UC A-G online publisher courses (ie AoPs, HSA, Chemadvantage, Edhesive, SVHS, Shmoop) do these count for ind PSA homeschoolers?

[mirabillis]

OK - so I thought I had this A-G stuff down. For the most part, we are opting to satisfy A-G requirements for admission to UC/CSU schools via AP/SAT testing/DE courses. That leaves me with just a few holes to fill that I'd like to do so without a big ol' test at the end of the line. So I was looking for A-G approved courses. But maybe that won't work? See below.

 

Under the UCOP A-G list - you see there are 73 'online publishers'

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?f=institutionTypeName%7COnline%20Publisher%3B

 

Of these, many well-known ones are included like:

AoPs

Homeschool Spanish Academy

ChemAdvantage

Edhesive

Silicon Valley High School

Shmoop

UC Scout

Online G3

and many others.

 

But these are ALL listed under 'online publisher' - not 'school'

 

So it is my understanding by providers like Shmoop (see below) - that it states that while A-G approval has been granted for these courses, you cannot claim A-G fulfillment unless your 'school' claims this A-G course on their course list. But what about those of us who are independent homeschoolers with private school affidavits - who do not have an 'umbrella school'? In another thread, someone mentioned that SVHS is a school and that is why theirs are considered A-G approved, but according to the UCOP A-G course list, there are also ONLY an online publisher of content.

 

See this:

Please note: because Shmoop is an online publisher and not an accredited school, courses taken directly through Shmoop will not be recognized for "a-g" purposes. Instead, the UC system will recognize Shmoop courses as "a-g" when they appear on high schools' "a-g" course lists and official transcripts from high schools that have established "a-g" course lists.

 

 

 

Does anyone have some experience as to what counts?

 

 

 

[Roadrunner]

I don't have an answer to your question, but I don't think you need to fill every hole. You are going to have SAT plus 2 SAT subject tests, so technically you will have satisfied their requirements. Add to that all the AP classes you DS is taking plus DE, and I think you have gone beyond their requirements.

 

It is an interesting question though for kids who don't want to test but prefer to just take A through G approved classes.

[quark]

All this is just my musing aloud. I don't have exact answers and I don't know if anyone will since UC Doorways also changes/ updates course lists.

• As you know from doing the pretend UC application, there is no space to mention providers, only course names.
• There are two additional comments boxes (academic history -- 550 characters; end of application -- 550 words) to explain your student's specific situation and provide context for anything out of the box/ starkly different from public/ private schools. You could list providers here and explain that they belong to the a-g approved list although you are not an accredited school.
• You will also declare on the application that yours is a homeschool so they should be reading the application keeping that in mind.
• I would also call UC to ask...explain your predicament (maybe write it out clearly/ succinctly before you call them?) -- I suggest asking after Feb/ March though as they might currently be busy with applications/ decisions.
• My suggestion to anyone who asks me IRL is to plan things in such a way that if doing 4 years of a core subject (and especially if DC wants to major in that area), aim to have about 2 years' worth (10th and 11th or 11th and 12th) that are AP/ DE/ SAT2-verifiable or "high-quality" in some other verifiable way -- this is for the more selective UCs. I might have to change this suggestion based on what we hear back in March. :tongue_smilie:

[...................]

Listening

 

If they can issue you a transcript you are good to go. For the rest I'd call.

[quark]

Listening

 

If they can issue you a transcript you are good to go. For the rest I'd call.

 

Transcripts might help but you wouldn't submit them with the application (UC asks specifically not to send transcripts). Just keep in mind!

 

[mirabillis]

Thanks Quark. Great advice! That's what I was thinking. The A-G approved courses sound so great in theory but then when you go try to really apply (even if pretend), you see, 'where on earth do I put this in?' You go into it expecting check boxes somewhere showing, here's how I got each A-G req'mt fulfilled. But nothing like that. Everyone should fill in pretend apps! 

 

Thanks Roadrunner.. I know in theory the UC schools often look at it holistically. But I'd like to cover all bases, just in case. Some campuses are more strict than others. 

