Can we talk jumping through hoops vs. CC? (UC related)

[Roadrunner]

I have decided to start a file on course descriptions so when time comes, I don't panic. So far it's just aops math for us. Could anybody help me out and PMing me a sample of any aops math course description so I can model the ones we need on it?. I have their syllabus, but I am having a hard time deciding what to include from there. Any example will be greatly appreciated.

[MarkT]

BTW, thank you everyone for participating. I have always dreamed of having a separate forum for CA homeschoolers to share their state specific issues. While living in CO, it was so much more common for students to attend the UC equivalents there. CA definitely has its own unique challenges and benefits which young college students must navigate if they want to remain in state.

These CA posts have been helpful to others as well.  My DS wanted to look at CA UC or SLO but at $60K / year for out of state it ain't happening. I learned that by the many links posted here.

[Arcadia]

My DS wanted to look at CA UC or SLO but at $60K / year for out of state it ain't happening. I learned that by the many links posted here.

Calpoly SLO cost of attendance is $37,308 for out of state.

https://financialaid.calpoly.edu/_finaid/coa1617.html

 

My kids found the campus too small and the downtown area too quiet but my kids are used to noisy densely populated big cities. We kind of memorized the campus map within an hour. Food on campus is on the high side but we were paying full price and not meal plan price.

My husband was conducting job interviews there so we tag along.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[MarkT]

Calpoly SLO cost of attendance is $37,308 for out of state.

https://financialaid.calpoly.edu/_finaid/coa1617.html

 

My kids found the campus too small and the downtown area too quiet but my kids are used to noisy densely populated big cities. We kind of memorized the campus map within an hour. Food on campus is on the high side but we were paying full price and not meal plan price.

My husband was conducting job interviews there so we tag along.

Do they ever give merit aid to OOS?

I need below 30K / year. 

 

DS likes small.

[daijobu]

I have decided to start a file on course descriptions so when time comes, I don't panic. So far it's just aops math for us. Could anybody help me out and PMing me a sample of any aops math course description so I can model the ones we need on it?. I have their syllabus, but I am having a hard time deciding what to include from there. Any example will be greatly appreciated.

This is pretty much lifted verbatim from their website:  

 

Introduction to Geometry

 

Topics covered in the book include similar triangles, congruent triangles, quadrilaterals, polygons, circles, power of a point, three-dimensional geometry, and transformations.

 

Text: Introduction to Geometry by Richard Rusczyk, Art of Problem Solving (AoPS).

 

PreCalculus

 

Introduction and evaluation of trigonometric functions, trigonometric identities, geometry with trigonometry, parametric equations, special coordinate systems, complex numbers, exponential form of complex numbers, De Moivre's Theorem, roots of unity, geometry with complex numbers, two-dimensional and three-dimensional vectors and matrices, determinants, dot and cross product, applications of vectors and matrices to geometry.

 

Text:  Art of Problem Solving, Precalculus by Richard Rusczyk

 

etc.

[quark]

RR I used descriptions similar to what was on AoPS's site. No need to overthink this! :)

[Arcadia]

Do they ever give merit aid to OOS?

From CSUmentor, apparently not

"Percent of scholarship aid awarded to out-of-state students:0%"

http://www.csumentor.edu/campustour/undergraduate/26/cal_poly_san_luis_obispo/cal_poly_san_luis_obispo4.html

However no harm emailing and ask.

 

There are private scholarships for calpoly students though

http://www.giving.calpoly.edu/scholarships-uw

 

The campus is small and has few asians. We really stood out while we were there. People were MYOB and friendly and not loud. We felt relatively safe there.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[Laurel-in-CA]

These CA posts have been helpful to others as well.  My DS wanted to look at CA UC or SLO but at $60K / year for out of state it ain't happening. I learned that by the many links posted here.

 

There's a big discussion right now about the UC voting to cap out of state admissions @ 20% of incoming freshman (except for UCLA, Berkley and San Diego, which are already over that #) starting next year. Many residents are afraid that too many out of state applicants are making it harder and harder for in-state students to find places. And tuition is going to start going up again.

[madteaparty]

I read that AP scores are more sought after than DE by some schools, because it's easier to compare one kid to another and harder to know the quality of a particular class taken. So maybe for UCs that isn't the problem, but when kids try for different options (maybe some reach schools, some UC...), then it becomes harder to seek out a strategy. And for those of us who won't know exactly where we land because finances are a big part of the equation, the flexibility is even more important.

Definitely the foreign schools. Makes sense, because how can they expected to know the thousands of US college and community colleges.

[Laura in CA]

UCSD is one of those notoriously sticklers for a-g requirements by-the-book, aren't they? do we know anyone IRL or on the boards admitted to UCSD - or is it not as holistic and open to homeschoolers as others of the UC schools?

