Dealing With Racist Relatives at Christmas...JAWM

[6packofun]

Oh my gosh, that is just horrifying.   :scared:  :eek:   I'm so sorry!

[hornblower]

There's this interesting point being brought up about what will change people  - --

 

I'm not really convinced it's my responsibility to change anyone. It's my responsibility for ME to not participate, not endorse, not stand by silent. 

 

I think sometimes we spend too much time worrying about whether we're changing people and not enough time living and expressing our values.  

 

 

So I'm firmly in camp get up from the table, smile at the company, say good night, walk out the door, don't look back, don't answer phone or emails for several weeks and then when the inevitable conversation has to happen just say "I will not be in the room while racism is being expressed. I will not debate whether this is racist or not. This bhvr ends or our relationship ends."  No negotiating, no discussing, no lecturing, no debating about what is & isn't. 


Now it's different if you're in a room of mostly good people & someone makes a stupid off color comment or a statement which you know they probably don't really understand or haven't really thought through & you can just gently object and point out why it's wrong & you're pretty sure people will immediately backtrack & go "ok, hmmm. yeah, that was not ok" ... cause you know, that does happen. It happens to me. I've done it. I live in a very multicultural city and I have said stupid insensitive things and made comments which I've had to walk back from & re-think because they're knee jerk and dumb.   

But if someone veers off into downright racism & xenophobia & you can tell (or know from previous history) that this isn't just a momentary duh or frustration moment or lack of knowledge moment from someone who genuinely tries to do better, then I just don't think it makes any sense to stay put or keep coming over. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by hornblower

[poppy]

Well, I might be largely off the hook for the rest of this trip. FIL's dad just had a heart attack and had to be moved to a hospital farther away. That means I probably won't have to see him much for the rest of this trip. That will give me until next summer to read about how people handle racist relatives so I can have a better idea of what to do.

I hope your husbands grandpa feels better or, if it's his time, I hope his passing is peaceful.

[TranquilMind]

You know, I'd love to read more by white allies who deal with these issues in a better way. I feel like there are these two paths that people end up taking, neither of which feels satisfying. Either you cut those people out of your life and lose them. Which feels justified and, I dunno, lets you feel righteous and better than, which isn't so hot as emotions go, but doesn't change their minds and makes you lose family. Or you basically ignore them and pass the bean dip when they say this stuff or maybe say, "I disagree" to get yourself on record, but you don't engage. And then you're basically standing there enabling racism on some level.

 

I do think there's some middle path - engaging without being confrontational or nasty maybe, but it's really hard to figure out how to walk it. And whether it can be walked all the time and if it can't when to walk way. On the surface, it feels like people who name gorillas after black politicians might be walk away candidates. But... I don't know.

Cutting people out is juvenile and unproductive, in my view.

 

However, I would certainly call them on it.  I'd hold one up and say, "Don't you think that naming a GORILLA after (whoever) is incredibly racist?  You do know that monkey, ape, gorilla (etc) imagery was used to depict people of color back in the 50's and earlier, right?    This is not a tradition we should resurrect." 

Or something along that line, up front, and in front of everyone. 

 

But that's me.  (And I don't have relatives who would do this, but I've seen some crazy stuff in public I have addressed). 

Edited December 23, 2016 by TranquilMind

[JumpyTheFrog]

However, I would certainly call them on it.  I'd hold one up and say, "Don't you think that naming a GORILLA after (whoever) is incredibly racist?  You do know that monkey, ape, gorilla (etc) imagery was used to depict people of color back in the 50's and earlier, right?    This is not a tradition we should resurrect." 

 

FIL knows it's racist and doesn't care. He's one of those racists who truly believe that whites are genetically superior to blacks (and probably everyone else but Asians). He thinks IQ tests prove it. He thinks the high crime rate of blacks in various cities is because they just can't help it because they are too dumb to not be criminals. While most people might know enough to be a little embarrassed at being called racist, there are some that wouldn't even try to deny it and would instead say something like "Anyone who has a problem with it is just too dumb to see the truth."

