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Fake-authentic women? Do you know what I'm talking about? Have you met them? Are you one?


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Fake means "not genuine".

So no, flawlessly appearing skin because of foundation is not genuine flawless skin, and grey hair covered by black dye is not genuine black hair.

I don't see what one can even argue about that. It's the entire point of these things to create an appearance that is different from the genuine one.

I cover my grey. In my entire life I never altered the color of my hair. I like my hair color....the one before it began going grey. I think I will go completely grey someday. But I am only 51 and my hair dresser and my husband are very against it. I was always so proud when people said, 'is that your real color.? ' ... Now I stammer and stutter because well yes it IS my real color but I cover up the grey.

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Is it that they talk a lot about being patient and kind, and healthful, and loving Mother Earth, and then they do something underhanded?

 

Because most people that I know don't talk about that stuff, so if they do, and then they are unkind, it creates this cognitive dissonence.

 

This really struck a chord with me.

 

My cognitive dissonance in the area where I live? I live in an urban area w/ tons of traffic, the Bible belt, with many mega-churches in the area. Quite a few locals display the Christian fish symbols on their car. But, when they tailgate, swerve around, cut me off dangerously in traffic, speed excessively, run lights,... well, I have pretty severe cognitive dissonance. They are not living the life they are professing by being such aggressive, overbearing, & dangerous drivers. Imo. Not saying this is the only case or that they're the only ones who drive aggressively (they're not -- bad driving is rampant regardless of what one does or does not display on the car). But, it's my most frequent instance of cognitive dissonance in my daily life. Maybe I need to be on the road less.

 

Well, I don't go around trying to analyze people, their speech and their intentions, so perhaps I miss a lot of this.  I tend to take people at their word.  I also allow them to decide how much they are going to let me into their inner circle or not.  It doesn't bother me if some people are more superficially polite because not everyone is going to be besties.  Occasionally I've met someone who is an out and out liar and a flake but not often.  I avoid those people.  I can't change them and have no desire to try to do so.  Occasionally I meet someone who is just mean.  I avoid them too.  Again, I can't change them and have no desire to try to do so.  Occasionally I meet people who just see the world in a totally different way than I do.  I try to listen and to find common ground but if we can't, then it's no big deal.  I don't expect everyone to be my clone. 

 

Perhaps it's easier because I am not forced to be in constant contact with people at work.  Though I did work for many years and learned how to get along and to put personalities aside for the sake of the job.  I guess that I do the same when meeting people as a SAHM/ homeschooler / church goer (which is another place where you might be in contact with people who you don't necessarily click with but still need to get along with).  I know how to make small talk and how to ask questions to get people talking about their own passions.  I find that those skills help with those people who I might not have a lot of common with but who are still in my social periphery. 

 

Yes. To all of it. This describes me very well too. I think part of this capability stems from moving a lot growing up & always being tossed into new situations. I had to learn to adapt to the situations, the people, etc.... Just all of it -- yes.

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MY first thought was "you mean like the ladies I encountered on motheringdotcom years ago" haha

I do know what you mean but I don't see it as fitting a particular "type" of woman.  There is always those that put out an image to appear more enlightened than the next guy and yet you know behind closed doors the truth is there.  I know a few of those, and some I knew well enough to know what was happening behind closed doors and had a hard time not biting my tongue clean through when they started to spout their crap.  I still have a couple on my fb friends list and I take everything they say with a grain of salt. Neither are older or grey haired, though both like to think of themselves as being radical thinkers and hippys.

One likes to present herself like the guru of parenting, radical unschooling/world schooling, travelling hippy.  The reality is, her kids are uneducated, they all refuse to live with her by age 13 and yes they live in 3rd world countries at times (she has also put her title on blogs as doing ministry but she is a proud atheist, just to get the followers), they live in the slum areas of those countries to afford to be there etc.  They are back now (she has to spend at least 6 months in country to keep her child tax benefits coming in, which is the only money she gets). SHe posts bragging about how she discovered this free event or that free meal and how anyone can world school and do that, yet the reality is she is getting these things at the community center that are put on for the families living in poverty in the area, so no, not everyone can access them etc.

Another goes on and on about being anti circ, it is mutilation etc, yet 2 of her 3 sons were circ'd, she doesn't tell her anticirc followers that part.  She pushed breastfeeding before that, how breast is not just best but the only way and to do extended nursing etc because it was better for the baby, but told me she only breastfeeds as long as she does because with her depression it was the only thing that she felt was doing right as a parent.  She was bfing the kids until they were well into kindergarten. She also is one to preach antiviolence, peace, mutual respect, yet will also have no problem slandering you behind your back, calling mothers abusive for doing things differently (like if you formula feed you are committing child abuse by poisoning your baby etc).  SHe has a huge following due to the anti circ stuff and puts on a front of being this awesome unschooler.  Yet she came to me asking how to make her kids do school because the school board was looking at charging her with educational neglect because she had not taught her then 16 year old anything in a 2 year period with that board (we are highly regulated here, you have to show proof each year).  Instead of teaching him and the others they declared him a high school drop out.  She also only has the kids for about 12 days of the month, otherwise they are with their father or grandparents.  She has a following due to all the protests she attends for anticirc all over north america.  She only works part time, and lives in subsidized housing, says she will never work more hours because they would increase her rent from the $125 a month she pays right now.  She never pays for what the kids need, they buy their own from their own money or the father buys is.  Instead all her money once the rent and utilities are paid is used to drive around to these protests.  She is seen as this enlightened mother trying to save innocent babies and being a do gooder etc, yet I know the truth about her.  She is as fake as they come.

