Shiller Math?? Anyone used it? Reviews, thoughts, tips?

[TheReader]

I think the title says it all. :) 

 

I'm looking for a new math for my son, as we finish up Miquon. He has learning challenges, so the multi-sensory approach is a requirement for him, not an option. The Shiller Math curriculum looks good to me, like it would really work for him, but before I click purchase for that much $$, I'd like to hear if anyone has used it. 

 

Anyone? What did you like about it? Dislike? Tips? 

 

Just hoping for some feedback before spending so much. :) Thanks!

[Syllieann]

We've been using it for a few months. So far I like it. It does a great job in terms of multisensory teaching. I use it with my daughter, who has the attention span of a goat. I suspect she would get an ADD diagnosis if I had her evaluated. The variety of manipulatives and the spiral nature are what make it work for us. I use the digital version, which costs $85 at CBD. I already owned or could easily substitute most of the manipulatives. The rest I made from craft foam. The biggest dislike for most people will probably be that the parent needs to actively teach for the majority of the lesson. And of course the huge price tag for the hard copy kit. If you want more info on diy manipulatives, just ask and I can expand on that.

 

My kids all like the songs. I improvise some dance moves to get the whole body involved when we do the songs. The conceptual teaching is strong, especially wrt place value. I love that I can move on to an activity on a different topic if something doesn't click right away. I return to it the next day and it has often magically sorted itself out in her head overnight. Kit 1 has a workbook for the student. It has just the portion the child needs to see without the dialogue. I just keep the lesson book on my iPad and print out the workbook for DD. I understand that this is a change from previous versions, so keep in mind that it has changed if you are reading older reviews. I believe kit 2 is that way also, but the fractions kit does not yet have the workbook version.

 

Shiller kit 1 (not sure about kit 2) is not as strong in word problems as math mammoth or Singapore, but I think it is sufficient. I am not even sure if I believe that a heavy emphasis on word problems teaches something in and of itself or if it merely confirms that the child has a true understanding of the material. I am leaning toward the latter, at least for elementary math, and don't supplement.

 

The activities vary greatly in how long they take. I just use a timer as the author recommends. I keep a review board in our math area to do just one problem each day on anything that isn't rock solid. Doing it that way means we rarely need to revisit lessons after the review tests. The scope and sequence is a bit different than others. It holds off on time and money a bit until a relatively good understanding of the decimal system is in place. I don't have strong feelings on this, but if you are required to submit test scores, it might matter to you.

 

The author takes kind of a relaxed attitude toward memorizing the facts. Shiller doesn't cover addition strategies the way that some of the other conceptual math programs do. I feel comfortable teaching these strategies myself, but if you don't feel comfortable with that, you may want to supplement with something like Kate's "Addition Facts that Stick" or "2+2 is not 5."

[TheReader]

thank you, this is very helpful! 

 

We'd be starting with Kit 2 (I had hi go through the Book 3 diagnostic tests yesterday, and he got all of it except things we haven't covered, mainly he needs a refresher on Roman Numerals, and I have totally neglected calendar teaching). 

 

We already do a very teacher-heavy school day, since he isn't really reading independently yet, so that part is just part of the deal with him and not a deterrent for me. Hopefully eventually he'll be independent, his reading is making gains, but for now I expect to be heavily involved. 

 

Some of the manipulatives that come up in the diagnostic tests are things I don't quite know how to use -- the number bank, for ex. Are those explained somewhere within the materials, do you know? Or they are just literally a stack of number cards that instead of writing the changes, the student swaps out/adds/borrows the numbers to work the problem? There were a few problems in the diagnostic test we skipped or altered just due to not having/knowing how to improvise the specific thing being referenced....

 

I"m thinking I'll show my husband and review what manipulatives are included vs what we already have, and we'll purchase pretty soon. We just started our last book of Miquon so we have some time, but we also have a LOT of manipulatives already so may not need the full kit. That's a good point. Then we could get a book at a time as needed. 

 

Thanks for this really helpful review; it's the most thorough thing I've read so far from someone not affiliated with the company :) I appreciate it!

[Syllieann]

You can see what the manipulatives are called on these pages.

Kit 1: https://www.shillermath.com/samples/KitIThumbnails.pdf

Kit 2: https://www.shillermath.com/samples/KitIIThumbnails.pdf

 

If you start with kit 2 you shouldn't strictly need the kit 1 manipulatives. If you do want them though, the numbers bank stuff could be easily printed on card stock.

[FeliciaG]

We just found out our 11 year old daughter has dyscalculia.  We'd like to purchase the Shiller math program but aren't sure what to start with, as she still has difficulty with basic math facts.  Does Shiller offer a placement test to help us out?  Thanks!

[FeliciaG]

Thanks for the advice, Paradox5!  My only thought was that I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars (by the time I convert it to Canadian currency) if it's really just basics.  I'll have to see if there is a table of contents mentioned in the first part.  I agree with you though, my daughter definitely remembers more when facts are paired with strategies.  

 

[Syllieann]

21 hours ago, FeliciaG said:

We just found out our 11 year old daughter has dyscalculia.  We'd like to purchase the Shiller math program but aren't sure what to start with, as she still has difficulty with basic math facts.  Does Shiller offer a placement test to help us out?  Thanks!

