be invisible to others. I'd overhear my mom complain to other women at church about her "dirty rotten kids" and she'd get hugs and advice to just crack down on us harder. I'd try to tell people how I felt, but as a kid how do you process that you are being bullied by your own mother? I'd say "Mom is mean to me" and I'd get patted on the head and told "Oh, every kid says that, just wait till you're older and see that she's right." How incredibly invalidating, and how incredibly psychologically insulting.

 

Now that I am older, I see how troubled she is. I also will never leave my children alone in her care, no matter how many times she offers to take them for a week to "straighten them up" with her belt. Yeah, she's one who believes ADHD, ASD, and etc. are just "excuses" for sin, and can be cured with "a good beating" (her words). I just want to yell YEAH, BECAUSE THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WORKED OUT WELL FOR YOU, HASN'T IT!!!!!

 

Deep psychological issues there.

 

FWIW - not everyone at church was fooled by her pious "bad kids" spiel, but enough people were willing to enable her, and allow her to frequently teach children's classes, that I now see that she was the source of some major tensions in that church. But no one was willing to say anything supportive to me, parental rights, stay-out-of-other-parents-business, not my problem, don't get involved, don't rock the boat, etc. were more important, I guess.

 

And yes, she did go to counseling for a few times, though only to select Christian counselors (psychology=evil in her world). But she never got past the first few sessions. My DH (who has done work in psychology and counseling) says it's probably because at the 3rd or so session is when the counselor says "Ok, so everyone else is bad, but what can you do to change your behavior?" Yeah, that probably didn't go over well with her.

 

So it is a both/and. My mother is highly troubled in her head. She has also resisted developing a healthy mind. I myself have to deal every day with the psychological problems she dumped into my own head (so does DH and my kids, but I try to keep that from being daily). I live on a different continent from her, and that makes me a bit happy. I can tell people either version of her - She's a mean bully. She's psychologically troubled. Both are true. But it's complicated.

hugs.  my grandmother was also "not nice".  then there were the days she savored  just being plain mean. there are pictures of her I can't look at becasue it's "that smile".

 

the people at the church probably had no clue what to do, and were afraid of making things worse.    there are more options/awareness today (like calling cps for a check). and then there is a "not my problem", out of sight out of mind.

 

while people denigrate applying labels like n(ar)pd .. I. felt. *vindicated*. the first time I learned about it.  it wasn't me.  I wasn't crazy.  yeah - she likely had a lousy childhood - however, she was an adult.  that is *no excuse* for how she treated children in her care.

 

sure, I had issues that made me more challenging (in other areas I was more compliant than my siblings - who did a lot of illegal stuff) - I'm positive the child I was would have been diagnosed asp/apd/spd/anxiety today.  instead - I was ignored at best, called lazy, called bratty, and other behavior that can come from those disorders with no attempts to support the child.  my mom went to many support groups after my father's suicide - I was 12 and completely ignored.  for awhile my father's friends tried to support my brother - I was ignored. one - one time -  gave me three rose bushes for me to take care of and helped me plant them. ?huh? I was "just" a girl.  it's boys who really suffer from the death of their father/.  I was suicidal and clinically depressed.  and my grandmother - she rebuked me for grieving in front of her.  (it was a very long time ago, I'm fine - but it's one more check in the box that it was her - not me.)

do you know what 13 year olds do when you break down in class?  one more reason to bully the crying likely-asd awkward girl   . . .

I realize some of it was the times.  a lot wasn't known.  (still barely known today).  mother was a single mom with no support system. had two out of control teens, and another who had her issues - but otherwise followed the rules so got overlooked.

 

Ugh indeed. 

 

My oldest is not NT either. Anxiety, SPD and probably ADHD. He's quite sensitive and fearful. My mother is not good even with normal children, there's no way I'm exposing my child to her.

 

We were talking to my mother on skype after he got glasses and she thought it was funny to make fun of him over it. He was so confused. We had told him not to pay attention to kids who said mean things to him about wearing glasses, so why was grandma doing it?

