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Anyone watching Leah Remini's series about Scientology?

PrincessMommy

By PrincessMommy,
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J-rap

J-rap

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ETA: does anyone know why so many famous people are attracted to it? Does it talk about this in the show?

 

I wonder that too, except that it sounds like he targeted Hollywood for the exposure, so he was bound to get some takers.  It makes me feel sad for people like Tom Cruise who are probably very goal-oriented and looking for a purpose.

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maize
maize

You may not consider them Christian, but there are plenty of cults that consider themselves Christian, read and quote the Bible, etc.   Clearly Biblical literacy is not a guarantee against cultism.

SparklyUnicorn
SparklyUnicorn

What floors me is how a guy who was basically a very resourceful science fiction writer could dupe so many people even after his death.    

maize
maize

If this were true we would not have top-down, controlling, Christian cults.   Also, as far as I can tell, cults are not more common in non-Christian cultures than in Christian ones.   It seems the

Lady Florida.

Lady Florida.

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This fascinates me. Did someone say it was available through Amazon Prime? What exactly is the name of the show?

 

 

I don't know about Amazon Prime but full episodes can be watched at A&E's website (reposting because my first post with link is a bit buried)

 

http://www.aetv.com/shows/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath

 

To watch on the A&E website you have to sign in with your cable or satellite provider. I don't see it on Amazon Prime. The episodes are available to buy on Amazon, but they're not free even for Prime members. If it was the Prime symbol would be there and/or it would say something like "Watch free with Amazon Prime". 

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Disconnection/dp/B01MYU2WGJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482344488&sr=8-1&keywords=leah+remini+scientology+and+the+aftermath

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Lady Florida.

Lady Florida.

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Oh yeah, I remember that from trying to watch the last season of Longmire. Boo.

 

Do you have Netflix? They took over the show from A&E and now all seasons, including the latest are available on Netflix. Maybe you already knew that and were just pointing out that you remembered this, but I thought I'd let you know just in case you weren't aware. 

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Seasider

Seasider

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Do you have Netflix? They took over the show from A&E and now all seasons, including the latest are available on Netflix. Maybe you already knew that and were just pointing out that you remembered this, but I thought I'd let you know just in case you weren't aware.

No but while my college kid's home, I might just have to catch up!!!

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Bluegoat

Bluegoat

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I wonder that too, except that it sounds like he targeted Hollywood for the exposure, so he was bound to get some takers.  It makes me feel sad for people like Tom Cruise who are probably very goal-oriented and looking for a purpose.

 

Have you ever seen the Steve Martin mvie Bowfinger.  It has a parody of Scientology in it, it's a bit silly but I think it does give a pretty good sense of why it might appeal to ollywood people.

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beutel14

beutel14

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I watched something on ID the other day about a mentally ill adult son who killed his Scientology mother. She refused to put him on drugs that he desperately needed. He was paranoid and had delusions..

Very sad.

I think I watched the same show. She was on the phone when he killed her.

 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

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JulieA97

JulieA97

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I find it completely fascinating and horrifying.  You can watch the episodes on Sling if you have it.  I look forward to it every single week.  I got a 30 day free trial of HBO just so I could watch the Going Clear documentary.

 

I think Leah is doing a great job with the series and I truly hope it brings this disgusting cult down.  The retaliation the "church" does to former members is just insanely scary. 

 

ETA:  No more Tom Cruise movies for me.  I haven't been a fan for a long time but I am officially done.  So happy that Katie Holmes was able to get out with Suri before it was too late and she lost her.  And sad for Nicole for losing her 2 kids to the cult.  The documentary talks about how she was always viewed with suspicion since her father was a psychiatrist in Australia.  Psychiatry is a big no-no in Scientology.  David Miscaviage had a big part in their divorce apparently. 

Edited by JulieA97
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pinkmint

pinkmint

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Didn't know this TV program existed till this thread, but it sounds like Remini is exposing Scientology and that's good news. 

 

I don't know about other places in the US, but Scientology is big in southern California where I grew up. I stopped into a recruiting center as a young teen to take the "personality test" out of curiosity. Thankfully I didn't get sucked in but looks like many people do. 

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Angie in VA

Angie in VA

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I've been watching.

 

I drive by one of the compounds every day. Once I pulled into the driveway to turn around and a someone appeared put of nowhere and was watching me.

 

It's been reported that David Miscavige's wife is hidden there and has been seen in my town.

