Anyone watching Leah Remini's series about Scientology?

[Angie in VA]

I think it's interesting that all of the former members seem to live in lovely homes and appear somewhat affluent. They always speak of having nothing, not even a high school education, upon escape. I wonder what they do for a living and how they get their new lives started.

 

I wonder if they use homes that aren't the people's they're interviewing. Or maybe a hotel? 

 

I know some have written books. I hope they make a lot of money off of them too!

[Angie in VA]

I've read some of her interviews.  I've also read a bit on what katie holms did to be able to leave *with* her daughter.

 

as disturbing as things seem, it sounds like things got far more controlling when miscavege took the reins. 

 

eta: nicole kidman has adopted children with tom cruise - because of 'scientology' - they're completely estranged.  she has children with her current husband.

 

 

I found this 2012 Vanity Fair article "What Katie Didn't Know".

[gardenmom5]

I found this 2012 Vanity Fair article "What Katie Didn't Know".

 

I remember seeing things along those lines, after they broke up.

 

Kinda makes me wonder what it was that broke up him and mimi rogers. I would be more surprised if scientology was completely blameless.

[gardenmom5]

people were asking how scientology got it's tax-exempt status.  interesting quote from the article previously posted.

 

In October 1993, during the first year of the Clinton administration, Scientology received its disputed status as a tax-exempt church. In the years leading up to that, thousands of Scientologists had sued the I.R.S., claiming discrimination after the government began to audit their tax returns. The organization employed the services of a former deputy assistant attorney general, Gerald Feffer, then a member of Washington’s well-connected Williams & Connolly law firm. Feffer’s wife, Monique Yingling, is still a top lawyer for Scientology.

 

makes you wonder what was going on in the background.

[Corraleno]

I found this 2012 Vanity Fair article "What Katie Didn't Know".

 

Wow, thanks for linking that — the story of the girlfriend they "supplied" Tom with before he met Katie was beyond creepy! 

 

As for how they finally got tax-exempt status, I read in another article that it was basically blackmail — they dug up dirt on the officials who were in a position to approve or deny their application, and persuaded them that it was in their best interests to give Scientology what they wanted.

[gardenmom5]

Wow, thanks for linking that — the story of the girlfriend they "supplied" Tom with before he met Katie was beyond creepy! 

 

As for how they finally got tax-exempt status, I read in another article that it was basically blackmail — they dug up dirt on the officials who were in a position to approve or deny their application, and persuaded them that it was in their best interests to give Scientology what they wanted.

 

totally fits in with the other stories about how they keep people from leaving.

 

the rumors are john travolta would leave - but . .. blackmail. . . .

[Angie in VA]

If you are easily distracted, don't you dare watch this video or look on YouTube for anything related to this topic. Too time consuming for me, but I am enjoying hearing the author of Going Clear in this interview. I'm ~ 20 minutes in. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Xuzi]

If you are easily distracted, don't you dare watch this video or look on YouTube for anything related to this topic. Too time consuming for me, but I am enjoying hearing the author of Going Clear in this interview. I'm ~ 20 minutes in.

 

I would also check out the "Surviving Scientology" YouTube channel for interviews with a lot of the same people who have been on the show. You get more of their stories. It's run by the couple who was on a few a week's ago, the one whose son died and they wouldn't let the mother see the body.

[Slartibartfast]

You may not consider them Christian, but there are plenty of cults that consider themselves Christian, read and quote the Bible, etc.

 

Clearly Biblical literacy is not a guarantee against cultism.

The Washington Times was established and is owned by a Christian cult.

[Xuzi]

Anyone still watching? This week's episode was so sad. And ridiculous! Disconnect from a dog?!

[Xuzi]

Ya, the neighbor didn't want to disconnect from the dog. Just that it was even something she had to consider!!

 

I can't imagine how the mother-in-law can do that to her grandkids.

