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For those who deal with narcissists or wonder if they are...


MomatHWTK
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https://www.powerofpositivity.com/11-ways-narcissists-will-try-manipulate/

 

#5 Guilt- "I can’t win with you’ is one of the narcissist’s tactics. By playing the victim, the narcissist is pleading with you to console them and help them justify their inflated ego. Don’t back down from getting things your way."

 

#8 Projection- "Whatever it is that you accuse the narcissist of doing, they reflect and blame you for. They project their behavior onto others because of course, they themselves are flawless."

 

 

http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/10-popular-techniques-used-by-manipulators-and-how-to-fight-them.html

 

Gaslighting- "Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic that can be described in different variations of three words: 'That didn't happen,' 'You imagined it,' and 'Are you crazy?'"

 

Moving the goal posts- "This is when, even after you've provided all the evidence in the world to validate your argument or taken an action to meet their request, they set up another expectation of you or demand more proof," 

 

Smear campaign- " A smear campaign is a preemptive strike to sabotage your reputation and slander your name,"

 

Edited by MomatHWTK
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I assume something prompted this.  reading about it really doesn't do the reality justice. 

 

I used to joke grandmother's guilt trips sent postcards.  they really got around.

as a twist on #8 projection - she would blame me  for things my sister did.   sister was the favorite/victim.   the favorite becasue grandmother got to rescue her.  by making me the guilty party - she could continue to shun me (did not shoplift, did not do illegal drugs, did not run away, etc.)  and favor my sister with impunity.

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Oh, I just got the "If only you would..." guilt letter from the NPD in my life. I really dislike the pattern of manipulation. It comes so naturally to the NPD. Really, she's not that clever, but her ability to manipulate is savant level. I think that she actually convinces herself that anything she thinks is true. Then she has no ability to comprehend how anyone could think different. 

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Oh, I just got the "If only you would..." guilt letter from the NPD in my life. I really dislike the pattern of manipulation. It comes so naturally to the NPD. Really, she's not that clever, but her ability to manipulate is savant level. I think that she actually convinces herself that anything she thinks is true. Then she has no ability to comprehend how anyone could think different. 

Yes, NPD types can be really, really good at rewriting their reality to suit whatever they want/need to believe at the time.

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I've had four years of no-contact with my two NPD parents. It's sort of hard during the holidays, but overall it's wonderful.

 

New wrinkle: my best friend from childhood is still very much in touch with her NPD mom. The NPD mom and I live nearish each other. When my friend comes to visit our city, she gets really annoyed at her NPD mom and all of the manipulation -- but completely allows it to mess up our plans.

 

She allows the manipulation even as she's being annoyed. Really hard for me b/c I want to spend time with my friend, but her mom goes out of her way to stop that from happening. And my friend goes along with it.

 

:confused1:

 

Alley         p.s. In fairness to my friend, her brother was murdered so she doesn't feel at all comfortable going "no-contact" with her mom. Still. . . she doesn't have to fall for every stupid ploy.

 

 

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I had a narcissist mother who died in 2011. I was always the "black sheep," and my sibling was the "golden child." You would not believe how differently we were raised. She also physically and emotionally abused my father.

 

We were already getting there when Mom was declining, but my sibling has gone full-blown. Their version is more passive aggressive, but still extremely destructive. I have very little contact. 

 

My therapist once commented though that being the "black sheep" is actually the healthiest role. You learn to set boundaries and become yourself. If you pass that on to your children, they will become more balanced individuals than some.

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My therapist once commented though that being the "black sheep" is actually the healthiest role. You learn to set boundaries and become yourself. If you pass that on to your children, they will become more balanced individuals than some.

 

I know!! The black sheeps are more exposed to the "poison" (so to speak) than the golden children. So, once we're away from the insanity, we're more normal.

 

Sadly, my childhood still affected me. I didn't make the best husband choice. (Lots and lots of passive-aggressive behavior.)

 

Alley

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I had a narcissist mother who died in 2011. I was always the "black sheep," and my sibling was the "golden child." You would not believe how differently we were raised. She also physically and emotionally abused my father.

 

We were already getting there when Mom was declining, but my sibling has gone full-blown. Their version is more passive aggressive, but still extremely destructive. I have very little contact. 

 

My therapist once commented though that being the "black sheep" is actually the healthiest role. You learn to set boundaries and become yourself. If you pass that on to your children, they will become more balanced individuals than some.

You and I could be the same person.

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I had a narcissist mother who died in 2011. I was always the "black sheep," and my sibling was the "golden child." You would not believe how differently we were raised. She also physically and emotionally abused my father.

