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Online German - how is it going this year? (Updates?)


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Adding this updated info here on this older thread in case anyone comes in here looking for online German class options:

 

Frau Faith Cruz (who previously taught with Landry Academy before it closed) will be teaching German with both HSLDA Online Academy and Big River Academy for 2017-18.

 

After reading lots of feedback here on the forum and also via PM, we've decided to enroll DS in Frau Cruz's German 1 class at HSLDA Online Academy, which meets on Mondays. (Her Big River class on Thursdays just didn't fit our schedule.)

 

So glad to have finally reached a decision. Many thanks to all who helped.

Edited by TarynB
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DS is doing German through OSU and really enjoying it.  (http://germanonline.okstate.edu/)

 

We have heard some really good things about OSU German. My only concern which others have mentioned would be the opportunity to practice speaking. I guess we could get outside tutoring for that aspect. Then it begs the question, why not select a course which offers both since they are both needed?

 

The one caveat is that our middle dd is in 8th grade with no prior foreign language exposure. So this would be more like a primer to high school language. Though I've heard many middle schoolers actually start high school level language. So I guess we could go that route as well. 

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Adding this updated info here on this older thread in case anyone comes in here looking for online German class options:

 

Frau Faith Cruz will be teaching German with both HSLDA Online Academy and Big River Academy for 2017-18.

 

After reading lots of feedback here on the forum and also via PM, we've decided to enroll DS in Frau Cruz's German 1 class at HSLDA Online Academy, which meets on Mondays. (Her Big River class on Thursdays just didn't fit our schedule.)

 

So glad to have finally reached a decision. Many thanks to all who helped.

 

Hi Taryn,

 

We are still deciding on German for a middle dd. I was all set to go with OSU until reading this thread. And then your post got me thinking further. I had never heard of Big River Academy. It looking into their course, it is very affordable similar to OSU. The one major advantage is it is live. So I guess I am rethinking things a bit. I'll have to see if they still have openings since many classes seemed be filled up at least with other providers.

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Hi Taryn,

 

We are still deciding on German for a middle dd. I was all set to go with OSU until reading this thread. And then your post got me thinking further. I had never heard of Big River Academy. It looking into their course, it is very affordable similar to OSU. The one major advantage is it is live. So I guess I am rethinking things a bit. I'll have to see if they still have openings since many classes seemed be filled up at least with other providers.

 

Yes, it is hard to decide. And German classes can be harder to find than some other languages. Big River Academy is one of the new online schools that was born out of the Landry closure. And Frau Cruz is one of the instructors who taught German previously at Landry.

 

Good luck with your decision!

 

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I wanted to add some comments about OSU German Online.  My kids did all of German 1 and about half of German 2.  A couple lessons we learned the hard way.

 

Look over your student's homework assignments. Mine frequently reported that they were done with the assignments, when they had skipped several sections or misunderstood the directions.  They also tended to write very brief responses, rather than the full sentences that were expected.  The homework is all for the benefit of the student's learning and is not collected and corrected.  I should have stayed on top of this better.

 

There was also a schedule of activities for the coach/supervising teacher to do with the student.  I did not stay up with doing these, and as a result my kids did not get all of the vocabulary practice that was programmed.  I can't remember if making flashcards was encouraged or not.  I would highly recommend that students make their own handwritten flashcards for practice.

 

There is a weekly tutoring session.  I would recommend Skype over a telephone conversation.  This is another area to monitor.  I found that because of the time of day we were calling, we tended to get several different conversation partners.  I didn't realize until I compared notes with a friend that it was possible to have a consistent speaking tutor.  I would advise trying to arrange this for consistency.  Also don't hesitate to interject yourself into this a bit.  It seemed that there were a couple canned questions, then they would ask if my kids had any questions about the lesson.  They would usually just say no, rather than pursuing areas they were weak on.  This improved when I made the call and said that I thought they needed to work on XYZ and if there was extra time left over to please practice German conversation.  

 

In short I'd attribute a lot of the lack of success my kids had in German Online to the fact that I wasn't up to snuff in my role as supervisor.  OSU does a pretty good job of teaching the German (although my preference would be for a more grammar directed program), but they won't push the student to complete more or catch up to the schedule if they are falling behind.  They expect that the supervising teacher or parent will fill that role.