 

That said those are the only 2 I have ever known to be like that.  The rest are authentic and genuine even if flawed.  They own their flaws (or are so outright catty they are seen for what they are).  They don't try to be someone they aren't (beyond the public image most people put on when meeting someone new for the first time, or on instagram etc).  The vast majority of women just are who they are without putting on airs.

 

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Huh, no, I have very little idea of what you are talking about.

 

Maybe I don't get out enough.

 

Or maybe I'm too busy battling my own demons and those obvious demons that threaten the vulnerable around us to judge the internal contentment/peace/zen-ness of other women?

 

The people who really drive me batty are those who negatively judge those who are going about their business trying to be the best person they can be. 

 

Most of us have aspirations and visions of what kind of person we'd like to be. I personally enjoy being around kind people who are seeking to follow the path they've chosen towards being the best they can be. I guess that's why I enjoy being around serious Christians who are devoted to walking their walk just like I enjoy being around serious humanists/atheists who are also devoted to walking *their* path towards being the best person they can be. And I enjoy being around people who are just confused as heck and struggling and have no idea what path they should be on, but are experimenting and struggling with a goal being to figure out what path they should be on and what they are even aiming towards (teenagers!! love them!) 

 

I've recently had a similar conversation with my 14 year old who was disheartened (judgy) about a friend who is going through a fit-in-phase with a particular clique at that kid's school. I tried to explain to her that "trying on" different personalities/preferences/styles/activities is not only normal but *healthy* as it allows people to explore what sort of person they want to be. It's not in-authentic to start dressing like a flower-child after making friends with some similarly-dressed kids . . . And it's not in-authentic to go for a lot of hikes all of a sudden when you get in with a crowd who likes to hike  . . . And it's not in-authentic to suddenly start going to church twice a week when you've found a church group that is appealing to you . . . Some of these "try ons" might "stick" long term, while most of them will get discarded as the person evolves into whatever their long-term personality/spirit is going to be . . . That's all healthy and good.

 

I don't enjoy holier-than-thou people who spend much of their time tearing down people. I don't enjoy people who spend much of their time finding flaws and weaknesses in others. Not only is that not helpful for the person doing the judging, but it's also just putting energy into a very negative space in relationships and the universe. 

 

We all have weaknesses. We all experiment. We all try to be better (define how you choose) than we are. That's all part of the goodness of humanity, IMHO. We try. We aspire. 

 

I'd rather be around someone who was trying too hard to be a good person than be around someone who is not trying hard enough to be a good person. 

 

See and that is were perception is everything, because I got to the part about not liking the holier than thou and my first thought was "like you are being right now".  Hate internet for lack of tone, because I read this in the tone of someone with that preachy holier than thou attitude that makes me want to punch something.  And yet I highly doubt that is the tone you wrote it with based on the words being used in the post. 

 

I did not find the OP to be judging the person in the way you think.  I found her to be perceiving that something was off about that person for her.

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I think what makes a person fake is when they live a life that is incongruent with who they actually are. It isn't them trying be a better version of their self, it's them trying to be something that they are not. You can feel it when someone is trying to be something they are not because they are intentionally trying to hide who they actually are.

 

I don't think it necessarily comes from a bad place. I think it often stems from insecurity and a genuine desire to be a better person. But, I do find it sad when someone has to be something else because they genuinely believe that what they are isn't enough or the right thing.

 

Like someone else mentioned, this is common personality type in the south but with a different motivation. I think the archetype is probably different given the area you live in.

 

What does that mean to live a life that is incongruent with who you are? The moment I do a thing, is that not congruent with who I am? By definition, when I do something, it is what *I* do. It is a *part* of who I am. It is a part of no one else, and no one else defines me. Even if I may define myself in relation to another person, their actions aren't who *I* am. By the same token, how do I do something and be someone I am not? Who else would I be? Whoever *that* is, doesn't that become *me* since *I* do the thing? So, I don't know what this means, but it's given us a fun topic of conversation in this house.

 

As far as people hiding who they actually are, I wonder if maybe that's just politeness. I've been feeling, let's say, pretty blue lately. I spent a few hours with someone I love, which was a lovely diversion from my own funk. I didn't go into my depression. You might say I "hid" it from them. But was that because I was being "fake" or because I was being polite and didn't wish to make them uncomfortable, putting them on the spot to say something uplifting or cheerful, or God forbid, hopeful. I get Christmas cards from people who share only the pleasantness of the year, even when I know they may be suffering from painful marriages, or hurt parent-child relationships. Is that being "fake," or is it simply not "airing dirty laundry"?

 

You talk about insecurity, and the imagery you use as examples is very solidly left-leaning socially. Do you mean to imply socially conservative people are more secure in their self-identity or esteem than liberally minded people? Or that religious people are more in tune with who they "really are" than those with progressive religious beliefs? You say this is common in the South. Could it be that people like you explain are simply designated "other" because they don't conform to certain social standards and are relatively small in population, and that this "otherness" is then assigned a negative value (because tribalism is how we roll)?

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Ah, I found it...

 

A few years ago I signed up for this woo-woo Theory of Consciousness or something 1 unit online class in order to maintain full-time status.

