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IEW, written expression disorder/dysgraphia, frustration


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I've been here talking about my youngest and dyslexia recently, but I need to shift gears for a moment.

 

My oldest (11) really struggles with writing. We've tried several things and for the last 1.5 years we have been using IEW. She is currently about halfway through SICC-A. She doesn't love it, but it's really been the best thing for her as it breaks down the process into manageable steps. That said, she writes the shortest compositions imaginable. We are currently working on writing from stories and she came to me today asking for help because she couldn't get all of the dress ups and sentence openers in. It's not that she doesn't know how to use them. She can't get them in because she is writing so very little that there is just no place to put them! I tried helping, but there just isn't enough there to work with. When I tried pointing that out to her, she got really weepy. It's not that she isn't trying, it's just really really hard for her. Also, it's not that she is struggling just with the fictional assignments, report writing of any length is hard too. Anyone have any ideas on how I can help her expand her compositions?

 

As further information: She types reasonably well. She also has access to Evernote and can dictate her writing if she chooses. The physical act of writing is no longer a struggle and she frequently chooses to hand write her rough draft. She doesn't struggle with outlines. She simply (ha ha, not simply at all) has a mental block when it comes time to compose. She says she can't get the words to come out like they are in her head.

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I've been here talking about my youngest and dyslexia recently, but I need to shift gears for a moment.

 

My oldest (11) really struggles with writing. We've tried several things and for the last 1.5 years we have been using IEW. She is currently about halfway through SICC-A. She doesn't love it, but it's really been the best thing for her as it breaks down the process into manageable steps. That said, she writes the shortest compositions imaginable. We are currently working on writing from stories and she came to me today asking for help because she couldn't get all of the dress ups and sentence openers in. It's not that she doesn't know how to use them. She can't get them in because she is writing so very little that there is just no place to put them! I tried helping, but there just isn't enough there to work with. When I tried pointing that out to her, she got really weepy. It's not that she isn't trying, it's just really really hard for her. Also, it's not that she is struggling just with the fictional assignments, report writing of any length is hard too. Anyone have any ideas on how I can help her expand her compositions?

 

As further information: She types reasonably well. She also has access to Evernote and can dictate her writing if she chooses. The physical act of writing is no longer a struggle and she frequently chooses to hand write her rough draft. She doesn't struggle with outlines. She simply (ha ha, not simply at all) has a mental block when it comes time to compose. She says she can't get the words to come out like they are in her head.

Meaning she can't figure out how to accurately describe the feelings/thoughts in her head, or she cannot remember how to spell the words well enough to write them down, or she can't actually think of any words at all, or...?

 

Could you brainstorm with her?  Read information together, compose the outlines together, work through a rough draft together, then gently help her add to the material.

 

Oh, do you have the IEW A Word Write Now reference book?  It seems steep at $35 but we got ours when we ordered IEW TWSS the new version and I would absolutely pay that for this book.  It has tons of words organized by emotions/thoughts, etc.  It has really boosted the variety of words my children use to incorporate into their writing.  If you don't have it, and can afford it, get that book then maybe play some games using different words in those lists until she gets comfortable looking them up and using a more expanded vocabulary.

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I would also continue to help her, and would give her as many props to help as possible, until she has more confidence in her ability to write independently.   I remember one of my kids had the same issue, where there just wasn't enough content to add all of the dress ups, so I would suggest an additional sentence within the paragraph, sometimes intentionally giving them a sentence that worked well with the dress ups they were missing.

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She is 11.  I have an almost 11 yo with dysgraphia, and we also use IEW.  Here's what I do with my kid (which may work for yours):

 

1. Tell her that she is practicing a skill to improve.  "Today we are going to practice a paragraph using an opener and two dress-ups."  Sometimes there is anxiety in my kid about having TO WRITE.  I don't need him to come up with content. I need him to work on the mechanics of how to put something together.  Telling him that he is practicing and that I next xyz specific thing out of him helps.

 

2. The fact that she can both type with ease and come up with an outline is huge for a kid with dysgraphia. It sounds like her hump is in moving from outline to composition?  Brain storm with her.  Tell her what she needs to start with and go through the process with her.  "Ok, first, let's start with an opener. I see on your outline that you wrote abc.  How could we turn that in to a sentence? Great, now let's see what we need to include in our paragraph---1 -ly opener and 1 who/which. Do you want to try the -ly opener? Which do you want to use?" Let her come up with the words, but narrate the process for her so she doesn't get lost.  I think she'll be able to get this. :)  She just needs more scaffolding.

