For Fun: Homeschool Things You Just Don't Get (no hate)

[Dmmetler]

This is probably the wrong kind of I Don't Get, but I don't get how people can find good friends for their DC while homeschooling if not part of some sort of large community group that meets more than once/week. DD has only ever made good friends in the year and a half she was in a B&M school; it takes her a while to make friends and she seems to need a large pool of them (10-15 girls, together all day every school day) to make a strong connection with a few. We've tried interest-based activities, classes, online classes, sports, park days, etc. and they just never have the consistency, longevity, and variety of kids that B&M school does.

 

How do you all find friends for your kids? This makes me crazy. I don't see it getting easier as they get older, either.

 

 

I guess the only other thing I don't get is Legos. Our kids like them, of course, but they leave them in little bits and piles all over the house every time we have them, so they have been banned. How do you convince kids to keep them in a certain (out of the way) area all the time? How do your toddlers not eat them?

For younger age groups, being very involved with one specific homeschool group, so we had the same kids at co-op (fun classes), park day, and usually at least a couple of clubs that met during the month worked.

 

At middle school, a lot of kids start doing tutorials, where you drop your kid off for 2-3 full days a week and they do their academics (and get social time and meet people) there. But if your kid is not in-sync academically with the tutorial, or if you're not willing to spend several thousand dollars a year, plus books, for the service, it gets hard. One of the few teens in our homeschool group has finally really gotten friends her age-because she got a lifeguarding job at a private club. Before that, her closest in age peer was 4 years younger.

[laundrycrisis]

This is kind of what I was getting at - the only concrete purpose is to show that a particular level of work is completed.  So for a diploma from home, is that less likely to show that?  I can see why someone might think not, but I'm not sure if that is actually accurate.  Universities seem to find them to be reliable enough to be useful.

 

I have always thought that perhaps the universities are basically giving the mom transcript and diploma a nod and a pass because of other things the student has in their favor - entrance exam scores, AP or CLEP scores, other test scores, and writing submitted with the application.  Those things defend the home education.  And once they have a degree of some sort, the high school things hardly matter.  But what if those things were missing ?  I am thinking of students with LD issues, or who just don't test well.  Perhaps they are going to try to get into a vocational program, or just start working full time and try to rise through the ranks, and/or try college part time while working for a living.  I can see a situation being a problem when there are no outside grades, no test scores, and nothing to defend the mom transcript and diploma.  I think in those situations, the mom diploma might make it harder for them to get into the vocational program or get the full time job.  

 

We have a relative with LD issues who falls into this group.  He is very smart, but struggled academically through high school with ADD and memory issues, and ended up finishing a PS diploma with virtual classes at home with fewer distractions.  I think he has a job or two and is taking some vocational courses.  And we have a child who I can see possibly being in the same situation.  In this scenario, I don't feel that a mom transcript and diploma would serve him well.  

Edited January 16, 2017 by laundrycrisis

[Wheres Toto]

Every single how do I make friends ends up "at church".  I'm about to fake belief. (I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one......)

 

I posted in another thread how my belief is somewhat out of the mainstream.  But we attend a very liberal UMC in a very liberal area of the country, so I don't feel like I'm faking, so much as not quite aligned.  The pastor basically told us it was not necessary to believe everything of the main church, or even what he says, to be welcome.   Dh is a much more mainline believer than I am, and it was important to him, so we go.  I would NOT be able to do it if we hadn't found a church that was not at all legalistic, exclusive, or one way/right way.

[Seasider]

OH MY GOSH YEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! And while I'm totally impressed that your nine year old can do post doctorate level calculus or whatever, NO she can't be in the teen social group. And your four year old winning the "Miss Cutie Pie" trophy at her dance competition doesn't mean she can go to the homeschool Prom.

One of my biggest homeschooler peeves - signing 12 year old Jonny up for an educational field trip and asking "is it okay if I bring the little siblings along"? I no longer do group field trips unless I hand pick the attendees and know this won't happen. So many good opportunities have been ruined by dragged-along, misbehaving younger kids, kids that I don't dislike under other circumstances.

 

I guess an adjunct of this is the all-or-none folks. If all the kids can't go, none of the kids can go. I have sadly watched a number of oldest children miss out on some great opportunities and great friendships because mom won't allow any of the kids to go places without siblings.

[Crimson Wife]

Another thing I don't get:  people who have been in the trenches as long as I have or longer who discount every idea or opinion given by moms who are starting out.  Not only is that disrespectful, but they are able to do research and to find what works for their children just as well as we did.  Will they make some mistakes as we did?  Of course, they might - or they might just prove themselves better at it than us.  ;)

 

I don't discount their opinion WRT to their own children. But if your kids are 6 and 2 and you're judging veteran HS moms of teens for "doing HSing wrong" (see one of the previous posts in this thread), then, yeah, I'm going to call them out over it. Let's see what tune Ms. Judgy McJudgerson is singing in 2027 if she's even still HSing at that point.

[Bluegoat]

I have always thought that perhaps the universities are basically giving the mom transcript and diploma a nod and a pass because of other things the student has in their favor - entrance exam scores, AP or CLEP scores, other test scores, and writing submitted with the application.  Those things defend the home education.  And once they have a degree of some sort, the high school things hardly matter.  But what if those things were missing ?  I am thinking of students with LD issues, or who just don't test well.  Perhaps they are going to try to get into a vocational program, or just start working full time and try to rise through the ranks, and/or try college part time while working for a living.  I can see a situation being a problem when there are no outside grades, no test scores, and nothing to defend the mom transcript and diploma.  I think in those situations, the mom diploma might make it harder for them to get into the vocational program or get the full time job.  