[Peach]

I just read Remini's book - read it in 2 sittings. It's a pretty fast read and she goes into some detail about the teachings and requirements.  Scientology has some warped views of family and parent/child bonds, as she relates in her discussion of the 'base' in Florida where they spent quite a bit of time when she was a teen. Altogether, it's pretty crazy. It does seem as if Tom Cruise's wedding was the turning point. As she describes it in the book, it seems she witnessed a lot of hypocrisy among the higher-ups while in Italy and when she reported it, the deep-seated vindictiveness turned into a big backlash against her. She even mentions that, during her time on Dancing With The Stars immediately after she left Scientology, that her professional partner was often followed around when he left the studio. 

 

She does discuss her missing persons report regarding Shelly Miscavige, and includes an image of it. According to Leah Remini, the police never saw Mrs. Miscavige - she says that they spoke to Scientology's main attorney, who assured them she was just fine. I was poking around a few days ago and came across a couple of reports on line (no idea how reliable) that Shelly Miscavige has been spotted just a few weeks ago in Crestline, CA. They described her as looking very frail and looking like she was homeless. One noted she acted as if she was drugged. Both reports, which say she came into a couple of local businesses, said she was with two younger men who were leading her around. Take these for what they are worth, of course. 

[Miss Peregrine]

I just read Remini's book - read it in 2 sittings. It's a pretty fast read and she goes into some detail about the teachings and requirements. Scientology has some warped views of family and parent/child bonds, as she relates in her discussion of the 'base' in Florida where they spent quite a bit of time when she was a teen. Altogether, it's pretty crazy. It does seem as if Tom Cruise's wedding was the turning point. As she describes it in the book, it seems she witnessed a lot of hypocrisy among the higher-ups while in Italy and when she reported it, the deep-seated vindictiveness turned into a big backlash against her. She even mentions that, during her time on Dancing With The Stars immediately after she left Scientology, that her professional partner was often followed around when he left the studio.

 

She does discuss her missing persons report regarding Shelly Miscavige, and includes an image of it. According to Leah Remini, the police never saw Mrs. Miscavige - she says that they spoke to Scientology's main attorney, who assured them she was just fine. I was poking around a few days ago and came across a couple of reports on line (no idea how reliable) that Shelly Miscavige has been spotted just a few weeks ago in Crestline, CA. They described her as looking very frail and looking like she was homeless. One noted she acted as if she was drugged. Both reports, which say she came into a couple of local businesses, said she was with two younger men who were leading her around. Take these for what they are worth, of course.

That's where I live. Creepy. Now I want to be more aware and see if I ever spot her. Lol

[Runningmom80]

I started watching last week. It's both fascinating and horrifying. These poor people.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I just finished the book too. I actually listed to the audiobook, which she narrates herself. I read it a couple of year ago, but it reads so much better coupled with her series. I feel like the book and the series are filling in gaps for each other.

 

It's truly terrifying what she went through. And to hear her talk abut her own warped mentality in her own words is incredible. It took a lot of strength to leave. Thankfully she had the support of her family.

[Angie in VA]

Yes, I'm still watching it! It's scary, fascinating, and shocking all at the same time. I thought the mil wanted to disconnect from everyone *except* the dog. Either way, she's nutso. Can you imagine living across the street from your three precious granddaughters and not walk over to see them? And even hide from them when they try to see you?? How sad.

I just do not understand how this cult can keep existing. They hunt people down who try to leave. How is the govt not all over that?

 

 

I am still watching and hope it goes into a 2nd season. Maybe follow up stories? 

 

As I understood it, the MIL and her DH own a rental house across the street and hid from her granddaughters b/c she feared retaliation by the church. I think it was the next door neighbor who disconnected from the family but not the dog. Craziness. 

 

So sad about the twin brother. :( Whenever these people cry, I cry right along w/ them. 

 

I too am reading Leah's book. I agree it's a quick read, but life has been nutso around here, so I'm not done yet. 

[Guest]

Watching this series and reading more about Scientology makes me horrified about how easily we can be controlled. It makes me understand more about how someone like Hitler can convince people to do terrible things. We are really very fragile.