I forget the exact numbers (I could look up my notes, but you get the idea), but when I talked on the phone 3 yrs ago with UCSD's admissions officer for homeschoolers (who was also the officer for international students), she told me they had something like 80,000 applicants for freshman admission, with no independent (PSA/R-4) homeschoolers among them. Except for my son. I find that hard to believe, but that's what she said. I do know that UCSD's admissions process isn't holistic like Berkeley's is (as evidenced by quark's son and my son being invited to interview for the Regent's and Chancellors' Scholarship at Berkeley, despite being nontraditional, outside-the-box applicants). As a PP says, we'll find out soon!

 

ETA: maybe she said there were no other independent hs'ers ADMITTED that year. That makes more sense ... I'd have to dig out my notes. At any rate, they were obviously unused to us. But very willing to be educated about the CA education code.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Laura in CA

[Laura in CA]

Do they ever give merit aid to OOS?

I need below 30K / year. 

 

DS likes small.

 

No, b/c the whole reason UC/CSU have started to admit OOS/foreign students is for the higher tuition they pay (see Chancellor Dirks's unapologetic comments here). Plus, if they did offer merit aid (which they won't), CA residents would go ballistic; they are already peeved about their kids having lower chances of getting into the higher-ranked UCs and CSUs.

 

Some people obviously think it is worth paying OOS tuition (that, or their kids want CA sun :) ). Personally, I think they are nuts, especially kids from states with good public schools of their own. But they must have more money than I do ...

[quark]

Happy to report that kiddo was just accepted to UCSD!

Despite our transcript/ application consisting of half a-g classes (community college) and half non a-g but "reported in application as a-g any way not because we wanted to lie but because there is no other way to report the non a-g due to their weird drop down menu system".

 

That's 2 UCs down, 3 more to go. We should hear from the rest by the 3rd week of March.

[mirabillis]

Congrats quark!!!! You & learners4life have such great UC news!!! YAY! YAY! And double yay!!!!

[happy7]

I have an 8th grader going into 9th in the fall, so I am learning all about these requirements. I find it all overwhelming. I have been reading this discussion in hopes of finding some help with this. We hs through a local PSP that offers some high school classes, and I was planning for him to take Spanish and Biology there next year. But these classes wouldn't meet the a-g requirements and are not AP. But he wants to take classes IRL and be around his friends.  I don't like feeling that he has to either be isolated at home taking classes online (which cost a fortune) or taking CC classes at a young age (can he even do that as a freshman?) just to qualify for admission to UC schools. Part of me wants to just chuck the idea of UC/CSU schools from the start and either not apply or go the transfer route. But I don't want to limit him that way, especially because (1) finances will be an issue so private schools may not be an option without scholarships and (2) he loves STEM and says he wants to pursue computer programming or another engineering degree. Should we continue with these two classes or should I try to find something online for him? I'm sure he could take SAT subject tests or AP for science classes later in high school and do well. I'm not sure whether he can use a test to make up for the LOTE requirement. 

 

My other question about this is Geometry. We started geometry in January using Thinkwell so that he could finish in time to start Algebra II as a freshman. But from what I have read in this thread, it sounds like he won't be able to get a-g credit for that geometry. So if he then goes on to do 4 additional years of a-g approved math in high school, will the fact that he doesn't have a-g approved geometry hurt him? How does that work?

 

 

[quark]

I have an 8th grader going into 9th in the fall, so I am learning all about these requirements. I find it all overwhelming. I have been reading this discussion in hopes of finding some help with this. We hs through a local PSP that offers some high school classes, and I was planning for him to take Spanish and Biology there next year. But these classes wouldn't meet the a-g requirements and are not AP. But he wants to take classes IRL and be around his friends. I don't like feeling that he has to either be isolated at home taking classes online (which cost a fortune) or taking CC classes at a young age (can he even do that as a freshman?) just to qualify for admission to UC schools. Part of me wants to just chuck the idea of UC/CSU schools from the start and either not apply or go the transfer route. But I don't want to limit him that way, especially because (1) finances will be an issue so private schools may not be an option without scholarships and (2) he loves STEM and says he wants to pursue computer programming or another engineering degree. Should we continue with these two classes or should I try to find something online for him? I'm sure he could take SAT subject tests or AP for science classes later in high school and do well. I'm not sure whether he can use a test to make up for the LOTE requirement.

 

My other question about this is Geometry. We started geometry in January using Thinkwell so that he could finish in time to start Algebra II as a freshman. But from what I have read in this thread, it sounds like he won't be able to get a-g credit for that geometry. So if he then goes on to do 4 additional years of a-g approved math in high school, will the fact that he doesn't have a-g approved geometry hurt him? How does that work?

Bookmarking the spot to come back and reply when I have more time today. If I forget, please PM!

 

Okay, I'll give this a shot...