 

 

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I wanted to add some comments about OSU German Online.  My kids did all of German 1 and about half of German 2.  A couple lessons we learned the hard way.

 

Look over your student's homework assignments. Mine frequently reported that they were done with the assignments, when they had skipped several sections or misunderstood the directions.  They also tended to write very brief responses, rather than the full sentences that were expected.  The homework is all for the benefit of the student's learning and is not collected and corrected.  I should have stayed on top of this better.

 

There was also a schedule of activities for the coach/supervising teacher to do with the student.  I did not stay up with doing these, and as a result my kids did not get all of the vocabulary practice that was programmed.  I can't remember if making flashcards was encouraged or not.  I would highly recommend that students make their own handwritten flashcards for practice.

 

There is a weekly tutoring session.  I would recommend Skype over a telephone conversation.  This is another area to monitor.  I found that because of the time of day we were calling, we tended to get several different conversation partners.  I didn't realize until I compared notes with a friend that it was possible to have a consistent speaking tutor.  I would advise trying to arrange this for consistency.  Also don't hesitate to interject yourself into this a bit.  It seemed that there were a couple canned questions, then they would ask if my kids had any questions about the lesson.  They would usually just say no, rather than pursuing areas they were weak on.  This improved when I made the call and said that I thought they needed to work on XYZ and if there was extra time left over to please practice German conversation.  

 

In short I'd attribute a lot of the lack of success my kids had in German Online to the fact that I wasn't up to snuff in my role as supervisor.  OSU does a pretty good job of teaching the German (although my preference would be for a more grammar directed program), but they won't push the student to complete more or catch up to the schedule if they are falling behind.  They expect that the supervising teacher or parent will fill that role.

 

Thanks, Sebastian. This is great to hear about the all the gotchas ahead of time if we go with OSU. Just a couple of follow-up questions. Did your kids continue with German or did they go with another language eventually? If you had the option to take a live class with more accountability in hindsight, do you think it may have been better? I'm still undecided. 

 

I just discovered a Young German I through CLRC that meets once a week live. That could be a better potential fit for our middle school girl(s). We've never taken courses from any of these providers before. So its a bit of a calculated risk/gamble in terms of finding a best fit.

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for my DS it depends on the week.  The book we use has 2 sections in a chapter.  So the first week of a chapter he does the tv portion for an hour(we do this on Sat).  He listens to audio files(10-25min depending on how many).  He does the text portion.  This can be 1 assignment or I've seen up to 5.  The Leestruck section is always an hour b/c he ends up needing to translate the entire thing to be able to answer the questions about it.  Then there is a workbook part that can be 3 sections but it's been more than 5 before. Again, there is always one section that isn't clear about what to answer and it takes longer to work on.  Once you finish it, you input it as an assessment online for a grade.  The text answers are given in class.  So this non test week I would say 15-45 min 4 days before the next class.   

 

On a test week he has all the normal work PLUS time to study for the test and take the test.  Those test weekends we spend more time at home so he can study.  I help quizzing him, so it's both of us working on German over the weekend.  Lots of discussion on the work to do simply b/c some of the vocabulary isn't known yet and we have to talk through what makes sense in some situations.  I'm way more involved than I had hoped to be.  I'm learning the material and after he does the work we talk about the work and discuss if anything doesn't make sense and such.  Him telling me about the work helps him understand it more ;-)  

 

So some days 15 min, other days over an hour.  It varies so much and that is hard on my DS.  He's not good working by a timer, so he has to work by spreading it out in what we think is balanced.  Sometimes it just isn't. 

 

This last part concerns me with Frau Cruz's once a week courses. This is especially a concern for our younger students who do not have the best study habits formed yet. Though the content looks great. Maybe it works better for those who are better jugglers of their time. Even for our oldest ds, time management is always a struggle. I really don't like the idea of spending a lot of time on weekends studying for any course. We typically like to get out on the weekends and do other family activities. This has been one our greatest challenges for our son, learning to balance out his high school academic life with other important things: work-life balance. It takes a lot intentionality, planning and discipline to 'not' spend a lot of time on the weekends studying.

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This last part concerns me with Frau Cruz's once a week courses. This is especially a concern for our younger students who do not have the best study habits formed yet. Though the content looks great. Maybe it works better for those who are better jugglers of their time. Even for our oldest ds, time management is always a struggle. I really don't like the idea of spending a lot of time on weekends studying for any course. We typically like to get out on the weekends and do other family activities. This has been one our greatest challenges for our son, learning to balance out his high school academic life with other important things: work-life balance. It takes a lot intentionality, planning and discipline to 'not' spend a lot of time on the weekends studying.