[Miss Peregrine]

OMGosh, lol. After posting last night that I lived in the same town as (presumably) Shelly Miscavige I briefly wondered if I would now be followed, lol. But then last night I had a dream about it. Scientology was sending documents to my friends and my friends were all confronting me about what I had lied about things. It was terrible.

[TranquilMind]

I'm glad you reminded me--I wanted to watch this but apparently have already missed some! Going to look it up now....

 

ETA: does anyone know why so many famous people are attracted to it? Does it talk about this in the show?

 

I really don't understand why ANYONE, famous or not, tolerates this.  The first time someone told me that I needed permission from 5 people to go to the freaking dentist would be the last time anyone saw me. 

 

[PrincessMommy]

I'm still watching too. 

 

Did anyone catch the 20/20 episode on Friday? It interviews many people from the show, plus an attorney for Scientology.  She' is the one who successfully fought for them to get tax exempt status.  But... She's not a Scientologist and even said in the interview that her children went to Catholic school or were raised Catholic or something.  Very strange.

 

Here's Mike Rinder's assessment of the show:

 

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/abc-2020/

 

After watching 20/20 I have to wonder if Leah R. is going to try and interview Marty Rathburn.  I'd love to know what happened. 

 

 

I'm still watching, but behind.  I haven't seen the episode about the twins yet. 

 

 

The Washington Times was established and is owned by a Christian cult.

 

It is owned by the Unification Church (Moonies).   They are not a Christian Cult.  They may have started out with some similarities, but it has long since move away from it.   I have no idea if they have cult-like practices such as has been discussed here and other places. 

 

I knew someone who was a western convert to their religion. He was married in of one of those mass weddings that they used to do here in the US.  He was married for few years to his wife, but later divorced.  I never heard him say much about cult-like activities.  He left because he didn't agree/believe it anymore.  This was many years ago

 

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by PrincessMommy

[PrincessMommy]

I really don't understand why ANYONE, famous or not, tolerates this.  The first time someone told me that I needed permission from 5 people to go to the freaking dentist would be the last time anyone saw me. 

 

 

Amen!! 

 

As a mom I just don't get the teachings that your children should be separated from you at a young age.  I just can't. 

 

It must be like the frog in the pot of water that is slowly turned up.  You don't realize you're in a soul-destroying atmosphere until it is too late.   So sad.

Edited January 8, 2017 by PrincessMommy

[FaithManor]

I would imagine they get sucked in, brain washed, and then believe they are saving their kids souls by enforcing the rukes of the cult.

 

The Horatio Spafford who wrote the old hymn, "It is Well with My Soul" started a cult along with his wife in Israel. They were the founders of a big hospital in Jerusalem that eventually became a world class pediatric center. Part of the rules of the cult was that married couples had to become celibate when they joined and their children raised in thr compound with an orphan group instead with a parent. It was very strict. People from the US and even some European nations flocked to it because purportedly the cult had predicted the soon return of Christ so everyone was there to wait and do good works in the meantime.

 

Despite the weirdness of it all, they did manage the good works part of it, feeding the hungry, taking care of orphans, providing medical care to anyone, no discrimination. They remained neutral in WWI and took care of all who came, soldiers on both sides, race or creed was of no concern.

 

Their two daughters did have some not so great things to say about being raised aeparate of mom and dad in the compound. (These were the two born after the infamous Chicago fire and subsequent oceanliner sinking during which the first set of sisters drowned. I suspect that these tragedies -including the loss of at least one more baby after returning due to disease - may have contributed to their decision to start a religious colony in Palestine.)

Edited January 8, 2017 by FaithManor

[Jyhwkmama]

I'm still watching too. 

 

Did anyone catch the 20/20 episode on Friday? It interviews many people from the show, plus an attorney for Scientology.  She' is the one who successfully fought for them to get tax exempt status.  But... She's not a Scientologist and even said in the interview that her children went to Catholic school or were raised Catholic or something.  Very strange.