 

Here is our A-G plan:

 

A (1) AP Human Geography

   (1) AP US Govt / SAT II US Hist

 

B (1) AP Eng Lang (for all 4 yrs)

 

C (1) SAT II Math

    (1) AP Calc
    (1) 1 DE Math

 

D (1) SAT II Bio
    (1) AP Chem

    (1) AP Physics (or SAT II Physics if not taking AP course)
    (1) 1 DE Science w/lab (maybe to add in non home-based lab)

 

E (4) Span 1-4 (Homeschool Spanish Academy) - A-G approved course
 

F (1) DE course

 

G (1) AP Comp Sci
    (1) AP Macro
    (1) AP Micro

    (1) AP Stats

 

 

[mirabillis]

I might have to call.

 

I guess looking at it in a nutshell - it's really only Spanish I'm looking at needing an A-G approved course b/c there will be no APs/SAT IIs - and probably don't want to do DE Spanish.

 

But I was interested to see my options. Not all my dc will be quite the test hound I believe this one can be.

[quark]

Having more APs in 10th and 11th could help boost UC GPA. Otherwise, I'm not much help where APs are concerned having taken the primarily DE path. Good luck!

[Ms Brooks]

 

Thanks Quark. Great advice! That's what I was thinking. The A-G approved courses sound so great in theory but then when you go try to really apply (even if pretend), you see, 'where on earth do I put this in?' You go into it expecting check boxes somewhere showing, here's how I got each A-G req'mt fulfilled. But nothing like that. Everyone should fill in pretend apps! 

 

Thanks Roadrunner.. I know in theory the UC schools often look at it holistically. But I'd like to cover all bases, just in case. Some campuses are more strict than others. 

 

Here is our A-G plan:

 

A (1) AP Human Geography

   (1) AP US Govt / SAT II US Hist

 

B (1) AP Eng Lang (for all 4 yrs)

 

C (1) SAT II Math

    (1) AP Calc

    (1) 1 DE Math

 

D (1) SAT II Bio

    (1) AP Chem

    (1) AP Physics (or SAT II Physics if not taking AP course)

    (1) 1 DE Science w/lab (maybe to add in non home-based lab)

 

E (4) Span 1-4 (Homeschool Spanish Academy) - A-G approved course

 

F (1) DE course

 

G (1) AP Comp Sci

    (1) AP Macro

    (1) AP Micro

    (1) AP Stats

 

 

I've been looking into this too. After reading over the UC website several times I came away with the understanding that either an AP exam or SAT Subject test would satisfy the science lab requirement. When I looked through the online vendor list some vendors were approved for only the 2017-2018 school year others did not appear to satisfy the requirement and were only listed as online. Further investigation is needed. 

 

There are only two AP English courses: AP Language and Composition and AP Literature and Composition. Link to AP courses.

You might want to consider AP Art History for the A-G Fine Arts requirement. 

I thought doing a foreign language as a dual enrollment student at the local JC might be easy to do online since the course would have a large audio component. 

 

I am just beginning to figure all of this out for DD#2. My experience in college applications leads me to believe that there are so many highly qualified/over qualified students applying to colleges that selection is random unless your kid has a super, duper hook that cannot be ignored.

[...................]

FYI there is exactly one publisher currently approved for AG Science with labs and that's shmoop. For Chrmistry. I've heard the Chemistry Subject Test is extremely hard, ...so that's a nice option . But since they don't provide a transcript and have a disclaimer on their website that's where it gets tricky. Tricky for us through a PSP and even more so for private affidavit HSers.

 

FYI Ms Brooks- the AP Art Hostory exam and class are truly extremely difficult. My friends all tell me that's one of the few things they think it's absolutely better to

Go to CC and take one or two semesters of Guitar :)

[MarkT]

Can CA homeschoolers get A-G credit for

 

http://www.ucscout.org/

 

  courses?

[Ms Brooks]

Can CA homeschoolers get A-G credit for

 

http://www.ucscout.org/

 

  courses?

 

I saw this vendor too and wondered the same thing. In the FAQ section of Scout it says:

 

No. Scout from University of California does not provide transcripts, but we do provide Grade Recommendation Reports if you are taking a Premium or On Demand course. Since the credit comes from the student’s school of record, not Scout, you can request that the Grade Recommendation Report be sent to the school, so the grade can be added to the student’s school transcript. All scenarios that involve a grade or credit must be worked out with the student’s school prior to taking a course with Scout. 

