Need advice/reassurance on mil visiting. Trigger. long.

[Catwoman]

Thank you for being so blunt. I wish it was that easy. I'm just adding those details because they add to the layer of this whole situation. I know by mil saying she's lost weight and abuser has been sad since her talking to him about this that she wants us to feel bad for them. Her son might, but I don't. And yes I could use more therapy but it's expensive. It's actually quite humorous thinking mil thinks we should do therapy together and her foot the bill. Seems more bizarre now as I type it all out.

It's totally bizarre.

 

But all you have to do to stop this trainwreck is to JUST SAY NO, and make it clear that you will not tolerate being nagged and that you will not be intimidated.

 

You're too stuck in the details to simplify this down to what it is. Someone wants you to do something you don't want to do. What do you do when that happens? You say NO.

 

Keep it simple. Say no to the counseling and say no to any and all contact with these people, and get out of the house when they will be visiting to do the work on the pool.

[TammyS]

.

 

DH thinks I am just trying to avoid facing this confrontation and yes, maybe I am. I don't want to see his face, let alone alone have our soon to be 10 year old see his face either.

 

Which is totally acceptable!  It's one thing to confront someone directly about some grievance of a reasonable nature that has a reasonable chance of being resolved.  This isn't that.

 

This person is an abuser and avoiding contact is the appropriate response.

 

Frankly, I would be STUNNED that any counselor would be willing to actually host this session with the child involved.

[yogangelica]

Sorry, but you're missing everyone's point again. If this man is coming to fix the pool, take your children and stay at a hotel until he is gone.

 

You have had a YEAR to move out of that house since you last posted about this, and it has been far longer than that since the man molested your son, so if moving out of the house for several days while he and MIL are in town is all you have to do to avoid seeing them, that really isn't much of an inconvenience.

 

 

Edited for my usual typos!

I hear you guys and we will be gone. Sorry to be so wishy washy. I have a place to stay and will be gone while they are in town but it was just this whole therapy thing being slapped in my face that made me jolt back. I can say no to that. I don't have to agree. Thanks for making me feel that yes I really can and should say no to that.

[Catwoman]

I hear you guys and we will be gone. Sorry to be so wishy washy. I have a place to stay and will be gone while they are in town but it was just this whole therapy thing being slapped in my face that made me jolt back. I can say no to that. I don't have to agree. Thanks for making me feel that yes I really can and should say no to that.

Good for you! Stay strong!

[mamaofgirls]

I did not read all the comments but think it is kinda nice that they picked the dates and did not ask you - I would make sure you and your boys are 'out of town' those dates. Maybe a nice waterpark/hotel? Your DH sounds really relaxed so I dont think he will be too upset if you and the boys leave for those few days... then hopefully you will get another 3+ years of nothign :)

 

ETA: I just saw someone else suggested this :)

Edited February 13, 2017 by mamaofgirls

[TammyS]

 My dh thinks by me not agreeing to  meet that in a way I am just trying to avoid this situation

 

That's like saying by refusing to play on the freeway I am just avoiding an untimely death.

 

Well, yeah.  Duh.  That's called common sense.

 

[TammyS]

Why are you even communicating with your MIL?

 

 

 

I think she has to communicate with MIL, because if she cuts MIL out, MIL and DH will continue to make arrangements that OP is cut out of until it's too late to do anything about it.  It sucks, but at least this way she's still in the loop.  In fact, I would be trying to cut DH out of the loop so that I would know I am not being undermined.

 

[Spryte]

Are you in therapy?  I would suggest you talk to your therapist about all this.  This is really beyond the scope of an online message board, and while I think the advice you're getting here matches what you might hear from a therapist - maybe it would have more weight from a therapist.  Certainly s/he could help guide you through any nuances.

 

At this point, there's really no special layer or situation that changes anything.  

 

You have to be gone when these people are in town.  You have to protect your kids from seeing the abuser.  Anyone who stands in the way of that needs to be severely limited in their access to your kids.  Forever.  

 

Who cares that your MIL lost weight because she's stressed?  Seriously, I have ZERO sympathy for her.  She's married to a child molester and believing his story over her grandchild's.  Yuck.

 

edited for a typo

Edited February 13, 2017 by Spryte

[QueenCat]

MIL just texted me asking what time is best to schedule our son for a counseling session. Fine, my son sees someone again, what difference does it make? That is what I keep going through in my head. I said I don't feel our child needs to be dragged into this right now to dh and that he can communicate that to his mom. So now compromise is that my dh and I along with her and abuser meet with a counselor. But still pleads for me and son to see the counselor as well. I can see her need for this. I almost want to just agree as simply to prove this is not something our son has made up and that regardless of him admitting guilt we hav ea right to say no to having him in our life from now on.

 

DH thinks I am just trying to avoid facing this confrontation and yes, maybe I am. I don't want to see his face, let alone alone have our soon to be 10 year old see his face either. It makes more sense for us to handle this alone as parents, not involve abuser and his wife.

 

Honestly, if you choose to take your son to a counselor recommended by your mil, even without the abuser present, I will wonder what kind of drugs you are on..... If your son needs a counselor, and he might, find one WHO DOES NOT KNOW your mil or her husband.