 

There is no educating people like this. I think speaking up and hoping someone will be embarrassed and listen is for the, uh, "more moderate" racists. I'm not trying to minimize more average racism, just trying to convey that that some people can't be reached because they are so extreme and close-minded about hearing other points of view.

 

The crazy part? DH's brother has developmental disabilities. That is probably the only reason I've never heard FIL make fun of people with problems like that. You'd think raising a son like that might lead someone to reject being all the "ists" (racist, sexist, etc), but it hasn't.

[TranquilMind]

FIL knows it's racist and doesn't care. He's one of those racists who truly believe that whites are genetically superior to blacks (and probably everyone else but Asians). He thinks IQ tests prove it. He thinks the high crime rate of blacks in various cities is because they just can't help it because they are too dumb to not be criminals. While most people might know enough to be a little embarrassed at being called racist, there are some that wouldn't even try to deny it and would instead say something like "Anyone who has a problem with it is just too dumb to see the truth."

 

There is no educating people like this. I think speaking up and hoping someone will be embarrassed and listen is for the, uh, "more moderate" racists. I'm not trying to minimize more average racism, just trying to convey that that some people can't be reached because they are so extreme and close-minded about hearing other points of view.

 

The crazy part? DH's brother has developmental disabilities. That is probably the only reason I've never heard FIL make fun of people with problems like that. You'd think raising a son like that might lead someone to reject being all the "ists" (racist, sexist, etc), but it hasn't.

 

I'd still call him on it.  Every time.  And stand my ground.

Fun times would be had by all.  ;)

 

[Sunshine State Sue]

(I'm trying to decide what kinds of plastic figurines you could buy to name after these relatives...so far I haven't been able to think of anything obnoxious enough.)

 

DONKEY

 

[maize]

FIL knows it's racist and doesn't care. He's one of those racists who truly believe that whites are genetically superior to blacks (and probably everyone else but Asians). He thinks IQ tests prove it. He thinks the high crime rate of blacks in various cities is because they just can't help it because they are too dumb to not be criminals. While most people might know enough to be a little embarrassed at being called racist, there are some that wouldn't even try to deny it and would instead say something like "Anyone who has a problem with it is just too dumb to see the truth."

 

There is no educating people like this. I think speaking up and hoping someone will be embarrassed and listen is for the, uh, "more moderate" racists. I'm not trying to minimize more average racism, just trying to convey that that some people can't be reached because they are so extreme and close-minded about hearing other points of view.

 

The crazy part? DH's brother has developmental disabilities. That is probably the only reason I've never heard FIL make fun of people with problems like that. You'd think raising a son like that might lead someone to reject being all the "ists" (racist, sexist, etc), but it hasn't.

I'm sure your FIL isn't worth arguing with, but your mention of genetics and IQ made me think of this--you might enjoy knowing that people of mixed heritage tend to be taller and smarter than people from a single racial/ethnic background.

 

Which of course includes the vast majority of African Americans, almost all of whom are in fact genetic mixtures.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html

[MSNative]

Well, I might be largely off the hook for the rest of this trip. FIL's dad just had a heart attack and had to be moved to a hospital farther away. That means I probably won't have to see him much for the rest of this trip. That will give me until next summer to read about how people handle racist relatives so I can have a better idea of what to do.

 

I'm sorry. I hope he is ok.

[Farrar]

Cutting people out is juvenile and unproductive, in my view.

 

I think it depends. If someone is just toxic, it can be healthy to cut them out. The person who walks away from the relationship is not, by default, the more juvenile one. There's got to be a line somewhere where you protect yourself and your family - and obviously sometimes a person who can't engage productively on one issue can't on others and may have other reasons that you need to cut them out. I think the question is where is that line. And how do you confront and walk it sometimes without just enabling racism or sitting by while it's going on. It's not as straightforward as all that.