 

Here's Mike Rinder's assessment of the show:

 

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/abc-2020/

 

After watching 20/20 I have to wonder if Leah R. is going to try and interview Marty Rathburn.  I'd love to know what happened. 

 

 

I'm still watching, but behind.  I haven't seen the episode about the twins yet. 

 

 

 

It is owned by the Unification Church (Moonies).   They are not a Christian Cult.  They may have started out with some similarities, but it has long since move away from it.   I have no idea if they have cult-like practices such as has been discussed here and other places. 

 

I knew someone who was a western convert to their religion. He was married in of one of those mass weddings that they used to do here in the US.  He was married for few years to his wife, but later divorced.  I never heard him say much about cult-like activities.  He left because he didn't agree/believe it anymore.  This was many years ago

 

 

I saw a comment from Mike Rinder on Twitter or FB that Marty will not be appearing on Leah's show.

 

There is something strange going on with Marty R. He is openly critical of Tony Ortega and at times has seemed to defend the church. That being said, I know he is close with Mike and his wife. No idea what is really going on.

[Anne in CA]

When I think of the sense of community I've had with others on mission trips, where a large group of people are working closely together to help others with a common belief system I see how people get sucked into cults. When a group of people is truly cooperating and putting their own desires aside for a time it is amazing. I remember leaving a mission trip in Mexico and my dd (then 8) was sobbing because she didn't want to leave. Our whole family had been staying in a very small room in bunk beds, we hadn't had hot water to wash with the whole trip, we'd been eating mostly peanut butter sandwiches and she didn't care. We had been so close with everyone and everyone was behaving so well. 

 

I've read books where people have been political prisoners in the worst environments and they miss prison when they are gone. I do think people were mean to live in more community than they do or why else would people miss prison? I can see that hardened criminals with bad families of origin might miss prison, but why else would ordinary decent people miss prison? In the book Reading Lolita in Tehran Azar Nafisi mentions a woman in her book club who was unjustly imprisoned in Iranian prison and she found she missed it later. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people leaving Scientology missed it later in spite of the inherit unhealthiness. 

[FaithManor]

That sense of community need is strong for many people.

 

In the Spafford's case, after little Horatio died of Scarlett Fever, their church family decided that with five out of seven of their offspring dead and the bankruptcy from losing their properties and livelihood to the Chicago Fire, God must be punishing them for something and the elders sued for custody of the remaining kids, Bertha and Grace. Spaffords were excommunicated from their Presbyterian church and the Christian community at large made it known the Spaffords were not welcome to bring their misfortune to any other church congregation. The secular court system found against the church elders as there were no provable allegations of abuse or neglect...just divine superstition. But I can only imagine the pain and suffering they endured on top of their already intense grief.

 

They met some whackadoodle that said the pyramids in Egypt somehow predicted Christ's return. I can only imagine that the thought of a community of believers all waiting and working together for a good cause sounded wonderful after their isolation and deep depression. They were culnerable, and one example among the overwhelming many of good hearted people starting a cult for a purpose other than getting rich or powerful from it. It seems that most cult leaders have quite nefarious motivations, money being the most common, with power and sex being next.

[Angie in VA]

I missed the 20/20 episode, so thank you for posting that. I'll have to try to watch it online. 

 

You all just mentioned what I've been wondering this weekend but hadn't gotten around to posting: what about Marty Rathburn? I wondered why he hadn't appeared on the show. I thought maybe they were saving him for the last episode.I guess the 20/20 episode explains it. I do hope all these ex-COSers are friends. 

 

I've read a lot and thought I saw somewhere (so, of course, not vetted) that Marty and Mike considered themselves "independent Scientologists". 

 

I'll keep watching. I don't want it to end. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Angie in VA

[KungFuPanda]

I think a great benefit to having very diverse friendships is that there are people there to point out your crazy.  If you belong to a religion that discourages friendships with "unbelievers" I'd begin to suspect it was because they didn't want anyone to call them out on their nonsense.  