 

We were already getting there when Mom was declining, but my sibling has gone full-blown. Their version is more passive aggressive, but still extremely destructive. I have very little contact. 

 

My therapist once commented though that being the "black sheep" is actually the healthiest role. You learn to set boundaries and become yourself. If you pass that on to your children, they will become more balanced individuals than some.

 

 

black sheep/scapegoats are more likely to recognize the disparities and object. golden children think everything they get is their due. (and anyone who won't give them that is snotty.)  I started recognizing disparities when I was four - but I was still told I was imagining things if I said anything to another adult.  my sister was the favorite/victim.  (grandmamma loved to rescue her).  my brother the golden child.  but it was my sister's children's pictures in prime place on top of the tv where she could see them from her chair - mine and my brother's children's pictures were on a hallway wall.

 

recognizing her games only gave me the courage to tell her to shove off if I felt strongly enough about something.  she still played her games - and I still had to learn to refuse to play games when I didn't know I had a choice.  her being dead did not cure the extensive damage.  it took years, even after she died, to overcome the anxiety/panic attacks when going against her training.  but, I'm in better shape than my siblings.

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her being dead did not cure the extensive damage.  it took years, even after she died, to overcome the anxiety/panic attacks when going against her training.  but, I'm in better shape than my siblings.

 

Yes, to some extent it is always there.

 

I thought that I was doing really, really well, but DH's medical/mental issues in 2016 sent me in a tailspin. Suddenly my beloved partner became my adversary at times, and the loss was so difficult to deal with. I kept thinking I'd pull out of it on my own, but I couldn't.

 

I went back to the therapist I hadn't seen in five years and began taking anti-anxiety medication at night. It's made all the difference. I've admitted to myself that I waited too long.

 

DH's dementia and medical problems may even out, but won't improve significantly. I am peaceful most of the time despite some flare-ups here and there.

 

So you have to be aware that you're damaged. Better, but still damaged.

Edited by G5052
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Yes, to some extent it is always there.

 

I thought that I was doing really, really well, but DH's medical/mental issues in 2016 sent me in a tailspin. Suddenly my beloved partner became my adversary at times, and the loss was so difficult to deal with. I kept thinking I'd pull out of it on my own, but I couldn't.

 

I went back to the therapist I hadn't seen in five years and began taking anti-anxiety medication at night. It's made all the difference. I've admitted to myself that I waited too long.

 

DH's dementia and medical problems may even out, but won't improve significantly. I am peaceful most of the time despite some flare-ups here and there.

 

So you have to be aware that you're damaged. Better, but still damaged.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:  l'm so sorry.

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Yes, I deal with the above bolded in my Golden Child dh.  It's a neverending, loosing battle.  His mother did a fantastic job of brainwashing him.   ;)

 

My mother convinced my sibling that they are the "only child that matters."

 

That created a huge mess with her estate that will never be resolved. Every lawyer and bank official that I consulted said to move on, which I have.

 

I can imagine the rage my sweet father would have over that, but he died before mom. So everything went to my sibling, including my kids' college fund that he had set aside for them.

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Well if the black sheep is the healthiest role, then I must be the picture of health!

 

His death will not heal, but it will bring relief and that is going to be worth a lot.

 

Right now he is very weak, sleeping a lot so thankfully a reprieve. But my very mentally damaged sister is home from Europe and frankly, she is exhausting to deal with.

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My mother convinced my sibling that they are the "only child that matters."

 

That created a huge mess with her estate that will never be resolved. Every lawyer and bank official that I consulted said to move on, which I have.

 

I can imagine the rage my sweet father would have over that, but he died before mom. So everything went to my sibling, including my kids' college fund that he had set aside for them.

 

I'm so sorry. sometimes - the price for integrity is dear.

 

Well if the black sheep is the healthiest role, then I must be the picture of health!

 

His death will not heal, but it will bring relief and that is going to be worth a lot.

 

Right now he is very weak, sleeping a lot so thankfully a reprieve. But my very mentally damaged sister is home from Europe and frankly, she is exhausting to deal with.

 

dh used to joke about having a grave dance to the tune of "ding dong the wicked witch is dead".

she was pretty much unconscious for the better part of a year when she finally died.  her actual was anticlimactic.

no grave dance.

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Black sheep here, too. Or scapegoat. Are the terms interchangeable?

 

Boundaries help. But the pain is still there. Holidays are hard.

 

not to me.

 

blacksheep:

a member of a family or group who is regarded as a disgrace to them:
"the black sheep of the family"
 
scapegoat
(in the Bible) a goat sent into the wilderness after the Jewish chief priest had symbolically laid the sins of the people upon it (Lev. 16).
eta: 

a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.