 

One of my fellow students posted this in her introduction post:

 

 

 

Ahhh, lots of do-gooders in the class. That's good to see. But then
again, I see most of them aren't from the me me me me me generation. 
I'm a boomer. We rocked, didn't we? We actually cared about the world.

...

The elderly, instead of being the
wise elders, are me me me me to the n'th degree. 

...

I see most of you are married. Rings on your fingers? Of course there
are!! I've only ever, in my life, known ONE person to walk the talk on
this one. I've been married over twenty years now -- and did it without
a wedding band (arsenic) and diamonds (blood).

...

Consciousness is about knowing that most of the meat you (not me) eat
is so putrid it's bleached, then dipped in vats of red food coloring and
taste-good stuff. 

 

 

I suspect she may be who you're talking about.

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Ah, I found it...

 

A few years ago I signed up for this woo-woo Theory of Consciousness or something 1 unit online class in order to maintain full-time status.

 

One of my fellow students posted this in her introduction post:

 

 

 

 

I suspect she may be who you're talking about.

 

egads, someone like that would have me getting in trouble with the instructor for failing to not react.  Thankfully it was an online class, one in person you may have had to chase your eyes down the hall after rolling them so hard they fell out of your head.

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Are we talking about women like Sparkling Adventures and Hands Free Mama, who are ridiculously over-the-top preachy about how to live authentically, even while their lives might be falling apart? Struggling with their own problems, but super quick to tell you how to overcome yours?

 

Our are we just talking about flakey women who profess authenticity while they are clearly not the nature of their own domain?

 

Count me among the posters who don't really seem to understand what we're talking about.

 

To answer the question as best I can, no. I don't think I know these women. Pretty much everyone I know fits well into this list of traits, but I can't think of anyone I think is trying to dupe me. I don't know. Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the fake one. My life is a mess, but I'm still trying to present myself in a digital acceptable manner.

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egads, someone like that would have me getting in trouble with the instructor for failing to not react.  Thankfully it was an online class, one in person you may have had to chase your eyes down the hall after rolling them so hard they fell out of your head.

 

I would have thought she was just trolling, but it was like an actual class that goes on your transcript and stuff.

 

In fact, I regretted taking it, because I got a B.

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You agreed to a comment that literally negatively judges women based on certain appearances.

 

This is the most bananas conversation I've read in a long time.

 

Women who don't behave according to expectation are "fake"? Does this include men? When you (in general), don't live up to someone else's expectation, does that mean you're being "fake"?

Women who don't color their hair but wear cosmetics are "fake"?

Environmentalists are "fake"? Does this include men?

Wearing Birks expose you as "fake? Does this include men?

Feminism is "fake"? Does this include men?

 

What makes a person "real"?

 

Edited to add, I'm not angry or trying to accuse anyone of anything. I hope I don't come across that way. I'm just really confused and trying to figure out what makes a person "real," and how something like shoes gives it away. It's like trying to figure out what Deepok Chopra is saying. It seems to "fit" until you try to actually understand it.

 

See, that's not what I meant.

 

I didn't say (not do I believe) that women who are feminists or who don't colour their hair etc are fake. I'm just trying to describe personal experiences with a certain type of a person (in my case, women) and my own perplexity of WHY they appear fake to me, while all the actual atributes, taken on their own, are admirable (to me). It is not about the their attributes, it is just something else.

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I don't really get it. This conversation seems a little bizarre to me. I think I may have met the kind of person the OP is describing, just never classified them as fake anything. I have met people, mostly women, who seemed a little over-the-top woo-woo to me, almost like a caricature. Like a character from Portlandia, maybe.

 

But I've always just taken people at face value, enjoyed their company (or not), and moved on or just enjoyed the occasional situational contact if we don't click. Maybe it's that I don't really meet them with a particular expectation based on their zen (or anything else), so I don't think they're "fake" anything, kwim? Maybe they're just not my cuppa.

 

I think the idea has been bugging me because it seems unkind to me to call people fake, as though we've got a line on who is real and who isn't. We're most of us doing the best we can.

Edited by myfunnybunch
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Ah, I found it...

 

A few years ago I signed up for this woo-woo Theory of Consciousness or something 1 unit online class in order to maintain full-time status.

 

One of my fellow students posted this in her introduction post:

 

 

 

 

I suspect she may be who you're talking about.

Um.... wow. That one. Wowza.

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I live in a world of these people. They make me uncomfortable because I cannot assess accurate personal boundaries. I do not understand the fundamental way they construct their world, so I do not know how to make a commection. It is unsettling.

 

I worked at a "holistic cafe" one summer because the owner was the sister of a family friend. It was as if I was being Punked. Totally another world that I just did not fit. It was a coffee shop supposedly, but no one injested caffine (it will disrupt your enegry). One of the individuals was like a seven year old trapped in a 27 year olds body. He would be so obnoxious and think it was silly or cute. He had spent thousands of dollars on glass bowls which when played the correct way (extensive and very expensive training, mind you) would cure you of illness. The manager believed in the healing power of crystals. She would tuck them in people's pockets if she felt their energy was "off-flow" and made crystal jewelry on the side to ease people's "life pain."