 

Without calling to confirm, I think the homeschool of record would be the school receiving the Grade Recommendation Report so the class can be added to a student's transcript.

[mirabillis]

So it's a total grey area. And if you've never seen the actual UC application, it's even muddier. When you register as a homeschool - your 'high school' does not automatically populate all the a-g course list, of course, like any other high school in CA does (or CC). So you just pencil in everything yourself. It's tricky. Like quark said, then you are tasked with how to tell them they are a-g approved or how you fulfilled such-and-such requirement, which could ideally be done in the 2 comment boxes to explain things outside the box. It is really not cut & dry.

 

I think I'll stick with HomeschoolSpanishAcademy - our 1 A-G Achille's heel right now. As I'm not anxious to jump to CC for that as our CC has it at 5 credits a pop. But it does seem like UCScout, Shmoop and even SVHS are all in the same boat, and just considered 'curriculum provider.' So therefore just adding their a-g course to your homeschool's course list.

 

If I were to call, which UCs do you recommend calling - anyone with experience? I understand they often give different answers - anyone with experience as to which UC campuses were the most helpful?

[quark]

Can CA homeschoolers get A-G credit for

 

http://www.ucscout.org/

 

  courses?

 

The few friends I know IRL who have used this have all said it was a soul-sucking experience (the content of the classes).

 

[mirabillis]

I've heard similar. Dry as dust.

[Roadrunner]

Am I not reading the UC page correctly? They say certain high scores on regular SAT and two subject SATs satisfy all a through g, not just for those subjects. If you supply in addition all the APs, they can't say you haven't met the technical requirements. You need those to be competitive for sure, but there is no requirement for every single course to be a through g unless you can't hit high enough scores on subject tests.

I can't imagine anybody to look at all the APs your DS takes (assuming high scores) and complain about the validity of his Spanish classes. Please tell me if I am simply wrong on that account because I don't plan on satisfying every single course with a through g stamp.

[quark]

Am I not reading the UC page correctly? They say certain high scores on regular SAT and two subject SATs satisfy all a through g, not just for those subjects. If you supply in addition all the APs, they can't say you haven't met the technical requirements. You need those to be competitive for sure, but there is no requirement for every single course to be a through g unless you can't hit high enough scores on subject tests.

I can't imagine anybody to look at all the APs your DS takes (assuming high scores) and complain about the validity of his Spanish classes. Please tell me if I am simply wrong on that account because I don't plan on satisfying every single course with a through g stamp.

 

Local accounts from friends about homeschooled DCs (many homeschooled from K-12 and all at UCB/UCLA) echo your sentiments so I don't think you are wrong. I think there is a lot of concern about competition at the top-tier UCs and perhaps even oversharing of information (which I might be guilty of too) that leads to confusion.

 

I think the best we can do is keep checking the requirements (UCs do change things), use strong validation where possible but also don't give in to just following requirements and robbing our kids of the reason we homeschool in the first place (if the reason was not "attend a UC or else").

 

I also think that adcom is going to look at test scores/ gpa first regardless and then other core criteria like ECs, personal insight responses, background, residency/ non residency before actually looking extremely deeply into how a-g was fulfilled but this is just my suspicion from reading and asking questions and not backed by data.

Edited January 22, 2017 by quark

[quark]

If I were to call, which UCs do you recommend calling - anyone with experience? I understand they often give different answers - anyone with experience as to which UC campuses were the most helpful?

 

I've always only gone through Cal, either in person or via phone. They hold admissions presentations every week IIRC.

[quark]

 

D (1) SAT II Bio

    (1) AP Chem

    (1) AP Physics (or SAT II Physics if not taking AP course)

    (1) 1 DE Science w/lab (maybe to add in non home-based lab)

 

[...]