Ok by the end of the year DS managed better. I still had to point out why he needed to do some over the weekends but he wanted an A and pushed hard to get it. My helping remind him of deadlines had him in an A, when I stopped being involved his grade dropped dramatically. But he studied hard at the end to barely get an A.

 

He is with Frau Gleason at Excelsior next year. I expect similar format. Ds also joined the German club there.

 

I think some kids adjust to new and hard schedules easier than others. Ds took almost a full year to accept and do the work needed without me helping or reminding.

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Thanks, Sebastian. This is great to hear about the all the gotchas ahead of time if we go with OSU. Just a couple of follow-up questions. Did your kids continue with German or did they go with another language eventually? If you had the option to take a live class with more accountability in hindsight, do you think it may have been better? I'm still undecided. 

 

I just discovered a Young German I through CLRC that meets once a week live. That could be a better potential fit for our middle school girl(s). We've never taken courses from any of these providers before. So its a bit of a calculated risk/gamble in terms of finding a best fit.

 

My kids were taking both German and Latin (from Lukeion Project).  They much preferred the grammar oriented style of Lukeion, and responded well to the pressure of weekly classes and assignments.  I think OSU German Online could have been much more sucessful if it had been the only language they'd taken or if I'd been more dictatorial - at least at the beginning.

 

One son did 4 years of Latin, then went on to a year of college Mandarin.  So he actually had three different languages on his transcript.

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We never took OSU's German, but my dd did do two levels of OSU's Spanish (before they discontinued the program) and it sounds like a very similar setup.  While I was thrilled with the class at the time (there weren't many online options back then), we've been much happier with a live Spanish class partly because it offers so much more accountability and feedback.  Plus, it's much more fun.  OSU Spanish was completely self-paced and all learning was done independently.  Much of the work is graded by the computer.  I have found that while a computer component can be great for reinforcing or practicing skills (both of my students have had a computer component as part of their live online classes), it is not the best way to learn new material or get feedback on mistakes.  My dd's Spanish teacher has her do written exercises each week in addition to the computer assignments, which he then gives her very specific feedback on, though I guess not all live online classes may have that. My son's didn't have much of that, but at least he got to learn the new concepts through direct instruction from a teacher, which he really needed.  Not everyone is a self-learner, which is pretty much what OSU requires for success. Or, a very involved parent, which can get difficult if you don't know the language yourself. 

 

I do think most students that are serious about really learning to speak the language are still going to need more practice than what a once a week live class offers, though.

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Ok by the end of the year DS managed better. I still had to point out why he needed to do some over the weekends but he wanted an A and pushed hard to get it. My helping remind him of deadlines had him in an A, when I stopped being involved his grade dropped dramatically. But he studied hard at the end to barely get an A.

 

He is with Frau Gleason at Excelsior next year. I expect similar format. Ds also joined the German club there.

 

I think some kids adjust to new and hard schedules easier than others. Ds took almost a full year to accept and do the work needed without me helping or reminding.

 

Thank you for the update, Tess. I'm glad he's doing better now. At the same time I don't want to disregard your earlier struggles which were real at the time. I've also read other similar struggles with these courses. So I don't think it is necessarily a unique situation or one-off experience. It sounds more like a rigorous and demanding course even for students who typically do well in other subject areas. Its a fair warning for me not to take it too lightly or expect it to be easy or smooth sailing right out of the gate.

 

I have to ask myself a few questions when I count the cost for our kids who are too young to do so. Does it really need to be this hard for them? Maybe, maybe not. Is this really what we are looking for? Can learning a language be a bit easier, lower stress, incremental? I guess the answer to this question varies from program to program and teacher to teacher. I've heard above how WTMA wasn't as intense which is funny because for many other subjects they are, especially writing! For every type of course there are many levels of rigor which map to differing goals and expectations of teachers, administration and parents. I want to go in with the correct expectations before we sign up while also aligning the courses with our own objectives. In our case, I am not looking for the most intense thing out there. Something lighter is actually preferable.