 

 

Yikes! I missed till now. 

 

That would freak me out. 

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Angie in VA

Angie in VA

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The sad thing is I think when I first read some of these stories would have been 2002 or 2003. And it's 13 years down the track and nothing imploded that I know of and there are new stories coming out... It's almost like it was too unbelievable so nothing was done or something.

 

 

WRT to what Farrar said about how it's easier to get info now and the fall of Scientology (or at least of David Miscavige, please Lord!) should be easier. 

 

I know we got plugged into the internet a little late compared to others, say, 1997? So, you'd think there would have been big changes by now. 

 

I really like Leah (though she needs to be bleeped more each week it seems, lol), and I think a mouthy, feisty New Yorker is just the one to bring about change.

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Angie in VA

Angie in VA

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I find it completely fascinating and horrifying.  You can watch the episodes on Sling if you have it.  I look forward to it every single week.  I got a 30 day free trial of HBO just so I could watch the Going Clear documentary.

 

I think Leah is doing a great job with the series and I truly hope it brings this disgusting cult down.  The retaliation the "church" does to former members is just insanely scary. 

 

ETA:  No more Tom Cruise movies for me.  I haven't been a fan for a long time but I am officially done.  So happy that Katie Holmes was able to get out with Suri before it was too late and she lost her.  And sad for Nicole for losing her 2 kids to the cult.  The documentary talks about how she was always viewed with suspicion since her father was a psychiatrist in Australia.  Psychiatry is a big no-no in Scientology.  David Miscaviage had a big part in their divorce apparently. 

 

:iagree:  with all of the above. Sorry to hog this thread today. I am behind here and am catching up. 

 

WRT the bold above, this is how I feel about Tom Cruise's movies. I mentioned up thread A Few Good Men. I joke and say, "It's a great movie. I still watch it b/c I didn't know he was crazy then."

 

Some celebs I shake my head at: Dharma (Jenna Elfman) & her DH, Frank, Jr. from Friends! (Giovanni Ribisi, though I think he was raised in it?), Priscilla Presley (still a member?) and Greta Van Susteren - she's a lawyer for crying out loud! Isn't she too smart to be in a cult? But then Going Clear shows how celebs have a very different experience than do other Scientologists.

 

That doc also showed how Hubbard wanted to form a religion to make money. It quotes his first wife saying that. ITA it's nuts they got tax exempt status. 

Edited by Angie in VA
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teachermom2834

teachermom2834

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Greta Van Susteren surprised me.

 

I initially thought Leah Remini was just milking the whole thing for publicity as she doesn't have much of a career right now, does she? But now that I have watched she seems sincere. I guess I am always skeptical of celebrities.

 

I really knew nothing about Scientology other than that Tom Cruise was a nut. I guess I never pictured ordinary people getting caught up in it. Fascinating.

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hornblower

hornblower

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I don't know.  How does the US gov't decide these things?

 

Hasn't Scientology been outlawed in Germany though? 

 

 

according to this, no. Its status is just vague and unresolved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_status_by_country

 

I don't know. Scientology sounds crazy to me but you can find many absurdities in most religions.  Abuses too. 

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fraidycat

fraidycat

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according to this, no. Its status is just vague and unresolved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_status_by_country

 

I don't know. Scientology sounds crazy to me but you can find many absurdities in most religions. Abuses too.

We once had a very astute poster who pointed this out regularly. Alas, she's now on "permanent moderation" so doesn't bother to share her wisdom with us anymore.

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Ausmumof3

Ausmumof3

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Am I the only one who thinks there's a great big blurry arbitrary zone of what is a religion and what is a cult?

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely. Religious groups can wax and wane in cult like tendencies depending on who is at the helm at the time for sure. Often it is less to do with policy and more to do with implementation.

 

And I don't think religion is the only area where this applies though it's the more obvious one.

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Greta

Greta

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Am I the only one who thinks there's a great big blurry arbitrary zone of what is a religion and what is a cult?

 

Steve Hassan has an excellent book describing the mind control techniques that cults use. I know there are groups out there that blur the lines, but there are some cult tactics which can be pretty clearly delineated. I highly recommend his book if it's a topic you're interested in.

