WAS: English for 1st and 3rd grade (delayed, dyslexic) NOW: 6th grade

[busymama7]

I posted a similar thread last year. I am frustrated that I still can't find anything I like.

These are my 6th and 7th kids, all homeschooled. I have several wth dyslexia. My oldest two are in college but did not do well on the ACT and I am restructuring my schooling as a result.

I have math figured out and we are happy. I switched the 3 middle kids(these two plus my 6th grader) to CLE. It is everything I always wanted in a math program and I couldn't be more thrilled.

But English just has me so stumped. I used SWR to teach my oldest 5 to read and then we basically just read. Formal grammar was spotty. Most finished SWR for spelling but I never used the grammar or enrichment type exercises

We switched to AAR 18 months ago for these two and one is at the beginning of level 2 and the older is a day or two from finishing level 2. We are also almost done with AAS level 1 with both. I am happy enough with this program to continue. I have debated moving just to AAS and moving faster instead of using both programs. They are reading at about a late 1st grade level. We also read daily from the Pathway readers as I like that they are incremental.

My 6th grade daughter is using R and S spelling and I love it. That was a new addition last year and I will stick with it until she finished level 8. I realized that our more laid back, charlotte mason style language arts just left a lot of holes in my older kids education. When I see what she is doing in there and what she's learning I get frusterated with my anti workbook, anti schoolish stance that I used to have.

For my family having it all spelled out in easy to use daily lessons (both the rod and staff spelling and the CLE math) is really what I need. Teaching as it comes up it naturally means that not enough of it happened.

But I get totally frozen trying to settle in with something for English. I hated English in school. I hated stupid reading comprehension and vocabulary work and lit analysis. All of it. So I have shied away from making them so stuff I hated.

At least I'm recognizing my weakness, right? And really my kids are ok. Going to college and well adjusted happy young adults. But I need something easy to use for the rest of them and o just can't get it figured out.

I tried English lessons through literature this year. My sixth grade daughter loves the reading, hates the copy work and is fine with the grammar and does ok but I don't think it's enough instruction and review. Oh and we totally skip the dictation. So we aren't even really using it as designed. She's using level 4 by the way. I also bought level one for the two younger ones but it's just getting squeezed out of our day. We still aren't through the Beatrix potter stories, so only 20ish lessons in? I just don't really care for it. I tried to switch my older daughter but she protested saying that she loves it. But I really am ok giving it up and figuring out something for the younger two. I want something that includes reading comprehension as that has been a weak area on the act for several of my kids. I guess it just needs to be practiced.

Things I have tried and didn't like:

First language lessons
Rod and staff English
Growing with grammar
Analytical grammar (it was ok but we couldn't get through it. Just so much there and I think probably more than they need) I did like the Jr program just fine.


I really love CLE math and I keep looking at their language arts stuff but it seems like it would be overlap with AAR and AAS and eventually rod and staff spelling.

I also really struggle with any program that expects 180 days out of us. We have a music program/coop once a week and while we do do summer school, I don't really care for the programs that are set up for 5 days a week for 36 weeks. We just always feel behind. (Yes I know CLE is like that but with math it's different. For one thing we never stop doing math all year). It seems to take us a good 12 months to get through a 9 month year and I don't really want to be obligating us to lots of LA stuff in the summer. We do math and tons of reading in the summer. This is what appealed to me about ELTL but I am finally admitting that it's just not working. Ideally it would be a bit independent while I'm doing math and AAR with the other one or something that we would do together like AAS.

I'm also ok not adding anything else for these two but I would like to know that I have a plan and a program I can start at some point and just see us all the ways through to HS.

Oh I do really well with iew combined with writing about what we are studying so I don't really want composition. I don't actually teach writing until 5th grade at all. In the past I have just done copywork until then. I'd like something with more direct instruction about grammar and mechanics. The lessons part of ELTL was actually really perfect but all the reading is what is holding us up. We read A LOT already and we just can't get to the readings plus I don't want to read an aesops fable and a poem everyday. They actually don't even understand the aesops fables. They tend to just go over their heads. But I like the short instruction about a mechanics thing and then practicing it.

argh. I am so frustrated with this. I dont know why this is so hard.

