When HS is outlawed

[lauraw4321]

It will be because of people like this.

 

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/12/you_feel_like_an_animal_brothe.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home_pop

[Farrar]

How sad.

[Mergath]

Yup. It will. And people will bitch and moan and claim they aren't REAL homeschoolers since they used it as an excuse for neglect and abuse, but the government isn't going to make that kind of distinction.

 

That's why I support sensible homeschool regulations such as a yearly standardized test or an annual physical for dd so people know I'm not locking her in the basement and starving her. I'd rather lose a few battles but win the war.

[Scarlett]

Didn't watch the video. But I wonder why it is homeschooling that is the issue. Why not adoption.

[Scarlett]

nm

Edited December 8, 2016 by Scarlett

[mamaraby]

Didn't watch the video. But I wonder why it is homeschooling that is the issue. Why not adoption.

I think they're both the issue.

 

It's a both/and situation here. Child collectors who feel that their faith or personal belief system requires that they grow their family beyond what they can reasonably handle or who start out with good intentions (maybe) and then find that they have signed on for something entirely different.  They probably don't homeschool to intentionally cover their abuse.  It's just likely that these same types of people also are attracted to homeschooling either out of a sense of religious obligation or because it appeals to whatever also makes them an abuser.

 

Which is not to say that all people who adopt or all people who homeschool or all people who have religious faith or who homeschool/adopt because of their religious faith/personal beliefs are these sorts. People choose one or the other for all sorts of reasons.  I'm with Mergath, though, in that I'd rather we (the broad homeschooling we) made it more difficult for these people to find cover among our ranks.

Edited December 8, 2016 by mamaraby

[Tanaqui]

but the government isn't going to make that kind of distinction.

 

And we really can't expect them to.

 

Didn't watch the video. But I wonder why it is homeschooling that is the issue. Why not adoption.

 

Adoption is also likely to be part of the issue. Some people adopt, and they expect the kids to be "grateful" to them, and then they get mad when the kids aren't. Or they adopt kids with problems, but they try to use a heavily punitive discipline method on them... well, that's about the worst group to use strict punishments on. Or they have this starry-eyed image of them with a gaggle of adoring kids, and don't really think about the reality.

 

Children are stressful in the best of times. Stress can lead to abuse.

[Guest]

I don't see this being reasonably laid at the feet of homeschooling any more than an abuse situation condemns all parents - they go on without rectifying in other educational situations too.

 

That poor kiddo :(

[Corraleno]

The fact that this "mother" threw an elaborate birthday party for her dog and even set up an Instagram account just for him, while her child was locked in a filthy basement starving to death... there are no words.

 

(Well, actually I can think of quite a few, but I can't post them here.)

[Guest]

Yup. It will. And people will bitch and moan and claim they aren't REAL homeschoolers since they used it as an excuse for neglect and abuse, but the government isn't going to make that kind of distinction.

 

That's why I support sensible homeschool regulations such as a yearly standardized test or an annual physical for dd so people know I'm not locking her in the basement and starving her. I'd rather lose a few battles but win the war.

Same here. I used to think the other way because I thought surely anyone who would go to the trouble of hsing would not be doing wrong by their kid(s), right? Then, I met some who caused me to question that assumption...

[Slartibartfast]

The fact that this "mother" threw an elaborate birthday party for her dog and even set up an Instagram account just for him, while her child was locked in a filthy basement starving to death... there are no words.

 

(Well, actually I can think of quite a few, but I can't post them here.)

 

:crying:

 

That is so horrible. I can't believe it.

[Tanaqui]

I don't see this being reasonably laid at the feet of homeschooling any more than an abuse situation condemns all parents - they go on without rectifying in other educational situations too.

 

I think it's clear how homeschooling (or "homeschooling", if you prefer) with little oversight makes it easier to severely abuse/neglect your child than sending them to school. And like posters upthread, I just don't think it's unreasonable to ask that all kids, no matter how they're educated, be evaluated every year to make sure they're learning and still alive, with no suspicious bruises or emaciation. If you can't manage a single doctor's visit a year, and can't find any way to prove your child learned something over the past 365 days, that's on you.