 

Down the way from us is a woman who has grey dreadlocks and wears drop crotch harem pants. She is trying to start a planned living community way out here in the boonies. She refers to herself as "La." My husband asked for clarification three times before I hit him to stop. Really. La. The website for the planned living community seems like a farse it lacks so much substance. Lots of foresty pictures with light beams and water droplets. Though, to be part you have to join their life mission and pay a fat chunk of money. La appears to live in Portland and come up on weekends to do "artist retreats." These bring lots of Thai Fisherman's pants and drop crotch harem pants.

 

La's next door neighbor is the real deal. She is called "Oma" by everyone we know because of how warm and welcoming she is. She has a tattoo in the middle of her forehead which was given to her by monks somewhere in India and has drum circles at her house every other week. There are pictures on the walls of the various people she met and places she was during the Peace Corp years of her twenties. Only, she wears ripped up Levi's, has a very old and annoying cat that she has named a cuss word. She drinks green tea, but also Bourbon. Sometimes she puts Bourbon in her green tea. She has a drum kit in her living room as well as a hammock. In general, she is freaking cool. Totally just a straight up person who has really lived a neat life, but does not brag about it.

 

However, maybe somewhere in her house she has magic listening bowls and crystals in her pockets.

Edited by EndOfOrdinary
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Fake means "not genuine".

So no, flawlessly appearing skin because of foundation is not genuine flawless skin, and grey hair covered by black dye is not genuine black hair.

I don't see what one can even argue about that. It's the entire point of these things to create an appearance that is different from the genuine one.

 

None of those things makes one's personality or overall being "fake", as the poster I responded to initially implied.

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I think I have known women like the op is discussing.  Especially in the theatre and music world.  They wear mumus and birkis , have naturally grey hair, and enunciate every word speaking in round tones all of the time.  I think the disconnect for me is the money.  They would appear to be very simple earth mother types but most are quite wealthy.  They either live in million dollar homes with their artist spouse in wealthy towns or enormous apartments in Manhattan.  On one hand they use their recyclable grocery tote as a purse, but they are wearing a $40 Tom Ford lipstick.  It is like they are able to live an eco-friendly socially conscious lifestyle because they can afford to so so. 

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I must be the "Parenting Expert", cuz that's the only one I didn't find funny and instead just nodded in agreement. (Well, duh, who would make blueberry muffins when blueberries are out of season?!?) LOL

I think I'm an awful mix of parenting expert and hot mess these days. Most of my parenting has been learned via hot mess trial and error. Lol

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I'm kind of clueless, I guess and don't quite get the grey hair thing. Everyone's hair goes grey and we can choose to embrace it or not. Embracing it doesn't make you fake, or I'm in a hell of a lot of trouble. *confused*

 

As to fake authentic people without grey hair, I've met a few of those, but mostly in the church (my personal experience, not a generalization). They don't have grey hair except for the matriarch of the group, because they don't want to be seen as old. They meet in small groups and conversations rarely turn to anything serious. If it does it then can become fodder for gossip under the guise of "prayer requests" of course. They display their authenticness through decorating bought from Hobby Lobby but made in China. 

 

Before you bring out the pitchforks, I'm not saying everyone who does the above is fake, but I ran in that circle for a while and am sharing my experience. 

 

A hippie woman with grey hair, Birkenstocks, and a crystal necklace wouldn't even phase me. Grey hair, duh. Birkenstocks? Well I hear they're pretty comfortable and old feet hurt. Crystal necklace? What about old women wearing a cross? I like what was said above about trying on different personas. I see that at college. I see it in myself. I'm 49 and I sure as heck thought I'd have myself figured out by now, but I still evolving. I'm a person, not a stereotype. So are their fake authentic women? Sure. You can't say it's just women who embrace one type of lifestyle, however. 

 

 

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I must be the "Parenting Expert", cuz that's the only one I didn't find funny and instead just nodded in agreement. (Well, duh, who would make blueberry muffins when blueberries are out of season?!?) LOL

I figure we all here are the 'parenting expert' or we wouldn't sit around on computers sharing homeschooling and life expertise.

 

I thought the Crunchy Mom didn't ring true, though.  I live in CA.  Crunchy is WAY crunchier-LOOKING here.

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I just found "part 2" with the same women as different types of moms:

 
 

:lol: I do the Prematurely Old Mom. Chances are really good I'll have a book, ten different notebooks, a vast array of writing utensils, art projects I'm sketching to paint later, and snacks. And I'll leave at four-thirty. Because dinner.

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Maybe I know what you mean? In the relatively conservative Christian circles I'm from, there are many people and things I admire, but I also know where the dirty underbelly is likely to turn up, so when I see it I'm saddened a bit, but not surprised. When I find myself in a new circle, maybe natural mothering types, I find wonderful things to admire and I notice the dirty underbelly I'm used to expecting is not there. This makes me happy and excited, thinking I've found great people I can wholeheartedly admire at last. Then, wham-O, there is a dirty underbelly, just one I wasn't expecting. I feel gypped, like they had promised me goodness and then taken it away. In actuality, they are just human like everyone else and I shouldn't place any group of people on a pedestal.

Is that what you mean? If not, thanks for the opportunity to work that out for myself, anyway.

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I think maybe I know the type.

 

I don't think they are being fake in the sense of saying they believe things they don't.  (Though, often, it's an emotional rather than rational attachment.)

 

But, I get the sense that they are really presenting a persona - earth mother, or mystic, or whatever.  Thhey see that as embodying their ideal and so they take up what they think are all the trappings - hair style or caftans or whatever.