Edited February 1, 2017 by busymama7

[Peaceseeker]

Sounds like you are mostly looking for grammar then, as you have writing, reading, and spelling covered? I think reading comprehension/lit analysis would be much later if you are still working on AAR?

 

Easy Grammar is a no frills, get it done grammar. Not as in depth as Analytical Grammar but easy to use and not overwhelming. Winston grammar might be another option.

[busymama7]

Sounds like you are mostly looking for grammar then, as you have writing, reading, and spelling covered? I think reading comprehension/lit analysis would be much later if you are still working on AAR?

 

Easy Grammar is a no frills, get it done grammar. Not as in depth as Analytical Grammar but easy to use and not overwhelming. Winston grammar might be another option.

Thanks I will look at that. I keep thinking I want something all in one.

 

I forgot I use pentime for handwriting.

 

Maybe all in one except literature.

 

What is good for reading comprehension? In also looking for my 6th grader not just the younger two.

[busymama7]

Ok I am looking at easy grammar and daily grams. They look very similar per the sample pages. Which one would I want?

 

Also, are they supposed to re copy the capitalization section without lines or just write the capital etter over the lower case when needed? I really like the look of this and it could be exactly what is missing in our English studies. I probably need to give up the all in one idea because I end up dropping stuff anyways and I know some things that work well already.

 

That leaves reading comprehension for the 6th grader and later on for the younger ones. Was it CLE that has a reading program that lots of kids really love the stories? Or was it another similar provider?

Edited January 31, 2017 by busymama7

[mamamoose]

I really like Memoria Press literature with the literature guides. It teaches some grammar as well in the first grade student guides. You can get the curriculum guide if you buy the entire literature package for a grade and it lays out the lessons for you. The literature is rich. My dyslexic 3rd grader is listening to the books on audio. My first grader is doing the Memoria Press reading and AAS for spelling, but she's not dyslexic. For grammar we are using First Language Lessons. Its quick and easy and my kids ask for it. They really like it.

[Peaceseeker]

For Easy Grammar I believe the Daily Grams are a review after you have done at least a year of grammar. Some people may use them concurrently or in place of the regular program but I think they were designed as a review.

 

I have handwriting resistant children, so for the section on capitalization I just had my child put the capital letter above the lowercase letter on words that needed to be capitalized. So if the sentence reads "there was a girl who was named avery" they would write a capital T over the lowercase t in the and a capital A over the lowercase a in avery.

 

Reading comprehension was oral narration and then notebooking/written narration in our family, so I don't have any curriculum suggestions for you there!

[Ellie]

Ok I am looking at easy grammar and daily grams. They look very similar per the sample pages. Which one would I want?

 

Also, are they supposed to re copy the capitalization section without lines or just write the capital etter over the lower case when needed? I really like the look of this and it could be exactly what is missing in our English studies. I probably need to give up the all in one idea because I end up dropping stuff anyways and I know some things that work well already.

 

That leaves reading comprehension for the 6th grader and later on for the younger ones. Was it CLE that has a reading program that lots of kids really love the stories? Or was it another similar provider?

 

The author says you can do both EG and DG simultaneously, but I disagree. Daily Grams is a review of Easy Grammar. I big pink puffy heart Easy Grammar. :-)

 

However, I don't believe that your 6yo and 8yo need to do grammar yet. I'd wait until each one is 9, or even 10, to do Easy Grammar. You could alternate Easy Grammar and Daily Grams: Easy Grammar one year, Daily Grams the next, until the child finishes Easy Grammar Plus. If you think it's really necessary, you could do one of the high school-level books.