 

F (1) DE course

 

 

Two suggestions... :001_smile:

 

For that last DE science w/lab, I would consider looking at the different UC campus general ed/ breadth requirements. E.g. IIRC UC Irvine allows bio/ chem/ physics for their graduation requirement while Cal requires that it be a bio science. So by DE-ing to align with graduation requirements, you can, in some cases, get that requirement out of the way too (please look into it if taking up this suggestion, I am not well versed with all UCs). Lab sciences at UCs are often so dreadfully impacted and so schedule-hogging that it helps get one out through the cheaper, smaller-class CC DE alternative.

 

For the F requirement, if that particular area is not huge a passion for your DS, consider a summer session at your CC. My DS read Rate My Professor reviews carefully, chose a fun class he also liked very much (film studies) and knocked off his F requirement in the most enjoyable yet quickest way we knew of.

Edited January 22, 2017 by quark

[mirabillis]

Am I not reading the UC page correctly? They say certain high scores on regular SAT and two subject SATs satisfy all a through g, not just for those subjects. If you supply in addition all the APs, they can't say you haven't met the technical requirements. You need those to be competitive for sure, but there is no requirement for every single course to be a through g unless you can't hit high enough scores on subject tests.

I can't imagine anybody to look at all the APs your DS takes (assuming high scores) and complain about the validity of his Spanish classes. Please tell me if I am simply wrong on that account because I don't plan on satisfying every single course with a through g stamp.

 

Every UC I spoke with at a recent college fair said the only special requirements for homeschoolers is to make sure you have fulfilled a-g requirements. So that is our plan. It gives us order to what was becoming a bit disordered chaos for us beginning of 9th grade, and so we are fine to follow these. 

 

What you are citing is admission by exception:

To be considered, students must take either the ACT with Writing or the SAT with Essay (or SAT Reasoning) as well as two SAT Subject Tests, and earn a minimum UC Score calculated from their exam scores. 

 

---------------------------

If you’re completing high school through home schooling, there are a few options for meeting UC admission requirements, depending on your situation. To help find which option is right for you, you should determine if:

1. Your home schooling courses are UC-approved for satisfying a-g requirements (for students in California) or are essentially equivalent to UC-approved courses for California high schools (for out-of-state students).
2. You’re issued an official high school transcript and diploma through a public school district.

If your home schooling does both of these, you should follow the same admission requirements for students in traditional high schools in California. If your home schooling does not meet the two criteria above, your best option for admission is by examination. 

 

I'd like to just be able to fulfill a-g requirements and not have to go the 'examination' route. That is our impetus. 

 

And yes you are probably right - our Span course validation is likely small peanuts. But I just want to cover all bases. And it's the reason I chose this Span provider, b/c of its a-g status. 

[mirabillis]

Two suggestions... :001_smile:

 

For that last DE science w/lab, I would consider looking at the different UC campus general ed/ breadth requirements. E.g. IIRC UC Irvine allows bio/ chem/ physics for their graduation requirement while Cal requires that it be a bio science. So by DE-ing to align with graduation requirements, you can, in some cases, get that requirement out of the way too (please look into it if taking up this suggestion, I am not well versed with all UCs). Lab sciences at UCs are often so dreadfully impacted and so schedule-hogging that it helps get one out through the cheaper, smaller-class CC DE alternative.

 

For the F requirement, if that particular area is not huge a passion for your DS, consider a summer session at your CC. My DS read Rate My Professor reviews carefully, chose a fun class he also liked very much (film studies) and knocked off his F requirement in the most enjoyable yet quickest way we knew of.

 

Thanks Quark. That's a great idea for 12th grade DE science. Better to get that out of the way now!

 

And also that is our plan for the F - but in looking at past summer catalogs, I'm not seeing any of the courses he would enjoy (Intro Photoshop/Film Studies/Theater Studies) offered in summer. So we may have to do it Fall/Spring junior or senior year.

[Roadrunner]

I wonder if what they meant by fulfilling a through g requirements is we have all the classes that a through g requires on the transcript (make sure we get arts and this many years of this and that) and not necessarily every single one from an approved providers. At this point I am going into wishful thinking phase probably and starting to plot my move to Oregon. 😂

[quark]

I wonder if what they meant by fulfilling a through g requirements is we have all the classes that a through g requires on the transcript (make sure we get arts and this many years of this and that) and not necessarily every single one from an approved providers.