 

The ONLY reason I might meet with a counselor with my dh, my mil and the abuser is for me to make a simple statement that will go in the counselor records "You molested my son. There is nothing to be discussed as molesters have no say in the life of my son". And if it were ME, if my dh said anything to the contrary, he would no longer be my dh as a man who puts the safety of his son below family harmony is not a man worthy of much.

 

NO DECENT counselor would recommend your son sit in a room with his abuser UNLESS it was in a courtroom, while giving testimony.

[QueenCat]

That immediately came to mind as well but I dismissed that as a crazy though. She is open to me finding a counselor as well so I don't think is a  set up so to speak. I don't see the need for it though but she is insisting. My dh thinks by me not agreeing to  meet that in a way I am just trying to avoid this situation. I don't know. It just seems weird to me and totally not necessary. I guess on the other hand though confronting him for the first time ain a neutral documented space might be good? That's what dh thinks at least. He agrees that any credible doctor would not advise a child to meet with the abuser in a confrontation setting.

 

Why does your dh think anything needs to be discussed. A good father will say "Mom, your husband molested my son. He is not allowed to ever be near him. If you attempt to sneak him around my son, you will never see me or my family again.". And then stick to it. NOTHING TO DISCUSS.

[QueenCat]

This seems so bizarre. If this happened to ds, my dh would go nuts. He's not unique, I'm pretty sure most dads would. I'm having trouble understanding this, tbh.

 

My thoughts exactly. My dh would have handled this a long time ago. And step one, if mil didn't leave her abuser hubby immediately, would have been to move us out of the home we rented from her, with no forwarding address.

[displace]

I would assume a real, certified counselor would report this to CPS as a mandated reporter the minute they heard sexual molestation so it could be investigated. Any possibility of continued contact can be considered neglect by the parents for allowing that to happen with a known abuser.

 

If I were the parent I would have ceased contact with these people the minute I found out (plus leaving the house, contacting the police and lawyers and everyone). If your partner wants to see his mom, whatever. I would not even want to hear about her.

[Seasider]

That immediately came to mind as well but I dismissed that as a crazy though. She is open to me finding a counselor as well so I don't think is a set up so to speak. I don't see the need for it though but she is insisting. My dh thinks by me not agreeing to meet that in a way I am just trying to avoid this situation. I don't know. It just seems weird to me and totally not necessary. I guess on the other hand though confronting him for the first time ain a neutral documented space might be good? That's what dh thinks at least. He agrees that any credible doctor would not advise a child to meet with the abuser in a confrontation setting.

Well heck yeah you ARE trying to avoid the situation because it is 100% UNNECESSARY. What the hell makes it so hard for you to speak that truth?

 

ETA please forgive the harsh tone of my words. But i really mean them.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Seasider

[fraidycat]

That immediately came to mind as well but I dismissed that as a crazy though. She is open to me finding a counselor as well so I don't think is a set up so to speak. I don't see the need for it though but she is insisting. My dh thinks by me not agreeing to meet that in a way I am just trying to avoid this situation. I don't know. It just seems weird to me and totally not necessary. I guess on the other hand though confronting him for the first time ain a neutral documented space might be good? That's what dh thinks at least. He agrees that any credible doctor would not advise a child to meet with the abuser in a confrontation setting.

Pardon my french here.

 

1) Tell your DH to grow a freaking pair of balls and JUST SAY NO to his manipulative mother already

 

2) Grow your own set and JUST SAY NO to your manipulative DH

 

3) Avoidance is the only acceptable response to these people. Ever. Always.

 

4) No. No. No. It's a one syllable word. Use it.

 

Like others I'm done with this topic. You seem to enjoy creating dramatic twists that need not exist if you'd just say "Hell no. Not happening."

 

Good luck.

[LMD]

They are ganging up on you. If you go to counselling with them, they will weep and deny and swear by any gods his innocence. They are trying to make you look like the crazy one. Then, the boundaries are easily blown through.

 

I think that your dh still hopes there's a reasonable explanation for all of this and once you hear it you will settle your hysterical self down. He is helping to wear you down and undermine you.

 

Then, when abuser does it to your son again, no one will believe you.

 

They are plotting an evil scheme to get that man access to your child. Your dh and mil are possibly not intentionally acting with malice, but they are (at best) pawns helping to further the evil plan.

 

If dh comes to you with 'mom thinks we should...' you shut it down with 'I don't care what she thinks.'

Edited February 13, 2017 by LMD

[QueenCat]

I would assume a real, certified counselor would report this to CPS as a mandated reporter the minute they heard sexual molestation so it could be investigated. Any possibility of continued contact can be considered neglect by the parents for allowing that to happen with a known abuser.

 

If I were the parent I would have ceased contact with these people the minute I found out (plus leaving the house, contacting the police and lawyers and everyone). If your partner wants to see his mom, whatever. I would not even want to hear about her.

 

Good point........ I thought the OP said she'd taken her son to a counselor previously. Weird that it wasn't investigated at that point.

[poppy]

They are ganging up on you. If you go to counselling with them, they will weep and deny and swear by any gods his innocence. They are trying to make you look like the crazy one. Then, the boundaries are easily blown through.

 

I think that your dh still hopes there's a reasonable explanation for all of this and once you hear it you will settle your hysterical self down. He is helping to wear you down and undermine you.

 

Then, when abuser does it to your son again, no one will believe you.