 

We have a relative with LD issues who falls into this group.  He is very smart, but struggled academically through high school with ADD and memory issues, and ended up finishing a PS diploma with virtual classes at home with fewer distractions.  I think he has a job or two and is taking some vocational courses.  And we have a child who I can see possibly being in the same situation.  In this scenario, I don't feel that a mom transcript and diploma would serve him well.  

 

Maybe.  Here in my region of Canada it seems a little variable - a few universities want things like SATs or outside courses, usually they are open to whatever you have.  Most want a written sample.  Many want to have a list of courses and the kinds of texts used.  My college, which is probably the one that tends to have the most academic students, doesn't really ask for anything very specific at all - they get a lot of homeschool admissions though and actively look at those kinds of students as they find they do well.

[Guest]

Every single how do I make friends ends up "at church". I'm about to fake belief. (I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one......)

Not to derail the thread, but please don't think you have to believe or fake belief to go to church. Reaching out to all, believers or not, is kind of the point of most churches. I'm sure there are some that are closed minded, but I think the majority realize that many people go there in search of something, not knowing what- or judging what. Being there as a community is a central tenant. It's not a "you can only be here if you're a Christian" type of thing. I assure you that everyone there has their issues and doubts and struggles. You would not be unique in any of that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Universities make money by enrolling students. Are there universities that give out scholarships to kids with only a mommy diploma and no outside test scores, DE classes, student interview, etc to verify that mommy didn't just lock the kids in the basement for 18 years and then slapped a bunch of straight As on the diploma?

 

Employers already don't tend to care for high school diplomas, because the PS ones can't be trusted. We need to go back to where employers can trust PS high school diplomas, so they'll hire people without a college degree for positions which should not require a college degree.

 

ETA: but, statistically speaking, I don't know what the breakdown is on reliability of a mommy diploma vs a PS diploma in the US.

Ds was not able to attend college classes without at a minimum showing a general mastery of math and English through the placement tests. Of course many with even ps diplomas fail those as would any unprepared homeschoolers. You can take courses to remedy those deficits but they don't count for college credit. Every single diploma has to be proved in some way once you reach college level.

 

He also has his SAT scores etc to back up his mommy diploma. You don't get good scores without having some skills and prior study to get to that point.

 

That's why colleges even ask for those tests because no diploma shows specific mastery of the prerequisites for college. That's why colleges don't discriminate against mommy diplomas themselves. The holders have to prove themselves just like everyone else.

[HomeAgain]

Here's another I don't get: Statements of Faith.  I sort of understand people are looking for a "tribe", but good grief, even a church doesn't require you to swear on a belief system to go and enjoy the sermon or talk to people there.  And they tend to get icky, like the one here that wants to know what you're doing in your bedroom is holy and legit.  Ew.  Not something I need to share to make sure my kid has access to sports or robotics, tyvm.

 

Which............also goes hand in hand when people are upset there are no high schoolers milling about.  Can't much complain when you don't want to associate with people who won't sign the box!  We find other venues for our kids, like putting them back in school or DE.

[cjzimmer1]

I have always thought that perhaps the universities are basically giving the mom transcript and diploma a nod and a pass because of other things the student has in their favor - entrance exam scores, AP or CLEP scores, other test scores, and writing submitted with the application.  Those things defend the home education.  And once they have a degree of some sort, the high school things hardly matter.  But what if those things were missing ?  I am thinking of students with LD issues, or who just don't test well.  Perhaps they are going to try to get into a vocational program, or just start working full time and try to rise through the ranks, and/or try college part time while working for a living.  I can see a situation being a problem when there are no outside grades, no test scores, and nothing to defend the mom transcript and diploma.  I think in those situations, the mom diploma might make it harder for them to get into the vocational program or get the full time job.  

 

 

 

On the job front I think it totally depends on the employer.  My son has a professional job, in a medical and food testing lab, includes 401k matching.  He's 18 and only has a mom diploma.  He's the only person in his group without a college diploma.  Now he is going to the CC but he started that after the job so that wasn't a consideration when they hired him.  They require their employees to have a HS diploma but really they don't care where it's from.  They are much more interested in how the person presents themselves in the interview and how they have performed at previous jobs. 

 

On the other hand a company my husband applied to wouldn't even talk to him because he didn't have a Bachelor's degrees despite 15 years industry experience.   That company won't hire anyone without a bachelor's end of subject, so the HS diploma doesn't matter no matter where it came from.  Different companies different cultures. 

 

For some companies the paper trail means everything, for others it means nothing. 

[luuknam]

Ds was not able to attend college classes without at a minimum showing a general mastery of math and English through the placement tests. Of course many with even ps diplomas fail those as would any unprepared homeschoolers. You can take courses to remedy those deficits but they don't count for college credit. Every single diploma has to be proved in some way once you reach college level.

 

He also has his SAT scores etc to back up his mommy diploma. You don't get good scores without having some skills and prior study to get to that point.

 

That's why colleges even ask for those tests because no diploma shows specific mastery of the prerequisites for college. That's why colleges don't discriminate against mommy diplomas themselves. The holders have to prove themselves just like everyone else.

 

Hm, I'd forgotten about placement tests (do all colleges/universities have those?). Btw, Dutch high school diplomas are good enough that Dutch colleges/universities don't have placement tests - it'd be nice if American high school diplomas could be worth something too.

 

To be clear, I don't have anything against mommy diplomas compared to US public school diplomas, it's just that someone was saying that there are universities that accept them, without any additional tests like the SAT/ACT/AP/CLEP or outside courses or *anything*. So, I was wondering if there are people who get scholarships based on just a mommy diploma.

