Realistic expectations for online courses

[BlessedMom]

This is our first live online math course. We are nearing the end of the first semester and I feel concerned that the course content is too light. However, I have no real ability to gauge whether this is an accurate assessment. Part of me wants to change classes but I am not sure that is the wisest choice.

I would really appreciate any wisdom or experience you can provide.

 

Thanks

[klmama]

We need more information in order to answer your question.  What level course is it?  How long and how frequent are the online classes?  What text is used?  How much homework does your student have?  How many tests, quizzes, etc.? 

 

 

[Lanny]

If you feel that the course content is too light, you are probably correct. If your student is not being challenged, it is too light.  As in post #2, more information would be helpful.  

 

My gut feeling is that probably you should look for something else, based on the limited information in post #1.  

[regentrude]

What kind of course is it?

How does the course content compare to a standard syllabus for the class?

How does the level of assigned problems compare to the level of problems in a typical text?

There are many reasons a math course can feel "too light". Your student can have a better preparation than average, can be a faster learner, be in a course of the wrong level, or the course can be fluff.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that the course is online.

Edited January 16, 2017 by regentrude

[HomeAgain]

It really does depend.  With my son's online courses, I could expect about 1h in the "classroom" each week, watching examples, reading through demonstrations, and looking over the guide.

I could expect roughly 4h of independent work each week. 

I could expect a teacher who was available when needed to answer questions and clarify concepts.

I could expect him to get appropriate feedback on completed work before moving on.

 

His classes were not live, though, and I already knew the course content was comparable to or higher than that of the public school here.

[kathy_overman]

We just switched writing classes because my son was writing less as an 8th grader than as a 7th grader.  He simply was not challenged.  It was a hard decision and it cost  money but I am hoping it pays off in him being challenged.

 

I agree with the above comments - if your gut is telling you it is too easy - it probably is.  This is one of the big negatives of homeschooling - it breeds doubt.

[yvonne]

I agree with the pps..... If your instinct is telling you that the course is too light for your particular student, it probably is. Don't lose a whole year of a subject like math! Change now!

 

I had a similar situation with a class my two boys took.  It was a core subject. Almost from the beginning I wondered if it wasn't too light. Even my boys asked, several times, "Are you sure this is a good enough class for high school?"   First semester ended, second was beginning. I churned and churned on it... should I move them to a different class?  Will it get more challenging?  The class had been highly recommended by someone who seemed to have similar academic expectations as we have. The provider had an age limit on the next higher level, so we couldn't just move up to the higher level class, but there were classes from other providers that we could have moved to mid-year....

 

In the end, I did not change classes. It was one of my two big high school mistakes. We lost an entire year of that core subject (x2 because both my boys were taking it!)  It was not that it was a bad class. The teacher was good. The texts used were ok. It was just a really poor placement for my boys because they work they'd done in that subject previously, especially the year before, had prepared them very well. But still, they spun their wheels for a year. Big mistake not to have acted on what was right in front of me.

 

Your son may be in a good class, with a good instructor, but it might still be the wrong placement for your particular student. There are likely to be other live, online classes out there that would be a better fit for your student. Don't waste his and your time on a class where he's spending more time spinning his wheels than he is making forward progress. You'll regret it.

 

If you let us know what math curriculum/program he's using, folks might be able to offer suggestions to either step it up, find an "honors" level class that uses it, or find a more challenging curriculum/program. 

 

Good luck to you. I know this is an unfortunate situation to be in. But, you can fix it!

 

 

 

[BlessedMom]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

 

Here is a little more information.

 

The course is Geometry.  Live class twice weekly.

The homework amount varies from week to week.

The amount of tests and quizzes seem adequate.

for the material covered.

There was no syllabus provided.

 

My student has always been strong in math.

 

 

Some questions for you,

 

Do teachers typically cover every section of a chapter in the textbook?

 

Is it realistic to think that a teacher can teach all the new material that is covered in a textbook in

only 2 hours a week?

 

Has it been your experience that some teachers use materials they have pulled together rather than the

lesson problems in the text?

 

Do they usually finish the entire textbook?

 

 

If I could find a course willing to take my student for the second semester, how concerned should I be about

the potential of being behind in the new class? 

 

If I were to keep my student in this class for the second semester, how concerned should I be

that they might not be adequately prepared for Algebra 2 next year?

 

 

If your student has taken Geometry can you please share what their course looked like?

 

 

Thank you.

[regentrude]

Do teachers typically cover every section of a chapter in the textbook?

 

Is it realistic to think that a teacher can teach all the new material that is covered in a textbook in only 2 hours a week?

 

That would depend entirely on the textbook, and how much work the student is expected to do at home.

Whether each section is covered again depends on the textbook; some sections may contain non essential material.

Whether they finish the book depends on the book. Many ps textbooks contain far too much material to be covered in a  year.

ETA: The fact that no syllabus is provided would be a red flag for me and not speak highly of the quality of the course.

 

Has it been your experience that some teachers use materials they have pulled together rather than the

lesson problems in the text?

 

I am an instructor and write all my own assignments rather than using the ones given with the text. The wording is more precise, the problems are covering precisely the concept i wish them to cover, and there are no online solution manuals out there for students to copy from.

 

Whether a teacher creates her own materials or uses the ones provided with the text does not say anything about the quality of a class.

 

 

 

If I could find a course willing to take my student for the second semester, how concerned should I be about

the potential of being behind in the new class? 

 

I would examine the syllabi and compare. There si always this possibility.