 

They are plotting an evil scheme to get that man access to your child. Your dh and mil are possibly not intentionally acting with malice, but they are (at best) pawns helping to further the evil plan.

 

If dh comes to you with 'mom thinks we should...' you shut it down with 'I don't care what she thinks.'

Yes.

 

This topic is really upsetting. To read someone feel wish washy over protecting her child from sexual abuse and ongoing trauma. 'Should I ? Shouldn't I? I just can't tell. It's complicated!!! ' is mind boggling to me.

Edited February 13, 2017 by poppy

[lllll]

nm

Edited March 2, 2017 by --Kathy--

[gardenmom5]

I am curious if they thought your ds should be there for this counseling session. But regardless, the answer is HECK NO your son will NOT be there. Personally I would meet with the abuser in a counselors office. To emphatically tell him you believe your son and that he will never see your son again. Period. And I would not go into details about exactly what your son said. Just 'at least one incident of a molestation of a sexual nature'. Period.

 

this is the only thing with which I disagree.  she should have no counseling of any kind with the mil or her husband.  (she would probably benefit from counseling on her own, or marriage counseling with her dh.)

 

Your Dh needs to be with you on this.

 

And to echo what everyone has said dozens of times. Move.

 

And yes I agree that he is to be told not to come on your property or the police will be notified and have him removed and you will tell the police then why. You don't want him on your property.

 

Your MIL is in a horrible position. She will be making a choice now. And I fear it will not be to believe your son.

 

Edited to add: saying this to a counselor could help you in the future if you split up from your Dh. Because once you are not together he will probably want to fold on this issue and let abuser see your son. If you start making noise after you are not together you look like a vindictive controller making stuff up. If it is documented that it was an issue from this point....you will more likely be able to get a judge to order your Dh to keep your son away from abuser.

 

Edited to add I re read more closely and see they DO want your son there. No. Just no no no.

 

How sick of them. It is not the way an innocent man would behave either.

 

 

MIL just texted me asking what time is best to schedule our son for a counseling session. Fine, my son sees someone again, what difference does it make? That is what I keep going through in my head. I said I don't feel our child needs to be dragged into this right now to dh and that he can communicate that to his mom. So now compromise is that my dh and I along with her and abuser meet with a counselor. But still pleads for me and son to see the counselor as well. I can see her need for this. I almost want to just agree as simply to prove this is not something our son has made up and that regardless of him admitting guilt we hav ea right to say no to having him in our life from now on.

 

DH thinks I am just trying to avoid facing this confrontation and yes, maybe I am. I don't want to see his face, let alone alone have our soon to be 10 year old see his face either. It makes more sense for us to handle this alone as parents, not involve abuser and his wife.

no counselor - you and your dh need a marriage counselor. 

the time for confrontation is past.  it is time for action.  the action being - get your posterior OUT OF THAT HOUSE and as others have said, leave no forwarding address.  or better yet, move across the country (which has the added benefit of seriously limiting contact between your wuss of a partner and his manipulative mother.)

 

I hear you all! Seriously, when dh told me and I still don't know whole story because I was so blown away that abuser suggested we all see a counselor together. And poor mil has lost 5 lbs stressing over when to talk to him about this and even more since confronting him herself. And now he's all sad now too. Boo hoo. It has been harder on our end. No way will I bring our son to talk to abuser and mil with a counselor.

 

It's even asking a lot to ask me to talk to him a counseling session. I do not need it. I do not have the time for it. and I don't care if mil wants to foot the bill. I have a choice to not want to talk to him and just let it be that he made a big mistake and I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry, he's not getting a second chance. We can go to counseling for months or years but that wouldn't make me suddenly be like ok our kids can be around your husband now.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

 

I will be very blunt.

in a previous post you mentioned you can be somewhat "dramatic".  "dramatic" is bad, it infers making mountains out of molehills with intent to manipulate to gain attention/sympathy from others.  do you want to know why people think you're dramatic?  you make very serious accusations - and have zero follow-through.  zip, zilch, nada. all talk, no action.

 

you are being wishy-washy in your actions - which can make it easy to wonder if something really horrible happened, or was it just much less serious but you are "dramatic" so you said it was worse?

tbh: if this was *really molestation* why in hades name are you STILL IN THAT HOUSE????  WHY IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION??????

 

do you want your mil to take you seriously?  get your @$$ out of that house!  *STOP* discussing this with her. your dh/partner needs to stop discussing it with her.  they can't have contact with your son.  period.  end of discussion.  rinse, repeat.  you and your son will not be seeing mil and her husband. zip.  zilch. end of discussion.  your mil has legal rights - which also require a certain amount of prior notification to enter the home.  so, if she shows up with no notice - too bad, so sad, she has to legally give notice to enter the rental residence - even if she owns it.

 

SHE is playing manipulative games - and YOU are *playing them with her*.  want to know how to make it stop? STOP PLAYING GAMES.  it is that simple.   she wants you to compromise - so you do (that makes you wishy-washy), she wants to 'talk about it' - so you are.

 

go read boundaries.  go do the workbook as well.  by townsend and cloud.  you DESPERATELY need boundaries.  someone  above said you needed to grow a pair - well, developing boundaries will teach you how.

 

    

If this story is true, I think maybe you are the one who needs to seek counseling.

 

:iagree:   counseling can help you grow a backbone.