[Melissa in Australia]

When I think of the sense of community I've had with others on mission trips, where a large group of people are working closely together to help others with a common belief system I see how people get sucked into cults. When a group of people is truly cooperating and putting their own desires aside for a time it is amazing. I remember leaving a mission trip in Mexico and my dd (then 8) was sobbing because she didn't want to leave. Our whole family had been staying in a very small room in bunk beds, we hadn't had hot water to wash with the whole trip, we'd been eating mostly peanut butter sandwiches and she didn't care. We had been so close with everyone and everyone was behaving so well. 

 

I've read books where people have been political prisoners in the worst environments and they miss prison when they are gone. I do think people were mean to live in more community than they do or why else would people miss prison? I can see that hardened criminals with bad families of origin might miss prison, but why else would ordinary decent people miss prison? In the book Reading Lolita in Tehran Azar Nafisi mentions a woman in her book club who was unjustly imprisoned in Iranian prison and she found she missed it later. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people leaving Scientology missed it later in spite of the inherit unhealthiness. 

I have read somewhere that what is more likely is they get use to others making decisions about their life - institutionalised -and life is hard when you have to start thinking again after you get out.

[FaithManor]

I think a great benefit to having very diverse friendships is that there are people there to point out your crazy. If you belong to a religion that discourages friendships with "unbelievers" I'd begin to suspect it was because they didn't want anyone to call them out on their nonsense.

I recently called out the pastor of my parent's church for this. He was visiting my brother - who does not attend that church any longer and who maintains a wide variety of friendships - and made some comments about not hanging out with unbelievers, keeping the circle tight so one is not lead astray, not entertaining other viewpoints which might "contaminate the heart".

 

I told him that sounded an awful lot like cult speak and that since the church is independent so no denominational bishops, elders, pr leadership boards to report to for accountability, a pretty dangerous doctrine to practice or advocate.

 

He was not amused.

[PrincessMommy]

I recently called out the pastor of my parent's church for this. He was visiting my brother - who does not attend that church any longer and who maintains a wide variety of friendships - and made some comments about not hanging out with unbelievers, keeping the circle tight so one is not lead astray, not entertaining other viewpoints which might "contaminate the heart".

 

I told him that sounded an awful lot like cult speak and that since the church is independent so no denominational bishops, elders, pr leadership boards to report to for accountability, a pretty dangerous doctrine to practice or advocate.

 

He was not amused.

 

Good for you!

[umsami]

I've been watching it, but have two episodes still to watch to catch up.

 

I was approached by Scientologists back in 1991 in DC when I was on my way to a Kaplan course to prepare for the GMAT.  I remember they gave me this long multiple choice test to fill out, and i was like...."Dude, all I do is stupid multiple choice tests preparing for the GMAT, not interested." LOL  I'm actually grateful that I wasn't taken in, because back then, very little was known about how cultish and strange they were.

 

I cannot believe that David Miscavige has not been arrested for illegal imprisonment or something.  What a freakin 'nut.  I remember reading that some ex-Scientologists are hopeful that once he's gone, the "Church" can go back to helping people with out all of the control aspects.  If they do that, I really don't care.  Just no "Sea Org" billion year contracts, no education, no shunning, no forced labor/reprogramming type garbage.  

[gardenmom5]

I recently called out the pastor of my parent's church for this. He was visiting my brother - who does not attend that church any longer and who maintains a wide variety of friendships - and made some comments about not hanging out with unbelievers, keeping the circle tight so one is not lead astray, not entertaining other viewpoints which might "contaminate the heart".

 

I told him that sounded an awful lot like cult speak and that since the church is independent so no denominational bishops, elders, pr leadership boards to report to for accountability, a pretty dangerous doctrine to practice or advocate.

 

He was not amused.

 

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[shawthorne44]

I do think that there is something to the community-aspect.  I read about some town in America that was descendants form Italian immigrants that has a freaky long life expectancy.   The town was like one huge extended family.   Someone investigated the town and the only reason for the long-life he could come up with the community-support.  Otherwise they did everything 'wrong'.   