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Tangerine

Tangerine

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Am I the only one who thinks there's a great big blurry arbitrary zone of what is a religion and what is a cult? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never know what to say in these threads because of this very thing.  I read through it, and everyone seems to be on the same page.  That this is a damaging, dangerous, ludicrous belief system.  But when there's a thread about Gothard (a group of which I was a member), there are so many people who defend the group, (or most often the Duggars).  I guess there's just something weird enough about Scientology that people feel comfortable with how ridiculous it is.

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Greta

Greta

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I never know what to say in these threads because of this very thing. I read through it, and everyone seems to be on the same page. That this is a damaging, dangerous, ludicrous belief system. But when there's a thread about Gothard (a group of which I was a member), there are so many people who defend the group, (or most often the Duggars). I guess there's just something weird enough about Scientology that people feel comfortable with how ridiculous it is.

Christian cults hide behind the legitimacy of mainstream Christianity. Scientology has nothing to hide behind, nothing to give it a veneer of legitimacy. It's easier for people to see it for what it is.

 

At least, that's my theory.

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*Lulu*

*Lulu*

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Christian cults hide behind the legitimacy of mainstream Christianity. Scientology has nothing to hide behind, nothing to give it a veneer of legitimacy. It's easier for people to see it for what it is.

 

At least, that's my theory.

Also, human nature finds us minimizing risks that are closer to home. It is why people freak out about the possibile pedephile on the route to the park but ignore red flags in the behavior of the adult with regular access to the child.

 

It is easier to rail against the abuses in a religion/culture we feel far removed from than admit the full scope of the abuses in a religion/culture we more closely identify with.

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Greta

Greta

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Also, human nature finds us minimizing risks that are closer to home. It is why people freak out about the possibile pedephile on the route to the park but ignore red flags in the behavior of the adult with regular access to the child.

 

It is easier to rail against the abuses in a religion/culture we feel far removed from than admit the full scope of the abuses in a religion/culture we more closely identify with.

Very good point.

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gardenmom5

gardenmom5

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The missing Miscavige woman--I know Leah filed a missing person report, what happen with that? If she is ok, why doesn't she come out and say so?

 

supposedly the police did a check.  given the reports of uber control by miscavige - I doubt she could come out and say anything even if she wanted to.  I suspect she wasn't supporting her husband, and he imprisoned her.

  Greta Van Susteren - she's a lawyer for crying out loud! Isn't she too smart to be in a cult? But then Going Clear shows how celebs have a very different experience than do other Scientologists.

 

 

 

education doesn't seem to stop some people.  my brother is an engineer.  he understands  concrete facts.  he sent me something he implied was true, when in reality it was someone's really super bad science fiction.  I had to talk him down - pointing out all the holes.  he never mentioned it again.

 

 

 

 

I initially thought Leah Remini was just milking the whole thing for publicity as she doesn't have much of a career right now, does she? But now that I have watched she seems sincere. I guess I am always skeptical of celebrities.

 

I really knew nothing about Scientology other than that Tom Cruise was a nut. I guess I never pictured ordinary people getting caught up in it. Fascinating.

 

from what I've read - she was so upset over happenings at a wedding (was it tom cruise and katie holms?), that odd things started sticking out enough for her to say "wait a minute, this is NOT normal."  then it just snowballed from there as she realized what was happening.  her family left with her.   she seems very sincere.

 

ordinary people are their "slave labor" force.  the stories of 'ordinary people" who got out.  . . .  they're not allowed to  marry, or have children.  they work long hours for nearly nothing, in terrible conditions, etc.

 

I never know what to say in these threads because of this very thing.  I read through it, and everyone seems to be on the same page.  That this is a damaging, dangerous, ludicrous belief system.  But when there's a thread about Gothard (a group of which I was a member), there are so many people who defend the group, (or most often the Duggars).  I guess there's just something weird enough about Scientology that people feel comfortable with how ridiculous it is.

 

I doubt there are any practicing scientologists on this board.  possibly some who looked at it.  whereas there are people who still attend churches that think gothard is a good guy so they will defend him/his-teachings, and people who actually know the duggars.  that's another difference between the two.

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Ausmumof3

Ausmumof3

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For me there are a couple of differences between Scientology and Christianity that takes on a cult flavour. One is that Scientology appears to have been deliberately and cynically created by a dude who thought religion would be a good money spinner. Although there are people that have used Christianity for that end it wasn't the original intention of the religion.

 

Secondly while abuse occurs in a Christian context it's disapproved of and generally people go to cover it up, hide it or whatever. It's not officially sanctioned it just isn't always adequately dealt with. Whereas it appears that in Scientology it is actually a part of the religion unless the stuff I read wasn't correct.