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We never took OSU's German, but my dd did do two levels of OSU's Spanish (before they discontinued the program) and it sounds like a very similar setup.  While I was thrilled with the class at the time (there weren't many online options back then), we've been much happier with a live Spanish class partly because it offers so much more accountability and feedback.  Plus, it's much more fun.  OSU Spanish was completely self-paced and all learning was done independently.  Much of the work is graded by the computer.  I have found that while a computer component can be great for reinforcing or practicing skills (both of my students have had a computer component as part of their live online classes), it is not the best way to learn new material or get feedback on mistakes.  My dd's Spanish teacher has her do written exercises each week in addition to the computer assignments, which he then gives her very specific feedback on, though I guess not all live online classes may have that. My son's didn't have much of that, but at least he got to learn the new concepts through direct instruction from a teacher, which he really needed.  Not everyone is a self-learner, which is pretty much what OSU requires for success. Or, a very involved parent, which can get difficult if you don't know the language yourself. 

 

I do think most students that are serious about really learning to speak the language are still going to need more practice than what a once a week live class offers, though.

 

Thanks for this insight, OnMyOwn. It does sound very similar to their German program which I've researched and written to them about. I can also see the advantage of live online courses especially for a 'language' class. Yeah, I'm a bit concerned with the once a week jam it all (listening, speaking, quizzes, tests, cultural exercises, etc...) courses not actually being enough to learn a language.

 

Where is your son taking Spanish now? Do you supplement with outside tutoring, speaking, etc... for language or grammar practice?

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  • 1 month later...

My 10th grader has decided she wants to learn German.  (Why?  I have no idea other than it isn't French or Russian.   :lol:  My kids sure like to make sure I never get at all comfortable with homeschooling!!)

 

She will be an absolutely, positively true beginner.  She will also be taking Latin 3 (she ended last yr 1/2 way through 3), so she will be starting with a strong grammar base.  Anyway, I signed her up for OSU's online course.

 

I was wondering if anyone else's German 1 kids might like to form some sort of group chat or study group.  I am out of my league with German and this dd has a very different personality than her older sister.  I think an informal group might be something she would enjoy.  PM me if you think any of your kids might be interested.

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My 10th grader has decided she wants to learn German. (Why? I have no idea other than it isn't French or Russian. :lol: My kids sure like to make sure I never get at all comfortable with homeschooling!!)

 

She will be an absolutely, positively true beginner. She will also be taking Latin 3 (she ended last yr 1/2 way through 3), so she will be starting with a strong grammar base. Anyway, I signed her up for OSU's online course.

 

I was wondering if anyone else's German 1 kids might like to form some sort of group chat or study group. I am out of my league with German and this dd has a very different personality than her older sister. I think an informal group might be something she would enjoy. PM me if you think any of your kids might be interested.

 

I can ask dd if you have a lack of reactions (I can't PM through the boards), I like the idea!

But she is somewhere in the middle with German.

She has covered 2y of German now, should have A2 level, starts B1, but has never used German, so her output skills are probably lower then that.

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  • 4 months later...

Ok, I'll bite.

 

For all those that have taken a live online German class this year, how is it going?  I am looking for a live online interactive German I class for my rising 10th grader next year.

 

I ended up signing DD#1 up for German 1 through CLRC. Their last class this semester is tomorrow, so after one semester, here's my take:

- They don't seem to go very quickly through material. They are finishing up "Unit 3" and starting Unit 4. They won't get through the whole book (12 Units - should get through Unit 8).

- DD doesn't have very much homework. The teacher told me in an email that 30 minutes per day (10 min review vocab, 10 min studying for quiz/test, rest of the time on homework) on non-class days was the expectation. She spends 30 minutes twice per week, so a little less than what the teacher assumed.

- She seems to be learning the material pretty well in general based on how her homework, quizzes, and tests are marked. (Teacher doesn't seem to be a tough grader, but she marks everything that is wrong, so I can see what DD missed even if not much is taken off points-wise.)

- Teacher is a native speaker, so sometimes her grammar explanations are ... that of a native speaker & not someone who really understands the why of it.

- The audio files are pretty tough to understand - this is definitely something that DD needs to work on more - listening to German. The workbook exercises seem to be tougher than those in the textbook. DD says the instructions aren't always clear in the workbook.

 

She likes the teacher. The class this year only has eight kids in it. They do not speak on mic every class day. (Just FYI for those who are looking for a lot of practice speaking.) Class is twice per week for about an hour each time.