[Bluegoat]

Yup. It will. And people will bitch and moan and claim they aren't REAL homeschoolers since they used it as an excuse for neglect and abuse, but the government isn't going to make that kind of distinction.

 

That's why I support sensible homeschool regulations such as a yearly standardized test or an annual physical for dd so people know I'm not locking her in the basement and starving her. I'd rather lose a few battles but win the war.

 

OT - but your new profile pic is beautiful!

[Bluegoat]

I don't see this being reasonably laid at the feet of homeschooling any more than an abuse situation condemns all parents - they go on without rectifying in other educational situations too.

 

That poor kiddo :(

 

It's not a matter I think of people thinking that homeschooling causes these situations.  More that it makes it easier for people like this to go undiscovered.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yup. It will. And people will bitch and moan and claim they aren't REAL homeschoolers since they used it as an excuse for neglect and abuse, but the government isn't going to make that kind of distinction.

 

That's why I support sensible homeschool regulations such as a yearly standardized test or an annual physical for dd so people know I'm not locking her in the basement and starving her. I'd rather lose a few battles but win the war.

 

We have lots and lots of regs.  Not sure it does anything though.

[Guest]

I don't think accepting regulatory over-reach as inevitable and more than that, as just, is going to put a dent in shitbags willing to lock human beings in a basement.

 

In theory the auspices of homeschooling make it easier to hide abuse, but in practice abuse and neglect and assault are already illegal.

 

I personally don't mind a few regs. A test, some doctors visits, whatever. I think these things might catch "borderline" cases... people teetering on the edge of abuse and neglect. Who maybe didn't realize Johnny was THAT behind in math or that no, it's not normal for mommy to be losing her cool that often (ASSUMING--a big ask here--that their ped doesn't endorse corporeal punishment herself)... But these hardcore ***kfaces with the soul that allows them to STARVE AND BEAT CHILDREN.... Phh. Tests and doctors visits don't touch that.

 

And accepting knee-jerk legislation around homeschooling...that even if it worked would just be a bandaid since we all know how overwhelmed social workers already are...is not going to change that.

 

My thought is that giving the laws against child abuse we already have more teeth, and societally ease off on trying to find blame for child abuse. Just blame the abuser and punish them to the full extent of the law EVERY TIME.

 

Homeschooling doesn't make that horror possible, our collective constant seeking of gray areas around child abuse does. Similar to how tight skirts don't allow rape happen, our collective "but she..." Looking for that grey space does.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't think accepting regulatory over-reach as inevitable and more than that, as just, is going to put a dent in shitbags willing to lock human beings in a basement.

 

 

 

And what do people like that care about laws or regulations?  It's not exactly legal to do what they are doing in the first place.  What more laws and regulations do is punish law abiding people. 

[HomeAgain]

And what do people like that care about laws or regulations?  It's not exactly legal to do what they are doing in the first place.  What more laws and regulations do is punish law abiding people. 

 

Taking your child to a doctor once a year and doing an assessment is an odd definition for punishment.

[Bluegoat]

I think the idea is if there is some necessity for someone outside the family to see and get a chance to interact with the child, you have to actually produce the child.

 

If there was good oversight, and this was actually done, it means to get around it you'd have to forego having any legal trail for the kid.  If I wanted to go under the radar that way, I'd be losing about $700 a month, and it would be tricky too.  It would take some real thought out planning.

 

Whether anyone would really check - well, probably not.  Though its funny, a few workers to go around checking on homeschoolers has to be cheaper than the teachers required to teach all the kids would be.

[Mergath]

OT - but your new profile pic is beautiful!

 

Aww, thank you!

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I did run it through an Instagram filter. ;)

 

[maize]

I think certain reasonable regulations could serve to protect homeschooling freedoms for the vast majority of families who are not abusive. I'm not going to lock my kids in a basement for weeks on end regardless of whether or not I am required to submit a portfolio or testing or to get them to a doctor for a yearly checkup, and I agree that such regulations (which are nonexistent in my state) would be an unnecessary burden for me and would not likely prevent situations like the one above.

