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How much do I ask of a reading 4 yr old?


Mama Anna
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Hey! I'm new here, so I'm just learning the ropes. I've lurked for awhile, though and appreciated the wisdom I've gleaned . . .

 

I've got a 4yo dd who I'm putting through K right now due to the fact that she was teaching herself to read before her 4th birthday last summer. She's having no trouble with JW's OPGTR (I have to drag her away from books for meals) and Saxon Math K, I've also got her doing ZB K Handwriting. She shows general readiness for 1st grade work next year and I'm aching (she's my oldest) to move into SOTW 1 and simple Biology. Should I try a full WTM first grade year (Writing, Grammar, Math, History, Science, Bible, etc.) or should I just let her float a little longer before asking that much of her? She's always had a long attention span and is quite workbook happy. I guess I'm just not sure if I'll be pushing her too hard . . .

 

Anyone BTDT? (I figured this board might have more people experienced with this "problem.") :p

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I believe that everything beyond play at that age should be because the child wants to do it. If starting on WTM will cause you to think that it 'should' be done, then I'd stick with more casual stuff.

 

A quick word about SOTW. The problem with starting it young is that you will hit the 20th century when your child is around seven or eight. It was a tough century and, whatever their intellectual capabilities, children may not be ready for the emotional impact of it. If you really want to start early, you can spread the early books out, doing lots of projects and reading library books.

 

For what it's worth, with Hobbes I spent a year doing fun periods of history before starting SOTW. We did Ancient Egypt plus castles and knights. There was tons of time for reading library books and doing projects. We also did a lot of basic geography that year (playing with the globe, etc.). I can't say that much stuck with him, but it was a nice introduction to learning.

 

Oh, and if she's reading, just let her read. Keep lots of books on hand, make them available, but don't push.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura (one son tested highly gifted, the other untested but also up there)

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Yep, I've been there and done that. My oldest decided at three and a half she wanted to know how to read. So we did Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. We were on lesson 43 when she told me it was boring and picked up an Amanda Pig book and read it fluently. She was reading Harry Potter before her fourth birthday. She hasn't slowed down since then.

 

So I do have a clue about dealing with super advanced readers and even advanced kids (they are not always the same). But I would not suggest you go into doing any full curriculum with your daughter. I would instead talk to her about whatever it is she wants to know about. Read books about the topic of the week. Play as much as you can. Explore everything.

 

I know it is hard not to want to have her "reach her potential" but you will do that by simply letting her lead the way. If she wants to read about the things in the WTM first grade section then do it. If she wants to spend a month and a half on cats and another month on the history of France then do it. If she wants to do worksheet after worksheet then do it. But truly let her lead.

 

You'll have plenty of time to do first grade. What you won't always have is a four year old little girl. Enjoy the fourness. It will be gone far too fast.

 

I wish I had been able to slow down when my oldest was four. She wanted so very very much to make me happy and would do anything for me. But somehow things got confused and she tangled doing school work correctly with making me happy yielding an unhappy perfectionist who is afraid of getting anything wrong because "Mommy would be mad." It is an awful situation. Mommy will not be mad at wrong math problems, but I can't get that through her head. I expect we are going to need to outsource much of our schoolwork to deal with this problem. That way Mommy can help with out being the person who corrects the work. But I am not answering your question anymore. Good luck.

 

Jenne in AZ

(dd9, ds7, ds3, a newbie in September)

(Sprog and Mouse)

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I started homeschooling dd with just reading and Saxon K math. Once she was beginning to read independantly, I added SOTW1, and FLL and just fed her books on a variety of subjects.

 

Don't be afraid to make adjustments if your dd's development in some areas is disproportionate to others. With my dd I had to approach the writing very gently, as her fine moter skill was pretty much at age level. I modified her lessons for the first 2 - 3 years so as not to frustrate her with too much writing. Also spelling didn't seem to "click" for her until she was 6 - 7 years old, but since then she has more than made up for lost time. At this time, both her spelling and writing are quickly approaching the same grade level as the rest of her studies.

 

So have fun, be flexible, and watch your child's eyes. I could always tell when my dd had had enough because her eyes would glaze over and she would seem to forget everything she understood completely just a few minutes earlier. Don't be tempted to finish a lesson after she is tired. Take a break and come back to it later. There is plenty of time :)

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I would stick with books and activities that can be easily picked up, dropped, and picked up again at this age, rather than linear curriculum - - reading lots of myths and stories is a better choice than SOTW, for example, and a variety of science books are better than a biology course.

 

There are two main pitfalls to curriculum at this age, imo. One is that it tends to crowd out the far greater need for tremendous amounts of active play and concrete learning. Trips to the zoo always beat books about animals, kwim?The other is that it is very, very hard not to push a tiny bit when an active, able learner becomes reluctant. The nature of curriculum is that you move forward, and it's very hard to not nudge a capable child who suddenly doesn't want to do the seatwork.