 

Edited by gardenmom5
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not to me.

 

blacksheep:

a member of a family or group who is regarded as a disgrace to them:

"the black sheep of the family"

 

scapegoat

(in the Bible) a goat sent into the wilderness after the Jewish chief priest had symbolically laid the sins of the people upon it (Lev. 16).

eta:

 

a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.

Agreed. I'm not sure what my father is...maybe narcissist, maybe borderline, who knows. He's very ill now and rather incapable of his past cruelty.

But I'm the scapegoat, not the black sheep. My brothers both consciously and unconsiously blame me for everything our father did. My mother is much better now (has solid education on these patterns), but when I was a child, her favorite lecture was how I must stop upsetting my father or how I deserved his rage or how I didn't protect my brothers adequately from his rage. Not a one of them would ever say I'm "bad," just "at fault." Scapegoat.

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Or uphill.

Depends on which hill you want to crest.

 

LOL.

 

I have a lot to be thankful for. I have a wonderful husband and two mostly-happy teenagers. I have scads of local friends and work I enjoy.

 

DH often says that if I hadn't had to fight so hard against my mother, I wouldn't be who I am.

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I don't get to be a black sheep or a golden child.  I am the only child.  I get it all.  

 

Add histrionic to the narcissism, and a heavy dose of very crazy religion, and you get my mom.   A lot of, "Someday you will regret you didn't do X or Y for me when I was alive."  And 45 YEARS of, "I am going to die this year.  You won't see me again.  You need to make this year special for me.  God told me I am going to die."  

 

These are just a tip of the iceberg of what I have put up with since I was 4.  That is the year she turned 40 and that is the first year God told her she was going to die.

 

She is obsessed with death.  She talks about it ALL the time.  She also talks about how, if I do X or Y, I won't be ready to die and will go to hell.

 

I can't keep talking about it.  It upsets me too much.

 

And my health insurance changed so I need a new therapist.  I don't want to start over, but if I want to see someone, I have to.

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I don't get to be a black sheep or a golden child.  I am the only child.  I get it all.  

 

Add histrionic to the narcissism, and a heavy dose of very crazy religion, and you get my mom.   A lot of, "Someday you will regret you didn't do X or Y for me when I was alive."  And 45 YEARS of, "I am going to die this year.  You won't see me again.  You need to make this year special for me.  God told me I am going to die."  

 

These are just a tip of the iceberg of what I have put up with since I was 4.  That is the year she turned 40 and that is the first year God told her she was going to die.

 

She is obsessed with death.  She talks about it ALL the time.  She also talks about how, if I do X or Y, I won't be ready to die and will go to hell.

 

I can't keep talking about it.  It upsets me too much.

 

And my health insurance changed so I need a new therapist.  I don't want to start over, but if I want to see someone, I have to.

 

I'm sorry - I do think it makes it harder.  my mother was an only, and she wasn't capable of fighting it.  my parents moved from the same neighborhood (and an *identical* house, which she gave them the money for a downpayment) as my grandparents to a suburb.  it helped, but it wasn't far enough away.

 

good luck with finding a new therapist.

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You know, I feel a little pity for the narcissist because it is a mental disorder. No one can train themselves to be that manipulative, it has to have some kind of hard-wired component. But, then I consider all the damage letting that person back in my life would do to me and my children and I just have to say no. I simply don't have the ability to mentally parry every thrust and the NPD doesn't have the mental capacity to stop herself from causing harm.

 

I did tell mine that if she got therapy I would reconsider. But, any of you who know and NPD know that isn't likely to happen. When it comes down to it, I have to choose between protecting my entire family over this one person. It is a very tough choice. I am sorry for each of you who has had to make it. There is really no win when you are dealing with such a difficult mental condition. Seeing others write about the damage it causes reminds me of why I need to stand firm. I'm not being selfish, I'm protecting the next generation.  :grouphug:

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I don't get to be a black sheep or a golden child.  I am the only child.  I get it all.  

 

 

 

I'm an only, too, with a narcissistic mother.  We have been estranged for almost 16 years with a brief time of a hesitant relationship that totally blew up.  Allowing her back into my life for that short time was a huge, huge mistake.  She is a dangerous person.

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I'm an only, too, with a narcissistic mother.  We have been estranged for almost 16 years with a brief time of a hesitant relationship that totally blew up.  Allowing her back into my life for that short time was a huge, huge mistake.  She is a dangerous person.

 

I get it.  I do have a relationship of sorts with her, but mainly because of my father.  I don't want to have an estranged relationship with him.

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