 

But if regulations were in place then it would be much harder for someone who was homeschooling legally to hide the kind of abuse in this story; the family would have to go "underground" and legal homeschooling could not be blamed for allowing the situation.

Edited December 8, 2016 by maize

[HomeAgain]

regardless of whether or not I am required to submit a portfolio or testing or to get them to a doctor for a yearly checkup, and I agree that such regulations (which are nonexistent in my state) would be an unnecessary burden for me and would not likely prevent situations like the one above.

 

 

 

Please educate me.  Why are these things an unnecessary burden?

 

There are no regulations in my state.  I witness educational neglect in the name of homeschooling far too often.  I think if we were required to be somewhat professional about our intent in educating our children (keeping records and making sure they are physically where they should be) the neglect would drop off quite a bit, because it requires active participation on the part of the parent to ensure they are truly educating.

 

These requirements are not a burden in other states.  They are part of the package- you want to take over the most important part of a childhood, you prove you are actually doing it. 

[Guest]

Taking your child to a doctor once a year and doing an assessment is an odd definition for punishment.

She loves where you already have to do those things. As do I. So she's saying "more" than that.

[Guest]

Please educate me. Why are these things an unnecessary burden?

 

There are no regulations in my state. I witness educational neglect in the name of homeschooling far too often. I think if we were required to be somewhat professional about our intent in educating our children (keeping records and making sure they are physically where they should be) the neglect would drop off quite a bit, because it requires active participation on the part of the parent to ensure they are truly educating.

 

These requirements are not a burden in other states. They are part of the package- you want to take over the most important part of a childhood, you prove you are actually doing it.

What's crazy to me about these conversations specifically irt educational neglect, not child abuse in the larger sense, is that meeting the minimum requirements in some states _is_ educational neglect in my mind. But it's not, legally speaking, in those states.

 

This is not a comment about your stance on regs+ child abuse... Just that comment reminded of how much shade i cast on some state minimums lol.

 

But, indeed one must begin somewhere.

Edited December 8, 2016 by OKBud

[maize]

Please educate me. Why are these things an unnecessary burden?

 

There are no regulations in my state. I witness educational neglect in the name of homeschooling far too often. I think if we were required to be somewhat professional about our intent in educating our children (keeping records and making sure they are physically where they should be) the neglect would drop off quite a bit, because it requires active participation on the part of the parent to ensure they are truly educating.

 

These requirements are not a burden in other states. They are part of the package- you want to take over the most important part of a childhood, you prove you are actually doing it.

Unnecessary because I'm already educating my children and meeting their medical needs. Proving it to someone would be extra work for me and wouldn't actually benefit my children.

 

Of course, for all I know you would consider my rather laid back approach to homeschooling to be educational neglect...

 

ETA I forget sometimes that not everyone finds record keeping to be burdensome. It is extremely difficult for my ADHD brain and yes is a serious burden.

 

Being actively engaged and creative in meeting my children's needs is something I am very good at. Documenting it is something I am very bad at.

Edited December 8, 2016 by maize

[FriedClams]

Taking your child to a doctor once a year and doing an assessment is an odd definition for punishment.

Not if your doctor is anti homeschooling and can use that visit to advance their agenda. That can be very punishing.

 

More laws don't make lawbreakers into law abiding citizens. I would hazard to bet that the margins remain margins with or without more laws.

 

I think better training for CPS would help. More PSA campaigns like the "if you see it, report it". Better anonymous reporting with real, actual investigating (clean up the overreach and protect kids who need it). Better background screening training, and follow up for adoptive families.

 

But sadly, scumbags are scumbags and no amount of training, help, or regulation will prevent horrible people from doing horrible things.

[Bluegoat]

OUr regs here are fairly laid back.  We register our child with the provice, we submit a plan at the beginning of the year, and at the end report what we actually did.  We can use a very simple form, or we can write it out longhand, whatever.

 

It does create a little accountability, I think.  To do it, you do need to sit down and think about your plan and what you accomplished, so it weeds out people who really aren't interested in that.