 

There is no copying in Easy Grammar. I can't get the PDF samples on the Easy Grammar site to load, so I cannot see what you mean about capitalization. :-(  I don't remember my dc copying out anything from EG, though.

[busymama7]

The author says you can do both EG and DG simultaneously, but I disagree. Daily Grams is a review of Easy Grammar. I big pink puffy heart Easy Grammar. :-)

 

However, I don't believe that your 6yo and 8yo need to do grammar yet. I'd wait until each one is 9, or even 10, to do Easy Grammar. You could alternate Easy Grammar and Daily Grams: Easy Grammar one year, Daily Grams the next, until the child finishes Easy Grammar Plus. If you think it's really necessary, you could do one of the high school-level books.

 

There is no copying in Easy Grammar. I can't get the PDF samples on the Easy Grammar site to load, so I cannot see what you mean about capitalization. :-( I don't remember my dc copying out anything from EG, though.

So what level do you start with at 9 or 10? In the meantime should I just pick some simple copywork? Or maybe we will continue with the lesson part of ELTL for now. Thanks

[busymama7]

For Easy Grammar I believe the Daily Grams are a review after you have done at least a year of grammar. Some people may use them concurrently or in place of the regular program but I think they were designed as a review.

 

I have handwriting resistant children, so for the section on capitalization I just had my child put the capital letter above the lowercase letter on words that needed to be capitalized. So if the sentence reads "there was a girl who was named avery" they would write a capital T over the lowercase t in the and a capital A over the lowercase a in avery.

 

Reading comprehension was oral narration and then notebooking/written narration in our family, so I don't have any curriculum suggestions for you there!

It has been in our house too but I suddenly have a 16 year old who is bombing practice act especially in English and reading and I feel a need to change things. His whole future is hinging on this stupid test that I have refused to teach to all these years and now I'm wanting to change the way I'm teaching the younger ones. He is dyslexic as is the 8 year old and probably my 4 year old (and my 14 year old but he is much less severe and I think I'm ok with a plan for him). I feel like I need a much more school like approach to english than I've taken before. Thank you for talking this over with me :) Edited January 31, 2017 by busymama7

[Ellie]

So what level do you start with at 9 or 10? In the meantime should I just pick some simple copywork? Or maybe we will continue with the lesson part of ELTL for now. Thanks

 

If their reading ability is good, I'd start with the fifth grade book. So, EG 5, then DG, then EG Plus, then DG, the end. 

[MerryAtHope]

But I get totally frozen trying to settle in with something for English. I hated English in school. I hated stupid reading comprehension and vocabulary work and lit analysis. All of it. So I have shied away from making them so stuff I hated.

 

For your kids using AAR, I actually wouldn't add a general "English" course. AAR already covers comprehension and vocabulary, and it includes things like literary analysis for comprehension (for example, making predictions and inferences, comparing and contrasting main characters and stories, discussing the main conflict and character transformation), as well as literary terms (hyperbole, simile, point of view, and more), reading reference materials, reading with expression, English words with Greek, French, Spanish, and Italian influences, morphology, and much more.

 

When they are in AAR 2 or higher, add in spelling, and then when they are ready, add in writing or grammar. Here's an article about planning language arts.

 

I found Essentials in Writing worked well for my older, struggling writers, so that's one you might consider when your kids are ready for writing. Easy Grammar worked pretty well for grammar here.

 

After they are done with AAR and are "reading to learn," then you can consider whether you want to add on more lit. analysis, or wait until junior high or high school. Mainly I would read good books and discuss them with your students--what do they like, what don't they like, what did they think about the character who did X, would they have made the same choice? and so on. 

 

For vocabulary, do lots of reading aloud. Here's a good article on How to Build Your Child's Vocabulary.

[busymama7]

For your kids using AAR, I actually wouldn't add a general "English" course. AAR already covers comprehension and vocabulary, and it includes things like literary analysis for comprehension (for example, making predictions and inferences, comparing and contrasting main characters and stories, discussing the main conflict and character transformation), as well as literary terms (hyperbole, simile, point of view, and more), reading reference materials, reading with expression, English words with Greek, French, Spanish, and Italian influences, morphology, and much more.