 

Now - I think everyone has a persona to some extent.  But the more wise and mature people, IMO, know that, and see it in themselves, and so it seems more discerning, less completely what they are about, and often they can have a bit of a laugh about it.  Sure, the persona is there to some extent but there is a stronger sense of the authentic.

 

With the people who seem fake, I feel like they in a sense believe in the persona, which to me suggests they really aren't all that wise.  Seeing oneself clearly is really the first step to wisdom, and if you are still caught up in the trappings, you aren't even close.  THis is I think part of why we expect young people to experiment with that sort of thing and even embrace it, without being judgmental, but it seems odd with someone older, we feel they should have got past that.

 

 

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I live in a world of these people. They make me uncomfortable because I cannot assess accurate personal boundaries. I do not understand the fundamental way they construct their world, so I do not know how to make a commection. It is unsettling.

 

I worked at a "holistic cafe" one summer because the owner was the sister of a family friend. It was as if I was being Punked. Totally another world that I just did not fit. It was a coffee shop supposedly, but no one injested caffine (it will disrupt your enegry). One of the individuals was like a seven year old trapped in a 27 year olds body. He would be so obnoxious and think it was silly or cute. He had spent thousands of dollars on glass bowls which when played the correct way (extensive and very expensive training, mind you) would cure you of illness. The manager believed in the healing power of crystals. She would tuck them in people's pockets if she felt their energy was "off-flow" and made crystal jewelry on the side to ease people's "life pain."

 

Down the way from us is a woman who has grey dreadlocks and wears drop crotch harem pants. She is trying to start a planned living community way out here in the boonies. She refers to herself as "La." My husband asked for clarification three times before I hit him to stop. Really. La. The website for the planned living community seems like a farse it lacks so much substance. Lots of foresty pictures with light beams and water droplets. Though, to be part you have to join their life mission and pay a fat chunk of money. La appears to live in Portland and come up on weekends to do "artist retreats." These bring lots of Thai Fisherman's pants and drop crotch harem pants.

 

La's next door neighbor is the real deal. She is called "Oma" by everyone we know because of how warm and welcoming she is. She has a tattoo in the middle of her forehead which was given to her by monks somewhere in India and has drum circles at her house every other week. There are pictures on the walls of the various people she met and places she was during the Peace Corp years of her twenties. Only, she wears ripped up Levi's, has a very old and annoying cat that she has named a cuss word. She drinks green tea, but also Bourbon. Sometimes she puts Bourbon in her green tea. She has a drum kit in her living room as well as a hammock. In general, she is freaking cool. Totally just a straight up person who has really lived a neat life, but does not brag about it.

 

However, maybe somewhere in her house she has magic listening bowls and crystals in her pockets.

 

This reminds me a bit of my good friend's parents.  They were part of the hippy wave that settled here in the Vietnam war, and are the real deal.  And while you could pick out that they have some of the hippy trappings, it isn't outlandish, they are super down to earth and kind, they live what they believe as much as anyone does - the trappings are almost an aside.  Nice, very intelligent people. 

 

OTOH, they have some neighbours who came at the same time who do not give that impression.  One set of people who seem to have more of the trappings, but less substance - I can't say more as I don't know them well, but they just seem to conscious of the appearance of things.  And another guy who gives retreats in the woods about connecting with your authentic manhood, but his hippy values seem pretty undercut when you find out he lives off the income from some very well managed investments and actually isn't self-sufficient at all.

 

I think you can find these kinds of people in other circles as well - academia has some, for example. They think they are all that, but it just isn't there.   But it most typically has to be a setting where you can mistake the appearance for the reality in a convincing way.  If you try and fake a "great surgeon" persona it will only work so long as people don't know you really don't know about being a surgeon, and you are bound to realize it yourself.  You'd just be a con artist then.

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Is this a west coast thing?

 

Not for me, I can dip my toes in the Atlantic here.

 

Seriously though, I think its a personality thing that can happen with different profiles - not just crunchy/spiritual types.  It's more obvious with some than others, though.  Trying to seem "authentic" when you are taking on a persona is likely to set off people's sense of "something is off here."

 

And, I do feel like in some places, people have less patience for that kind of thing, or maybe less time for it - doing it or putting up with it.  My potty-mouth cousin would say those are places where "the *&%$ gets real."

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See, that's not what I meant.

 

I didn't say (not do I believe) that women who are feminists or who don't colour their hair etc are fake. I'm just trying to describe personal experiences with a certain type of a person (in my case, women) and my own perplexity of WHY they appear fake to me, while all the actual atributes, taken on their own, are admirable (to me). It is not about the their attributes, it is just something else.

 

Then I'm even more confused, lol! It seems people have different ideas about what this "fakeness" looks like, but I thought as I fit this stereotype somewhat, I'd offer my own person explanation. And maybe in the spirit of peace between two different cultures, I can help you understand mine and remove some of the mystery. It's long, so if you don't want to read it I'll totally understand. ^_^

 

I used to color my hair for reasons that are probably familiar to a lot of women. Recently I stopped doing it. My hair is long. I don't think I could get away with short hair, and I'm not responsible enough to get to the hairdressers as often as necessary to keep a shorter hairstyle looking nice (that's also one of the reasons I stopped coloring). I still wear cosmetics, but not much - a little CC cream to hide the red splotches, a little cream blush to give me color, a little mascara to avoid looking like I have beady little rodent eyes. I have very dark, hooded eyes against very fair skin. As I get older, the fair skin seems more washed out, but the dark color of my eyes don't fade. Eye shadow can't be seen well because of my lids, but sometimes I'll apply some.