 

I am happy with the level of the class & the workload for what we were looking for.

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Ds is with Excelsior/Frau Gleason this year. It's live, weekly class. She introduces music, food, holiday traditions in the beginning of class. Uses Deutsch Aktell book. Input homework weekly. Tests every chapter(2 weeks to learn a chapter). Class goes over grammar with students practicing over microphone. She wants them to learn and enjoy the language. We just received a German Christmas card in the mail. There is a trip to Germany next year.

 

I know Frau Cruz still teaches but I can't remember both places. One is HSLDA online...but the other escapes me.

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Ok, I'll bite.

 

 

I ended up signing DD#1 up for German 1 through CLRC. Their last class this semester is tomorrow, so after one semester, here's my take:

- They don't seem to go very quickly through material. They are finishing up "Unit 3" and starting Unit 4. They won't get through the whole book (12 Units - should get through Unit 8).

- DD doesn't have very much homework. The teacher told me in an email that 30 minutes per day (10 min review vocab, 10 min studying for quiz/test, rest of the time on homework) on non-class days was the expectation. She spends 30 minutes twice per week, so a little less than what the teacher assumed.

- She seems to be learning the material pretty well in general based on how her homework, quizzes, and tests are marked. (Teacher doesn't seem to be a tough grader, but she marks everything that is wrong, so I can see what DD missed even if not much is taken off points-wise.)

- Teacher is a native speaker, so sometimes her grammar explanations are ... that of a native speaker & not someone who really understands the why of it.

- The audio files are pretty tough to understand - this is definitely something that DD needs to work on more - listening to German. The workbook exercises seem to be tougher than those in the textbook. DD says the instructions aren't always clear in the workbook.

 

She likes the teacher. The class this year only has eight kids in it. They do not speak on mic every class day. (Just FYI for those who are looking for a lot of practice speaking.) Class is twice per week for about an hour each time.

 

I am happy with the level of the class & the workload for what we were looking for.

I am glad to know we aren’t the only ones suffering through the audio exercises. 😂 they are brutal mostly due to speed!

 

We feel exactly the same way about the class. It’s perfect for what we were looking for.

 

However, I really wish she would use a different textbook that has a lot of dialogues to listen and study, not just audio exercises without any text. I detest the Holt book. It’s disjointed. We do like the grammar workbook. We also like the teacher and small class size.

Although I was worried about he pace of the class being too slow, the recent discussion on this board pointed out that apparently it’s a rare event to cover the entire book during the school year, so I am not worried all that much any more.

Again, we don’t think you can become fluent by working through Holt, but if you need foundation, you need to start somewhere. This class gets you started and gives you foundation. We are most likely going to take German 2 next year with them.

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8Fill, 

 

How much practice speaking does your child get with OSU?  It is an asynchonous class, right so, no live online interaction with the class?  But there is a once weekly Skype session with an instructor?  Do you pick a day  and time for that?  How long is that?  30 minutes?  How are the lessons and homework set up?  

 

Thank you for your help.

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Tess in the Burbs,

 

The Excelsior class with Frau Gleason sounds interesting and he class time next year works for us if they keep it the same.  How rigorous would you say the work is?  I am looking for something very doable, since ds will have plenty of other hard work to do.  

 

Thanks!

 

bluebonnetgirl

 

I have a boy who likes German but not hard work.  This class does have significant homework.  This week they are doing half a chapter and in the text there are 5 assignments. Some are shorter(a verb choice after translating) and some are longer(coming up with sentences).  Then in the workbook there are another 5 exercises.  Same in regards with some being short and some much harder/longer.  There are audio files to listen to(my son skips these) and she asks for time spent listening to German each week.  It starts with 30 min in Year 1 and we are up to 1hr15min now.  My son isn't consistent here and I've stopped asking him to listen to the german radio.  Instead we found a German cartoon that is easier to understand at his level or I let him watch Harry Potter in german.  ;-)  After all that homework you have to then go input online.  You have multiple chances now with points getting less and less.  The tests are short and feel easier than the homework.  There is an oral test every 3 chapters that is 15 min with the teacher. 