[PrincessMommy]

I've been watching it, but have two episodes still to watch to catch up.

 

I was approached by Scientologists back in 1991 in DC when I was on my way to a Kaplan course to prepare for the GMAT.  I remember they gave me this long multiple choice test to fill out, and i was like...."Dude, all I do is stupid multiple choice tests preparing for the GMAT, not interested." LOL  I'm actually grateful that I wasn't taken in, because back then, very little was known about how cultish and strange they were.

 

I cannot believe that David Miscavige has not been arrested for illegal imprisonment or something.  What a freakin 'nut.  I remember reading that some ex-Scientologists are hopeful that once he's gone, the "Church" can go back to helping people with out all of the control aspects.  If they do that, I really don't care.  Just no "Sea Org" billion year contracts, no education, no shunning, no forced labor/reprogramming type garbage.  

 

The thing is, he's a pretty young man.  I'd say he's probably still in his 50s.  He could easily live another 25-30yrs.  That's a lot of damage.

 

David M. seems to have brought it to a whole nother level of awful.. but it was still pretty flawed under LRH.   I don't know if can come back from that.  Perhaps if someone took some of the good teachings (like their smoking cessation program) and use it alone, it would be okay.   Just don't associate with The Church of Scientology.   My understanding from 20/20 is that is partly what Marty Rathburn is doing - which got him into more trouble with the church (copyright laws, etc).

[Lady Florida.]

I watched the 20/20 episode on Hulu last night but didn't learn anything I don't already know except I didn't know about Marty Rathburn's strange turnaround. I went through a year where I was fascinated (in a train wreck kind of way, not an I-want-to-convert way) and read a lot about Scientology. I read Jenna Miscavige's book and watched Going Clear and found Tony Ortega's blog. among other things. By the time I downloaded a sample of Leah Remini's book to my Kindle I think I was over my fascination. I ended up not reading her book. And I'm not going to pay for the show. If it ever shows up free on Amazon or Hulu or some other streaming service, I'd probably watch at least some of it.

 

It's creepy how Scientology stalks former members and how you can't be a Scientologist on your own. Really, anyone can call themselves Christian and read the bible and follow Jesus (I tried that before letting go of my belief) or a Buddhist, or most other religions. They're not going to come after you unless they're one of the cultish versions. But they (the cult ones) are the exception not the rule. Those religions in general don't treat former members like escaped prisoners.

[umsami]

I watched the 20/20 episode on Hulu last night but didn't learn anything I don't already know except I didn't know about Marty Rathburn's strange turnaround. I went through a year where I was fascinated (in a train wreck kind of way, not an I-want-to-convert way) and read a lot about Scientology. I read Jenna Miscavige's book and watched Going Clear and found Tony Ortega's blog. among other things. By the time I downloaded a sample of Leah Remini's book to my Kindle I think I was over my fascination. I ended up not reading her book. And I'm not going to pay for the show. If it ever shows up free on Amazon or Hulu or some other streaming service, I'd probably watch at least some of it.

 

It's creepy how Scientology stalks former members and how you can't be a Scientologist on your own. Really, anyone can call themselves Christian and read the bible and follow Jesus (I tried that before letting go of my belief) or a Buddhist, or most other religions. They're not going to come after you unless they're one of the cultish versions. But they (the cult ones) are the exception not the rule. Those religions in general don't treat former members like escaped prisoners.

 

Yes, Muslims call this being unmosqued.  There are many many Muslims who practice but don't have a mosque they attend regularly.  It can be frustrating, because in general people like fellowship and spiritual nourishment....but it's not a deal breaker.

[FaithManor]

I've been watching it, but have two episodes still to watch to catch up.

 

I was approached by Scientologists back in 1991 in DC when I was on my way to a Kaplan course to prepare for the GMAT. I remember they gave me this long multiple choice test to fill out, and i was like...."Dude, all I do is stupid multiple choice tests preparing for the GMAT, not interested." LOL I'm actually grateful that I wasn't taken in, because back then, very little was known about how cultish and strange they were.