 

Quite a few kids read at a young age, but early reading does not equate to academic readiness, especially seat work and formal curriculum. It's fine to have lots of books and workbooks AVAILABLE (my oldest dd did so many workbooks at this age!), but I would not have a formal plan of any sort.

 

Enjoy this time! She is always learning, I promise you. And when she's nine, like my oldest, you'll think back wistfully to the days when you didn't HAVE to do formal schoolwork.

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At that age with my oldest, I did lots of Charlotte Mason inspired reading, informal narrations (i.e. talking about what we read), and some math (DD's request). When she was closer to 5 we added in some other subjects and now at 6 she has a relatively full complement, However I still don't assign readings and we don't do a formal writing program or literature analysis, because I think she's too young to have such things asked of her. We let her self pace in everything except History, choosing to supplement with read alouds of literature, myths and legends and historical fiction. Ancients took about 15 months to complete, and I expect Medieval to take longer. We have the luxury of time. :)

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I'd think about doing a foreign language (orally) and music, and then just lots and lots of library books and projects. Foreign languages and music are two of those things where it is an advantage to learn them young. Our library has tons of nice science, nature, and history books, as well as fiction, so we just got a huge stack out each week and either read them together, or (mostly) my son read them to himself. He learned a lot this way and I could be sure I wasn't burning him out and making him take a dislike to the formal schooling that would come later. It didn't look particularly impressive and I often wondered if I was doing the wrong thing and wasting a few years, but in retrospect I can tell I did the right thing, especially when my son says, as we are reading Dante's Inferno, "Don't you know that story? So-and-so was the guy who ..." Or "That's a such-and-such beetle." Or "Queen blank did ..." He did lots and lots of natural history, art, cooking, learned to use woodworking tools, did origami, learned to play chess, worked on puzzles of all sorts, learned poems and songs, learned to play the recorder, ... Anyway, you get the idea.

 

I didn't do formal math with mine until they were older, but you might vary on that. Just be aware that children learn math in the following order (supposedly) - with concrete items, then with imagined pictures of concrete items, then with words representing the concrete items, and then and only then with symbols representing the words that represent the concrete items. You can spend a long time and do a LOT of math while leaving the writing-it-out-as-numbers stage for later. We did lots of long word problems in the car, just for fun. If you jump to the written representation of a word representing an idea too quickly, your child may get confused. Just something to keep that in mind.

 

We chose to go for breadth rather than depth. My children aren't brilliant, just brightish, so you might wind up doing something radically different LOL, but maybe some of this will give you some ideas.

 

I'm glad we didn't do SOTW until my son was 7 because of the 20th century thing. I'm finding the same thing applies with the logic stage, and even at the rhetoric stage. Much of 20th century literature is grim and not something my children can deal with easily. We're substituting lots of scifi and humour and I figure they can read their 20th cent. literature and history when they are 40, if they want to, and they'll appreciate it more then. SOTW (grammar) and Kingfisher (logic) and Spielvogel (rhetoric) did/are doing a nice overview, and they are doing all their extra reading back farther in time.

 

HTH

-Nan

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I was once in the same situation. Our daughters sound much alike--early readers, long attention spans and workbook lovers. We've been homeschooling since my dd was 4; she is now 9 years old.

 

Let me share what I did, and then what I might have done differently.

 

My dd was showing school readiness at age 4 as well. The most important thing that we did was use the library a lot and read, read, read. I added in each school subject slowly to make sure that dd wasn't overwhelmed and to try to get the right level of schooling. We started with Miquon Orange and then added in Singapore 1A a few months later. She loved Miquon then, although some of the charm wore of in later years. Our first subject was biology, following many of the WTM guidelines. There are many excellent books about plants and animals for that age. It is also a great way to introduce more difficult reading without introducing subjects that are too mature. DD did an oral narration each week. I typed it up and she added stickers or drawings. We did this through the summer--it was really fun and wonderful. In the fall (about 6 months after we started), we started with SOTW1 and FLL. Our total school time was around 2 and a half hours, but most of it was read-aloud. For history, we read SOTW and lots of library books. We did a craft from the AG every week. We did the maps and narrations (again orally). DD loved FLL--the lessons are short and we made them very active. We continued with Miquon and Singapore, although handwriting was difficult for dd, so I wrote many of the answers down for her.

 

Our first year of schooling was really wonderful. DD loved learning and begged for school every day of the week. I certainly wasn't pushing her to learn. So, if your dd has the right personality, school can be great at that age. I've never regretted starting early.

 

Now for the 20/20 hindsight.

 

I would definitely do Biology again. It was perfect for that age and time.

 

DD loved learning about history, but she would have loved any subject that included lots of crafts and read-alouds. I had to skip over some Ancient History subjects/books that were too scary for my sensitive dd. We did Modern history last year at age 8. SOTW4 was not a great fit, but we focused on inventions, artists, composers and other famous people. It was an excellent year, but definitely not "mainstream" SOTW. I don't know if I would change anything that we did for history, but I can see validity to focusing on geography or selective history subjects instead and starting SOTW1 later.