 

It wouldn't help pinpoint abuse necessarily though, because you could easily submit all that.  It would be more likely to show up neglect, assuming someone noticed the child had never registered for school.

 

In the end, we do depend on people just noticing, I think, what people around them are doing, and feeling some level of responsibility.

[HomeAgain]

She lives where you already have to do those things. As do I. So she's saying "more" than that.

 

My apologies, then, Sparkly Unicorn.

 

I live where people boast about not teaching their 8yo's math anymore because "she wants to be a midwife and won't need it".  Or 14yos talking about how they finally finished the 3rd grade work because they just didn't want to do it.  "Unschooling" is a common definition for blatant educational neglect and parents are discouraged from keeping records, doing school daily, or having expectations for their children that is above an elementary education.  "Real life is more important," they say.  And their kids can play every level of their favorite video game, but can't spell the title.  I watch kids get dropped into school after 3 years at home who can't read, can't write, probably have a learning disorder but never had a parent even think about that possibility, and then the parent gets upset when they're in remedial classes and placed a year behind instead of struggling to keep up in every subject with their grade level.  These are just the ones out in the open.  I watched a principal be visibly relieved after he had to tell me that my homeschooler may have extra hurdles, I got to see his eyes brighten and shoulders relax because I placed a file on his desk with every bit of documentation he might need to enroll my kid: testing, yearly physical, and shot records.  I can only imagine the things he's had to deal with since I've known the parents of other kids that jump in and out of his schools.

 

Neglect runs rampant here.  I even see it here on the board where parents are overwhelmed and are told to let things slide rather than put their children in school.  I'd rather see my kid get a daily, if paltry, education instead of being told it's okay to skive off for days, weeks, months at a time while I get myself together enough to teach.  This isn't Well Trained.  If we're working on barely getting it together I don't need to be the one in charge of my kid's learning this year.

 

I am all for minimal regulations that make parents think twice about keeping their kids away from a proper education.  Living here has changed my perception greatly.  I never thought people would be so dismissive of this big job until I watched it over and over again.  I tend to have a knee jerk reaction when people push for less regulation now because I see it so detrimental to the children involved.

[FriedClams]

Please educate me. Why are these things an unnecessary burden?

 

There are no regulations in my state. I witness educational neglect in the name of homeschooling far too often. I think if we were required to be somewhat professional about our intent in educating our children (keeping records and making sure they are physically where they should be) the neglect would drop off quite a bit, because it requires active participation on the part of the parent to ensure they are truly educating.

 

These requirements are not a burden in other states. They are part of the package- you want to take over the most important part of a childhood, you prove you are actually doing it.

I don't want more regulation. I don't think it'll help, and frankly, more government rarely helps.

 

I look at it like hand washing regulations in restaurants. There are laws. There are inspections. There are signs. There is training. And I an CERTAIN a fairly large number of workers don't wash their hands. I've seen it. I've been in rest rooms (let's say at a gas station that serves food) with no hot water...or towels...or soap. Sure, this regulations are being followed. Not.

 

It's about personal accountability. This applies to hand washing, or a civics teacher letting kids watch movies all of December, or math teachers who only tech to the test, or homeschoolers teaching their own kids. Regulations don't give people character, and I don't see any reason to waste money chasing that.

 

And FWIW, I homeschooled for 11 years in a low reg state and saw one case of weak, weak homeschooling. It was my former BFF. You would never have known. Her house was spotless, every meal home cooked, kids in spiffy matched clothes, etc... I encouragingly confronted her and she never spoke to me again. My theory - I do my job, I do it as well as I can, and I speak up when I need to even if it's unpopular.

[Guest]

Idk. I do think there should be HS regs. I do not think that will end any abuse. It isn't like those people would say "well, I was going to punish ds by locking him in the basement but he has a doctor's appointment in 8 months so I'll just ground him".