 

I'm not saying this to be nasty; I really mean it. The solution to your problem has been presented over and over and over in this thread by many, many people -- just as it was the last time you brought up this situation, but you keep adding new layers of drama.

 

This new twist with your MIL requesting a counseling session sounds absolutely ludicrous to me, and from what you have told us about your MIL in the past, it doesn't make any sense at all that she would suggest something like that.

 

There is no great mystery here. There is no huge problem. All you need to do is make sure the child molester is never allowed anywhere near your children. Period. End of story.

 

Why do you keep insisting on complicating this? It's not rocket science. It's common sense.

 

I know I sound mean. I honestly wish the best for you and your children. I'm just very frustrated with your excuses and with the way you keep adding new twists to the story.

OP- by your continuing to add "new layers", whatever you want to call them - you are rationalizing WHY you "can't" have a boundary.

like cat said - this isn't rocket science.  (I should know, my son is studying to become a rocket  scientist)

either he molested your son, or he didn't.

1) he didn't molest your son - proceed to talk about how to fix the relationship (if you want to)

2) he did molest your son - proceed to erect boundaries, he never sees your son again.  if you allow your mil to see him, there MUST be supervision because she will bring up this subject with him. - and it will be from the viewpoint of "the molestation never happened, and it's in his and your heads."

 

Thank you for being so blunt. I wish it was that easy. I'm just adding those details because they add to the layer of this whole situation. I know by mil saying she's lost weight and abuser has been sad since her talking to him about this that she wants us to feel bad for them. Her son might, but I don't. And yes I could use more therapy but it's expensive. It's actually quite humorous thinking mil thinks we should do therapy together and her foot the bill. Seems more bizarre now as I type it all out.

 

it is that easy.  you are making things hard.

[Scarlett]

GardenMom said,

 

>>>his is the only thing with which I disagree.  she should have no counseling of any kind with the mil or her husband.  (she would probably benefit from counseling on her own, or marriage counseling with her dh.)>>>

 

In reference to my comment about the mom and dad going to counseling with the GM and abuser.  I need to clarify that I do NOT believe she needs to be in counseling with them.  At all.  But I do see great benefit to stating in front of a counselor that she believes her child and the abuser is to never see her child again. And no listening to his story.

[Katy]

I'm starting to think this is a troll and not a real scenario at all. You don't need an attorney, you just go to the police with the dates and details and ask what your rights are to keep your child away from this man.  Block MIL from contacting you.  Get a restraining order.  Get away from these people, and if your DH doesn't see that it is necessary to avoid them, he needs to see the police and a therapist too.

 

KNOWINGLY EXPOSING YOUR CHILDREN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY SEXUALLY ABUSED THEM IS GROUNDS TO TAKE CUSTODY AWAY FROM ALL OF YOU AND PUT ALL OF YOUR CHILDREN INTO FOSTER CARE.  IF YOU TAKE THIS CHILD TO A THERAPIST WITH THIS MAN THE THERAPIST MIGHT CALL SOCIAL SERVICES IMMEDIATELY.

 

Frankly, I'm a mandatory reporter, and if I had any clue who you were in real life I'd call the police and child abuse hotlines and report this situation myself.  Clearly you need some reinforcement to know that protecting your child is much more important than your relationship with your abusive inlaws, than in staying in a nice cheap rental, or even than your marriage. 

 

 

ETA:  Once there is a report with social services, social services will help pay for therapy.  You clearly need it, but not with these people.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Katy

[gardenmom5]

I understand the manipulative parent and the utter wuss of a child.  my grandmother was a manipulator, and my mother a total wuss.

 

I learned to just "not play the game".  I also understand the damage it does to people. 

 

boundaries by townsend and cloud also has a workbook - they're cheap.  if you really want things to get better, you can come up with that - you can skip out on something else if you have to.  this is too important.

 

you can do this.  you need to do this.

[Carol in Cal.]

Every single person I know who was molested as a kid but still had to see the perp as 'part of the family' resents the hell out of it in adulthood.  If you want to have a relationship with your son when he grows up, you'd better prevent him from being pressured into ever being in the same building with that guy again.  Furthermore, if you really want to protect him, you will ensure that the incident is documented to authorities in detail, with dates.  That is the only thing that *might* protect him from his weak father not being able to stick with this plan.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Carol in Cal.

[Seasider]

Clarifying, the suggestion to get an attorney/legal advice is for the future protection of the kids should joint custody result in the possibility of future unsupervised visits.

 

OP does not need legal advice now to say no to joint counseling and to proactively keep her child away from these people. However, since her partner does not seem invested in protecting the kids, a separation may become necessary and she needs documentation/advice on the front end to support her future request for no unsupervised/ improperly supervised future visitation.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Seasider

[gardenmom5]

I'm starting to think this is a troll and not a real scenario at all. You don't need an attorney, you just go to the police with the dates and details and ask what your rights are to keep your child away from this man.  Block MIL from contacting you.  Get a restraining order.  Get away from these people, and if your DH doesn't see that it is necessary to avoid them, he needs to see the police and a therapist too.

 

KNOWINGLY EXPOSING YOUR CHILDREN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY SEXUALLY ABUSED THEM IS GROUNDS TO TAKE CUSTODY AWAY FROM ALL OF YOU AND PUT ALL OF YOUR CHILDREN INTO FOSTER CARE.  IF YOU TAKE THIS CHILD TO A THERAPIST WITH THIS MAN THE THERAPIST MIGHT CALL SOCIAL SERVICES IMMEDIATELY.