 

I cannot believe that David Miscavige has not been arrested for illegal imprisonment or something. What a freakin 'nut. I remember reading that some ex-Scientologists are hopeful that once he's gone, the "Church" can go back to helping people with out all of the control aspects. If they do that, I really don't care. Just no "Sea Org" billion year contracts, no education, no shunning, no forced labor/reprogramming type garbage.

It is very hard to get cult leaders arrested for their abuse. Prosecutors, judges, etc. do not want to be seen as participating in religious persecution. This is why when the Amish family down the road nearly beat their 10 year old to death, nothing was done. There were actually people in this community that wrote letters to the editor of local newspapers saying they should be left alone. "It is their way." That was the excuse. The sheriff wouldn't touch it because he wasn't willing to be the one on national news seen leading a pair of Amish away in handcuffs or handing over Amish children to CPS. That is often the way it is with cults. And of course the code of silence amongst the members doesn't help investigators either.

 

The IRS has the most success, and it isn't a robust success rate, but something. Since they "feel the hate" in society anyway,there is no PR nightmare if they choose to audit and go after cults for tax evasion and fraud. I honestly think that it will be the IRS that takes down Doug Phillips for his creative tax returns IF anyone does take the slime down.

 

Same with Miscavige. If they get him, it will be like Al Capone.

 

That is how it went for Jimmy Bakker.

[maize]

I've been encouraged by the moderate success in prosecuting some FLDS cases--admittedly those were primarily child sexual abuse charges which do tend to get people's hackles up and it took a lot of folks both public and private dedicated to bringing stuff to light to make it happen, but some truly evil folks did end up behind bars.

 

Don't know how much impact it has had on the cult overall though, they're still around.

[Angie in VA]

OK, I watched the most recent 20/20 online.

 

I don't like how Leah asked Dan Harris what he thought and then called him an asshat for saying it wasn't his job to give his opinion. Indeed, it is not his job. And name calling is exactly what the CoS does to any critic. I like Leah, and didn't mind her saying it's cheesy to ask, "What would you say to David Miscavige." Still, it would be more mature to say, "I say it on my show: if I can stop one person from these abuses..." etc. 

 

Makes me glad we spend time, money, and energy on speech and debate to teach our kids not to attack the other speaker personally but do attack is arguments with evidence and logic. I hope we, you know, model that behavior in our lives too. 

 

I was glad to hear there are talks for a second season. 

 

 

[FaithManor]

I've been encouraged by the moderate success in prosecuting some FLDS cases--admittedly those were primarily child sexual abuse charges which do tend to get people's hackles up and it took a lot of folks both public and private dedicated to bringing stuff to light to make it happen, but some truly evil folks did end up behind bars.

 

Don't know how much impact it has had on the cult overall though, they're still around.

And that is the key. How do we approach deprogramming brainwashed people so that when the leader is exposed, they stop following?

 

Bill Gothard was in trouble in the 70's, 80's, 90's and again in 2014/15 for sexual harassment and abuse allegations. He was removed, from leadership more than once before finally being punted to the door (a punt that I figure will last longer than before but is not permanent) and yet still has followers and donations! What does it take to get people to stop swallowing the kool aid?

 

It staggers the imagination that a guy with abuse allegations dating back to the mid 70's and upwards of 40 victims filing a class action lawsuit against him with admissions of guilt from back in the 80's on his part, can still have people following his marital advice (never married, no professional counseling training either) and SEX advice!

 

I am sure in the case of Miscavige thete is another whackadoodle, narcissistic slime bag waiting in the wings to take his place should he ever be prosecuted, and many believers will continue on like nothing happened.

 

It is hard for rationally thinking people to figure this out!

[Lady Florida.]

 

I don't like how Leah asked Dan Harris what he thought and then called him an asshat for saying it wasn't his job to give his opinion. Indeed, it is not his job. And name calling is exactly what the CoS does to any critic. I like Leah, and didn't mind her saying it's cheesy to ask, "What would you say to David Miscavige." Still, it would be more mature to say, "I say it on my show: if I can stop one person from these abuses..." etc. 