 

This is a hard year for my kid b/c he has so many other subjects with a lot of work as well.  We outsourced math and writing so I can't move deadlines when German is overwhelming.  I started learning it myself on Duolingo to help.  I have the teacher answer books to help guide him on some of the sections to what kind of answer they want.  I think Gleason feels harder than Frau Cruz, but she definitely wants them to learn.  She called one after DS had a bad homework grade and we spoke about his lack of checking things...a theme in all his work this year.  DS has had to ramp up his perseverance with the level of work this year.  

 

I said all that so you know, he works his butt off at German.  It's our most intensive subject in regards to homework, effort, stress.  It might be the same with any language though.  Mine tries to skip through things too fast and doesn't really study well.  Translation?  Nah, just skim for words and make a guess.  It's frustrating to me.  However, I do think Gleason is a good teacher.  She goes through the grammar in class, they all speak multiple times, she has special speakers/events in class.  But learning German is no walk in the park, I won't lie.  I've enjoyed it myself.   :)  And DS does like German.  He just doesn't like hard work.  *sigh*

Edited by tess in the burbs
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Big River Academy, maybe?

Yes, Big River. 

 

Cruz was under Gleason at Landry.  She uses the same powerpoints.  She made a lot of the audio files for both classes.  The difference is her homework.  The amount is the same but when you input you get 3 tries total for the best possible grade.  Gleason didn't have this option.  The kids now can input 3 times but it's less points for each attempt and you are doing it all in one try.  So Cruz my DS could try, see his bad score, then go try to fix things that might be wrong.  With Gleason he's trying to understand and fix in the moment.  Same work, just different in the grading.  

 

DS liked Cruz a lot.  We opted to move to Gleason for class time conflict and thinking she had been head at Landry, maybe a better teacher.  She admits being mean...you must know single or plural stuff, no leeway there.  However, She really loves the language and it comes across in class and her personal interaction.  We just received a German Christmas card and bookmark from her.  She called me when DS was struggling.  She's leading a trip to Germany next year.  He wasn't thrilled with Gleason at first...he felt her class was harder.  And maybe it is, but she's a great teacher.    Cruz was fine as well, but different than Gleason.  However, the book/slides/audio/tests are all the same between the two unless Cruz suddenly made all new material which I doubt. 

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Tess,

 

Thank you so much for all this and especially being honest about the workload. My son is going to have his hands full in 10th grade with English (writing course with essays every week), Biology (not going to be easy for him), World History (not an easy subject), and Geometry (we'll see).  I am not sure it would be a good idea to pile another hard course on him in 10th.  Maybe German can wait until 11th for ds, but then in 11th he will have Alg II, Chemistry, American History, and Literature (all going to be a challenge I know).  No doubt about it, high school is tough for some kids.

 

bluebonnetgirl

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We also gave OSU a try this year with our middle dd. Its her first language course and she is motivated though still young. While she appears to be doing well in the course and seems to like it alright, there is very little opportunity to actually converse with the instructor or others. The once a week 15 minute skype/phone session just isn't enough practice for her. So I'm thinking about hiring a separate tutor or something similar to supplement the OSU coursework if we continue. 

By contrast, our son is taking Spanish through Homeschool Spanish Academy and he has a lot more speaking time along with personalized instruction. HSA is basically run like one on one tutoring service following their established curriculum. The curriculum is also A-G approved for California public universities. So its a very solid program and tailored approach. 

I sort of wish HSA had a German variant. We may look for something more like that next year. What we don't want are language courses like those described above which are intensively rigorous and time consuming. OSU and HSA are both really great in that regard.

The WTMA German class sounds good. We may look into that for year 2. Though there is something to be said for sticking it out with the same program for consistency sake. I'm not sure how much different the S&S would be if we make a switch.

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We are mid year German 2 with Frau Cruz.  DD is doing well.  The workload is a good fit.  DD loves German, so much of it doesn't feel like work to her.  I will get a German tutor for twice a week next semester.  I am hoping Frau Cruz will continue with German 3 next year.  If not, we will transition to Frau Gleason.

 

I have a nephew in German 3 at the PS.  I have been keeping track of their progress.  They seem to be pacing closely, although they are 1 year apart.

 

I am very happy with our choice.

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My understanding is that both Frau Cruz and Gleason teach German history along with the language and teach it with a distinctly Protestant view, extolling the virtues of the reformation and Martin Luther. That pretty well shut the doors to those classes for us, as we are Catholic. Will look for a secular or a Catholic teacher of German instead.

Edited by bluebonnetgirl
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