 

When they are in AAR 2 or higher, add in spelling, and then when they are ready, add in writing or grammar. Here's an article about planning language arts.

 

I found Essentials in Writing worked well for my older, struggling writers, so that's one you might consider when your kids are ready for writing. Easy Grammar worked pretty well for grammar here.

 

After they are done with AAR and are "reading to learn," then you can consider whether you want to add on more lit. analysis, or wait until junior high or high school. Mainly I would read good books and discuss them with your students--what do they like, what don't they like, what did they think about the character who did X, would they have made the same choice? and so on.

 

For vocabulary, do lots of reading aloud. Here's a good article on How to Build Your Child's Vocabulary.

Ok so we read aloud all day long. I mean an average of 2-3 hours, spread out. This is something I believe in very very strongly. My kids read a lot and read a fair amount of classics. (My older ones did AO as written for a couple years). We do discussions and such. It hasn't been enough. What you are describing here is what I thought would work. It hasn't. I have a 16 year old who is smart and highly accomplished in many areas just get a 14 on the act reading section. This type of education didn't turn out kids who could take those tests (my older two got low 20s composite)

 

I wish it was different but it hasn't been. I have to teach the kids I have and apparently I can have voracious readers who still need direct reading comp practice and grammar and vocabulary work etc.

 

I also wish it didn't matter. But the colleges my teens are looking at only want act score. the end. No transcript or grades. Only the test score.

 

So instead of cramming and trying to fix this in their teen years, I'd rather figure out a system that we can do it small bite size pieces as they grow and have it not be a big deal. Have them used to the types of questions and such they will see.

 

The other issue is that I am much better when what we do is very quantifiable. I still have two toddlers and every day is just so packed full. If I see them progressing thorough a systematic program (like we do for math) then I will know I am not leaving any gaping holes.

 

I can piece it together maybe if I have to. I just keep hoping I will find the perfect English/LA program to just plug along through every year. I was hoping eltl would be it but it isn't. We actually do really really well with one room school house type curriculums (since that's basically what I'm running 😉) but I just can't settle on one that I think will work for everything.

 

I want to take these two through all of aar and continue with aas (they are just starting level 2). I am happy here. And if those two programs are ok for this age then I can do that. But I would like to know where I'm going and when. So after AAR 4 and maybe I will get through aas 7 but I may wish to switch to R and S spelling sooner than that. Or another curriculum that has it integrated. And within two years would be ideal as I then I would be teaching my now 4 year old whom I also suspect is dyslexic.

 

And I'm still not happy with my 6th grader she's using eltl 4 but it's taking a long time each day, I don't love the writing, don't use the dictation and i don't feel the grammar has quite enough instruction and practice. It's too wordy. I want something simple and to the point like easy grammar. That looks good. But I'm still afraid that if I piece i together I will not cover what they need.

ETA: I can't get the vocabulary link to work

Also, one thing that holds me back from going full force with something like CLE language arts is the amount of checking/grading. I don't know if I could keep up on that for every child and every subject. I mean I do for math, but it it was more? I'm not sure

Edited February 1, 2017 by busymama7

[TheReader]

Not a grammar solution, but the Wordly Wise books are great for vocab and reading comprehension of the sort you want. Then starting in high school, or maybe 8th grade, start working through ACT prep books and SAT prep books just as extra.

[busymama7]

Not a grammar solution, but the Wordly Wise books are great for vocab and reading comprehension of the sort you want. Then starting in high school, or maybe 8th grade, start working through ACT prep books and SAT prep books just as extra.

 

 

I spent some time at their website.  I like what I see for the most part.  I am wondering about the open ended reading comprehension questions.  Does that provide the same testing prep as multiple choice, choose the best answer type questions?