 

Makes me glad we spend time, money, and energy on speech and debate to teach our kids not to attack the other speaker personally but do attack is arguments with evidence and logic. I hope we, you know, model that behavior in our lives too. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I didn't get that. I wondered briefly if something went on off camera that brought on her comment but it didn't further her cause by calling her interviewer (who appeared respectful on camera at least) a derogatory name.

[Anne in CA]

Unfortunately she learned to attack from the best. It's hard to let go of following a bad example.

[Greta]

I think their communities differ greatly. Up here some wear black, with very similar old fashioned boots. Some communities wear sneakers and modern style shoes. They have little huts with phones, and I've seen the ladies gabbing on them plenty of times. I've seen crying babies and misbehaving little boys. Some are very talkative with outsiders, the elderly not so much. The teen boys all wear 'cool' sunglasses during the summer. Some of the little kids don't speak English, but from what I've seen here, the elementary aged ones do. They run most of the plant nurseries, bulk food stores, cabinetry, and timber mills up here. They sell puppies, but from what I've seen its more of a 'let's make money because we already own 6 dogs' type thing.

I realize they have strict rules, but they, too, seem incredibly happy with their lives. There are also Hershbergers, Yoders, and Millers( popular Amish) in the non Amish areas here so they apparently have had some leave. So while I do realize their cult like ways, up here, at least, they seem to be happier and more prosperous than the average family in this part of far western NY.

...but it still blows my mind to see a buggy waiting in line at the Burger King drive thru!

I have no doubts at all about the bolded. I was aware growing up that there were happier, healthier JW congregations than the one I was in. And I learned when I left that there were others that were far, far worse. I'm sure the same holds true in other religions and groups.

 

You obviously know the Amish far better than I do, so I'm perfectly willing to defer to your judgment. But I will caution that looking happy to outsiders doesn't necessarily indicate real happiness. Some cults actively teach people to make sure that they always appear happy to outsiders, in part as a recruitment tactic (though I don't think that would be the case for the Amish) and in part because appearing to be anything less than 100% happy would bring shame upon the religion, the leader, the deity, etc. Not saying that to disagree with you. Just saying it does happen.

[Greta]

Sure, I think similarly of all religions. Honestly, I find them all baffling. I've got devout Christian relatives who are the basically scum, yet very well loved by their fellow parishioners. I've had Catholic friends tell my son he was going to hell. I watch millionaire preachers on television tell their viewers how they can get good with God by giving them money. I see Christians and Muslims condemning homosexuals. I see Mormons shunning their children. I see Jewish Israelis treat Palestinians like animals. Priests sexually abusing children for decades... it never ends. I can say that to outsiders, any religious group can seem happy, but I'm betting they've all got secrets.. To me, all religions are cult like. All depend on various degrees of brainwashing. They all have wonderful things and absurdities, horror stories, and despicable histories. For every good thing there is at least one negative, IMO.

So yeah, I guess it's pretty clear what I think religion is and what it does.

 

I've experienced both a destructive cult, and two different but both healthy, positive religions, so to me the difference is night and day. BUT. I do completely acknowledge what you're saying here. All religions can look a little (or a lot!) weird from the outside. All religions are susceptible to being perverted into cults. And all religions have tolerated or even encouraged wrong behaviors at some time and place in their history. I wish that weren't true, but alas.

[Hyacinth]

Resurrecting this thread to mention there’s a new season out. Tonight’s episode features a panel of people who have left Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

[KungFuPanda]

On 12/20/2016 at 12:43 PM, FaithManor said:

I read a biography of Hubbard a few years ago. Seemed to be well researched.

 

Chilling!

And yup...want to make a huge amount of money in a short time and enjoy narcissistic power, start a religion.

 

This thread read reminds me that I forgot to watch this series. I can find it on Prime?