 

I wear longer flowing clothes because, despite the many years since I've had babies, I still have quite a bit of tummy. Longer clothes hide the tummy better, and flowing clothes don't accentuation the muffin top. These for me are practical. They're also much more comfortable, as I don't have to constantly adjust my clothing to make sure blobs of flesh pop out here and there.

 

I don't care for Birkenstock shoes. I find them too hard, like walking on hard wood floors. I like other shoes similar to these in style though because I can't wear high heels. As much as I'd love to (I think they look so elegant), my feet are too wide and any shoe that fits would be so long that my foot pops out in the back and then I step out of my shoe, and plant my face firmly on the floor, or if I'm lucky, into the wall next to me, or perhaps the person I'm shopping with. God forbid the shoe rack. I don't care for tennis shoes, but only because that look reminds me of my mother and makes me feel older than I care to feel. It's a personal thing, although I have to admit they are awfully comfortable. I have a pair of retro looking Doc Martin flats that I love, but they gave me a terrible blister last time I got lost and had to walk for some time. I started wearing my runners because of this, ego be damned.

 

I think with my fair skin and dark features, silver jewelry looks better on me. Gold feels, I don't know, not my style. Like I'm trying to put on airs. I think this is because I really don't do anything that requires dressing up and gold feels like "dressing up" jewelry. I don't get this impression with others. I think it's a lovely metal and I think it looks fantastic on many women. I'm just not comfortable in it. Most of my earrings look like they're from Tibet, as indeed I buy them from stores like that. A throwback to the 90's maybe? I don't usually wear jewelry, though.

 

I'm a feminist in the spirit of supporting equality between genders. I'm an environmentalist in the spirit of doing what I can to act responsibly with the knowledge we do have about our impact on the environment. I am liberal in the spirit of encouraging curiosity, supporting innovation, questioning the status-quo against new information, whether or not it supports beloved beliefs. I'm not vegan, but I do have the utmost respect for those who apply this ethical belief in a practical, functional way. I do buy organic foods when I can, and my eggs and meat I purchase are free-range and certified humanely treated animals, to the best of my ability. I do this because I recognize what farmers spray on their fields eventually gets into the groundwater. No action is isolated against consequences. The humane treatment for animals is for ethical reasons because I recognize animals do in fact have very real, genuine emotions, like pleasure and fear, and there's no reason to ignore that for profit. I value empathy. I live in a region where this is very easy to do.

 

I don't use crystals. I don't think they have any properties, energy, magic, spiritual, or what have you. But then, I don't use prayer either, for the same reason. I feel like, from my perspective, when a woman thinks she's channeling her energy into a crystal for the sake of another person, you call that "fake" because in reality that doesn't work but she acts like it, even if she has to pretend (even to herself). But if a woman thinks she's channeling her energy into a prayer for the sake of another person, that's not fake, despite prayer being no more effective than crystals. So that's a double standard there that isn't fair, and it isn't nice. On another post, one Christian said she doesn't want to call herself a Christian anymore because Christians keep doing things that are un-Christ-like, but I wonder, how would you feel if I started a thread about Christians being "fake" people? I don't know if you're a Christian, but probably you know a few, and if you're friends with Christians you'll know they're not "fake" just because they're Christians. If I were to say Christians aren't fake, but then try to identify fake people by listing attributes common to Christians, you might see right through it.

 

In short, I think we all are doing what we can to make things work out for us and for our loved ones in a life that doesn't necessarily go according to plan. Sometimes what we do doesn't work even though we've quite convinced ourselves it has, whether that applies to crystals or prayer. I don't think that makes any of us fake. Sometimes our actions have negative effects on others, but we don't see it. Sometimes not right away, sometimes not ever. I don't think that's limited to socially progressive people, I think that's just being human. Sometimes we just don't find other people compatible socially. This isn't because they're fake or bad, but because we just don't have enough similarities or common references. I hope this helps shed some light on those of us who may look fake to you, but are really doing what we do because we genuinely feel it's right. Like all of us do.

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Then I'm even more confused, lol! It seems people have different ideas about what this "fakeness" looks like, but I thought as I fit this stereotype somewhat, I'd offer my own person explanation. And maybe in the spirit of peace between two different cultures, I can help you understand mine and remove some of the mystery. It's long, so if you don't want to read it I'll totally understand. ^_^

 

I used to color my hair for reasons that are probably familiar to a lot of women. Recently I stopped doing it. My hair is long. I don't think I could get away with short hair, and I'm not responsible enough to get to the hairdressers as often as necessary to keep a shorter hairstyle looking nice (that's also one of the reasons I stopped coloring). I still wear cosmetics, but not much - a little CC cream to hide the red splotches, a little cream blush to give me color, a little mascara to avoid looking like I have beady little rodent eyes. I have very dark, hooded eyes against very fair skin. As I get older, the fair skin seems more washed out, but the dark color of my eyes don't fade. Eye shadow can't be seen well because of my lids, but sometimes I'll apply some.

 

I wear longer flowing clothes because, despite the many years since I've had babies, I still have quite a bit of tummy. Longer clothes hide the tummy better, and flowing clothes don't accentuation the muffin top. These for me are practical. They're also much more comfortable, as I don't have to constantly adjust my clothing to make sure blobs of flesh pop out here and there.