[fairfarmhand]

Here's another I don't get: Statements of Faith. I sort of understand people are looking for a "tribe", but good grief, even a church doesn't require you to swear on a belief system to go and enjoy the sermon or talk to people there. And they tend to get icky, like the one here that wants to know what you're doing in your bedroom is holy and legit. Ew. Not something I need to share to make sure my kid has access to sports or robotics, tyvm.

 

Which............also goes hand in hand when people are upset there are no high schoolers milling about. Can't much complain when you don't want to associate with people who won't sign the box! We find other venues for our kids, like putting them back in school or DE.

Does it make a difference if the group is basically saying "here's the premise of the group. You don't have to believe it but your kids will be exposed to this worldview while here" I've been members of groups where your signature indicates that people read the statement of faith so there's not surprises.

 

This was s very basic c statement of faith...one of the apostolic creeds I think. Nothing about creation, bible versions, or bedroom stuff.

 

 

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[Seasider]

Ds was not able to attend college classes without at a minimum showing a general mastery of math and English through the placement tests. Of course many with even ps diplomas fail those as would any unprepared homeschoolers. You can take courses to remedy those deficits but they don't count for college credit. Every single diploma has to be proved in some way once you reach college level.

 

He also has his SAT scores etc to back up his mommy diploma. You don't get good scores without having some skills and prior study to get to that point.

 

That's why colleges even ask for those tests because no diploma shows specific mastery of the prerequisites for college. That's why colleges don't discriminate against mommy diplomas themselves. The holders have to prove themselves just like everyone else.

Yes, in our experience the universities were looking at ACT scores as a ticket to ride.

[HomeAgain]

Does it make a difference if the group is basically saying "here's the premise of the group. You don't have to believe it but your kids will be exposed to this worldview while here" I've been members of groups where your signature indicates that people read the statement of faith so there's not surprises.

 

This was s very basic c statement of faith...one of the apostolic creeds I think. Nothing about creation, bible versions, or bedroom stuff.

 

 

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I don't mind that at all.  We've done many things that are different from our personal belief system for exposure, convenience or friendship.  It's the forced believe-like-us-or-you're-not-wanted that I have a problem with.  I also find it at odds with the faith being presented.

[poppy]

I love statements of faith. If there is one, it's clear I am unwelcome.

 

Required or not. I saw a preschool coop with a modest dress rule and I nope-d right out of there.

Edited January 16, 2017 by poppy

[ktgrok]

My dd is dating a guy who was homeschooled k-12. He is not a fan, mostly because he was left to teach himself once he reached high school. He's the sweetest guy, and I can tell he's afraid of offending me, but dd said he was completely aghast that she wants to hs her kids.

 

That "let them teach themselves" thing is a problem at any age, I think.

 

I think it depends on the kid. My son HATES me teaching him, and preferred to teach himself. 

[cjzimmer1]

I think it depends on the kid. My son HATES me teaching him, and preferred to teach himself. 

 

Yep my oldest has been self teaching since 3rd grade.  He just hated being taught.  He liked to read and study himself.  I checked his work, he'd ask questions if he was stuck but otherwise it was all on him.  Not for every kid but for some it is exactly what they need.

[Dmmetler]

Hm, I'd forgotten about placement tests (do all colleges/universities have those?). Btw, Dutch high school diplomas are good enough that Dutch colleges/universities don't have placement tests - it'd be nice if American high school diplomas could be worth something too.

 

To be clear, I don't have anything against mommy diplomas compared to US public school diplomas, it's just that someone was saying that there are universities that accept them, without any additional tests like the SAT/ACT/AP/CLEP or outside courses or *anything*. So, I was wondering if there are people who get scholarships based on just a mommy diploma.

 

I don't know of any school locally that doesn't either require the SAT/ACT or placement tests, and many require both. Even the local CC requires placement tests or the ACT, and it doesn't require a high school diploma (but you won't get financial aid or state scholarships without one until you've completed 12 college credits, unless you are dually enrolled in high school).

[Jean in Newcastle]

Hm, I'd forgotten about placement tests (do all colleges/universities have those?). Btw, Dutch high school diplomas are good enough that Dutch colleges/universities don't have placement tests - it'd be nice if American high school diplomas could be worth something too.

 

To be clear, I don't have anything against mommy diplomas compared to US public school diplomas, it's just that someone was saying that there are universities that accept them, without any additional tests like the SAT/ACT/AP/CLEP or outside courses or *anything*. So, I was wondering if there are people who get scholarships based on just a mommy diploma.

Even community colleges who do accept people without SATs etc. still have placement tests.  My understanding is (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) but universities who do require SATs etc. still have placement tests - at least I know that my university had them. 

[ikslo]

Not to derail the thread, but please don't think you have to believe or fake belief to go to church. Reaching out to all, believers or not, is kind of the point of most churches. I'm sure there are some that are closed minded, but I think the majority realize that many people go there in search of something, not knowing what- or judging what. Being there as a community is a central tenant. It's not a "you can only be here if you're a Christian" type of thing. I assure you that everyone there has their issues and doubts and struggles. You would not be unique in any of that.

 

Would they still be open to us when my DS starts explaining to your children why he doesn't believe in God/Jesus/Religion?  I think not.  I'm not about to tell my son he has to keep his mouth shut just so we can find friends.  Sorry, but finding friends just is not a good reason IMHO to attend a church.  And I would not want to be a distraction to those who are there to worship.