 

Frankly, I'm a mandatory reporter, and if I had any clue who you were in real life I'd call the police and child abuse hotlines and report this situation myself.  Clearly you need some reinforcement to know that protecting your child is much more important than your relationship with your abusive inlaws, than in staying in a nice cheap rental, or even than your marriage. 

 

she's posted about these people before, under a different user name.  she had 101 posts when she changed her user name.  she said she wasn't able to access the account, or the email address of that account.  which is odd, becasue she used it to post in december.

 

so she set up a new user account.

 

here are her previous threads:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/632906-christmas-presents-from-mil-stepgrandpa-abuse-trigger-warning/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/614359-when-life-knocks-you-down-stay-there-be-unhappyor-trigger/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/588142-good-touchinappropriate-touchworst-nightmare-came-true-help/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/632895-last-minute-gifts-for-family-ahh-sorry-long-rant/

[Katy]

Clarifying, the suggestion to get an attorney/legal advice is for the future protection of the kids should joint custody result in the possibility of future unsupervised visits.

 

OP does not need legal advice now to say no to joint counseling and to proactively keep her child away from these people. However, since her partner does not seem invested in protecting the kids, a separation may become necessary and she needs documentation/advice on the front end to support her future request for no unsupervised/ improperly supervised future visitation.

 

Frankly, one talk with any police officer would make it abundantly clear to her DH that visitations will never happen, upon pain of him permanently losing custody.  All of this worry and expense about lawyers now, when they are not planning on breaking up, is pointless.  Frankly, this woman is making it pretty clear she doesn't plan to break up with him even if he does expose her son to her abuser.  Filing a police report so there is a record that he DID know about this abuse would be documentation enough.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I remember the thread when you posted a year ago.

 

I do not believe charges would go anywhere in this case. I absolutely believe your son, and I am impressed that you believe him, too. Good for you for being proactive for your children! I am quite familiar with the court system, and there is not much of a case here.

 

So, that leaves you with two priorities, affirming your son and protecting your children:

 

--Affirm your son by NOT ever making him have contact with that man again. He has lost all relationship privileges for all time. Also, MIL is absolutely not allowed ever to discuss this with your son. She'll minimize and deny, and she will re-traumatize him. It is NOT in your son's best interest for anyone to continue rehashing this with him, so stop talking about it. Affirm your son by not questioning and by not allowing others to rake this all over the place again. (It sounds like that is what you want too--good for you.)

 

--Keep all your children safe by not having contact with that man. I'm really glad you have a place to go. Go there. I cannot see how you would ever manage to be in the home during the week when he is there--you will be in constant conflict with these people. There will be constant pressure to let this go or to make compromises on time together. You will be made to look like the hysterical one. 

 

 

 

Your mil does not believe anything happened, so she can do harm to your son's heart with her questioning and denial. Your mil will also not ever take any steps to protect children, whether your son or anyone else. Your partner does not want to stand up to his mom, and I think I remember from the previous thread that he had a friendly relationship with the abuser in the past. Your partner's tendency is to minimize or to think it won't happen again or that it's okay to be around this guy. It's not okay, so stand your ground.

 

The abuser will affirm with his dying breath that nothing ever happened and you are the crazy one. He will appear to be charming and "normal." Expect this. It is confusing for all of you, and it is confusing for your son. Remember that appearances are deceiving.

 

Do not discuss this any further with mil or her husband. There is nothing to be gained from elaborate discussions. Those are simply opportunities for them to wear you down and wheedle you into compromise.

:iagree:

This! This! This!  A thousand times this!  Do not expect anything to be different from what HV has outlined here.  The positive thing here is that you believe your son (many did and do not believe their children when they are abused by someone close to them) and you are determined to protect him. 

 

Unfortunately, people we are close to have experienced this and what HV says is accurate to the letter.  

[Seasider]

Frankly, one talk with any police officer would make it abundantly clear to her DH that visitations will never happen, upon pain of him permanently losing custody. All of this worry and expense about lawyers now, when they are not planning on breaking up, is pointless. Frankly, this woman is making it pretty clear she doesn't plan to break up with him even if he does expose her son to her abuser. Filing a police report so there is a record that he DID know about this abuse would be documentation enough.

I will take your word for it as from someone with direct experience in this sort of case. I sure don't want it to be harder for OP. Just thinking I also would hate to see that kid suffer in the future because an i didn't get dotted along the way, kwim?

[Selkie]

Your big problem is that your partner is very weak and is not protective of his children like a father should be. Honestly, if someone touched one of our kids like that, you would need a spatula to scrape that pedophile off the floor after my dh got done with him. Not that I'm advocating violence, but your partner's cowardice in this situation is disturbing.

[Harriet Vane]

I'm starting to think this is a troll and not a real scenario at all. You don't need an attorney, you just go to the police with the dates and details and ask what your rights are to keep your child away from this man.  Block MIL from contacting you.  Get a restraining order.  Get away from these people, and if your DH doesn't see that it is necessary to avoid them, he needs to see the police and a therapist too.