 

In retrospect (like when I'm in the shower and think up all my best lines and witty retorts) I wish I had said "Mother, I realize you have a lot of issues stemming from your own childhood, but I am trying my best to prevent them being passed down yet another generation, so could you please just shut up?"

 

That would be so satisfying. But if I did say anything like that it would just confuse and upset her, and then I'd get criticized for not understanding that she was just joking and how she didn't actually mean anything by it and then she would apologize for hurting his super-sensitive feelings, and.....ugh, sigh. Extremely infrequent skype calls is the best solution I have right now.

 

Blerg.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

I mentioned in front of my grandmother I needed new glasses (stronger rx) - she told me to stop trying to get attention.

dh has a saying that fits:

don't try and teach a pig to sing.  it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[Mimm]

I think the constant counseling advice with no understanding that for most people it's unaffordable, is rich and laughable. Especially since most homeschoolers primarily live off on one income. You're looking at an extra $500 a month minimum for weekly counseling, if you can even find someone that cheap. That's my gripe.

 

This was our situation. I kinda stopped asking for help in understanding and dealing with my daughter because the responses were always "Get her an evaluation, get her into counseling, etc." We simply couldn't afford it. Of course we needed to do all that, and I explored every avenue I could think of. Eventually our insurance changed and we were able to get the help we so desperately needed but at the time it was simply not affordable. I know it takes more effort to think about a problem and offer insight, but it feels kind of lazy. And all it did was make me feel horrible for not being able to provide it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Many people post the titles of books like the Boundaries books or workbooks on working through depression etc.  Those are often available at libraries.  I got books on how to do vision therapy exercises at home and did them.  The Learning Challenges board has lots of advice on how to remediate different problems at home.  The point is that you don't just label children as "bad" or "lazy" and don't provide them any help.  Honestly, if people are not going to take care of legitimate problems at home, then they need to put their kids in the schools where help is mandated. 

 

Even a child who does have lazy tendencies needs help in the form of clear boundaries and instruction to help them form better habits.  Do they have choices in the matter?  Of course but parents are supposed to guide those choices. 

[marbel]

This was our situation. I kinda stopped asking for help in understanding and dealing with my daughter because the responses were always "Get her an evaluation, get her into counseling, etc." We simply couldn't afford it. Of course we needed to do all that, and I explored every avenue I could think of. Eventually our insurance changed and we were able to get the help we so desperately needed but at the time it was simply not affordable. I know it takes more effort to think about a problem and offer insight, but it feels kind of lazy. And all it did was make me feel horrible for not being able to provide it.

 

 

Except that most of us are not professionals and so it's not necessarily laziness on our part, but an understanding that the problem is not something that can be resolved via layperson advice and and belongs to professionals.   

 

Sometimes an evaluation is the only answer.  There are a lot of behaviors and problems that can have more than one possible cause.  When I was trying to figure out one of my kids, I read all the books people recommended, and my kid fit pretty much everything.   It took a professional to sort it out.

 

It's hard when things are unaffordable and/or difficult to get - I know, because it was all unaffordable for us - but please don't slam well-meaning people as lazy and not wanting to take effort to think about a problem. 

 

I mean, it's not like you want people to just make stuff up to help you feel better, right?  

 

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds.  

[Mimm]

Except that most of us are not professionals and so it's not necessarily laziness on our part, but an understanding that the problem is not something that can be resolved via layperson advice and and belongs to professionals.   

 

Sometimes an evaluation is the only answer.  There are a lot of behaviors and problems that can have more than one possible cause.  When I was trying to figure out one of my kids, I read all the books people recommended, and my kid fit pretty much everything.   It took a professional to sort it out.

 

It's hard when things are unaffordable and/or difficult to get - I know, because it was all unaffordable for us - but please don't slam well-meaning people as lazy and not wanting to take effort to think about a problem. 

 

I mean, it's not like you want people to just make stuff up to help you feel better, right?  

 

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds.  