[TravelingChris]

Alabama is not a low regulation site.  You have to enroll in a church school and they set their requirements which can be face to face meetings with students, testing, etc.  When we moved here, my school wanted a meeting with my dd and I.  That first year she attended their classes.  She didn't attend their classes after the first year but did go to  a co-op that others from that school went to for the next three years.  I think she met with the school officials a few more times like when she was requesting permission/help with dual enrollment.  The school also received her reports of ACT and SAT scores so they knew she was taking those.  My school was one of the less restrictive schools around here and they did see her/ could get evidence of her.  I think it may be of interest which church school was supervising that family.  It may very, very well turn out that none was.  Just because there is a law on the books doesn't mean anyone is obeying it.  Law abiding people tend to abide.  People who are already doing such horrible abuse tend not to obey other laws too.  Criminals tend not to be choosy as to which laws they obey.  It is why sometimes criminals are charged with completely different crimes than the main one since the prosecution of the ancillary crimes may be much easier.

[FaithManor]

Please educate me.  Why are these things an unnecessary burden?

 

There are no regulations in my state.  I witness educational neglect in the name of homeschooling far too often.  I think if we were required to be somewhat professional about our intent in educating our children (keeping records and making sure they are physically where they should be) the neglect would drop off quite a bit, because it requires active participation on the part of the parent to ensure they are truly educating.

 

These requirements are not a burden in other states.  They are part of the package- you want to take over the most important part of a childhood, you prove you are actually doing it. 

I also witness extreme neglect in my state. I don't know if regulations would help or not except that if there was punishment of some kind and there was actual personnel to do the enforcing, then maybe. 

 

The homeschool statute states a core set of subjects that must be covered each year. But without registration, testing, portfolio review, or really any means of accountability going off grid and doing NOTHING is easy here, and it happens far more than people want to admit.

 

I turned in a family in my parents' church for educational neglect. It only took being turned in FIVE TIMES (others turned them in so not just me over and over) for anyone to finally put some fire under their feet. Their oldest was ten and couldn't count past 20, could not read a simple sentence, did not know how to spell his first name. The children were being raised like feral cats. Not an exaggeration either. The mother was "homeschooled' after a fashion herself by admission formally through 6th grade with another two years of English and History ACE paces provided (no math, science, or other) but she didn't complete them all after that because she was busy growing and selling flowers. That sounds nice...oh she had a business she must have learned so much. Not really. Small number of flowers, cash under the table, no accounting. She readily admits she would never be able to  pass the GED.

 

On threat of losing temporary custody of the kids while they took parenting classes and the kids were enrolled in PS, she opted for putting them into a private school. They are bizarrely behind, but hopefully can catch up. However, it is very hard to go from feral to structured so the oldest is having adjustment problems and is found sneaking off campus regularly causing the neighbors of the school to be quite perturbed which isn't helping this young man out because he is starting life with a bad reputation. Sigh.....

 

The thing is if people who knew them hadn't blown the whistle, this would never have been caught because there isn't any teeth, any enforcement in Michigan. The mom doesn't believe much in "doctoring" either so it isn't as though some medical professional was likely to figure it out and turn them in.

 

I hate standardized testing so I would be all for portfolio review, and not necessarily by local PS teachers either. Could be private teachers, could be college professors, could be a child developmental specialist. I'd be happy if there was a very large, robust list of options for parents. Yes, they could go out of their way to manufacture "work", trying to make it look like a child's handwriting. But if the portfolio review included the child meeting with the reviewer, writing his or her name or some letters on paper to establish a basic handwriting style, I do think this would be a deterrent. The bottom line is that the above mom is quite simply lazy. Lazy, period. She didn't want to wake the kids up for school, was unmotivated to actually teach and lesson plan herself, unwilling to enroll in k-12 online because that would mean making them log into the computer and do work or be reported, etc. She wasn't willing to lose custody, most certainly wasn't going to take a parenting class - her husband is just as lazy of a parent - and she openly admitted they chose to pay tuition at the private school because they could hire the neighbor to drive the kid so didn't have to get up early for the bus or do any driving themselves.

