Might could

[Tanaqui]

My relatives say the "do" thing.

 

"See if you need bread. Do I'll go to the store."

 

Now that's one I haven't heard before! Where are you from?

[Seasider]

I've heard that all my life. And have used it.

[Ausmumof3]

Unless your friends name is Might, no way! I've only heard the needs thing as "needs must" is that the same?

 

It sounds like it's almost an abbreviated way of talking which could be quite efficient if you are all on the same page.

[Guest]

Right, Quill said, people would say, "might be able to," in her area and I was wondering if that was incorrect.

Yes, I think that is correct construction. Although admittedly, it simply sounds right to me because I have heard it all my life.

[Garga]

And instead of "needs to be fixed," I would say, "needs fixing." Is that not ok?

 

:confused1:

Needs fixing is grammatically correct. Needs fixed isn't. So you're good.

[Garga]

Unless your friends name is Might, no way! I've only heard the needs thing as "needs must" is that the same?

 

It sounds like it's almost an abbreviated way of talking which could be quite efficient if you are all on the same page.

I've never heard the "do" one.

 

An abbreviated way of talking...perhaps that's it. On some British tv, some of the people will say things like, "I need to go hospital." Or "Will you take this to restaurant." They drop the "the." Maybe a lot of these patterns are just ways to abbreviate and drop a word or two.

 

Like the do one. "Do you need paint? Do I'll get it for you." That's dropping the "If you" before the "do." I guess. I've never heard that one before today.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Garga

[Laura Corin]

The door needs fixed.

 

Not "the door needs fixing."

Or "the door needs to be fixed."

Just "the door needs fixed." Or needs washed. Or needs looked at, etc.

 

It jars me every time I hear it, but I have learned that it's a dialect and originally came from Scotland a loooong time ago, so it's not going anywhere soon.

 

'Does your cup need washed?' is still used in this part of Scotland.  Isn't it just a contraction?  'Does your cup need (to be) washed?'

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Laura Corin

[DawnM]

One of my roommates in high school at boarding school in Africa was from Scotland.  She used it all the time.  So my guess is that it has Scottish and possibly Irish roots.

[Violet Crown]

Of course it's not a coincidence that a great deal of the "incorrect grammar" of the American South reflects Northern English and Scots dialect.

 

There's an intriguing linguistic theory that most supposed double modals are actually "might" being used as an adverb, resembling the evolution of "maybe." This would account for the preponderance of double modal forms beginning with "might."

[J-rap]

I've never heard of it and it sounded kind of ridiculous to me.  Until I realized that here, we say "maybe could."  I guess there's really not much of a difference!  :)  

 

[SKL]

I use "might could" for fun sometimes.  To be proper I'd say "could perhaps."

 

When I went to grad school and started spending a lot of time with foreign students, it was brought to my attention that "didn't used to" made no sense.  LOL.  Of course I would never write that, but I used to say it all the time without thinking.

[Seasider]

Yes, I think that is correct construction. Although admittedly, it simply sounds right to me because I have heard it all my life.

Are we agreed that it is also very tone-flexible?

 

I might could do that (if I really want to invest the time and thought at the moment).

 

I might could do that (if it ends up being important enough).

 

I might could do that (if you do your part, too).

 

I might could do that (if I wanted to, but now I've thrown down my half of the argument and the power to act lies with me, and you realize that, don't you?).

[Tanaqui]

Needs fixing is grammatically correct. Needs fixed isn't. So you're good.

 

Needs fixed is grammatically correct in the dialects that have that feature.

[Guest]

Are we agreed that it is also very tone-flexible?

 

I might could do that (if I really want to invest the time and thought at the moment).

 

I might could do that (if it ends up being important enough).

 

I might could do that (if you do your part, too).

 

I might could do that (if I wanted to, but now I've thrown down my half of the argument and the power to act lies with me, and you realize that, don't you?).

I don't know; it's not something I hear around here (Maryland). I have heard "might could," but it is said by people from the south. I think my niece says this now that she has been living in the south for several years. That and "y'all." Although I use y'all once in a while because it seems like an efficient way to address a disparate group. Better than "you guys," which is typical here.

[Janeway]

I have always said "Maybe Could" LOL..I didn't know there was anything wrong with it.

[raptor_dad]

Of course it's not a coincidence that a great deal of the "incorrect grammar" of the American South reflects Northern English and Scots dialect.

 

 

And the strong Scotch Irish influence on Appalachian English, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_English which includes the common use of "might could".

 

Double modals are also common in most creoles including Gullah. So while "might could" doesn't originate there, it does further normalize the grammatical form.

[xixstar]

I am making a mental note to be verbally guarded in Quill's presence. Well, I might could.

 

I don't know if I use that phrase in conversation, it sounds neither odd nor unfamiliar and entirely possible to be part of my speech. However, I would never write it. :) I know I use needs washed/fixed/etc verbally and probably in casual writing too.

 

Yall, however, I have yet to find a suitable replacement. I really hate spelling it y'all, for some reason, feels like putting on airs. Lol.

[Xahm]

If you hear me say"might could," you I'm relaxed around you and consider you a close friend. I'm a Southerner but learned young to code switch. When I taught English abroad, I was pretty sure my students thought "y'all" was a mild oath because they only heard it when they were driving me nuts and I'd let out an exasperated "y'all!"

[Slartibartfast]

And the strong Scotch Irish influence on Appalachian English, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_English which includes the common use of "might could".