 

KNOWINGLY EXPOSING YOUR CHILDREN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY SEXUALLY ABUSED THEM IS GROUNDS TO TAKE CUSTODY AWAY FROM ALL OF YOU AND PUT ALL OF YOUR CHILDREN INTO FOSTER CARE.  IF YOU TAKE THIS CHILD TO A THERAPIST WITH THIS MAN THE THERAPIST MIGHT CALL SOCIAL SERVICES IMMEDIATELY.

 

Frankly, I'm a mandatory reporter, and if I had any clue who you were in real life I'd call the police and child abuse hotlines and report this situation myself.  Clearly you need some reinforcement to know that protecting your child is much more important than your relationship with your abusive inlaws, than in staying in a nice cheap rental, or even than your marriage. 

 

 

ETA:  Once there is a report with social services, social services will help pay for therapy.  You clearly need it, but not with these people.

 

 

Okay, I have to disagree here. I do respect your experience, and I am willing to bet you may be living in a place with better children and family services than me. I have many long years of experience with the system, and in my experience it just doesn't work as kindly as what you present here.

 

What the OP's child experienced would likely be unfounded in a DCFS report, primarily because it can be construed to be tickling or wrestling, there were others in the room, and clothes were not removed. It becomes a he-said-she-said situation with absolutely no corroborating evidence. Furthermore, an assessment of risk of harm would find low to no risk because the alleged perpetrator does not have regular contact with the child and because the mother professes belief in what her child has said and mom has committed to protect the child. Since the perpetrator is not a parent or a babysitter, mom has the ability to forbid contact, so the state would assess that there is no (or low) risk of harm. 

 

Even it were referred for a real investigation, I can virtually guarantee that no criminal charges would be filed. No dates. No witnesses. Small children's memories are often held to be suspect in the courts. And the incident was "mild" on the spectrum of molestation because clothes were not removed, sex acts were not forced, no rape occurred. There is no criminal case here.

 

As for paying for therapy, that is not likely. First of all, payment for therapeutic services varies widely based on what county you live in, and it's not a given even when a minor is in state custody with a history of significant trauma. The state is not likely to pay for family therapy for this incident, though they may certainly recommend it for the family to pursue.

 

 

To the OP--

 

NO counseling. 

 

The only effect this has is to whittle away at your son's story and his credibility. It is asking him to make a significant moral compromise in spending time with someone he knows to be unsafe and untrustworthy. It gives the perpetrator the opportunity to hurt your son again.

 

You don't need to have some big discussion with mil and the perpetrator either. It will go nowhere, I promise. The result will be one of two things--you come out looking like the hysterical one, or you end up compromising your son.

 

This opens the door to endless questioning and discussion. It will be endless. It will be years. Do not go there.

 

So stand your ground. This happened. You believe your son. You will NOT ask your son to tell the icky story again and you will not allow him to be hectored, badgered, questioned, or discussed to death. Just NO. The consequences of this action are that your son is off limits to this man, and the subject is off limits too. Period. Be a wall. Do not discuss it.

[Pink and Green Mom]

No reputable counselor in the world would agree that the proper response to child molestation is counseling for the child and the abuser together. Which means your MIL is telling the counselor something else about what the situation is that requires counseling. Don't step into her framing of the situation by going to the appointment. It's a set-up.

 

 

I was just going to post the same exact thing.  I'm no expert but I cannot imagine any professional wanting an abuser and a child victim to have to sit together to "talk it out."

 

Your only duty is to your child.  Not your MIL, her husband, or her son.

[Artichoke]

Yes.

 

This topic is really upsetting. To read someone feel wish washy over protecting her child from sexual abuse and ongoing trauma. 'Should I ? Shouldn't I? I just can't tell. It's complicated!!! ' is mind boggling to me.

 

 

It is mind-boggling.  The only thing I can think of is that she and her dh don't want to rock the boat so they can stay in the house, or maybe profit from its sale.  They haven't moved and upthread she says that her dh would need to talk with mil about moving and selling the house.  

 

OP you just need to decide which is more important -- protecting your son or staying on good terms with your mil.  it really is as simple as that.  Once the decision is made, you will have to deal with the fallout.  It stinks, but it's something  you have to do.  Hugs to you as you make choices.  

[Katy]

Okay, I have to disagree here. I do respect your experience, and I am willing to bet you may be living in a place with better children and family services than me. I have many long years of experience with the system, and in my experience it just doesn't work as kindly as what you present here.

 

What the OP's child experienced would likely be unfounded in a DCFS report, primarily because it can be construed to be tickling or wrestling, there were others in the room, and clothes were not removed. It becomes a he-said-she-said situation with absolutely no corroborating evidence. Furthermore, an assessment of risk of harm would find low to no risk because the alleged perpetrator does not have regular contact with the child and because the mother professes belief in what her child has said and mom has committed to protect the child. Since the perpetrator is not a parent or a babysitter, mom has the ability to forbid contact, so the state would assess that there is no (or low) risk of harm. 

 

Even it were referred for a real investigation, I can virtually guarantee that no criminal charges would be filed. No dates. No witnesses. Small children's memories are often held to be suspect in the courts. And the incident was "mild" on the spectrum of molestation because clothes were not removed, sex acts were not forced, no rape occurred. There is no criminal case here.

 

As for paying for therapy, that is not likely. First of all, payment for therapeutic services varies widely based on what county you live in, and it's not a given even when a minor is in state custody with a history of significant trauma. The state is not likely to pay for family therapy for this incident, though they may certainly recommend it for the family to pursue.