 

Boxed curriculum is easy to implement. Paces, Lifepacs, CLE cover the education basics described in Michigan law. So without tremendous amounts of planning and effort on the part of the parent, they can provide what is necessary, and completed workbooks turned in for portfolio showing grading marks and unit tests could certainly satisfy the requirements. I don't think that is an undo burden. A once a year portfolio review is a heck of a lot less work than 13 years of waking kids up for the bus, signing homework slips, permission slips, filling out paperwork, sending in updated immunizations records, dealing with bureaucracy every day.  My local PS may be crappy, but they do cover the basics and kids do actual work. One would be hard pressed to find a neurotypical kid at the local PS who couldn't produce a significant portfolio of grade level or close to grade level work. In middle school and high school would that work meet my personal standards? NOPE! But the state law should not be asking homeschoolers to meet a higher standard, however they should be able to make them meet some basic threshold that shows an attempt at education is being made.

 

For abuse? I doubt that if she'd been doing horrific physical things to them having to register as a homeschooler and provide a portfolio would have stopped it. However, if turned in for that kind of horror, I can say with confidence it might have taken a long time for an investigation to take place. Our state cut WAY back on the number of social workers and police officers we have for investigating these complaints. WAY back. Our foster care system was cut too so it isn't like the state is looking to remove kids from their homes because they have no where to put them. It is really bad here! So part of having teeth and enforcing the laws we already have is providing the resources to getting the job done which isn't happening. 

 

So Michigan has some big issues. There is no teeth at all in the homeschooling statute, and no resources to really get a handle on abuse allegations and investigations. it makes for a bad situation for children.

[lauraw4321]

Alabama is not a low regulation site. You have to enroll in a church school and they set their requirements which can be face to face meetings with students, testing, etc. When we moved here, my school wanted a meeting with my dd and I. That first year she attended their classes. She didn't attend their classes after the first year but did go to a co-op that others from that school went to for the next three years. I think she met with the school officials a few more times like when she was requesting permission/help with dual enrollment. The school also received her reports of ACT and SAT scores so they knew she was taking those. My school was one of the less restrictive schools around here and they did see her/ could get evidence of her. I think it may be of interest which church school was supervising that family. It may very, very well turn out that none was. Just because there is a law on the books doesn't mean anyone is obeying it. Law abiding people tend to abide. People who are already doing such horrible abuse tend not to obey other laws too. Criminals tend not to be choosy as to which laws they obey. It is why sometimes criminals are charged with completely different crimes than the main one since the prosecution of the ancillary crimes may be much easier.

Alabama is not a high regulation state. Church cover schools are no longer required. Many many church schools require nothing more than a statement from a parent that they attended the required 180 days. That's it. When I HSed and was looking for a cover school, I was told repeatedly how great and "hands off" various ones were. Literally all that they require was a statement your child attended 180 days. No in person meetings. No tests. Nothing.

[OneStepAtATime]

I live in a state with minimum regulations that are not backed up at all.  (Unless there is a divorce case in which homeschooling is often used to punish a spouse who wishes to homeschool.)  

 

My kids, once I pulled them out of school, were essentially off the grid.  I choose to take them in for a yearly checkup and I do vaccinate but I could easily have locked them in a basement (if we had a basement) and just removed them from society altogether, never taught them a thing, and no one but DH and our moms would know that something was odd.  If they were on board with neglect and abuse the kids would have NO ONE checking on them, trying to protect them.  They would be utterly without help.  And when they headed out into the world at large as adults, if they lived that long, they would not have the skills they need to survive much less thrive.  I guess someone could come after me then but it would be a bit late at that point.

 

I have no issues with having some regulations that require homeschoolers to show their children are alive, well, and learning.  My concern would be the ignorance of those evaluating whether my kids really are well and learning (I assume determining they are alive would be the easy part :)  ) and the consequences if someone feels they are not.

 

I have kids with learning challenges and learning gifts.  A standard classroom and standard materials frequently are a very poor fit. If my child is working as hard as they can, and we are using extensive remmediation but they are behind by "grade level" in some things would I get fined?  Forced to put my kids back in school even if that was a terrible idea for that particular child?  Arrested for educational neglect?  