 

If you have no insight, then you have no insight. Move along. But there are always people who might be able to help you understand and give you ideas that might help at least a little. In my situation, of course I knew she needed professional help. But since I couldn't make that happen (I even called a clinic associated with the university that provided very low cost counseling and they refused to even return my calls!) I was hoping that someone, anyone, could give me other help. Hey, if you can't, then you can't, but don't be the tenth person on a thread telling me to take her to a psychiatrist.

 

ETA: I will say that the state of mental health care in this country is abysmal. It's unbelievable how many people have such limited access to services they need. Either it's simply not available, or it's unaffordable. My daughter has been wanting help with her medication since Christmas, and her appointment isn't till April, and the only reason I got that appointment was that they had a cancellation. The woman on the phone advised me to take it because they're booked up through November. That's just insane to me. Your child is suffering? Oh well, hang on till November. :mellow:

Edited February 16, 2017 by Mimm

[SarahW]

hugs.  my grandmother was also "not nice".  then there were the days she savored  just being plain mean. there are pictures of her I can't look at becasue it's "that smile".

 

the people at the church probably had no clue what to do, and were afraid of making things worse.    there are more options/awareness today (like calling cps for a check). and then there is a "not my problem", out of sight out of mind.

 

while people denigrate applying labels like n(ar)pd .. I. felt. *vindicated*. the first time I learned about it.  it wasn't me.  I wasn't crazy.  yeah - she likely had a lousy childhood - however, she was an adult.  that is *no excuse* for how she treated children in her care.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

 

I understand feeling vindicated. Because of all the NPD talk here, I did consider for a while whether or not my mother was NPD. I decided she was not (unless it's possible for someone to be NPD but just be exceptionally bad at it) but when my brain clicked together her behavior with the word "bully" it all became clear, almost peaceful. I didn't need to question whether or not I was a bad kid (I wasn't, seriously, I was pretty angelic, just not angelic enough, but I don't think those perfectly angelic children my mother wants actually exist). I didn't need to wonder why I went out of my way to avoid interacting with my mother. I didn't need to wonder why I was so anxious around her. Labels can be coping mechanisms, labels can help me find resources to keep my own mind healthy. The label helps me understand why I emotionally flip out when DH says something that sounds like a criticism to me. Labels help me take a mental step back if I'm starting to rage at my kids. The label helps me understand if I have done something wrong and apologize. Labels are not excuses.

 

 

But to the OP's point, lots of labels can be used as excuses. Yes, I have met people who honestly don't parent and then wring their hands over their "wild kids." But labels are more than just psychological disorders. There's also the Defiant Teen label. The Persecuted Mother label. And also apparently the Preteen Girl Shouldn't Mourn Her Dead Father label.  :huh:

 

I've heard people excuse my mother's behavior more times than I can count. "You should talk to her more, she's your mother." "I know she's difficult sometimes, but she's had a hard life, and she's your mother." "Your mom really struggles, she's not that smart about some things, but she wants to spend time with you." "I know she can be a bit harsh, but she's your mother, I'm sure she cares about you, why don't you just forgive her?"  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

 

I swear, the next time someone says "But she's your mom" I'm going to exclaim, "Really? I had no idea! I was always wondering why she was hanging around me as a kid!"   :001_rolleyes:

 

Maybe a straight-up label similar to NPD would help people realize that they don't need to try to rationalize away her unhealthy behaviors. Or maybe they would prefer to rationalize than realize that something is actually wrong there? I don't know.

 

I do know that my mother could have used a lot of help as a child. I know she still needs a whole lot of help. I also know that her behavior is still wrong.

[Storygirl]

If you ask for advice about a problem, you will get advice. Some of it you may not like or may not be able to accomplish. But that is not the fault of the people who are trying to help you.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that any advice others offer is "lazy." These are people who have no vested interest in your issues but have taken time out of their day to try to help. If their advice is not helpful, offer thanks anyway.

 

The people who suggest evaluations care about the children and the parents who are posting. They understand the pain and difficulties and want to help.