 

So yes, there can definitely be similarities but there are also some differences. At the end of the day the outcomes can be the same for people living it.

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eternalsummer

eternalsummer

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For me, I think a big marker of a dysfunctional institution (which if it calls itself a religion we might call a cult, or if it calls itself a government we might call a dictatorship, etc.) is whether it seeks to

A. support the integration of natural ways humans have lived since we were (presumably) monkeys and the demands of large scale societies

or 

B. replace the natural ways wholesale with new things that (obviously) weren't selected for for the first gazillion years we existed, so probably suck on the whole.

 

So in this case, and in say the ideal communist society, there's the near-abolition of the traditional family unit.  In order to keep people in line, they have to control loyalty and thus get rid of natural loyalty to family by separating parents and children and replacing that relationship with a relationship within the hierarchy of the institution.

 

Other not-cult religions and institutions play on family loyalty and love - many Christian religions insist only believers/members of the faith will be together in heaven after death (thus threatening not a current, but a future and *eternal* severance of the family bond if you leave the religion), but they don't seek to replace it in this life, anyway.

 

 

Just about every group tells their members that only information from people with the same core beliefs about what kind of information is reliable is truly reliable (even pro-science people say things like this) but it seems like dictatorships and cults and etc. are a lot more rigorous, on the whole, about deliberately censoring information.  It seems kind of silly to me - if your point of view is true, and your ideas are the best ones, why would you ever need to censor?  But people from all across the political spectrum in the US do this all the time, of course, even.  

 

 

 

The level of craziness of idea is something that makes an automatic appeal to many people, giving them an easyish way to recognize a cult  - they think there are aliens in the trees!  Planets in an alternate dimension!  or whatever.  It's an easy way to sort of instinctively say - that's out there!  No one sane thinks that!  Must be a cult.

 

But most religions have similarly crazy ideas, to people who are not members of the religion (golden tablets that no one is allowed to see but definitely exist?  a guy who changed water into wine and zombified someone?  waaaaay more than one person who literally talked with a literal god and recorded the conversation? etc.)  

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Lady Florida.

Lady Florida.

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I wondered what happened to her. I'm almost positive I know who you are talking about

 

I am sure I'm in the minority, but I miss her posts.

 

 

 

 

 

But most religions have similarly crazy ideas, to people who are not members of the religion (golden tablets that no one is allowed to see but definitely exist?  a guy who changed water into wine and zombified someone?  waaaaay more than one person who literally talked with a literal god and recorded the conversation? etc.)  

 

Bingo. Also, most ex-religious people are going to criticize the religion they used to belong to because that's the one they know best (and likely caused them emotional pain, or worse).

 

 

 

 

from what I've read - she was so upset over happenings at a wedding (was it tom cruise and katie holms?), that odd things started sticking out enough for her to say "wait a minute, this is NOT normal."  then it just snowballed from there as she realized what was happening.  her family left with her.   she seems very sincere.

 

 

 

Yes, I think it was Tom Cruise's wedding. Also, she was raised in Scientology. Her mother joined when she and her sister were quite young. She's not one of the celebrities who joined Scientology but one of the Scientologists who became celebrities. From some things I've read, they look for talent within and nurture it when they see it. 

Edited by Lady Florida.
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Greta

Greta

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 and Greta Van Susteren - she's a lawyer for crying out loud! Isn't she too smart to be in a cult? 

 

 

 

education doesn't seem to stop some people.  my brother is an engineer.  he understands  concrete facts.  he sent me something he implied was true, when in reality it was someone's really super bad science fiction.  I had to talk him down - pointing out all the holes.  he never mentioned it again.

 

 

 

 

Steve Hassan addresses this in that book I mentioned:  intelligent people are no less subject to mind-control techniques than less intelligent ones.  Being familiar with the techniques so that you can spot them helps, but honestly it's pretty scary how easy we humans are to manipulate!

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Seasider

Seasider

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Definitely. Religious groups can wax and wane in cult like tendencies depending on who is at the helm at the time for sure. Often it is less to do with policy and more to do with implementation.

 

And I don't think religion is the only area where this applies though it's the more obvious one.

I don't think it has as much to do with what a group believes as it does with whether or not one can freely decide to leave the group. From that perspective, religious organizations could at times be considered cultish.

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