[Guest]

Would they still be open to us when my DS starts explaining to your children why he doesn't believe in God/Jesus/Religion? I think not. I'm not about to tell my son he has to keep his mouth shut just so we can find friends. Sorry, but finding friends just is not a good reason IMHO to attend a church. And I would not want to be a distraction to those who are there to worship.

That's part of what youth group is for. Kids to question. All kids question to some degree. Anyone who doesn't think they do is fooling themselves. It's part of making their believes (whatever they be) their own. So kids of all types- Christian, Atheist, whatever ARE going to question the beliefs of their parents. A good church will provide a safe place- provided it's done with respect. There's a difference between respectful differing and questioning and outright hostility. You are certainly entitled to your views, but I wish people wouldn't paint churches with such a broad brush, because it's simply false. There are hundreds of thousands of not millions of churches. You can't lump them together anymore than you can people.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't get the whole hands off thing either. One of the reasons I chose homeschooling was so I could be a major part of my kids education.

I do understand it for some things. Obviously a mom with littles or in crisis mode needs her older DC to have some independence. But I homeschool so I can be hands-on everyday, interacting with my kids.

 

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Your kids are littles and presumably you're new to HS. I felt like you when I was in a similar position. But now that my kids are older and capable of being more independent, I like that I can drop my oldest off at her DE course and set my DS to working on his online math while I do my own college coursework. I'm SO GLAD to be past the whole "let's mummify a chicken" stage. BTDT and have the photos in an album to prove it.

 

 

 

I don't discount their opinion WRT to their own children. But if your kids are 6 and 2 and you're judging veteran HS moms of teens for "doing HSing wrong" (see one of the previous posts in this thread), then, yeah, I'm going to call them out over it. Let's see what tune Ms. Judgy McJudgerson is singing in 2027 if she's even still HSing at that point.

 

You are the one being judgemental and frankly rude.  She specifically said the reason why SHE homeschools.  It happens to be the reason I homeschool too and I've graduated one from homeschool high school and do not have kids who are 6 and 2.  People can have different homeschooling philosophies.  It is one of the reasons why the title of this thread says "no hate". 

[HS Mom in NC]

Food allergy/dietary restriction moms who accept an invitation for their kids to spend the day and have lunch, then don't remind the hostess the kid has food allergies/dietary restriction because they told the hostess once 6 months ago and they don't insist on sending a lunch and snack with the kid that meets the lost list of restrictions.  Do they not want their kids invited to more things in the future?  The harder to you make it, the less likely it will be to happen. No one wants to be responsible for making a child seriously ill.

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by .qp_

[Wheres Toto]

When dd was looking at universities, I looked at homeschool application requirements out of curiosity.   There were quite a few that would allow a writing sample instead of standardized test scores, and then once admitted require a placement test for math. 

[ikslo]

That's part of what youth group is for. Kids to question. All kids question to some degree. Anyone who doesn't think they do is fooling themselves. It's part of making their believes (whatever they be) their own. So kids of all types- Christian, Atheist, whatever ARE going to question the beliefs of their parents. A good church will provide a safe place- provided it's done with respect. There's a difference between respectful differing and questioning and outright hostility. You are certainly entitled to your views, but I wish people wouldn't paint churches with such a broad brush, because it's simply false. There are hundreds of thousands of not millions of churches. You can't lump them together anymore than you can people.

 

All I am saying is there is a difference between people seeking answers, and people who are just there to find friends.  What you are describing is outreach, which I completely understand is a major part of most churches, and understandable.  But I personally would not, as a non-believer, go to church to find friends and subject myself to sermons and unwanted outreach, no matter how politely presented, when there are plenty of other avenues to explore for like-minded friendships.

 

If my son asks to go to church because he is questioning his faith or lack thereof, sure, I am going to bring him so he can work it out for himself.  If my son laments not having friends, I am not going to say, "Hey, let's give church a try!  They don't believe what we do, but they are there every week!"

 

Do you see?  It's not that your church isn't awesome - I'm sure it is.  But do you really want a bunch of people who don't believe coming in and setting up shop for the purposes of hanging out? 

[ikslo]

Food allergy/dietary restriction moms who accept an invitation for their kids to spend the day and have lunch, then don't remind the hostess the kid has food allergies/dietary restriction because they told the hostess once 6 months ago and they don't insist on sending a lunch and snack with the kid that meets the lost list of restrictions.  Do they not want their kids invited to more things in the future?  The harder to you make it, the less likely it will be to happen. No one wants to be responsible for making a child seriously ill.

 

Or the moms who get offended that you brought food to their house because your DS is allergic, because you "didn't trust them."  ;)

 

Likewise, I don't get the moms who get offended when I say DS can't hang out at their house because they have a dog and DS is allergic.  And then never want to talk or hang out ever again, because apparently their house is the only place we can do that?

[Wheres Toto]

That's part of what youth group is for. Kids to question. All kids question to some degree. Anyone who doesn't think they do is fooling themselves. It's part of making their believes (whatever they be) their own. So kids of all types- Christian, Atheist, whatever ARE going to question the beliefs of their parents. A good church will provide a safe place- provided it's done with respect. There's a difference between respectful differing and questioning and outright hostility. You are certainly entitled to your views, but I wish people wouldn't paint churches with such a broad brush, because it's simply false. There are hundreds of thousands of not millions of churches. You can't lump them together anymore than you can people.

 

 I agree.  When we first started at our church (2 or 3 years ago, I don't remember exactly) my kids weren't believers but they weren't atheists either.  They just hadn't been exposed to much.   My son used to pronounce Bible with a short i in the beginning, kind of like bubble with an i.  He also found a wooden cross in a bundle of legos someone gave us and kept calling it a sword.    He also at one point decided he was more for the Greek Gods.   He has Aspergers so has a different way of looking at things.  He's learning about Christianity but I don't know that I would call him a believer.