 

This is what one of my friends with 2 kids in UCB mentioned to me. Thing is there are so many factors that come into play: how much research kid has done while in high school, rigor of courses over 10-12th grades, APs, DE-ing, ECs, essays, spikiness, etc that makes it so hard. No one specific formula for anyone.

 

And of course both the a-g and admit by exam requirements only spell out minimum requirements so again, so much is up to interpretation.

 

I am done with my only kid (unless he is rejected everywhere this cycle) or I might move up to Oregon with you. :laugh:

[Roadrunner]

This is what one of my friends with 2 kids in UCB mentioned to me. Thing is there are so many factors that come into play: how much research kid has done while in high school, rigor of courses over 10-12th grades, APs, DE-ing, ECs, essays, spikiness, etc that makes it so hard. No one specific formula for anyone.

 

And of course both the a-g and admit by exam requirements only spell out minimum requirements so again, so much is up to interpretation.

 

I am done with my only kid (unless he is rejected everywhere this cycle) or I might move up to Oregon with you. :laugh:

Oh, I absolutely agree. At this point I am wondering if our plan to take US History through WTM (not a through g approved) and do World history at home will not disqualify us. We plan to AP or SAT 2 the rest, but we don't care to put that much intensity into history.

[mirabillis]

We also plan to do WTMA US Hist (and SAT II it) and since we're already be done with AP Human Geo/AP US Govt, we'll do an at-home World History 11th grade year, as we'll be done fulfilling their minimums but want to show 4 consecutive years' worth of history. And besides, kid needs a basic understanding of all histories anyway. ;-) This is all just speculation really, but I think the ideas brought forth are important to all in the UC/A-G bubble. I thought it most fascinating how so many were over the moon AoPs was a-g approved, but yet it is the same as a shmoop which has a very clear disclaimer. But all that may not really matter, and you may be able to 'disclaim' it all yourself in the little extra 550-word text bubbles on the app. ;)

[quark]

I'm curious to see if UC will assess DS's history section lacking. It's his weakest section. He has 4 years but 2 (world history) were completely unschooled (counted hours and felt okay giving both unschooled world histories 1 credit each). He has 2 DE credits for 11th and 12th (US and government). So if they disregard the unschooled courses, he will have 2 that are a-g worthy. Still follows minimum requirements but again, it's *minimum* requirements.

 

Then again, I don't understand why that one area would put him at a disadvantage when everything else is strong and his intended area of major obviously stronger still. Are they going to say you cannot attend UC despite being a high scorer because you have these 2 unschooled history classes? And how could he be spiky/ strong/ show intense passion in math like that if he had spent more time checking off history boxes? It wouldn't have happened. He has gotten as far as he has in math by following passion first and only then seeing where we could also check off a-g boxes.

 

How they review applications: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/how-applications-reviewed/

 

How would students, within just 4 high school years, have

Outstanding performance in one or more specific subject areas.

Outstanding work in one or more special projects in any academic field of study.

if they just spent their time checking off boxes?

 

Maybe others have answers to that. With my kid, having the above came at the expense of letting other areas go.

[...................]

Is shmoop accredited?

 

 

[...................]

I'm curious to see if UC will assess DS's history section lacking. It's his weakest section. He has 4 years but 2 (world history) were completely unschooled (counted hours and felt okay giving both unschooled world histories 1 credit each). He has 2 DE credits for 11th and 12th (US and government). So if they disregard the unschooled courses, he will have 2 that are a-g worthy. Still follows minimum requirements but again, it's *minimum* requirements.

 

Then again, I don't understand why that one area would put him at a disadvantage when everything else is strong and his intended area of major obviously stronger still. Are they going to say you cannot attend UC despite being a high scorer because you have these 2 unschooled history classes? And how could he be spiky/ strong/ show intense passion in math like that if he had spent more time checking off history boxes? It wouldn't have happened. He has gotten as far as he has in math by following passion first and only then seeing where we could also check off a-g boxes.

 

How they review applications: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/how-applications-reviewed/

 

How would students, within just 4 high school years, have

if they just spent their time checking off boxes?

 

Maybe others have answers to that. With my kid, having the above came at the expense of letting other areas go.