 

 

If I were to keep my student in this class for the second semester, how concerned should I be that they might not be adequately prepared for Algebra 2 next year?

 

You don't need geometry for algebra 2, except for a few applications; how much that is depends on the program. Some people switch the order and teach alg2 before geo.

Edited January 16, 2017 by regentrude

[rdj2027]

Most teachers do not cover every section in a book.  Most textbooks in the US are not meant to be covered in their entirety, rather they provide the teacher with a range of material. Most of the teachers I know pull material from various sources (as I do myself).  In any online class we have done, the lectures were only part of the course.  In our classes, the actual learning is done working the exercises, doing the homework and readings, particularly in math and the sciences.  My son did Algebra 1, Algebra 2 and is now doubling up pre-calc and geometry.  He has A's in all of his classes and a solid understanding of math.  He is wants to major in computer science in college so for him math is important.

[lmrich]

It is a difficult call to make. I would also advise you to know what you are going to do instead. 

 

I had to pull my dd out of a Spanish 2 class (with a teacher) because she was moving at a snail's pace. My dd would have no way of earning her credit this year if she had stayed with the teacher, but I am not sure if she can earn it anyways because she is so far behind. (Of course this happens in public and private school, too, I have heard the stories from many, many people about teachers falling behind..)

 

I think getting a syllabus with dates is key. 

[dereksurfs]

As others have stated, it really depends on a number of factors. But its very rare that a teacher will cover every section of every chapter in a math textbook. Could it be that the problems are simply not challenging enough or that the teacher is not giving enough of the challenge problems available?

 

Which textbook is it?

 

Geometry should not impact Algebra 2. Some even take Geometry 'after' Algebra 2. Rather, a solid foundation in Algebra 1 is key to success in Algebra 2. However if the course is too light for him it may be missing the challenge he needs to grow in his logical problem solving skills which the stronger Geometry courses typically do. Finding that just right challenge is really the key for constant growth in math. Too easy and kids get bored. Too hard and they get discouraged. That's where tailoring comes in and its always a bit of a dance with each student as one can vary so much from another even within one's own family. :)

Edited January 17, 2017 by dereksurfs

[mirabillis]

We took Geometry at WHA - 2x weekly live meetings. Each was 1-1/2 hours. Then my ds had one section of questions pretty much every day. I'm pretty sure they finished the whole book but skipped a couple chapters along the way. He has a good grasp of Geometry now, is a mathy kid, and felt challenged enough.

 

 

[crazyforlatin]

It'll depend on which provider you jump into at this point and which textbook it is using. WTMA's AOPS geometry is now in chapter 8. The teacher will provide some of the recorded classes and topics that are required in order to continue with the second semester. The teacher is expecting new students. As you probably know, AoPS geometry leans more towards the challenging, but it's not undoable. I don't know how hard it is to just jump in at this point. There are a few things a student would really have to know such as similarity and ratios, congruent triangles and angles, but perhaps other textbooks have covered all of this in the first half.

 

Can you tell us which textbook your son is now using? If it's Jurgensen, then I'm surprised. It's the book I would have used if DD didn't want to continue with AOPS geometry. Either book is a fine choice in my mind. So if it's Jurgensen, I would stick with it, even if he is coasting. For some people using AOPS geometry is overkill.

[mirabillis]

WHA uses Jurgenson also. He's now in Alg II and doing great. I was very pleased with WHA's Geometry. 

[Julie of KY]

Agreeing with above.

If your gut is telling you it is too easy, it probably is (for your student), but it might not be "easy" for everyone. "I" expect a syllabus for a course so that I know the expectations for the course. I don't think you have to do problems from the text or do every section, but you might consult someone knowledgeable about if the skipped sections are important. Whether or not to continue with this course is something you will have to determine.

 

As others have said, algebra 2 is not dependent on geometry knowledge so your son should be good there.

 

If you are looking to change mid-semester, you might consider Derek Owens. You can start at whatever point you need in the course and he'll work with you on determining placement if necessary.

 

I would NOT recommend jumping in mid-semester into a class using AoPS Geometry unless you've done the beginning of the textbook.

 

 

[Arcadia]

There was no syllabus provided.

 

Do teachers typically cover every section of a chapter in the textbook?

My oldest loves structure so we have only signed up for outsource classes that have syllabus provided, some more detailed than others. My kids have taken outsource classes for math, science, German, and music theory. They do not cover every section in the textbook.

Is it realistic to think that a teacher can teach all the new material that is covered in a textbook in

only 2 hours a week?

 

Has it been your experience that some teachers use materials they have pulled together rather than the

lesson problems in the text?

 

Do they usually finish the entire textbook?

 

2hrs a week would require the teacher to condense to main points usually.

Teachers do use their own materials as well as what is in their teachers guides/manuals. It helps prevent cheating on tests since teachers manuals can be bought used on Amazon and used bookstores.

They don't finish the entire textbook except for my kids German class at a Saturday school.

If I could find a course willing to take my student for the second semester, how concerned should I be about

the potential of being behind in the new class?

 

If I were to keep my student in this class for the second semester, how concerned should I be

that they might not be adequately prepared for Algebra 2 next year?

 

If your student has taken Geometry can you please share what their course looked like?

 

I won't be concerned either way.

My kids did geometry with AoPS online. It is 1.5hrs weekly but students have to read and try the exercises in the textbook hopefully before class. My kids spent at least an hour daily doing the readings, exercises and homework for that class.