 

Until Confirmation classes, where they really explore what they believe, I don't think they are ever asked and I know questions come up from kids of all ages because I teach Sunday School.

 

Now, I do expect my kids to hear about what and why others believe, so if I was an atheist and wanted them to be older before exposing them to religion, I would probably not take them to even the most liberal church.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know - I probably wouldn't go to a religious institution just for friendship either, unless there was some other connection. 

 

That being said - though those kinds of connections do exist in many cases - people have family or friends that go, or they are involved in some kind of community group that works through the church.  I've known non-religious people to come to our parish for all those reasons, or to hear a lecture series.  I think about a third of our parish choir would consider themselves non-Christian or maybe cultural Christians.

 

But it does seem like it can be difficult in many cases to find alternate options that provide the same advantages for meeting people.  Long term volunteer work for something you are really invested in might be the closest option.

[HS Mom in NC]

Or the moms who get offended that you brought food to their house because your DS is allergic, because you "didn't trust them."  ;)

 

Likewise, I don't get the moms who get offended when I say DS can't hang out at their house because they have a dog and DS is allergic.  And then never want to talk or hang out ever again, because apparently their house is the only place we can do that?

 

Yep.  Some people will be upset about anything.  My allergy/dietary restriction friends who do insist on sending food are the ones who get invited to everything.  The ones who don't get infrequent invitations.

 

I hear ya. We have 3 cats.  New homeschoolers in the neighborhood with 7 kids couldn't come over because 2 kids are very allergic.  I offered to meet up at the park instead for dinner.  That didn't work for them as they didn't really want to chase littles, it was hot in the summer, so after sun down was the only realistic option and they didn't want the littles to go to bed late.  At no point did they offer their house.  I guess they just didn't really want to get together. I hope they don't post online how hard it is to find friends if they turn down opportunities that could've happened with a little flexible thinking and effort in their part.

 

[Bluegoat]

Yep.  Some people will be upset about anything.  My allergy/dietary restriction friends who do insist on sending food are the ones who get invited to everything.  The ones who don't get infrequent invitations.

 

I hear ya. We have 3 cats.  New homeschoolers in the neighborhood with 7 kids couldn't come over because 2 kids are very allergic.  I offered to meet up at the park instead for dinner.  That didn't work for them as they didn't really want to chase littles, it was hot in the summer, so after sun down was the only realistic option and they didn't want the littles to go to bed late.  At no point did they offer their house.  I guess they just didn't really want to get together. I hope they don't post online how hard it is to find friends if they turn down opportunities that could've happened with a little flexible thinking and effort in their part.

 

 

I don't know.  It can be hard sometimes to find venues for socializing.  Not everyone is able to have people over or has a home where it works well.  Outdoors can be hard with weather or just with little kids.  Indoor venues are often expensive. 

 

Lack of open public spaces is a big issue with trying to develop friendships, I think.

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't know.  It can be hard sometimes to find venues for socializing.  Not everyone is able to have people over or has a home where it works well.  Outdoors can be hard with weather or just with little kids.  Indoor venues are often expensive. 

 

Lack of open public spaces is a big issue with trying to develop friendships, I think.

 

I have too much exposure to international customs to buy into that.  People with larger families, less square footage per family member, less food to share and lower standards for cleanliness (think dirt floors and dirt roads) manage to be hospitable and invite people, even strangers, into their homes to socialize.

 

I host 25-30 people regularly for family events in a 3,000 sq. foot house that also has my husband's business and our homeschool in it, which is not any greater a square foot to person ratio or convenient arrangement  than a typical homeschooling family in a typical American home inviting another typical homeschooling family over.  My brother hosts the same crowd sometimes in his 2,000 sq. ft. house and we bring chairs and tables to set up in his small backyard to handle over flow. There are homeschoolers with average families in small homes with projects and stuff all around who still invite people into their homes to socialize-I've been there and seen it myself. 

 

Even most urban environments have a park somewhere. This generation of Americans is just less willing to be out of doors than previous generations and hospitality isn't part of America's national character in general. 

[Guest]

All I am saying is there is a difference between people seeking answers, and people who are just there to find friends.  What you are describing is outreach, which I completely understand is a major part of most churches, and understandable.  But I personally would not, as a non-believer, go to church to find friends and subject myself to sermons and unwanted outreach, no matter how politely presented, when there are plenty of other avenues to explore for like-minded friendships.

 

If my son asks to go to church because he is questioning his faith or lack thereof, sure, I am going to bring him so he can work it out for himself.  If my son laments not having friends, I am not going to say, "Hey, let's give church a try!  They don't believe what we do, but they are there every week!"

 

Do you see?  It's not that your church isn't awesome - I'm sure it is.  But do you really want a bunch of people who don't believe coming in and setting up shop for the purposes of hanging out? 

 

I do get what you are saying then in that instance.

[Guest]

I have too much exposure to international customs to buy into that.  People with larger families, less square footage per family member, less food to share and lower standards for cleanliness (think dirt floors and dirt roads) manage to be hospitable and invite people, even strangers, into their homes to socialize.

 

I host 25-30 people regularly for family events in a 3,000 sq. foot house that also has my husband's business and our homeschool in it, which is not any greater a square foot to person ratio or convenient arrangement  than a typical homeschooling family in a typical American home inviting another typical homeschooling family over.  My brother hosts the same crowd sometimes in his 2,000 sq. ft. house and we bring chairs and tables to set up in his small backyard to handle over flow. There are homeschoolers with average families in small homes with projects and stuff all around who still invite people into their homes to socialize-I've been there and seen it myself. 