 

 

To the OP--

 

NO counseling. 

 

The only effect this has is to whittle away at your son's story and his credibility. It is asking him to make a significant moral compromise in spending time with someone he knows to be unsafe and untrustworthy. It gives the perpetrator the opportunity to hurt your son again.

 

You don't need to have some big discussion with mil and the perpetrator either. It will go nowhere, I promise. The result will be one of two things--you come out looking like the hysterical one, or you end up compromising your son.

 

This opens the door to endless questioning and discussion. It will be endless. It will be years. Do not go there.

 

So stand your ground. This happened. You believe your son. You will NOT ask your son to tell the icky story again and you will not allow him to be hectored, badgered, questioned, or discussed to death. Just NO. The consequences of this action are that your son is off limits to this man, and the subject is off limits too. Period. Be a wall. Do not discuss it.

 

This is all true, but still, knowingly exposing the child (or any child) to this man would constitute a pattern of poor parenting, that, when coupled with other choices, could put that child at risk. If the parents know this history and expose the child to this man and something does happen, the parents will be found to be part of the problem.

 

No social worker or court is going to yank a child for this reason alone.

[gardenmom5]

Your big problem is that your partner is very weak and is not protective of his children like a father should be. Honestly, if someone touched one of our kids like that, you would need a spatula to scrape that pedophile off the floor after my dh got done with him. Not that I'm advocating violence, but your partner's cowardice in this situation is disturbing.

 

if his mother is as manipulative as she is implying - I can see it. (and there are people who are that manipulative starting with a child, who only knows giving the adult what they want - and to stand up to them is a huge deal.)  in which case, her husband/partner needs to get the heck away from his mother too.

[Harriet Vane]

This is all true, but still, knowingly exposing the child (or any child) to this man would constitute a pattern of poor parenting, that, when coupled with other choices, could put that child at risk. If the parents know this history and expose the child to this man and something does happen, the parents will be found to be part of the problem.

 

No social worker or court is going to yank a child for this reason alone.

 

 

I agree that knowingly exposing a child to someone who is believed to be a perpetrator could have serious repercussions if another incident were to occur. 

[FaithManor]

MIL just texted me asking what time is best to schedule our son for a counseling session. Fine, my son sees someone again, what difference does it make? That is what I keep going through in my head. I said I don't feel our child needs to be dragged into this right now to dh and that he can communicate that to his mom. So now compromise is that my dh and I along with her and abuser meet with a counselor. But still pleads for me and son to see the counselor as well. I can see her need for this. I almost want to just agree as simply to prove this is not something our son has made up and that regardless of him admitting guilt we hav ea right to say no to having him in our life from now on.

 

DH thinks I am just trying to avoid facing this confrontation and yes, maybe I am. I don't want to see his face, let alone alone have our soon to be 10 year old see his face either. It makes more sense for us to handle this alone as parents, not involve abuser and his wife.

And this right here would be THE ultimate betrayal. He does NOT get to gode you or your traumatized child into any counseling session because mommy dearest demands anything.

 

THE END!

[FaithManor]

If you have friends or relatives who will take you in - preferably many hours away - I highly recommend you pack you and your children's bags while your partner is at work tomorrow and GO. And when I say go, I mean that you will be gone for an extended period, enrolling the children in schools at the new residence, and if the father wants to see his children he comes to you. When he cuts his mother off, packs, moves out, finds a new place away from any reasonable chance of her and the molester ever trying to come around, then talk of terms of reconciliation can commence.

 

I am not kidding. This is how it would play out here if my dh proved to be unable/unwilling to put the kids first.

Edited February 14, 2017 by FaithManor

[gardenmom5]

And this right here would be THE ultimate betrayal. He does NOT get to gode you or your traumatized child into any counseling session because mommy dearest demands anything.

 

THE END!

This.

Even if there were no trauma, and everything was hunky dory, he doesn't get to goude you.

Man shall leave his mother and cleave to his wife ( and none other) and all that.

[Denise in IN]

MIL just texted me asking what time is best to schedule our son for a counseling session. Fine, my son sees someone again, what difference does it make? That is what I keep going through in my head. I said I don't feel our child needs to be dragged into this right now to dh and that he can communicate that to his mom. So now compromise is that my dh and I along with her and abuser meet with a counselor. But still pleads for me and son to see the counselor as well. I can see her need for this. I almost want to just agree as simply to prove this is not something our son has made up and that regardless of him admitting guilt we hav ea right to say no to having him in our life from now on.

 

DH thinks I am just trying to avoid facing this confrontation and yes, maybe I am. I don't want to see his face, let alone alone have our soon to be 10 year old see his face either. It makes more sense for us to handle this alone as parents, not involve abuser and his wife.

 

NO. Just - No.

 

Why does the MIL get the decide that your son needs counseling.  Is she his parent?

 

Who has the right to say that you need to "face" or "confront" his abuser?  Frankly, they have no actual "right' to any communication from you.

 

If you are not a troll (and I hope you are not, but I've been around long enough to see all kind of things on this board), I'm begging you, please, get some boundaries and stick with them.  Your one job at this point is to protect your son.  He felt violated by this man.  That is enough to keep him away, period.  You do not have to explain, excuse, defend, communicate, counsel, be flexible, or anything else.  And your DH needs to support you in this - if he cannot, then he is asking you to choose between aligning with him and protecting your son.  