 

<<But he wants to take classes IRL and be around his friends. I don't like feeling that he has to either be isolated at home taking classes online (which cost a fortune) or taking CC classes at a young age (can he even do that as a freshman?) just to qualify for admission to UC schools.>>

 

My advice is always to work with the kid's interests and needs as far as possible and logical. Not only is it more meaningful to the student, but also, it makes the burden on the parent a lot less stressful. You have his buy-in to take the class and you instinctively know paying a fortune for isolating online classes is not feasible and he is only a 9th grader this fall so I'd suggest to go with the IRL class.

 

And yes, a number of CCs, depending on where you live, do take 9th graders but they would have some restrictions, e.g. the student will be limited to maybe 7 units max or the prof might say no or be unhappy if more than 10% of the class will be high schoolers who are dual enrolling for example. Best to take your questions on the exact procedures to the admissions folks. Do not expect all CC admissions folks to know answers too. If something feels wrong, ask another officer. Mine used the CHSPE to be able to bypass all of this and gain priority registration with no cap on units. Based on what it says on the CHSPE website about kids younger than 18 passing the CHSPE and being able to re-enroll in school, I continued to enroll kiddo in my homeschool (I filed the PSA every year). Kiddo was accepted to all 5 UCs applied to as a freshman because these CC units were taken while kiddo was still in high school.

 

<<I'm sure he could take SAT subject tests or AP for science classes later in high school and do well. I'm not sure whether he can use a test to make up for the LOTE requirement.>>

 

UC hopefuls often end up memorizing this page. :laugh: Scroll to where it tells you what scores fulfill the requirements.

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/

 

<<My other question about this is Geometry. We started geometry in January using Thinkwell so that he could finish in time to start Algebra II as a freshman. But from what I have read in this thread, it sounds like he won't be able to get a-g credit for that geometry.>>

 

Depending on when he finishes geometry, simply list it as a year-long (because most schools do it year-long) math course in the application (self report as completed in X grade). If he finishes it in 8th, list it under courses taken in 7th and 8th (you can do this for math and LOTE). If he finishes it in 9th, list it as math in 9th. Geometry only needs to be self reported. If requirements are fuzzy due to Common Core etc, simply explain anything that you think might be helpful for them to know in the additional comments boxes (there are 2 supplied in the application, one is 550 characters in the academic history section of the application, the other is 550 words at the end of the application).

 

 

I strongly recommend any UC hopeful family to complete a pretend UC application when the application opens in August. Doing that "usually" answers a lot of the questions we have and clears up much of the confusion. Good luck!

Edited April 9, 2017 by quark

[...................]

Also, try giving an early SAT using the official SAT at Khan academy.  We have decided not to fulfill A-G requirements but to rely on a good transcript and Admission through Testing.  If your child surprises you and gets a high enough score, then you can sign them up for SAT tutoring and take whatever classes interest him or her, without worrying about A-G.  My son scored within 5% of his target UC's 75th percentile average SAT score. So, with a good SAT prep program (we will use Mathnasisum for math and Khan for English)....I decided that he should not only enjoy but have the type of high school classes we had always wanted for him, rather than jumping through hoops.

 

Of course, if your student takes the Khan test and doesn't score within a few percentage points of where he or she needs to be, to be in the top pile, then it would be better to pursue fulfilling A-G requirements...since you can't really rely on raising the score exponentially.

 

We are feeling so happy and so much more freedom this way.  My son can take the classes he is interested in, both locally, online and at the CC.  And the SAT prep program is only 8 weeks, next summer, so that is a short burst of time where he will focus, rather than months and months of stress every year.  

[...................]

Happy 7-

 

PS, to have a strong transcript your son will still need to take a few AP's ...but you can allow him to take one in a subject in which he is interested, every year, with the goal of two junior and senior year, preferably related to his future major.  A high level math at local CC won't hurt either :)  ...

 

is he finished Alg 2?  

[happy7]

Happy 7-

 

PS, to have a strong transcript your son will still need to take a few AP's ...but you can allow him to take one in a subject in which he is interested, every year, with the goal of two junior and senior year, preferably related to his future major.  A high level math at local CC won't hurt either :)  ...

 

is he finished Alg 2?  

 

He will take Algebra 2 this coming year (his 9th grade year). 

 

Thank you for your input! It's helpful. I am definitely torn about this. I want him to enjoy high school and not stress about taking classes that aren't the best fit just to fulfill a-g. But since he wants to do some kind of computers/engineering, I want UC to be an option for him. It sounds like we can do a mix of AP/CC classes to build a strong resume, then use tests to ensure he has a strong application. He has done well on standardized testing in the past, so hopefully he can test well. I guess we will find out. :lol:  

[happy7]

Bookmarking the spot to come back and reply when I have more time today. If I forget, please PM!