 

Even most urban environments have a park somewhere. This generation of Americans is just less willing to be out of doors than previous generations and hospitality isn't part of America's national character in general. 

 

I think that is a totally fair statement. That's actually one of the things I saw promoted by the whole patriarchal sect at the conferences that I did find interesting- there was a push towards being hospitable and welcoming (I'm sure in many cases a select group of invitees, but I guess we are all selective to an extent) into one's home and making the effort to have people over, frequently.

 

This is definitely something I struggle with. In this case for me the spirit definitely is willing, but the flesh is weak. I think of how tired I am, how much time it would take to get the house ship shape, what we would do, serve, etc. and find every excuse in the book not to invite people over. We always all talk about it- everyone says "Oh, we have to get together soon!" but we never do. We're lucky (my girlfriends and I) if we slip out to dinner once a month, much less any of us having a big get together. 

[poppy]

I don't know - I probably wouldn't go to a religious institution just for friendship either, unless there was some other connection. 

 

That being said - though those kinds of connections do exist in many cases - people have family or friends that go, or they are involved in some kind of community group that works through the church.  I've known non-religious people to come to our parish for all those reasons, or to hear a lecture series.  I think about a third of our parish choir would consider themselves non-Christian or maybe cultural Christians.

 

But it does seem like it can be difficult in many cases to find alternate options that provide the same advantages for meeting people.  Long term volunteer work for something you are really invested in might be the closest option.

 

I think "cultural christians' is the key word. If it feels familiar to you, it is much easier. 

 

I was raised Catholic, and later attended a UU church that was Protestant-y.  The leader was a minister, the choir sang Protestant hymns (with some words switched out). It never felt like home because it was too church-y, even though I think it MIGHT have if it had felt like "my" old church. 

[mom2att]

I host 25-30 people regularly for family events in a 3,000 sq. foot house that also has my husband's business and our homeschool in it, which is not any greater a square foot to person ratio or convenient arrangement  than a typical homeschooling family in a typical American home inviting another typical homeschooling family over.  My brother hosts the same crowd sometimes in his 2,000 sq. ft. house and we bring chairs and tables to set up in his small backyard to handle over flow. There are homeschoolers with average families in small homes with projects and stuff all around who still invite people into their homes to socialize-I've been there and seen it myself.

 

My introvert self just broke out into virtual hives imagining hosting an event for 25 people at my house. It takes me a week to recover from Thanksgiving with the five of us, plus my sister's four, plus another family of 7. And that's with all of them here for only a few hours!

 

I truly have to make myself socialize, and I do. I even lead a large homeschool group devoted to encouraging other homeschool families. Occasionally I even take a deep breath and host something at my house--but it is a BIG DEAL for me to do so.

 

Just because it's an easy thing for one person to open their home to others doesn't mean that it is equally easy for someone else, or that the intentions of the non-hoster aren't good. I'd much rather meet you at a park or over lunch at Chik-fil-a than have you invade my house for the afternoon (general you, of course--not addressing anyone specifically). Because to me it really does feel like an invasion of sorts--I have to prepare myself for it mentally, and de-stress about it afterwards.

 

[poppy]

My introvert self just broke out into virtual hives imagining hosting an event for 25 people at my house. It takes me a week to recover from Thanksgiving with the five of us, plus my sister's four, plus another family of 7. And that's with all of them here for only a few hours!

 

I truly have to make myself socialize, and I do. I even lead a large homeschool group devoted to encouraging other homeschool families. Occasionally I even take a deep breath and host something at my house--but it is a BIG DEAL for me to do so.

 

Just because it's an easy thing for one person to open their home to others doesn't mean that it is equally easy for someone else, or that the intentions of the non-hoster aren't good. I'd much rather meet you at a park or over lunch at Chik-fil-a than have you invade my house for the afternoon (general you, of course--not addressing anyone specifically). Because to me it really does feel like an invasion of sorts--I have to prepare myself for it mentally, and de-stress about it afterwards.

 

 

 I do feel the same --- but I also agree with her that ""I don't want guest because I need to much time after to recharge"  is not true at all other parts of the world, especially the developing world. It is a much more an emergent American cultural norm.

[HS Mom in NC]

My introvert self just broke out into virtual hives imagining hosting an event for 25 people at my house. It takes me a week to recover from Thanksgiving with the five of us, plus my sister's four, plus another family of 7. And that's with all of them here for only a few hours!

 

I truly have to make myself socialize, and I do. I even lead a large homeschool group devoted to encouraging other homeschool families. Occasionally I even take a deep breath and host something at my house--but it is a BIG DEAL for me to do so.

 

Just because it's an easy thing for one person to open their home to others doesn't mean that it is equally easy for someone else, or that the intentions of the non-hoster aren't good. I'd much rather meet you at a park or over lunch at Chik-fil-a than have you invade my house for the afternoon (general you, of course--not addressing anyone specifically). Because to me it really does feel like an invasion of sorts--I have to prepare myself for it mentally, and de-stress about it afterwards.

 

 

I'm an introvert too, but I still manage to do it because it's not fair to dump it all on someone else just because it doesn't suit my personal preferences, which are to stay at home and quilt at my sewing machine or read another book.  No, it's not easy for me either.  It's never easy for anyone to host a meal for 25-30 people, but I don't think that's a valid reason to never do it. I spend a couple of days mentally preparing for it and a couple of days decompressing afterwards, but I do it anyway because it's important that it be done.I don't consider my feelings about it to be the greatest good.  The greatest good is that I share the load for my extended family by hosting for family functions sometimes just like my socially anxious, introverted maternal grandmother did sometimes, and my introverted, home body mother did, and my introverted brother does, and my introverted friends do.  I don't think my personality exempts me from taking a turn sometimes.