 

You need to get in your mama bear mode and stay there as long as it takes, for the sake of your son.  Get counseling along with your DH to help you learn to deal with the manipulative MIL and work together.  Disengage financially from the MIL and any other family members.  Work on protecting your own family unit and getting yourselves healthy and functional.  Hard and tiring?  Yes.  But totally worth it for the long term health of you and your family.

[Scarlett]

If you have friends or relatives who will take you in - preferably many hours away - I highly recommend you pack you and your children's bags while your partner is at work tomorrow and GO. And when I say go, I mean that you will be gone for an extended period, enrolling the children in schools at the new residence, and if the father wants to see his children he comes to you. When he cuts his mother off, packs, moves out, finds a new place away from any reasonable chance of her and the molester ever trying to come around, then talk of terms of reconciliation can commence.

 

I am not kidding. This is how it would play out here if my dh proved to be unable/unwilling to put the kids first.

 

 

Father's have rights though.  He could easily file papers for custody or visitation if she did that. 

 

That is the reason, and the only reason I feel she should (if she is able to without too much fear or chance of going along to get along) face this abuser in front of an unbiased professional and tell him she believes her son's telling of events and that the abuser is never to be near her children again.   Ever.  Period.  That way if a parting of ways happens between OP and her children's father she will have proof that it is a long time issue...not one she made up during custody or visitation battles.

[Aura]

OP, it really sounds like you have not learned how to stand on your own. You are allowing yourself to be manipulated and coerced when you KNOW what they want it wrong. You're second-guessing yourself because others are questioning you.

 

You need to learn to trust your instincts!

 

And you really need to read up on abuse, manipulative and controlling behaviors, and how abusers groom their victims as well as those who are in charge of their victims. YOU ARE BEING GROOMED RIGHT NOW. You either allow yourself to be further pushed and blinded, or you stop it now.

[momacacia]

Ummm, are counselors not mandatory reporters? Does the abuser know this? What am I missing? Or do abusers know that the counselor is in their pocket since MIL is paying the bill? Am I missing something?

 

ETA: MIL probably needed to lose 5lbs. If I were you, I'd start learning to play the game in this family. No means no, but your dh needs to hear it as "oh so sweet and poor little me, I'm so sad" yada, yada, your getting upset or folding, either one, is useless. MIL is playing, you're going to have to figure out how to play back afa your dh is concerned. Sad, but true. He's more connected to his Mommy than his wife on this point, in case you don't see it.

Edited February 14, 2017 by momacacia

[Anne in CA]

Lots of counselors are not mandatory reporters, evidently. I have a friend in a custody dispute who has her children see a counselor every week and the counselor reported my friend's ex for hurting their dd by dragging her across the house by her wrist. The counselor her ex took them to see spent an entire session telling the girl that dragging an 11yo girl around is normal behavior and that she needed to submit to her father. I am seriously hoping that when the custody case is over my friend sues the counselor who did not report the abuse and told the girl she needed to understand it was normal... 

[Carol in Cal.]

Lots of counselors are not mandatory reporters, evidently. I have a friend in a custody dispute who has her children see a counselor every week and the counselor reported my friend's ex for hurting their dd by dragging her across the house by her wrist. The counselor her ex took them to see spent an entire session telling the girl that dragging an 11yo girl around is normal behavior and that she needed to submit to her father. I am seriously hoping that when the custody case is over my friend sues the counselor who did not report the abuse and told the girl she needed to understand it was normal... 

I don't condone this behavior but am not sure that it rises to the level of legally defined abuse.

[Harriet Vane]

Lots of counselors are not mandatory reporters, evidently. I have a friend in a custody dispute who has her children see a counselor every week and the counselor reported my friend's ex for hurting their dd by dragging her across the house by her wrist. The counselor her ex took them to see spent an entire session telling the girl that dragging an 11yo girl around is normal behavior and that she needed to submit to her father. I am seriously hoping that when the custody case is over my friend sues the counselor who did not report the abuse and told the girl she needed to understand it was normal... 

 

 

Counselors ARE mandated reporters.

 

However, it is very, very common for mandated reporters to not report, whether counselors, teachers, pastors, etc. Like many other people, they might think they need to investigate a situation or they might think they can finesse it along. Some are brilliant and minimizing and denial as well. In other words, sometimes counselors are messed-up human beings too.

 

That said, I do not want to malign counselors as a group. There are many who are at the front lines, sacrificing personally to help others heal and yes, to report and to advocate for abused children. 

 

Your friend's counselor really should be reported. 

[Seasider]

Counselors ARE mandated reporters.

 

However, it is very, very common for mandated reporters to not report, whether counselors, teachers, pastors, etc. Like many other people, they might think they need to investigate a situation or they might think they can finesse it along. Some are brilliant and minimizing and denial as well. In other words, sometimes counselors are messed-up human beings too.

 

That said, I do not want to malign counselors as a group. There are many who are at the front lines, sacrificing personally to help others heal and yes, to report and to advocate for abused children.

 

Your friend's counselor really should be reported.

I think the question is really who issued the counselor a certificate.

 

There are lots of counselors. Not all of them are board certified. But that's a whole nother subject.