 

I don't care for Birkenstock shoes. I find them too hard, like walking on hard wood floors. I like other shoes similar to these in style though because I can't wear high heels. As much as I'd love to (I think they look so elegant), my feet are too wide and any shoe that fits would be so long that my foot pops out in the back and then I step out of my shoe, and plant my face firmly on the floor, or if I'm lucky, into the wall next to me, or perhaps the person I'm shopping with. God forbid the shoe rack. I don't care for tennis shoes, but only because that look reminds me of my mother and makes me feel older than I care to feel. It's a personal thing, although I have to admit they are awfully comfortable. I have a pair of retro looking Doc Martin flats that I love, but they gave me a terrible blister last time I got lost and had to walk for some time. I started wearing my runners because of this, ego be damned.

 

I think with my fair skin and dark features, silver jewelry looks better on me. Gold feels, I don't know, not my style. Like I'm trying to put on airs. I think this is because I really don't do anything that requires dressing up and gold feels like "dressing up" jewelry. I don't get this impression with others. I think it's a lovely metal and I think it looks fantastic on many women. I'm just not comfortable in it. Most of my earrings look like they're from Tibet, as indeed I buy them from stores like that. A throwback to the 90's maybe? I don't usually wear jewelry, though.

 

I'm a feminist in the spirit of supporting equality between genders. I'm an environmentalist in the spirit of doing what I can to act responsibly with the knowledge we do have about our impact on the environment. I am liberal in the spirit of encouraging curiosity, supporting innovation, questioning the status-quo against new information, whether or not it supports beloved beliefs. I'm not vegan, but I do have the utmost respect for those who apply this ethical belief in a practical, functional way. I do buy organic foods when I can, and my eggs and meat I purchase are free-range and certified humanely treated animals, to the best of my ability. I do this because I recognize what farmers spray on their fields eventually gets into the groundwater. No action is isolated against consequences. The humane treatment for animals is for ethical reasons because I recognize animals do in fact have very real, genuine emotions, like pleasure and fear, and there's no reason to ignore that for profit. I value empathy. I live in a region where this is very easy to do.

 

I don't use crystals. I don't think they have any properties, energy, magic, spiritual, or what have you. But then, I don't use prayer either, for the same reason. I feel like, from my perspective, when a woman thinks she's channeling her energy into a crystal for the sake of another person, you call that "fake" because in reality that doesn't work but she acts like it, even if she has to pretend (even to herself). But if a woman thinks she's channeling her energy into a prayer for the sake of another person, that's not fake, despite prayer being no more effective than crystals. So that's a double standard there that isn't fair, and it isn't nice. On another post, one Christian said she doesn't want to call herself a Christian anymore because Christians keep doing things that are un-Christ-like, but I wonder, how would you feel if I started a thread about Christians being "fake" people? I don't know if you're a Christian, but probably you know a few, and if you're friends with Christians you'll know they're not "fake" just because they're Christians. If I were to say Christians aren't fake, but then try to identify fake people by listing attributes common to Christians, you might see right through it.

 

In short, I think we all are doing what we can to make things work out for us and for our loved ones in a life that doesn't necessarily go according to plan. Sometimes what we do doesn't work even though we've quite convinced ourselves it has, whether that applies to crystals or prayer. I don't think that makes any of us fake. Sometimes our actions have negative effects on others, but we don't see it. Sometimes not right away, sometimes not ever. I don't think that's limited to socially progressive people, I think that's just being human. Sometimes we just don't find other people compatible socially. This isn't because they're fake or bad, but because we just don't have enough similarities or common references. I hope this helps shed some light on those of us who may look fake to you, but are really doing what we do because we genuinely feel it's right. Like all of us do.

 

I love (and identify with) every word of this. 

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I can identify with the concept of a fake person but it's not just women or any in any particular field/walk of life though I've mostly seen it in people who run small businesses where they are the brand. Some people do that fine and as appropriate but others it's constant, you never feel you see the real person just a well curated surface. Every thing is filtered even if you know them personally, they just can't drop the act. I don't always notice it quickly though, it can take a while. It can make them hard to trust because it feels like there's an element of manipulation going on.

Edited by lailasmum
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I think if the OP thought all these overlaps of charachteristics she noticed were in themselves fake, or bad, she wouldn't have said she was attracted to them.  Presumably there are people with thee charachteristics that she likes.

 

What she seems to be saying, from what I can see, is that within this group of people who seem to be interested in authenticity, there is a sub-group of reasonable size that gives her an ill-defined sense that they are somehow faking it - there is something "off".

 

Perhaps that is very general, but I presume that is why she is trying to put her finger on what it is about these individuals that seems off.  I don't think our intuition about such things is always correct, but I do think it can sometimes perceive things that are true but we can't narrow down or articulate yet.

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I'm not drawn to that type of person, and we don't have any super-crunchy types in our circles, but I don't understand what people are confused about.

 

Perhaps it's easier to understand with celebrities.  Jennifer Lawrence is quite authentic.  She's charming and self-depreciating and funny, and even though I'm sure her life has changed in a million ways since she became so successful, her basic attitude and the way she relates to people isn't simply a brand, it's authentic.  It's who she's always been, and people like her even when she's the first person (publicly) to have a relationship with Chris Martin after he left Gwyneth Paltrow, nobody cared.  People still like her.