 

3. When there is a specific word or grammar gap, like with coming up with an adverb, I ask questions.  "Ok, she fell down the hill.....HOW did she fall down the hill? What are some adverbs we can think of?"  Because my almost 11yo is a boy, I inject a lot of humor and sometimes we have dramatic reenactments. The point is that I'm trying to get his brain to stay focused on the task rather than move off into emotions.

 

Interestingly, using FLL3 really helped us in IEW SWI-A.  If you have that hanging around, you might pull it out.  FLL3 helped him figure out the function of words and how to use and change them.

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My son was tutored by an IEW certified O-G reading specialist for two years using IEW's thematic writing materials.  The tutor was serious about DS never touching a pencil, so the parents were expected to scribe everything.  Once the KWO was completed, DS typed his work and we edited together.  Eventually, DS wrote his own paragraphs.

 

The pay side of the Dyslexic Advantage blog contains a wonderful webinar given by Dr. Charles Haynes.  The webinar discusses the subskills required for writing, and he provides useful pre-writing skills to help overcome word retrieval issues.  I believe that the Haynes webinar supports IEW's method for brainstorming elements of style very well.    

 

Depending upon the assignment, DS uses mindmapping sw.  My favorite mindmapping app is Inspiration for the iPad.  Maybe explore mindmapping as an option.  

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Meaning she can't figure out how to accurately describe the feelings/thoughts in her head, or she cannot remember how to spell the words well enough to write them down, or she can't actually think of any words at all, or...?

 

Yes? Mostly the first and the last. Spelling is a problem, but we don't make a big deal out of it. She has an amazing vocabulary and she and I both agree that it is much better to incorrectly spell a great word than to correctly spell a mediocre word. She had a good laugh while trying to get Microsoft Word to recognize "faucet" last week because her spelling was so far from correct. She has a pretty good sense of humor about that kind of thing. She's working through Barton (since I have it for her sister now) and so we'll see if that helps spelling (fingers crossed). In regards, to the first and the last.... I'm always so grateful when I post here because everyone helps me make connections that I somehow failed to notice on my own.  She struggles with words for thoughts and feelings even when not writing. She has an encyclopedic knowledge when it comes to science and she can summarize a book like nobody's business, but she really struggles with telling you how she feels about things (even the book she was just so excited about that she told you every detail of). If you ask her whether she likes or dislikes something, or why she enjoyed a movie, she can't really express those kinds of things. Last night she was really frustrated trying to explain why she doesn't enjoy playing the piano anymore. The words get stuck. I don't know how to help with that. She'd be a great newspaper journalist... The facts, nothing but the facts and quick and to the point. That kind of writing really isn't conducive to dress ups. KWIM?

 

Could you brainstorm with her?  Read information together, compose the outlines together, work through a rough draft together, then gently help her add to the material.

 

Yes, I definitely can and for sure need to. I have a hard time not completely taking over and then feeling like it's more my product than hers. That is discouraging for both of us. This is definitely something I need to work on in myself.
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I would help her write the essays until she is more comfortable writing more on her own. Andrew Pudewa says that you cannot help a student too much - and that when the student no longer needs the help, they will tell you.

 

Yes, I remember him saying that and I repeat it to myself frequently. It was such a relief when I first heard him say that. She definitely needs more scaffolding. I see that now. She was doing really well when we were working together more. I backed off too quickly.

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She is 11.  I have an almost 11 yo with dysgraphia, and we also use IEW.  Here's what I do with my kid (which may work for yours):

 

1. Tell her that she is practicing a skill to improve.  "Today we are going to practice a paragraph using an opener and two dress-ups."  Sometimes there is anxiety in my kid about having TO WRITE.  I don't need him to come up with content. I need him to work on the mechanics of how to put something together.  Telling him that he is practicing and that I next xyz specific thing out of him helps.

 

2. The fact that she can both type with ease and come up with an outline is huge for a kid with dysgraphia. It sounds like her hump is in moving from outline to composition?  Brain storm with her.  Tell her what she needs to start with and go through the process with her.  "Ok, first, let's start with an opener. I see on your outline that you wrote abc.  How could we turn that in to a sentence? Great, now let's see what we need to include in our paragraph---1 -ly opener and 1 who/which. Do you want to try the -ly opener? Which do you want to use?" Let her come up with the words, but narrate the process for her so she doesn't get lost.  I think she'll be able to get this. :)  She just needs more scaffolding.