 

Same with inviting homeschoolers over.  I don't actually need more homeschooling friends, I have plenty that suit me just fine.  But it's a good example to my children and it's a good thing to do for other homeschoolers, so I do it in spite of my feelings.

 

I have no desire whatsoever to go to the ladies' bible study at church because the content is dumbed down and trite, I have a pile of classics of Christendom I've been working my way through that are far better quality, I don't need more socializing for its own sake, etc.  But it's my responsibility to participate in church body life and get to know others even if every activity isn't something I personally want or need. That doesn't mean I go to every single thing, but it means I have to go do some of it regularly for the sake of the community itself.

 

[Guest]

I'm an introvert too, but I still manage to do it because it's not fair to dump it all on someone else just because it doesn't suit my personal preferences, which are to stay at home and quilt at my sewing machine or read another book.  No, it's not easy for me either.  It's never easy for anyone to host a meal for 25-30 people, but I don't think that's a valid reason to never do it. I spend a couple of days mentally preparing for it and a couple of days decompressing afterwards, but I do it anyway because it's important that it be done.I don't consider my feelings about it to be the greatest good.  The greatest good is that I share the load for my extended family by hosting for family functions sometimes just like my socially anxious, introverted maternal grandmother did sometimes, and my introverted, home body mother did, and my introverted brother does, and my introverted friends do.  I don't think my personality exempts me from taking a turn sometimes.

 

Same with inviting homeschoolers over.  I don't actually need more homeschooling friends, I have plenty that suit me just fine.  But it's a good example to my children and it's a good thing to do for other homeschoolers, so I do it in spite of my feelings.

 

I have no desire whatsoever to go to the ladies' bible study at church because the content is dumbed down and trite, I have a pile of classics of Christendom I've been working my way through that are far better quality, I don't need more socializing for its own sake, etc.  But it's my responsibility to participate in church body life and get to know others even if every activity isn't something I personally want or need. That doesn't mean I go to every single thing, but it means I have to go do some of it regularly for the sake of the community itself.

 

 

This is a viewpoint I would like to be more embracing of myself. Not sure if it's a generational thing, or just my self or circle, but we tend to look inwards much more than outwards. There is a tilt towards self sufficiency in all areas and I think it spills over into isolation easier than it used to. Particularly when you can meet many needs online or through media rather than seeking actual people as the case was 30 years ago. 

 

I have to think this is behind some of the divisiveness in general being seen over the last decade or so. I should probably print your post and make it my 2017 kick in the ass to be more "out" there as far a community. 

[TammyS]

 

I host 25-30 people regularly for family events in a 3,000 sq. foot house that also has my husband's business and our homeschool in it, which is not any greater a square foot to person ratio or convenient arrangement  than a typical homeschooling family in a typical American home inviting another typical homeschooling family over.

 

I literally don't know anyone with a 3000sqft house.  That is MORE than double the size of my house.

[KungFuPanda]

Those are test scores, so at that point I start to feel okay about it.  But not everyone takes those tests.  Some don't go on to college.  That's where I feel lost on the mom diplomas.  

 

I agree with this.  I'd like to get all offended that someone wouldn't automatically trust my transcript, but I've known too many kids who barely phoned in HS and got excellent Mom Grades.  These are the same kids who were incapable of producing homework in co-op classes, but magically "graduated early" from homeschool.  I get that not everyone needs to go to college, but they should have the benefit of being prepared if they choose to do so.  If bookwork falls through the cracks more often than not a homeschooled high schooler can 'graduate' with much less of an education than they would have had at an average public school.

 

Hmm, well, what is the point of a ps diploma, when you come down to it?  Neither is really what being educated is about.

 

Transcripts with input from more than one person can be a truer reflection of the student's learning outcomes.  Not every homeschooling mom assigning grades is good at being objective or assigning grade-level work to their high schooler.  I think most homeschooling moms who make it to high school and through it are probably competent and motivated, but there are those who stay the course because they can't face the school telling them how behind their child really is and that's when it gets sad.  I've seen kids graduate homeschool who would not meet local public school standards.  It's not most, but it's enough that "I" would trust a ps diploma more than a mom-issued one full of mom-only grades.

 

Every single how do I make friends ends up "at church".  I'm about to fake belief. (I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one......)

 

 

I think around here people use the UU church to fill that need.  I'm not even kidding.  No faking necessary.

[TammyS]

 I spend a couple of days mentally preparing for it and a couple of days decompressing afterwards, but I do it anyway because it's important that it be done

 

 

Why is it important that it be done?  I can't see the importance of it in itself, and I double that feeling if it's going to cost me nearly a week (as you say, days preparing and days decompressing).

 

Why not just have a potluck at a venue or everyone go to a restaurant? 

[PeachyDoodle]

Confession time... I was one of those moms who always tried to get their elementary kid into the older groups. Mostly because dd was bright and I thought she'd get more out of interacting with older kids. {ducks rotten vegetables}

 

Now that I have a middle-schooler myself, I've seen the error of my ways. Tweens and teens, especially, deserve their own space.

 

I still love working with my teen. I'm not by her side every minute, of course, but homeschooling high school is exciting in different ways than working with littles. Obviously my way isn't the only way but it is a way that I personally find enriching. For me it is the culmination of everything I have done in grade and middle school.