 

I have a daughter that is very physically active.  She has bruises on a regular basis.  She rips through clothing on a regular basis.  Would I be labeled as an abuser?

 

Still, I personally am for some sort of limited oversight through a system that includes people trained to understand and recognize not only potential abuse/neglect but also how to properly evaluate a good path for a child who is gifted/2e/LD, not just meaningless regulations.  If it lends credibility to homeschooling, that's great.  If it helps parents who are struggling to get some help when they need it, that's great, too.  If it catches an abuser, that's awesome.  How that oversight would actually play out in a positive way I have no idea.

 

But I agree with up thread, I don't think some accountability with homeschooling will stop all abuse or educational neglect in the homeschooling community.  I do think it might put some parents who need help into a position to get help before frustration/fear/anger/self-doubt/depression push them over the edge into abuse or abandoning any attempt at educating their children, either themselves or through a brick and mortar.

Edited December 8, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[lauraw4321]

Example of AL cover school.

 

http://www.broadchurchacademy.org/index.html

[OneStepAtATime]

 

I hate standardized testing so I would be all for portfolio review, and not necessarily by local PS teachers either. Could be private teachers, could be college professors, could be a child developmental specialist. I'd be happy if there was a very large, robust list of options for parents. 

This I could definitely get on board with.

[mom2scouts]

I live in a University community where most people really value education. My experience with homeschoolers is that the majority of the people I meet are doing a very good job. The children are college ready or, if they enter the public high school, they graduate at the top of the class. The longer I've been homeschooling though, the more examples I've seen of poor homeschooling. One woman I talked to last month told me her friend asked her how homeschooling was going and she replied, "Oh, we don't get around to doing too much schooling." Fortunately, her kids are all very young and are still at an age where they can learn a lot through play. One of our state homeschooling Facebook pages constantly encourages new homeschooling parents to "deschool for the rest of the school year" or "just use EasyPeasy All in One Homeschool because they can do all their work independently on the computer" or "unschool because you can just do whatever your child is interested in doing". It drives me crazy because they convince people that homeschooling will be free and easy. As I hear about more of these stories, I've started posting on Facebook more of our homeschool activities and field trips. I want people to associate homeschooling with interesting science experiments, art projects, field trips, and history projects! We have moderate regulations in my state and I sometimes resent them, but then remember that others don't treat homeschooling like a full time job the way I do. However, I doubt the regulations really make such a difference for those who abuse or neglect their children.

[Crimson Wife]

I would be in favor of requiring ALL parents to have their children undergo a physical (by a licensed MD or physician assistant/nurse practitioner working under a MD) and a dental checkup annually. Not treating one class of parents as inherently suspect because their children are homeschooled. Remember that the FLDS did not homeschool their kids but operated their own private schools.

[maize]

I would be in favor of requiring ALL parents to have their children undergo a physical (by a licensed MD or physician assistant/nurse practitioner working under a MD) and a dental checkup annually. Not treating one class of parents as inherently suspect because their children are homeschooled. Remember that the FLDS did not homeschool their kids but operated their own private schools.

 

I don't think this is a bad idea, as long as the physicals and dental checkups are funded for families on a tight budget. I do wonder how tracking and enforcement would be accomplished. 

 

Personally I would need multiple reminders and probably a grace period--I've got too many kids to remember when each one last had a physical. The dentist sets up automatic appointments and sends us reminders, I could work with a system like that :)

[poppy]

Idk. I do think there should be HS regs. I do not think that will end any abuse. It isn't like those people would say "well, I was going to punish ds by locking him in the basement but he has a doctor's appointment in 8 months so I'll just ground him".

It's really more of a difference between 'do anything' versus 'only bruise where it can't be seen by the neighbors' (literally or figuratively ). But in the latter case, at least the kid does have some slim hope of rescue.

 

Giving horrible parents complete free reign in order to avoid burdening good parents is not a reasonable trade off to me.