 

Okay, I'll give this a shot...

 

<<But he wants to take classes IRL and be around his friends. I don't like feeling that he has to either be isolated at home taking classes online (which cost a fortune) or taking CC classes at a young age (can he even do that as a freshman?) just to qualify for admission to UC schools.>>

 

My advice is always to work with the kid's interests and needs as far as possible and logical. Not only is it more meaningful to the student, but also, it makes the burden on the parent a lot less stressful. You have his buy-in to take the class and you instinctively know paying a fortune for isolating online classes is not feasible and he is only a 9th grader this fall so I'd suggest to go with the IRL class.

 

And yes, a number of CCs, depending on where you live, do take 9th graders but they would have some restrictions, e.g. the student will be limited to maybe 7 units max or the prof might say no or be unhappy if more than 10% of the class will be high schoolers who are dual enrolling for example. Best to take your questions on the exact procedures to the admissions folks. Do not expect all CC admissions folks to know answers too. If something feels wrong, ask another officer. Mine used the CHSPE to be able to bypass all of this and gain priority registration with no cap on units. Based on what it says on the CHSPE website about kids younger than 18 passing the CHSPE and being able to re-enroll in school, I continued to enroll kiddo in my homeschool (I filed the PSA every year). Kiddo was accepted to all 5 UCs applied to as a freshman because these CC units were taken while kiddo was still in high school.

 

<<I'm sure he could take SAT subject tests or AP for science classes later in high school and do well. I'm not sure whether he can use a test to make up for the LOTE requirement.>>

 

UC hopefuls often end up memorizing this page. :laugh: Scroll to where it tells you what scores fulfill the requirements.

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/

 

<<My other question about this is Geometry. We started geometry in January using Thinkwell so that he could finish in time to start Algebra II as a freshman. But from what I have read in this thread, it sounds like he won't be able to get a-g credit for that geometry.>>

 

Depending on when he finishes geometry, simply list it as a year-long (because most schools do it year-long) math course in the application (self report as completed in X grade). If he finishes it in 8th, list it under courses taken in 7th and 8th (you can do this for math and LOTE). If he finishes it in 9th, list it as math in 9th. Geometry only needs to be self reported. If requirements are fuzzy due to Common Core etc, simply explain anything that you think might be helpful for them to know in the additional comments boxes (there are 2 supplied in the application, one is 550 characters in the academic history section of the application, the other is 550 words at the end of the application).

 

 

I strongly recommend any UC hopeful family to complete a pretend UC application when the application opens in August. Doing that "usually" answers a lot of the questions we have and clears up much of the confusion. Good luck!

Thank you so much! This is so helpful.  I did some research about local community colleges, and while the stronger CC in our area only accepts 11th and 12th graders and limits the number of credits, there is another one that does not limit students this way. I'll do some asking around about the quality of the classes. I do remember someone in our PSP mentioning the CHSPE, so I'll ask her about that option too. I do need to outsource a LOT of high school because I have 4 other kids! We will be outsourcing as much as our budget allows, especially for my STEM kid (that is NOT my forte). Thankfully we have good CC options here. And I have several friends who have done AP classes through PAH, so I can get good input about which ones to take.  

[mirabillis]

Also, try giving an early SAT using the official SAT at Khan academy.  We have decided not to fulfill A-G requirements but to rely on a good transcript and Admission through Testing.  If your child surprises you and gets a high enough score, then you can sign them up for SAT tutoring and take whatever classes interest him or her, without worrying about A-G.  My son scored within 5% of his target UC's 75th percentile average SAT score. So, with a good SAT prep program (we will use Mathnasisum for math and Khan for English)....I decided that he should not only enjoy but have the type of high school classes we had always wanted for him, rather than jumping through hoops.

 

 

This is such helpful advice, whether going A-G or not. We will do this - love to see how we score and where we are at. 

[quark]

And I have several friends who have done AP classes through PAH, so I can get good input about which ones to take.  

 

Mine was not planning on any APs at all at first. Then in senior year, plans went a little awry due to the chemistry offerings at our CC. For senior year kiddo signed up for PAH's AP Chemistry and has only the strongest recommendations for it. Being a literature buff, kiddo also ended up taking Mrs. Serbicki's AP Lit via PAH and likes it a lot.

 

The tip I forgot to share is that I let kiddo follow bunny trails until 10th grade and then once I knew kiddo wanted to apply (mine is an early admit), we sat down together to look at areas that needed a-g/ validation box checking. With some research and creative planning, we were able to isolate at least 3-4 choices for each box check area and in the end the kid was both able to check boxes and truly enjoy the coursework although some of it was to fulfill a-g requirements. This ensured that kiddo always had an a-g, exam-based or university level course to validate all earlier 9th and 10th grade bunny trail coursework. And of course, test scores helped too.