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug:

 

 

I understand feeling vindicated. Because of all the NPD talk here, I did consider for a while whether or not my mother was NPD. I decided she was not (unless it's possible for someone to be NPD but just be exceptionally bad at it) but when my brain clicked together her behavior with the word "bully" it all became clear, almost peaceful. I didn't need to question whether or not I was a bad kid (I wasn't, seriously, I was pretty angelic, just not angelic enough, but I don't think those perfectly angelic children my mother wants actually exist). I didn't need to wonder why I went out of my way to avoid interacting with my mother. I didn't need to wonder why I was so anxious around her. Labels can be coping mechanisms, labels can help me find resources to keep my own mind healthy. The label helps me understand why I emotionally flip out when DH says something that sounds like a criticism to me. Labels help me take a mental step back if I'm starting to rage at my kids. The label helps me understand if I have done something wrong and apologize. Labels are not excuses.

 

I looked at npd with my mil ..  I think her's really is mostly organic, less choice (though there certainly is some.),, and more, her brain is broken.  doesn't change the fact that when I said "I wouldn't let her live with me for $1M."  . . and dh's niece added "a day".

 

But to the OP's point, lots of labels can be used as excuses. Yes, I have met people who honestly don't parent and then wring their hands over their "wild kids." But labels are more than just psychological disorders. There's also the Defiant Teen label. The Persecuted Mother label. And also apparently the Preteen Girl Shouldn't Mourn Her Dead Father label.  :huh:

 

I've heard people excuse my mother's behavior more times than I can count. "You should talk to her more, she's your mother." "I know she's difficult sometimes, but she's had a hard life, and she's your mother." "Your mom really struggles, she's not that smart about some things, but she wants to spend time with you." "I know she can be a bit harsh, but she's your mother, I'm sure she cares about you, why don't you just forgive her?"  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

 

that line can make me scream.  my grandmother used it as an excuse for my sister all. the. time.!   (sister was her favorite-victim.  she loved to rescue her victim.  the marquis de sade would be so proud.)  later I found out in her warped and twisted mind, i was the one who was guilty of her illegalities . . .

 

and I heard that from my mother all the time.  "grandmother really does love you .. "  really? then why does she  ___?  that's not love.

 

I swear, the next time someone says "But she's your mom" I'm going to exclaim, "Really? I had no idea! I was always wondering why she was hanging around me as a kid!"   :001_rolleyes:

 

Maybe a straight-up label similar to NPD would help people realize that they don't need to try to rationalize away her unhealthy behaviors. Or maybe they would prefer to rationalize than realize that something is actually wrong there? I don't know.

 

I do know that my mother could have used a lot of help as a child. I know she still needs a whole lot of help. I also know that her behavior is still wrong.

 

 

people who haven't dealt with a totally messed up family member - seldom "get it".

[Tiramisu]

About the cost of counseling....

 

Of all the counseling stints I've had over the years, the best was as a young teen when my grandparents took me to their local church where I met with a woman at no charge. I have no idea what her credentials were but I found just a few meetings with her very helpful.

 

My friend suffered a lot losing a child and then their home. She went to a church minister for counseling and she had a very positive experience. It wasn't her denomination but there was no pressure with regards to beliefs.

 

If I were ever in the position of needing counseling but not being able to afford it, I'd call a church or a synagogue to see what was available,

[manicmum81]

I don't think everything requires a label or intervention however having struggled with children who have additional needs, I know how unhelpful it is to be told by people that you are simply a bad parent or your child is 'choosing their behaviour' when something else entirely is going on.

[DawnM]

I don't think everything requires a label or intervention however having struggled with children who have additional needs, I know how unhelpful it is to be told by people that you are simply a bad parent or your child is 'choosing their behaviour' when something else entirely is going on.

 

 

It got to be almost comical to listen to preschool staff tell us how awful our child was behaving and how it must be our parenting, while almost in the same breath telling us how wonderful our #2 son was and what a dream he was to have in their school.

 

Um, then *maybe* it isn't the parenting?????   Just a thought.

[eternalsummer]

I don't think people have to be demonstrating some sort of desire to change for their poor behavior to be caused by mental illness.  I also don't think it's too much of a contradiction to say that a behavior is wrong, even morally wrong, and to also acknowledge that it is caused by something not entirely within the person's control.