[GoVanGogh]

 

 

Neglect runs rampant here. I even see it here on the board where parents are overwhelmed and are told to let things slide rather than put their children in school. I'd rather see my kid get a daily, if paltry, education instead of being told it's okay to skive off for days, weeks, months at a time while I get myself together enough to teach. This isn't Well Trained. If we're working on barely getting it together I don't need to be the one in charge of my kid's learning this year.

 

I am all for minimal regulations that make parents think twice about keeping their kids away from a proper education. Living here has changed my perception greatly. I never thought people would be so dismissive of this big job until I watched it over and over again. I tend to have a knee jerk reaction when people push for less regulation now because I see it so detrimental to the children involved.

Amen! I see it here IRL, in no reg state, all the stinking time. In fact, I am at risk now of losing a very good friend over the issue. "Oh, I can catch him up if I buckle down," after she has done nothing for at least five years that I know of.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Taking your child to a doctor once a year and doing an assessment is an odd definition for punishment.

 

We already have these regs where I am. Not the physical part.

 

So adding more, to me, yes is a punishment.

 

I take my kids for regular physicals so that's not a factor to me.

 

You can't possibly think I mean this though so please don't twist what I have said. 

[Bluegoat]

Kids here only go to the doctor that often until they are five.  So that seems unneccesary to me.  We'd have to fund a lot of extra, unneccesary check-ups.

[Crimson Wife]

I don't think this is a bad idea, as long as the physicals and dental checkups are funded for families on a tight budget. I do wonder how tracking and enforcement would be accomplished.

 

If a note had to be submitted with one's taxes in order to claim the child as a dependent, families would have incentive to actually get the checkups done. Each child is worth however many thousand for the exemption, plus most families get an additional per-child credit and many get the Earned Income Tax Credit.

 

I know for the required PS physical, I could take my DD to the county health services to get it done if we didn't have insurance.

[Crimson Wife]

Kids here only go to the doctor that often until they are five.  So that seems unneccesary to me.  We'd have to fund a lot of extra, unneccesary check-ups.

 

I'm sorry, but the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends a well-child physical annually. Parents who do not do so are being neglectful IMHO. Most children are healthy but plenty of serious health issues are caught at routine well-child exams.

[maize]

If a note had to be submitted with one's taxes in order to claim the child as a dependent, families would have incentive to actually get the checkups done. Each child is worth however many thousand for the exemption, plus most families get an additional per-child credit and many get the Earned Income Tax Credit.

 

I know for the required PS physical, I could take my DD to the county health services to get it done if we didn't have insurance.

Even getting to the county health department can be a hardship for families without cars or available time off work.

 

There could be an option of having physicals and basic dental checks done at local schools or even scheduled at home if so chosen. Someone would have to find all that though.

[maize]

I'm sorry, but the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends a well-child physical annually. Parents who do not do so are being neglectful IMHO. Most children are healthy but plenty of serious health issues are caught at routine well-child exams.

I don't think Bluegoat is in the US?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Kids here only go to the doctor that often until they are five.  So that seems unneccesary to me.  We'd have to fund a lot of extra, unneccesary check-ups.

 

They require it here for school children in general. I don't think a physical is required every single year, but at some regular interval based on the vaccines.  They do have a clinic though that one can use if they can't afford it.   But this really in large part comes down to the vaccinations.  My guess as to why some homeschoolers would avoid physicals are due to objecting to vaccines or they may have trouble finding a doctor who isn't anti homeschooling.  I have a lot of options for doctors and I asked around beforehand to find one friendly towards homeschooling.  So I don't go there and worry about it.  I also don't object to vaccines.  A lot of doctors won't keep patients not willing to do vaccines. 

[maize]

And no I don't think it is neglectful to not get a yearly physical. Most kids do fine without one and that is setting an awfully high bar for neglect.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm sorry, but the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends a well-child physical annually. Parents who do not do so are being neglectful IMHO. Most children are healthy but plenty of serious health issues are caught at routine well-child exams.

 

I'm trying to figure out which serious health issues those are because my doctor doesn't test for any health issues.  He has never done blood work.  He has never checked a urine sample.  He taps their knee.  So maybe if there is some associated problem with that he's checking it.