myfantasticfour Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) My daughter is 12, and I am having a hard time figuring out where to start with her in SWB's methods described in TWTM 4th edition, as well as Write With Ease that I got for our younger sons. I can see that the ability to do dictation is not something to jump into at the fourth grade level, for someone who has never done it before, even if she is 12. But what then? Start at second level dictation and hope to go through it all a lot faster? Skip dictation and get Writing With Skill? I think copywork would even do her some good at this point, as her mechanics and grammar leave much to be desired. Apparently the Houghton-Mifflin Spelling and Vocabulary books weren't as useful as they seemed, for learning and retention of their content, because they also contain a writing component with punctuation, light grammar, etc, but in attempting dictation, I see she has no intuitive grasp of mechanics, and even her spelling is weak. How can I get her up to speed for 8th grade, in such a short time? Is there a way to "fast-track" dictation and copywork in the remaining months til 8th grade, so that we can start diagramming and formal grammar? Also, when doing dictation, I still don't get how it is to be done: Does one read entire sentences at a time, but slowly, pausing to let the student's writing speed catch up, or is the student expected not to write anything until the reading is done, and then write the entire dictation from memory? Hoping anyone can help me sort all this out. Edited February 2, 2017 by myfantasticfour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I wrote a recent post about starting my third graders (last year) on level three and realized after 6 months that it was a mistake. I ended up dropping a year and a half and they (and I) were so much happier. It is a skill that requires practice. My husband and I could barely do the dictations in WWE 3, and we are college-educated adults! Personally, I think starting even at level 2 might be appropriate. You could easily do two weeks of WWE in one week and/or be selective about what to work on. I understand wanting to catch her up a bit, but working on the fundamentals will pay off greatly in the long run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiara.I Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 As to spelling, you might want to get her a good phonetic spelling program and go through that. Dictation is supposed to be read to the end and memorised by the student, then written. You could consider giving her a page one day as copywork and then the next as dictation, for a bit. Also, check her reading. Use the "New Elizabethan" test on this page to assess whether she needs some catch-up reading work too. http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 If it is troublesome to get (or you) to start her at a lower level for dictation, dictate sentences to her from other books of she is using. Perhaps spend three weeks doing copywork one day, then dictating the same sentence the next day. Repeat the sentence three-ish times, then have her say it back to you before she starts writing. Help her as needed. Phase out that studied dictation and move to dictation from scratch. Pick sentences that you think will be successful (and a bit challenging) for her! Dictation is a good skill to work on, but not a critical skill to master, like, say, fractions is. Slow and steady practice, preferably without tears on either side, will produce results. FYI, WWE 4 is difficult for most people and rarely happens exactly as scripted. It is also considered optional. Don't let it overly trouble you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creekside5 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I definitely think you need to do copy work before doing dictation. I would choose a simple sentence with maybe a list or a series of events. The objective would to learn capital letters, commas in a series, spelling of the words, and a period at the end. Point out all these things and discuss them while/before doing copy work. She should copy the sentence perfectly. The next day orally drill the concepts and tough spelling words. Read the sentence together 3 or 4 times so she is very familiar with it. On the third day do a dictation. Go as slow as necessary, but hopefully she can retain the whole sentence. Ask her what she was to remember: commas, capital letters, period and spelling. Have her double check her dictation before she turns it in. If she can do one sentence well, move on to two. Keep building the dictation skills and the grammar/spelling skills. Memorization is a different skill from dictation, so I wouldn't give her a whole paragraph to memorize for dictation. Do as much as she can remember and repeat if necessary, but the goal would be to not have to repeat yourself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creekside5 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Sorry all- can't figure out how to delete a post. I keep double posting. :( Edited February 2, 2017 by SRoss5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beka87 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I like what SRoss5 said above about using the sentence for copy work, then dictation. This is a form of studied dictation and is really effective, especially if you sit and discuss concepts with her before she copies and before you dictate. Depending on the length of the sentence, it IS okay to break it up or repeat a portion, especially when she is just beginning dictation as a skill. When she is comfortable with this and doing fairly well, DON'T immediately lengthen the dictation. Instead, tell her to study a short paragraph, noting all punctuation, capitalization, etc. and making note of words whose spelling might trip her up. Train her to be able to do this on her own. Let her study the passage as long as she likes, then read one or two sentences from it as dictation. She doesn't get to know which sentences you are picking beforehand. From here, you can gradually increase length of dictation to a whole paragraph. This takes a lot of time and I would modify whatever curriculum you use as necessary until the skill is acquired. Dictation is a fabulous tool, but it can't be rushed. I also prefer studied to unstudied dictation for anyone not in high school. FWIW, I don't have a problem reading slowly or occasionally repeating a sentence or phrase. I don't think too many kids, in the beginning, at least, can here a whole paragraph once and write it from memory. Ideally, of course, that's how it works, but I say just use your discretion and just keep slowly moving toward that ideal (whether or not you ever get there). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 We are first year homeschoolers and copywork and dictation was totally new to my children. The first time I did dictation with my 6th grader he ended up in tears. I was trying to do a whole paragraph with him. I realized I had to back way up and start with one sentence, then build to two, three, etc. We are now doing full paragraphs. I let him study it first, then I read one sentence at a time, and I do read it again as needed. I don't think I could memorize a whole paragraph and write it, so I don't expect my student to do that either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 My daughter is 12, and I am having a hard time figuring out where to start with her in SWB's methods described in TWTM 4th edition, as well as Write With Ease that I got for our younger sons. I can see that the ability to do dictation is not something to jump into at the fourth grade level, for someone who has never done it before, even if she is 12. But what then? Start at second level dictation and hope to go through it all a lot faster? Skip dictation and get Writing With Skill? I think copywork would even do her some good at this point, as her mechanics and grammar leave much to be desired. Apparently the Houghton-Mifflin Spelling and Vocabulary books weren't as useful as they seemed, for learning and retention of their content, because they also contain a writing component with punctuation, light grammar, etc, but in attempting dictation, I see she has no intuitive grasp of mechanics, and even her spelling is weak. How can I get her up to speed for 8th grade, in such a short time? Is there a way to "fast-track" dictation and copywork in the remaining months til 8th grade, so that we can start diagramming and formal grammar? Also, when doing dictation, I still don't get how it is to be done: Does one read entire sentences at a time, but slowly, pausing to let the student's writing speed catch up, or is the student expected not to write anything until the reading is done, and then write the entire dictation from memory? Hoping anyone can help me sort all this out. This is a common question. The video I've linked below helped me a lot. It shows SWB herself doing dictation with one of her sons. Real life stuff. There's also a part 2 video that you can look up if this is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfantasticfour Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Wow, thank you, all of you! So many helpful tips, and especially the video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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