You can buy the diagnostic tests for download.  They are refundable if you end up purchasing a kit.  I guess you would want to buy the math 1 diagnostic tests and then purchase kit 2 if she makes it through all the kit 1 tests.  https://explore.shillermath.com/collections/diagnostic-tests. My review above was about kit 1.  I am not sure if everything I said would also apply to kit 2. 

Have you looked at Ronit Bird?  It might be more targeted for what you are seeking and it's certainly more economical than buying two Shiller kits.  http://www.ronitbird.com. We do not have a dyscalculia struggle in my home, but if you hear over to the learning challenges board you should find plenty of info on math for dyscalculia.  https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/forum/6-the-learning-challenges-board/

36 minutes ago, Paradox5 said:

Hyjack!

How does Shiller Math compare to Right Start? They both seem similar in my mind.

Felicia, if I were you, I would just start at the beginning and go quickly with anything she already knows.

About fact strategies, those confused every one of my kids, even my gifted guy. They would rather just memorize the facts. The startegies added an extra layer of thought like a flashcard with an apple AND the letter a. It is an extra step. Just my kids, though. YMMV.

I used RS A with the same child I did Shiller with.  I liked Shiller a lot better because my dd thought the "games" in RS were just modified flashcards that took a lot more time, and she was right.  I found the abacus to be a less effective teaching tool than cuisinaire rods or base ten flats.  In Shiller the kids physically pick up tiles and trade them in for tens, hundreds, etc.  It is so much more intuitive.

[FeliciaG]

I will definitely purchase the tests, thank you!  

Wow!  I just looked at the Ronit Bird website and there is so much I want to order!!  Thanks for the info 🙂

 

[Paige]

You could email Larry Shiller personally and ask.  I bet he'd be helpful. Shiller doesn't get a lot of love here but I really really liked it for young kids. It's time and parent intensive, however. 

I'm not sure how it compares with Right Start but I know they are the same general style. 

I don't know where your DD is but the first level starts very, very, basic. It's like for a 4 yr old basic but it increases in difficulty pretty quickly and it would be easy to skip some lessons and go faster. They have some manipulatives with the program but I really prefer C-rods to the ones they had (at least what they had about 10 years ago!).

[Paige]

2 hours ago, Syllieann said:

You can buy the diagnostic tests for download.  They are refundable if you end up purchasing a kit.  I guess you would want to buy the math 1 diagnostic tests and then purchase kit 2 if she makes it through all the kit 1 tests.  https://explore.shillermath.com/collections/diagnostic-tests. My review above was about kit 1.  I am not sure if everything I said would also apply to kit 2. 

Have you looked at Ronit Bird?  It might be more targeted for what you are seeking and it's certainly more economical than buying two Shiller kits.  http://www.ronitbird.com. We do not have a dyscalculia struggle in my home, but if you hear over to the learning challenges board you should find plenty of info on math for dyscalculia.  https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/forum/6-the-learning-challenges-board/

I used RS A with the same child I did Shiller with.  I liked Shiller a lot better because my dd thought the "games" in RS were just modified flashcards that took a lot more time, and she was right.  I found the abacus to be a less effective teaching tool than cuisinaire rods or base ten flats.  In Shiller the kids physically pick up tiles and trade them in for tens, hundreds, etc.  It is so much more intuitive.

I agree that Shiller's games are actually not bad. My kids hated games that weren't really games. 

[HomeschoolMama5]

I just thought I would give an updated review of Shiller Math. I tried the program for 3.5 weeks with my 3 children (3rd, 5th, and 6th grades). My youngest has dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia and all three of my children have a Montessori education background. So this seemed like an obvious choice for us. However, it was not a good fit for us. 

The workbooks are just plain boring for the kids. And there are a lot of misprints. When I mentioned the misprints to the owner of the company, he told me "It happens. We fix them in future prints, but I can always reprint from their website. And feel free to point out the mistakes to them so they can fix them." 1. I am not an employee so I won't be doing the editing for the company for free. 2. I paid $$$ for the kits which included the workbooks so I'm not interested in printing from the website. 3. My child already has learning difficulties and now I'm handing him a work book with printing errors too??? That doesn't make sense. 

The workbook requires a lot of work from the parent so this is not a good curriculum for you if you want to encourage independent work in your children. The lessons are strangely organized in a manner that does not flow well from one lesson to another. And the lessons do not create a mastery of a skill. It is a quick introduction to the skill and then the lesson is over. It is up to the parent to extend the lesson to mastery. With multiple kids and multiple subjects to teach in a day, that is not something I have the time to do. Isn't that why we purchase curriculum in the first place?

The Shiller Learning website mentions a 30 day money back guarantee so I contacted the owner again and returned our materials. However, I was refunded $124 less than my original payment because I had downloaded some materials from their site. If they want me to truly try the curriculum, shouldn't I also try the songs (and the worksheet pages he told me to print)??? My children and I listened to 3-5 songs one day because we just needed a good fun dance party. The songs were NOT catchy and my kids didn't learn anything from them. So, no, we didn't find them helpful at all. And yet, I was charged $124 for them. Wow! 

Perhaps this program works for some children, but there were way too many things wrong for it to work for us. And I found the customer service (from the owner himself) to be extremely lacking.