 

DD was ready for math when we started. The one thing that I learned was the need to let her go at her own pace. She could race through dozens of pages in a week, and then do just a few the next. She does not love math (even though she is quite capable) and I've slowed down quite a bit over the last year.

 

FLL is perfect for an advanced reader at your dd's age. It is mostly oral and moves pretty slowly.

 

Hmmm. Now that I've written it out, I guess I wouldn't really change that much of our early years. Like everyone else has said, don't push, make sure that her eyes are sparkling, and be ready to drop everything for just fun little girl time.

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We are in 4th grade now with dd (almost 9) and still reading SOTW 3. I have had a tough time figuring out the whole homeschooling business and getting it all together these past few years. Also, as mentioned, I wasn't eager for dd to get to volume 4 too early. What I actually plan to do is either just read through or completely skip volume 4 for now and revisit it again in 8th grade. I do not think this delay will have any lasting consequence for her education - she already knows more history than I was ever taught. :o In the mean time, I plan to spend some time on geography and state history. We will return to the Ancients in the fall for 5th grade and begin to involve eager ds1 who will be 4 1/2 :)

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I really appreciate what I've read from you! I'm glad to have a head's up about SOTW4 coming too early - my dd is sensitive enough that it could be a real problem. I'm also glad for the reminder about symbolic math. I've always loved math myself (until I hit Calculus, that is!) and she enjoys math so far - but I really think that would be something to float on for awhile, until she's old enough to deal with symbols more easily. I can't see any problem with the reading or the history (as long as we take it slowly, stretching SOTW1 over 18 months or so) and as she's already interested in drawing and music, we'll keep those moving ahead. Basically, I just see that I'll need to be careful in Math, Spelling (if we even approach it), and keep history nice and easy. All this will mean that my other fear, that of keeping her at her books for way too long each day, is groundless - she'll have lots of time to play. Especially since no one cares about hours of schooling in MO until your dc is 7! :-) (Couldn't get the smilies to work!)Thank you all so much!Mama Anna("And we'll have fun, fun, fun . . .")

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I'm also glad for the reminder about symbolic math. I've always loved math myself (until I hit Calculus, that is!)

 

Yes, I switched dd from Saxon math at 4 1/2 because the 1st grade program began to move from manipulatives to drill. I wanted her to spend as much time as possible with manipulatives so that she truly understood the real quantities before she began memorizing facts. Miquon and cuisenaire rods worked very well for us at this time. I have recently added Singapore math for dd and I wish I had done so much sooner because it is working out beautifully. I just started Singapore EB for my ds (who will be 4 on Monday). I don't know yet how I like this program for a young child, but I can tell you that so far we have covered concepts like same/different, long/short, big/small, etc., He breezed through about a third of the book today. ;)

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We were in the same situation recently. Adding in one subject at a time has really worked out great for us. I used a few months of Galloping The Globe just after her 5th bday, to push SOTW back (just started that last month). We started biology & religion last fall, Miquon sometime over the summer, and I don't bother with a reading program now that she's fluent. I also started Latin last week, so we're almost up to a full WTM-1st grade program now, but it's taken us 6 months of gradual steps to get there. Every time I add something new, I wait a month or so before adding the next.

 

I try to combine where I can, to reduce some of the paperwork, because writing is still her biggest weakness. So I'll use spelling words or Latin vocab as her handwriting practice.

 

I'm also planning to take our time with SOTW 1 - it's meant for a 9-month "schoolyear" but we do year-round, so I'll stretch it over a 12 month year. That will still leave us "ahead" of her age grouping, and we can spend a little more time on the subjects that catch our interest.

 

HTH!

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I agree with Laura. I started SOTW "too early" with my almost 8yo. So we're doing lots of biographies this year instead of SOTW4. When Huck was 4 he was very eager to learn. He loved math (and still does). But, I did fell into the trap of pushing him too hard, I think. I don't think I was awfully hard, but I have had some esteem issues that are in part because of my early unrealistic expectations. The gals on this board have helped a lot in that regard. I've lightened up. We play lots.

My only advise would be to tread lightly and follow her lead.

HTH

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I agree with Laura. I started SOTW "too early" with my almost 8yo.
We started early, but with every intention of stretching it out. It works well for us.
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Boy, can I identify with these posts! Our son also began reading around his 4th birthday. (He's 13 now.) I wholeheartedly agree with the comments about not pushing too hard, but rather keeping learning keyed to your child's interest and pace at such a tender age. And definitely keep her supplied with neat books on a variety of interesting subjects! By the way, the public library is your friend. ;)

 

One thought on teaching spelling--you may or may not need to! I have never taught our son spelling, as he seemed to learn to spell (everything) when he learned to read. It is rare for me to ever correct his spelling, even now. One of our favorite jokes on him was when he was 4-5 and his grandma spelled a word in his presence so as to keep the question from him. He instantly repeated the word back to her, asking, "What about xxx?" On another occasion, he didn't know how to make a comma in his English workbook, so he spelled the word. :eek: Bottom line--teach spelling only if your child needs it.

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