 

Gwyneth Paltrow, on the other hand, isn't open about any of her vulnerabilities.  Instead she pretends they do not exist.  She gets a divorce, and instead of explaining how messed up it is that she married a man who's always and openly discussed questioning his sexuality, or talking about how devastating it is, or even that she might be worried about how this will hurt her kids, she puts out this pretentious statement not that she's getting a divorce, but that they are consciously uncoupling. Implying that even when she's going through a breakup, she's doing it better than YOU are.   You can admire this seeming perfection from a distance, but when you get up close to it you see that someone like this refuses to ever be vulnerable.  It's fake. It's inauthentic. It's condescending.  It's highly probable there is some degree of narcissism going on, or at the very least an extremely carefully managed brand that has nothing to do with who she is, unless all she is only shallow.

 

In Christian cultures this looks different than in crunchy cultures or intellectual cultures or Southern culture.  But all over the country there are women who refuse to examine their feelings, admit when they are wrong, or show any vulnerability.  These people are, at a very minimum, inauthentic.  Sometimes they are worse.

 

Edited to correct grammar.

Edited by Katy
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I'm not drawn to that type of person, and we don't have any super-crunchy types in our circles, but I don't understand what people are confused about.

 

Perhaps it's easier to understand with celebrities.  Jennifer Lawrence is quite authentic.  She's charming and self-depreciating and funny, and even though I'm sure her life has changed in a million ways since she became so successful, her basic attitude and the way she relates to people isn't simply a brand, it's authentic.  It's who she's always been, and people like her even when she's the first person (publicly) to have a relationship with Chris Martin after he left Gwyneth Paltrow, nobody cared.  People still like her.

 

Gwyneth Paltrow, on the other hand, isn't open about any of her vulnerabilities.  Instead she pretends they do not exist.  She gets a divorce, and instead of explaining how messed up it is that she married a man who's always and openly discussed questioning his sexuality, or talking about how devastating it is, or even that she might be worried about how this will hurt her kids, she puts out this pretentious statement not that she's getting a divorce, but that they are consciously uncoupling. Implying that even when she's going through a breakup, she's doing it better than YOU are.   You can admire this seeming perfection from a distance, but when you get up close to it you see that someone like this refuses to ever be vulnerable.  It's fake. It's inauthentic. It's condescending.  It's highly probable there is some degree of narcissism going on, or at the very least an extremely carefully managed brand that has nothing to do with who she is, unless all she is only shallow.

 

In Christian cultures this looks different than in crunchy cultures or intellectual cultures or Southern culture.  But all over the country there are women who refuse to examine their feelings, admit when they are wrong, or show any vulnerability.  These people are, at a very minimum, inauthentic.  Sometimes they are worse.

 

Edited to correct grammar.

 

Very well put. This is what I keep coming back to when I think of this thread. I have met many women whose projected image doesn't "sit right" with me. The commonality isn't their subculture, it's their personal authenticity/realness.

 

Edited due to technical issues. 

Edited by Janie Grace
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Very well put. This is what I keep coming back to when I think of this thread. I have met many women whose projected image doesn't "sit right" with me. The commonality isn't their subculture, it's their personal authenticity/realness.

 

Edited due to technical issues. 

 

I understand that but I don't understand what is so confusing about that being the case.  I mean, I don't get everyone's choices in what image they choose and how vulnerable they might want to be with others, simply because those aren't the kinds of choices I would make, but I recognize that it is their choice.  And honestly, unless they are conning people or manipulating them, they aren't hurting anyone.  I wouldn't choose to make these people my best friends but I can be polite to them and let them go their way without needing to analyze them. 

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I know someone like this (maybe more, but one really jumps to mind). She acts like a free-flowing hippy type and makes a big deal about being an unschooler and how important it is to let kids do what they want (wrt learning). But she micromanages her tween on everything. She won't let her get her hair cut because she likes it long, she has her check in every few minutes at the park, etc., she admonishes her for slightly exuberant behavior. Tons of examples along these lines, but when people discuss learning she is all "the children know what they need and we should never impose our will on that process" sort of stuff. Which I don't necessarily agree with, but at least I can see that other unschoolers in our group really believe that, and everything they do with their kids clearly follows from this belief. Not so with her - at all. And it's the same with other areas - talks all about new age stuff, very artsy, very into alternative ideas, but when it comes to specifics she has to have things her way and she says things like "I would never" about things she hasn't really considered, etc. - but the unschooling w/ super-strict parenting really stands out the most to me.

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I understand that but I don't understand what is so confusing about that being the case.  I mean, I don't get everyone's choices in what image they choose and how vulnerable they might want to be with others, simply because those aren't the kinds of choices I would make, but I recognize that it is their choice.  And honestly, unless they are conning people or manipulating them, they aren't hurting anyone.  I wouldn't choose to make these people my best friends but I can be polite to them and let them go their way without needing to analyze them. 

 

I think many people are interested in what makes people tick.  Sometimes individual people, but many want to think about why some types of people behave that way.

 

Why are some people domineering of others?  What makes someone an overachiever, or laid back?  Etc.

 

I didn't get the impression the OP was spending her days analyzing people she's met.  Just that she noticed a pattern and is curious about what might be behind it.

 

I don't understand why its considered negative to be interested in why people behave the way they do.  That's pretty much all of psychology and sociology and anthropology and much of medical science, not to mention literature, history, economics, and politics.  And you can't understand people in general unless you look at individuals.

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