 

3. When there is a specific word or grammar gap, like with coming up with an adverb, I ask questions.  "Ok, she fell down the hill.....HOW did she fall down the hill? What are some adverbs we can think of?"  Because my almost 11yo is a boy, I inject a lot of humor and sometimes we have dramatic reenactments. The point is that I'm trying to get his brain to stay focused on the task rather than move off into emotions.

 

Interestingly, using FLL3 really helped us in IEW SWI-A.  If you have that hanging around, you might pull it out.  FLL3 helped him figure out the function of words and how to use and change them.

 

These are some great ideas. She has decided she CAN'T write and so I think part of it is just overcoming that idea. She is amazing at so many things that having this be hard makes it seem impossible. She's definitely of the mindset that things that don't come easy, don't need to come at all. I wish that were true.

 

Yes moving from outline to composition is the breakdown point. I think some of the trouble might be that she tries to get her ideas down and then go back afterwards and see what dress ups still need adding. I think that makes it harder because it becomes part of the editing process instead. She then has to change something and it was hard enough getting into print in the first place.

 

I'm going to really give number 3 a shot. We could use some levity in the whole writing process.  :)

 

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My son was tutored by an IEW certified O-G reading specialist for two years using IEW's thematic writing materials.  The tutor was serious about DS never touching a pencil, so the parents were expected to scribe everything.  Once the KWO was completed, DS typed his work and we edited together.  Eventually, DS wrote his own paragraphs.

 

The pay side of the Dyslexic Advantage blog contains a wonderful webinar given by Dr. Charles Haynes.  The webinar discusses the subskills required for writing, and he provides useful pre-writing skills to help overcome word retrieval issues.  I believe that the Haynes webinar supports IEW's method for brainstorming elements of style very well.    

 

Depending upon the assignment, DS uses mindmapping sw.  My favorite mindmapping app is Inspiration for the iPad.  Maybe explore mindmapping as an option.  

 

I will check these resources out. Going to look for that webinar tonight in fact. Word retrieval is really hard. It was one of the things that came up in the psychologists evaluation that made me want to punch the doctor. She concluded that my daughter's inability to come up with a list of names quickly/at all was because she was homeschooled and didn't know anyone. ??? We don't live in a bubble.

 

Edited to add: Yay, going to get more use out of my Dyslexic Advantage membership!

Edited by ZaraBellesMom
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For words, allow her to use the IEW portable wall and a digital thesaurus app.  It's been awhile so I'm not recalling very well, but IEW provides word lists with their materials.  Make a copy and keep it front and center so that she can refer to it when she writes.

 

She has the portable walls and it does help some. I've put a thesaurus app on the iPad so she can speak words into it and get synonyms etc (since spelling is sometimes a glitch). These are great ideas. Keep them coming.  :)

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I really, really agree with Heathmomster's tips on scaffolding and your realization/conclusion that it's better to bring it back in. You really can't do too much. Like all the way through high school. Just keep doing it. Have her do her college papers herself. Until then, this is not a test. It's just more and more practice.

 

My dd has the word retrieval issues, and they're nasty. I used to post on the board that it was like great drops of blood, like Jesus in the Garden, when she would try to write. I kid you note. Google site search those terms and my username and see, lol. And it was really about that age that it peaked at exasperation! Then we started doing Heathermomster's metronome exercises, and things improved. 

 

Now MAYBE things improved because our tech approach improved. Maybe they improved because she turned a corner developmentally (turning 13). Maybe it was a variety of things. But DEFINITELY doing Heathermomster's stuff helped, at least the way we did them (site search for the threads of what we did), and the cost is FREE. It really can't hurt to try. Free, might see a result, and you'd know in 1-2 months if it's worth it. If it's hard, you'll know you're onto something.

 

I would hold her hand and help her and bring her tea and snacks. Don't be afraid to be supportive. On the other hand, for my dd it was just HARD and still is. She needed a very quiet, removed space to work, a space with NO distractions. Meds can help. Like seriously, if she's not on meds and has the ADHD diagnosis, consider meds. Absolute quiet and low stim (visual) can help. Headphones with music while they work can help. Like you may have to bend a lot. 