 

Yes.  I've gotten compliments from all of ds's professors so far on how I prepared him for college.  (He's only in his second quarter so it isn't that many professors.)  But I use the same standards of grading that I used as a professional high school teacher - though obviously only grading one student's work instead of 25.  And we used good quality curriculum with the help of SWB and other great ladies on the high school board.  Are there homeschool teachers who give A's for not much work or not hard enough work?  Of course.  Bult it is going to become very clear very quickly starting with the PSAT and SAT, the placement tests in math and English, and of courses the college courses themselves. 

Yes! As we hurtle towards high school, I am finding that I enjoy homeschooling more and more. I LOVE the conversations that are beginning to emerge with dd. My greatest fear, though, is grading her increasingly complex assignments, especially the ones that are not as straightforward, such as papers. What if I think she deserves A's but she's really doing C-quality work? And I have to put my opinion on paper and send it to colleges as proof of her education?? Yikes! I hope that before the time comes I can find some resources to guide me.

 

Things I don't get:

Crafts and other hands-on, messy, useless endeavors -- This is exactly why I outsourced preschool and brought them home for elementary!

Science experiments -- Even if I manage to have all the supplies on hand, they NEVER work!

Saxon-hate -- Saxon's methods make so much sense to me!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Confession time... I was one of those moms who always tried to get their elementary kid into the older groups. Mostly because dd was bright and I thought she'd get more out of interacting with older kids. {ducks rotten vegetables}

 

Now that I have a middle-schooler myself, I've seen the error of my ways. Tweens and teens, especially, deserve their own space.

 

 

Yes! As we hurtle towards high school, I am finding that I enjoy homeschooling more and more. I LOVE the conversations that are beginning to emerge with dd. My greatest fear, though, is grading her increasingly complex assignments, especially the ones that are not as straightforward, such as papers. What if I think she deserves A's but she's really doing C-quality work? And I have to put my opinion on paper and send it to colleges as proof of her education?? Yikes! I hope that before the time comes I can find some resources to guide me.

 

Things I don't get:

Crafts and other hands-on, messy, useless endeavors -- This is exactly why I outsourced preschool and brought them home for elementary!

Science experiments -- Even if I manage to have all the supplies on hand, they NEVER work!

Saxon-hate -- Saxon's methods make so much sense to me!

I send my dd's papers to a boardie who is an English teacher for grading. 

 

I was so nervous when ds took his placement tests at college.  And I was so relieved when he tested into all college level classes!  I knew cognitively that following SWB's recommendations meant that we were doing rigorous work, but that made me relax. I'm so much more relaxed with dd while following the same general course recommendations. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[KungFuPanda]

I literally don't know anyone with a 3000sqft house.  That is MORE than double the size of my house.

 

Nobody's house is too small to entertain! Have you seen the Ikea catalog?  I think some people just don't LIKE entertaining, or they worry what other people will think about their home or their stuff, but you can entertain in almost any space.  Nobody wants 20 feral preschoolers tearing up their home, but I wouldn't want that in any size house.  People will make room if they want to.  

[Wheres Toto]

I have a 750 square foot house. It is very hard to have people over unless we can be outside. I've had very few people over since homeschooling buy my oldest regularly had friends over, but without parents. Kids don't bother me, parents judge.

[Guest]

Or, you do it for years and years and don't get any of it back...my hospitality is fairly selective these days. If you've invited us over more than once, you stay on the list. If you turned up and drank my tea and ate my cake and told me your problems and never once returned the favour ? Out you go, lol

 

I'm hard these days. I did have a good decade of being the 'giving' homeschooler before that though. We've always lived in tiny houses and they have often been very, very full.

 

I'll try hospitality again once we've stopped homeschooling.

Yeah, there's definitely that too!! I wondered later if they were coming out of obligation or something since we were never invited to something at their homes. Before I had three kids I loved hosting things, but yeah it wasn't recirprocated often.

 

I will say that dh gets invites for us to things from employees fairly often, but they always tend to have a sort of "suck up" ness to them as he's the boss and I think that's behind a lot of invites - maybe they're afraid to leave him out. Plus it's just an awkward thing at that point for us to go to one and then not someone else's and weddings and what not, so we just don't go. But apart from them I couldn't even tell you the last time a friend of ours had an event. Everyone is so tied up with their own kids- it just doesn't happen ! I guess that's sad that the only invites we get are from dh's reports. Doesn't speak well to us, does it. I swear we're really nice!!!

[Rosie_0801]

Nobody's house is too small to entertain!  

 

Sure! You can all come over and sit on my bed, because that is the only place to sit except for dd's bed! 

 

:001_unsure:

[KungFuPanda]

I actually think that a hospitality culture in America is VERY regional.  I grew up in an area that was SUPER hospitable and now live in one where it's not really a thing.  My mother always invited friends and family and never turned away a pop-in.  People were always offered a drink and at least a snack; usually an invitation to dinner.  It's what we did for entertainment in the boondocks!  

Edited January 17, 2017 by KungFuPanda

[LucyStoner]

Here's another I don't get: Statements of Faith. I sort of understand people are looking for a "tribe", but good grief, even a church doesn't require you to swear on a belief system to go and enjoy the sermon or talk to people there. And they tend to get icky, like the one here that wants to know what you're doing in your bedroom is holy and legit. Ew. Not something I need to share to make sure my kid has access to sports or robotics, tyvm.

 

Which............also goes hand in hand when people are upset there are no high schoolers milling about. Can't much complain when you don't want to associate with people who won't sign the box! We find other venues for our kids, like putting them back in school or DE.

I get them in that I understand the motivations that lead to groups to have them. That said, I am so completely opposed to statements of faith, I would never join a group that required one. Not even one that I wrote myself and was lockstep with my values and beliefs.