That;s why you have to make it A Goal, not THE Goal.  That's why it has to be a Goal, not a God.

 

Seriously....there's more than one path to a successful rewarding career.  I am going to have my son fulfill the requirements, as and if they also align with him still enjoying to learn, being a human, having some free time, and feeling like a healthy person.  He may or may not get in and I am not going to freak out about it. He can go to community college (by then he will be an experienced driver and there's a fantastic one 20 minutes away by highway) or he can go to a private college and have a more debt.  

 

I have a lot of moments where I think I'd like to drop the entire thing.

[Roadrunner]

I am committed to Great Books approach for history. A little nervous, for sure.

[quark]

.

Edited January 22, 2017 by quark

[Ellie]

OK - so I thought I had this A-G stuff down. For the most part, we are opting to satisfy A-G requirements for admission to UC/CSU schools via AP/SAT testing/DE courses. That leaves me with just a few holes to fill that I'd like to do so without a big ol' test at the end of the line. So I was looking for A-G approved courses. But maybe that won't work? See below.

 

Under the UCOP A-G list - you see there are 73 'online publishers'

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?f=institutionTypeName%7COnline%20Publisher%3B

 

Of these, many well-known ones are included like:

AoPs

Homeschool Spanish Academy

ChemAdvantage

Edhesive

Silicon Valley High School

Shmoop

UC Scout

Online G3

and many others.

 

But these are ALL listed under 'online publisher' - not 'school'

 

So it is my understanding by providers like Shmoop (see below) - that it states that while A-G approval has been granted for these courses, you cannot claim A-G fulfillment unless your 'school' claims this A-G course on their course list. But what about those of us who are independent homeschoolers with private school affidavits - who do not have an 'umbrella school'? In another thread, someone mentioned that SVHS is a school and that is why theirs are considered A-G approved, but according to the UCOP A-G course list, there are also ONLY an online publisher of content.

 

See this:

Please note: because Shmoop is an online publisher and not an accredited school, courses taken directly through Shmoop will not be recognized for "a-g" purposes. Instead, the UC system will recognize Shmoop courses as "a-g" when they appear on high schools' "a-g" course lists and official transcripts from high schools that have established "a-g" course lists.

 

 

 

Does anyone have some experience as to what counts?

 

Since you file your own PSA, you are the equivalent of any other private school in California, so I don't see why you couldn't include these on a course list. However, just because you can do it technically does not mean it will be accepted by the UC system.

 

[...................]

Am I not reading the UC page correctly? They say certain high scores on regular SAT and two subject SATs satisfy all a through g, not just for those subjects. If you supply in addition all the APs, they can't say you haven't met the technical requirements. You need those to be competitive for sure, but there is no requirement for every single course to be a through g unless you can't hit high enough scores on subject tests.

I can't imagine anybody to look at all the APs your DS takes (assuming high scores) and complain about the validity of his Spanish classes. Please tell me if I am simply wrong on that account because I don't plan on satisfying every single course with a through g stamp.

That's for "Admission by Testing" the reason we are not relying on this is that the scores have to be quite high indeed.

[...................]

Since you file your own PSA, you are the equivalent of any other private school in California, so I don't see why you couldn't include these on a course list. However, just because you can do it technically does not mean it will be accepted by the UC system.

 

They are more likely to ask homeschoolers for proof, course descriptions and other things to verify. Sometimes they ask for explanations on the essay you wrote. Keep everything and whenever possible make sure it's verifiable by an outside source (for your a-g courses). For home made, keep the book, publisher isbn, course outline, samples of work, grace record you made at home and all tests. For Lab sciences keep all lab notebooks

[mirabillis]

Great advice and good discussion. Just remember, to fill out a pretend app when application season opens again. Quark gave me that advice in Nov and it was the best advice! Very eye-opening!

 

 

[quark]

Good thought CT! And do this for every college, not just UCs. I bought some Sterilite tote boxes on sale a while back and every semester, once the kid is done, I file all notes, texts, syllabi etc away inside and label the tote. It's easy to stack up in my garage (small footprint). For reports and essays handed in electronically, we try to back up as many as we can on cloud storage.