 

I am not happy about worrying so much about teaching to a test but this is where I am at, at this point.  My kids can read and remember and tell back to me in great detail what they read, either verbally or in writing.  That is not the same skill, apparently, as the tests test for.

[TheReader]

I spent some time at their website.  I like what I see for the most part.  I am wondering about the open ended reading comprehension questions.  Does that provide the same testing prep as multiple choice, choose the best answer type questions?

 

I am not happy about worrying so much about teaching to a test but this is where I am at, at this point.  My kids can read and remember and tell back to me in great detail what they read, either verbally or in writing.  That is not the same skill, apparently, as the tests test for.

 

Hmm, I was thinking they had some multiple choice type of questions in there, too. I *think* they would get the same sort of practice, since they'd need to read the text to find specific information (vs just retelling, which is great, but isn't working on how to find a specific answer, to a specific question, within the text). It *should* give enough of a foundation that if you then started ACT/SAT prep books in early high school, that should be a good bridge to switching to that sort of question. 

 

Another thing to consider is that if your son who got the low score is dyslexic, it could have just been a time issue more than an "I can't do this kind of problem" issue. It's a LOT of reading, in a short amount of time, so learning to read the questions, skim the text for the answer, and mark the answer vs. read the whole thing in depth, then look at the answers, then go back and check....it's a shift from how we normally encourage our kids to do things, ya know? But for a dyslexic especially (my youngest is severely dyslexic), there just isn't time to do that. They *have* to learn to skim, and even then, if his dyslexia is severe enough, you may need to petition for extra time on the test (which I've heard can be hard to get for kids without a history of accommodations on other tests). 

 

Also don't forget to check on each test; one of them scores *worse* for wrong answers than blank answers (I forget which), whereas the other doesn't, so guessing is encouraged. I think it's SAT that scores worse, and ACT that says to guess, but I always double check before they take it (well, did/will do so). 

 

Still, I do think the vocab help will be beneficial, and the comprehension at least gets them thinking about the text in a specific way. 

[Peaceseeker]

How about Latin, which teaches both grammar and vocabulary?

 

You might also want to consider cross posting this on the learning challenges board. There may be some resources for reading comprehension other parents of dyslexic children could recommend on the learning challenges board if you cross post there.

Edited February 3, 2017 by CaliforniaDreaming

[busymama7]

I wish I could fit Latin in. It makes me hyperventilate just thinking about it. We do do roots but that's all.

 

I do have a thread on the learning challenges board and yes a big part of my sons score is then dyslexia. But it's not actually only a time thing. He just struggles with comprehension all together.

 

My older two have no signs of dyslexia. They read early and fast and became voracious readers. We did homeschooling as I thought was best but they still only got low 20s on the ACT.

 

After all these years and this much experience I am certain that we are looking at a lack of the right kind of instruction. I need to find new methods and for me, the most succinct, clear methods are best. Honestly, I love workbooks. There I said it. All the other ways we've tried that sound so good, just don't get the kind of results I'm looking for. I just need the right workbook type approach for English and I haven't found it yet.

[MerryAtHope]

Well, the article I linked explained it better than I did, but in reading aloud, you do want to include direct vocabulary instruction as well--it's not all "indirect" or "natural." We would stop to talk about unknown words and expressions (that I identified or that my kids asked about), explain them, restate them, look them up together etc..., and challenge our kids to try to use the new word in a conversation that day (and lots of praise when they did). Direct instruction can also include more formal things (I actually used the upper levels in AAS to work on vocabulary along with spelling--though that might not be as necessary for a student who has had the vocabulary instruction from AAR. AAS 7 includes an intro to Latin roots and Greek word parts, and that's a base you can build on etc...) I'm not anti-workbook, just trying to say--make sure you're making the most of what you are already doing. Since you are covering spelling, vocabulary, comprehension etc... in what you are doing, add on writing and grammar as they are able, and then after AAR, look at other resources that would include vocab and comprehension if your kids would benefit from direct instruction there.

 

I hear you on checking it all though! 

