obsidian Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/29/512373761/two-people-arrested-following-multiple-shooting-deaths-at-quebec-city-mosque Multiple dead and wounded. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Absolutely horrible and heartbreaking. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaillardia Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 That is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 😢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 They identified the shooters as two university students at Laval and they come from Morrocco. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saffron Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 93% of Moroccans are religious, and 98.7% of those are Muslim according to Wikipedia. I wonder what their motive was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'm horrified, sad, and feeling a tiny bit of country-shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 They identified the shooters as two university students at Laval and they come from Morrocco. This hasn't been officially confirmed by the police or the university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 One witness said that they yelled Alahu Ahkbar. That was reported by the CBC. As of this time, we don't know whether it was anti-Islamic nuts who screamed it in jest, some kind of Shia-Sunni terrorism (I don't know which brand of Islam this Mosque was), some adherents of ISIS or one of the other terrorist groups who didn't think these people in the Mosque were 'Muslim" enough for their sick minds, some sickos for some other reason. All I know is that I condemn the attack and the killing of innocent people. Praying for the wounded and the families of the dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 "One of two gunmen who shouted 'Allahu akbar!' as they opened fire at a mosque in Quebec City was of Moroccan origin" the story is on this URL: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/30/suspect-in-quebec-mosque-terror-attack-was-moroccan-origin-report-shows.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 here's a canadian link to the story that gives the names of the two arrested. there are more articles if you speak french . . http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 One witness said that they yelled Alahu Ahkbar. That was reported by the CBC. As of this time, we don't know whether it was anti-Islamic nuts who screamed it in jest, some kind of Shia-Sunni terrorism (I don't know which brand of Islam this Mosque was), some adherents of ISIS or one of the other terrorist groups who didn't think these people in the Mosque were 'Muslim" enough for their sick minds, some sickos for some other reason. All I know is that I condemn the attack and the killing of innocent people. Praying for the wounded and the families of the dead. or even a former member of the mosque who was angry about something and getting his revenge. (it happens, similar to workplace shootings.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 here's a canadian link to the story that gives the names of the two arrested. there are more articles if you speak french . . http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686 I think some names were originally reported in error from a fake Reuters account on Twitter. Just FYI, I'm not sure if they've been confirmed since then or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Canada just released a statement saying that any immigrants that are turned away by America will be taken in by Canada. And then this happens. It's just all so sad that terrorism exists. It defies all reason and no negotiation will stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 THe names reported on DailyBeast were wrong and I hope those people sue for slander. Totally irresponsible since they took the names from a parody Reuters site (not the real one). The CBC has released the names (and not the names on the fake DailyBeast account) http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686. One name seems to be an Arabic name and the other seems to be a French sounding name. While the police are not saying yet what the motive was, the Premier has said it is being treated as a terrorist event. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Horrifying. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think some names were originally reported in error from a fake Reuters account on Twitter. Just FYI, I'm not sure if they've been confirmed since then or not. are you suggesting the cbc (canadian broadcasting corporation) was punked and publishing "fake" news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 How horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The CBC has the correct names. They were not punked. The Daily Beast was punked and it was from a parody Reuters site. I am not familiar with it. The CBC got their information from a police briefing on the matter. The names they have published are correct. One Arabic sounding name and one French sounding name. Even if this is terrorism like the Premier of Canada is calling it, what kind of terrorism it is should be important. Are these self radicalized, is it a organized group, what motivations led them to it, etc. As I said on a previous post, violence against Muslim sites have varied from Hindu extremists, Muslims retaliating for other Muslim violence, extremists who are nationalists of some kind, recognized terrorist groups against more moderate or liberal Muslims, and of course it could be some personal beef. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 MOre changes to the news. Now the CBC has deleted the names they posted because the police now say one of the people was the shooter and the other was a witness. Unknown which one is the shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Most acts of terror are by Muslims against other Muslims, for what it's worth. Usually sect against sect regionally, or terrorists against more moderate believers. This only surprises me in that we don't see more of it in the west because it is the bulk of terror around the globe. Other faiths are certainly persecuted, but the bulk of lives lost are Muslim lives. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 "Muslim sounding name" was a witness. French sounding name is suspect >:-( http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/14495374 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 No, we don't know yet. Huffington Post is reporting something from a source called TVA. Never heard of that source and when you look up TVA on Google all you get is Tennessee Valley Authority. While they do news releases, they wouldn't be doing that. The police have not released the name, motivation, or anything besides that one suspect is being held and questioned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) This one brings tears to my eyes today. For some reason it hits me harder, maybe because Canada's prime minister made such a kind statement about welcoming refugees just the other day. Umsami, or anyone else who knows, there's a tiny Muslim community center in my town. Would it be ok to bring some packaged cookies over, just to say they have my support and are welcome in this town? I looked up the Halal types online, and will be careful to select something appropriate. (Also, wow, I can't believe how many foods use alcohol in flavorings. How complicated that life must be.) Edited January 30, 2017 by elroisees 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 This one brings tears to my eyes today. For some reason it hits me harder, maybe because Canada's prime minister made such a kind statement about welcoming refugees just the other day. Umsami, or anyone else who knows, there's a tiny Muslim community center in my town. Would it be ok to bring some packaged cookies over, just to say they have my support and are welcome in this town? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) The Moroccan initially detained was a witness and 911 caller. The terrorist's name is Alexandre Bissonnette. He has been charged with murder. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/multiple-deaths-injuries-mosque-shooting-quebec-city-canada-n713976 http://time.com/4654434/alexandre-bissonnette-quebec-mosque-shooting-donald-trump-marie-le-pen/?xid=time_socialflow_facebook Edited January 31, 2017 by regentrude 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Most acts of terror are by Muslims against other Muslims, for what it's worth. Usually sect against sect regionally, or terrorists against more moderate believers. Only this time, it wasn't. This terrorist was a white Canadian nationalist and anti-immigrant person. Edited January 31, 2017 by regentrude 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Only this time, it wasn't. This terrorist was a white Canadian nationalist and anti-immigrant person. It does look like that now. But my point was that it wouldn't be unprecendented to be a more extreme or violent Muslim using violence against a minority Islamic sect, a more liberal mosque, etc. I think there is this idea that terrorists only target white westerners and that's just not true. The report has been corrected from the one I was seeing but the overall point still stands. A lot of the blanket fear of Muslims seems to ignore that many of them are the ones suffering terror and in higher prevalence than all the western terror attacks combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaVT Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 This one brings tears to my eyes today. For some reason it hits me harder, maybe because Canada's prime minister made such a kind statement about welcoming refugees just the other day. Umsami, or anyone else who knows, there's a tiny Muslim community center in my town. Would it be ok to bring some packaged cookies over, just to say they have my support and are welcome in this town? I looked up the Halal types online, and will be careful to select something appropriate. (Also, wow, I can't believe how many foods use alcohol in flavorings. How complicated that life must be.) The news had me in tears for a good while last night - I just can't wrap my head around violence like this. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealp2009 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Horrifying and so so sad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsidian Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Only this time, it wasn't. This terrorist was a white Canadian nationalist and anti-immigrant person. :crying: Another Dylan Roof case, just a different target. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 It does look like that now. But my point was that it wouldn't be unprecendented to be a more extreme or violent Muslim using violence against a minority Islamic sect, a more liberal mosque, etc. I think there is this idea that terrorists only target white westerners and that's just not true. The report has been corrected from the one I was seeing but the overall point still stands. A lot of the blanket fear of Muslims seems to ignore that many of them are the ones suffering terror and in higher prevalence than all the western terror attacks combined. I think another point that might be a better focus is that a lot of blanket fear of Muslims is created unnecessarily, built on lies and fear of outsiders, and when people value belief over facts there are some horrifying real-world applications. I hope everyone makes the effort to check their beliefs against reality with a little more care. Beliefs can be replaced, even with better ones. Fathers cannot. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Attacks in Muslim countries, yes are Muslim against Muslim. Terrorist attacks committed by Muslim Terrorist organizations target mainly Muslims, yes. But sadly, when we get out of a Muslim countries, then the attacks are almost always hate crimes committed by non-Muslims. I have some personal stuff going on right now, and just saw this an hour or so ago. Makes my heart hurt. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Maybe the speculating re Muslim perp can be removed from this thread now that they are know to be false ? But "Muslim on Muslim" is the new "Black on Black" for all the hip young white supremacists! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 But "Muslim on Muslim" is the new "Black on Black" for all the hip young white supremacists! That's funny, because the very first time I heard of "Muslim on Muslim" was from our own umsami. Pretty sure she's not a hip young white supremacist. As a matter of fact, I think she does a great job educating people on Muslim issues that largely get ignored otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Attacks in Muslim countries, yes are Muslim against Muslim. Terrorist attacks committed by Muslim Terrorist organizations target mainly Muslims, yes. But sadly, when we get out of a Muslim countries, then the attacks are almost always hate crimes committed by non-Muslims. I have some personal stuff going on right now, and just saw this an hour or so ago. Makes my heart hurt. I agree completely. It bugs me when someone acts as though Muslims aren't victims of terror or violence or it's rare - that was my point. It's easier to ignore when one makes it an us vs them thing instead of recognizing that the roots of strife are broad and most Muslims are *much* more likely to be victims than perpetrators of any violence. Have they rules this a hate crime yet? I wonder if it was random in terms of the target (the mosque in general) or they were aiming for a specific individual. That might make a difference in the severity of the sentencing with regard to intent. Bibiche, I don't understand your comment at all. What the heck? Edited January 31, 2017 by Arctic Mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I agree completely. It bugs me when someone acts as though Muslims aren't victims of terror or violence or it's rare - that was my point. It's easier to ignore when one makes it an us vs them thing instead of recognizing that the roots of strife are broad and most Muslims are *much* more likely to be victims than perpetrators of any violence. Have they rules this a hate crime yet? I wonder if it was random in terms of the target (the mosque in general) or they were aiming for a specific individual. That might make a difference in the severity of the sentencing with regard to intent. He was a nationalist who was vocally anti-Islam: Mr. Bissonnette was well known to people who monitor far-right groups in Quebec, where he frequently commented on sites speaking about immigration and Islam. He was a particularly vocal supporter of Marine Le Pen, leader of France’s far right, when she visited the city last year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 If he is well known for this or has prior offenses and it wasn't some personal grudge that escalated that might help with stiffer sentence against him - which would be the best news from an awful situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) If he is well known for this or has prior offenses and it wasn't some personal grudge that escalated that might help with stiffer sentence against him - which would be the best news from an awful situation. Do you really think this might have been a personal grudge? Like, a grudge against a member there, and he went to shoot him in the middle of prayer service, and then just kept going? I came back to add, I just reread this and I'm afraid it might sound sarcastic, like I'm baiting you into saying he argued with a guy outside, slipped on the ice, fell inside the door, and just happened to shoot dozens of praying Muslims. But honest, that's not what I mean! I'm just curious because a grudge scenario literally never would have entered my mind. I can't *not* see it as an act of aggression against the most feared group in North America, and especially this week. So the idea of something entirely unrelated confused me. edited to add second paragraph Edited January 31, 2017 by Charlie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Well it's the same way one can consider Fort Hood workplace violence. Most shootings have a personal element to them in the targeting by statistics alone, and in the lack of information it was possible it wasnt terrorism or a hate crime but something else motivating the shooting. With the newer information out I think the police have excluded that possibility already. But the fact remains most gun violence isn't random against strangers, which is where my musing was coming from. Make more sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yeah, if this were reversed, I don't think people would be saying it might be a personal grudge. Besides that, the PM (who isn't a proponent of "alternate facts") has said it was a terroristic attack against Muslims. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yeah, if this were reversed, I don't think people would be saying it might be a personal grudge. Besides that, the PM (who isn't a proponent of "alternate facts") has said it was a terroristic attack against Muslims. I'm not sure that's accurate - even just considering San Bernardino, the initial theories floated to counter the terrorism assumption was that the husband was being picked on at work for being Muslim. Orlando - that the shooter was killing gays retaliatorily for his own bad experiences/denial over being gay and not because of religion. With more than one church shooting they look at whether the individual was a member of the congregation or in counseling with the pastors - that's initial information gathering. I'm not disagreeing with the newer data that's come out at all, I just didn't want to assume that some guy with a Muslim name was committing an act of terror before the facts were in. And as is, it wasn't a Muslim at all - hence why I think waiting to make judgments is wise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Well it's the same way one can consider Fort Hood workplace violence. Most shootings have a personal element to them in the targeting by statistics alone, and in the lack of information it was possible it wasnt terrorism or a hate crime but something else motivating the shooting. With the newer information out I think the police have excluded that possibility already. But the fact remains most gun violence isn't random against strangers, which is where my musing was coming from. Make more sense? When you said personal grudge, I thought, "Sam the butcher must have really pissed him off and he wasn't having any more of that, so he followed him to the Mosque where he was praying with his community." That seemed so unlikely given the context we did know at the time, that I was having trouble understanding what you meant. So thanks for explaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 When you said personal grudge, I thought, "Sam the butcher must have really pissed him off and he wasn't having any more of that, so he followed him to the Mosque where he was praying with his community." That seemed so unlikely given the context we did know at the time, that I was having trouble understanding what you meant. So thanks for explaining. Ah, gotcha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debinindy Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Maybe the speculating re Muslim perp can be removed from this thread now that they are know to be false ? This would be a considerate thing to do. It also would have been considerate to do that on the thread that proclaimed the Fort Lauderdale shooter as a Christian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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