 

But really, don't be afraid to be kind. Maybe, by some mercy, things will come together and click over the next few years. They usually do. Somewhere between 13 and 15 or 16 it seems to come together for kids, even kids with really long lists and sad stories. I can't say whether that's because of the interventions or in spite. I would try some things, make some changes, but also just believe that it will improve over time. That can allow you to be kind and even maybe spit on stupid or worthless assignments. My dd was so, so, so very horrible with pointless assignments. It's an ADHD thing. No audience, no point. When I got that hyper-condensing from her, it usually meant the curriculum wasn't a good fit. I know people swear by IEW, but those people often have boys. You might consider a radical change. I'm not saying it's no good for girls, but I'm saying I would consider a change. Do something way out there. Like don't even write idiotic paragraphs and narratives. Go read science essays and good magazines and discuss. Go write recipes. My dd spent a year writing fan fiction, and tonight she had her first dinner with a creative writing group at the college. She's over the moon. 

 

My dd wasn't into IEW writing, because that's not who she is. She can do the boring stuff, but because we approached it in a way that fits her the writing SOUNDS like her. She can write like a lawyer. She can write like Tolkien. It's astonishing. She writes like what she was reading and what we were analyzing. I wouldn't keep her in stuff that is uninspiring. She could be writing ANYTHING and have it be adequate right now.

 

I do think WWS can be sort of cover your butt for these skills. I would do it in late junior high or high school. Until then, I suggest you have an insane amount of fun with writing and toss anything that kills the joy.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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Seriously, look at getting A Word Write Now.  Since she has trouble labeling emotions/feelings, it would potentially be an awesome resource.  The lists are broken down baicaly by emotions, whether they are nouns or verbs or adjectives or whatever.  You could sit with her and while she is writing maybe she is trying to come up with a way to express an emotion.  You could pull out this reference book and go through the table of contents listing general emotions until you find one she thinks might fit.  Turn to that page and there are a zillion words on there that tie in with that basic emotion.  Work through the list.  Talk about the different nuances.  Pick one that you think might fit what she is wanting to write about and let her chew on it a bit, insert it in her writing, try it on for size.  Maybe even come up with some that aren't there.  It leaves space to add more.  It might help her to think she is even adding to her resource book for future writing.

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The funny thing with DS is that he can rewrite and narrate now without difficulty. His sentence structure and vocab are very good. One of my college friends is teaching his Early American Lit class, and she calls me to say son's writing is wow at times. For DS, the issue is sequence and organization where he must come up with a thesis and prove it. When he writes from his head following a prompt, he is amazing.

 

The first year with IEW, he figured things out by March and I no longer had to scribe. I rarely scribed his 2nd year of IEW.

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Also, remember that the curriculum is a tool, not a dictator. If she is struggling to fit the dress ups into her paragraph, you could change the assignment to eliminate some of what she needs to add. It's helpful to practice them, but it is not really necessary to cram them into a paragraph where they do not belong.

 

I haven't used a full IEW program myself, but back in third grade DD's university model classical school taught with IEW. I found it incredibly frustrating to try to help her fit dress-ups into a paragraph that didn't really need them, just because it was the assignment. Remember that you are the teacher, and you can modify the assignments to make them appropriate for your daughter. Perhaps if the lesson asks her to use five dress ups (just making up a number), you could highlight two of them that you want her to use for sure and tell her to use the others only if they fit well in her paragraph.

 

You could also practice the dress ups on their own, without requiring them to fit into a paragraph. For example, just assign her to write one stand-alone sentence using one dress up. Or YOU write a sentence for her to add a dress up to. Separate that skill from the skill of composition. It may be awhile before she can dress up her own sentences, but that's okay -- she has years to go on developing writing skills.

 

You can also set individual goals for her and then work toward them instead of working toward completing the curriculum as written. I can't recall what DS's writing goals are in his IEP, but they are defined and specific. You could set a reasonable goal for her -- whatever you think she needs to work on and could make progress on -- and work toward it for a period of time, IEP goals are annual, but you could make three-month goal to shoot for. Then use the curriculum to progress toward the goals, instead of just following the curriculum from beginning to end as someone else designed it.

 

And, yes, sit with her while she writes. If she gets stuck, give her a word if she is drawing a blank, or even the first half of a sentence and have her write the second half. She might need to do more with you and less independently.

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