 

With the ACT, I hear you as well. Did your older ones do prep classes? I found that study prep for the ACT can raise scores significantly. That's not the whole picture of course, and I think you're wise to see that there are gaps you want to make sure that you fill in now, but I have seen a prep course be able to boost scores from teens to 20's, so it's also possible that not everything is "gaps," and that some is knowing how to take the test. That too needs to be taught, even though it seems "obvious" or "natural." Sometimes part of the puzzle is undiagnosed learning disabilities, and accommodations like additional time can make a big difference. 

 

I hope you find things that will help your kids!

[Heathermomster]

My DS is a 2e dyslexic/dysgraphic and scored very well on the ACT after walking in cold with no test prep because the exam was mandatory for 10th grade. Please don't ask...

 

We used Winston Grammar and Daily Grams. DS studied Latin and Greek roots for a couple of years and is kind of a whiz bang with vocab. He studied vocab over at freerice.com for years and used Quizlet with the 500 SAT vocab word list. A couple years of IEW thematic units with an O-G and IEW certified tutor helped his punctuation usage considerably. Dyslexics can score very well on the ACT language portions of the test.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Heathermomster

[OneStepAtATime]

You've had some great suggestions.  Since you specifically wished for a program that was not set up for 5 day a week lessons, I wanted to mention that Fix-It Grammar (the new one) is only 15 min a day, 4 days a week and my dyslexic daughter has done very well with that program.

[busymama7]

For your kids using AAR, I actually wouldn't add a general "English" course. AAR already covers comprehension and vocabulary, and it includes things like literary analysis for comprehension (for example, making predictions and inferences, comparing and contrasting main characters and stories, discussing the main conflict and character transformation), as well as literary terms (hyperbole, simile, point of view, and more), reading reference materials, reading with expression, English words with Greek, French, Spanish, and Italian influences, morphology, and much more.

 

When they are in AAR 2 or higher, add in spelling, and then when they are ready, add in writing or grammar. Here's an article about planning language arts.

 

I found Essentials in Writing worked well for my older, struggling writers, so that's one you might consider when your kids are ready for writing. Easy Grammar worked pretty well for grammar here.

 

After they are done with AAR and are "reading to learn," then you can consider whether you want to add on more lit. analysis, or wait until junior high or high school. Mainly I would read good books and discuss them with your students--what do they like, what don't they like, what did they think about the character who did X, would they have made the same choice? and so on. 

 

For vocabulary, do lots of reading aloud. Here's a good article on How to Build Your Child's Vocabulary.

 

 

I finally got to read this article.  It is good.  Thank you! 

 

I really struggle with these types of approaches as I am just so vastly outnumbered.  We do read aloud a lot.  And we will sometimes stop and talk about words, but not usually.  I can totally relate to hating the way vocab was taught in school.  It is why I have avoided school like approaches all this time. But I still feel like I'm missing things and my kids and I need more structure and accountability. 

 

Does Marie have suggestions as to what to use after AAR4?  I really do love both her programs.  They provide the structure and accountability we need. 

[MerryAtHope]

Yes, she has an article about what's after AAR here.

 

For more vocabulary resources, she likes:

• For grade school on up: Bringing Words to Life: Robust Vocabulary Instruction by Isabel Beck
• For high school level: Word Power Made Easy by Norman Lewis

And then adding in a Greek/Latin roots program if you want to work more on those. There are a number of programs out there--some you could consider:

• The Book of Roots and Roots of English (Memoria Press)
• English from the Roots Up (Literacy Unlimited)
• Greek and Latin Roots, and More Greek and Latin Roots (Creative Teaching Press)
• Rummy Roots and More Roots (games)
• Vocabulary from Classical Roots (Educators Publishing Service)
• Vocabulary Packets: Greek and Latin Roots (Scholastic)
• Vocabulary Vine, and Science Roots (Hasseler)
• Word Roots (The Critical Thinking Company) 

HTH some!