 

Double modals are also common in most creoles including Gullah. So while "might could" doesn't originate there, it does further normalize the grammatical form.

 

My family is very much Scotch-Irish Appalchian.

 

Fascinating.

[Seasider]

I don't know; it's not something I hear around here (Maryland). I have heard "might could," but it is said by people from the south. I think my niece says this now that she has been living in the south for several years. That and "y'all." Although I use y'all once in a while because it seems like an efficient way to address a disparate group. Better than "you guys," which is typical here.

Oops I quoted you, but was wondering if other southerners understood what I meant by this.

[Tanaqui]

Yall, however, I have yet to find a suitable replacement. I really hate spelling it y'all, for some reason, feels like putting on airs. Lol.

 

There's always youse and yinz. A few other options as well. You could bring back "thou" and use "you" exclusively in the plural....

 

[Guest]

I am making a mental note to be verbally guarded in Quill's presence. Well, I might could.

 

I don't know if I use that phrase in conversation, it sounds neither odd nor unfamiliar and entirely possible to be part of my speech. However, I would never write it. :) I know I use needs washed/fixed/etc verbally and probably in casual writing too.

 

Yall, however, I have yet to find a suitable replacement. I really hate spelling it y'all, for some reason, feels like putting on airs. Lol.

Oh no! I've messed up one of the rare IRL boardie meets! I promise I won't correct you if you say the laundry needs done! I won't even flinch if you tell me you COULD care less. :D

[Slartibartfast]

I say y'all constantly.

[Myeightkiddies]

If I'm speaking without thinking (casually talking to another), I will say "might could".  I also say things such as, "He is trying to get sick." Of course he really isn't "trying" to get sick it just means that he is on the verge of getting sick.  It's ridiculous, but it is the way many speak in the area in which I lived for nearly 50 years.  It takes a lot of effort to make my speech more formal (removing the frequent "y'alls and might coulds").

[maize]

I say y'all constantly.

 

I don't use y'all in speech but I do in writing. I'm rather fond of the construction  :001_wub:

 

Might could is one that I don't use (didn't grow up with it) but find, um, endearing I guess? I like dialectical variations in language. My grandmother's grandparents came from the South, and some of their speech patterns got passed down to grandma even though they are not common in the area she grew up in.

[Laurie4b]

When I first moved to the South from the mid-Atlantic region and heard "might could," I was shocked by what sounded like totally grammatically incorrect English coming out of the mouths of intelligent, well-educated university students. I loathed the expression. 

 

I may or may not have heard it come out of my own mouth since then. 

[maize]

If I'm speaking without thinking (casually talking to another), I will say "might could". I also say things such as, "He is trying to get sick." Of course he really isn't "trying" to get sick it just means that he is on the verge of getting sick. It's ridiculous, but it is the way many speak in the area in which I lived for nearly 50 years. It takes a lot of effort to make my speech more formal (removing the frequent "y'alls and might coulds").

Why is it ridiculous? It's language, which naturally exists in dialectical variations. What you probably think of as more "correct" formal English is itself merely a different dialect and not inherently superior to or better than the one younger up with.

Edited December 9, 2016 by maize

[Myeightkiddies]

Why is it ridiculous? It's language, which naturally exists in dialectical variations. What you probably think of as more "correct" formal English is itself merely a different dialect and not inherently superior to or better than the one younger up with.

True.  However, in my former profession, there is little tolerance for certain dialectical variations.  When relaxed, it flows easily, naturally from me.  My use of the word ridiculous was mainly aimed toward myself and how hard I have to work to not speak naturally in certain situations.  I don't think people who speak in a similar fashion are ridiculous - even though I may have placed my sentences in the wrong sequence (typed my response fast and casually).

 

Interestingly enough, I also add "Rs" to words in which they do not exist (warsh instead of wash, for example).  As mentioned above, I'm in the "door needs fixed" club, as well.  

[Guest]

My family is very much Scotch-Irish Appalchian.

 

Fascinating.

Half my family is/was (mostly dead now) but I still never heard that! I'm kind of surprised actually, given that they were literally impoverished Irish immigrants living in the Appalachians!

[Joules]

Going to college I spoke with the deepest south Georgia/lower Alabama drawl.  I learned to tone down my accent and dialect my starting freshman year, for professional reasons and so people could just understand me.  I got much better, unless I was tired (or drunk.)

 

But I was in graduate school before I was told "might could" and "might should" were Southerisms.  (Obviously, they aren't proper English and I would have never written them!)  In grad school in the lab, we had discussions about the actual use and reasons for some of the dialectical phrases from our cultures.  As I tried to eliminate the "might" from those phrases, it hit me how rude I sounded, particularly with "should."  I felt the "might should" softened the phrase and made it feel more polite.  You have to imagine the inflection and tone, but the two following have a different feel:

"You should use a crescent wrench there."

"You might should use a crescent wrench there."

The second has the suggestion that I might be wrong and is less bossy.  I tended to use "might could" in the same way as "could" felt softer than "should."  (A raised-Southern-polite woman really struggled in a male-dominated field back then!) 

 

In the same way that "You might could" was deferential; "I might could" was hesitant...I was putting forth an idea that "might" be right, but is tentative and prepared for argument. It also suggests that I am prepared to defer.

 

None of this makes it proper English, but back in the lab days, we enjoyed figuring out why we said the things we did and what social purpose they served.  I thought I'd share my musings.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Joules

[Slartibartfast]

Half my family is/was (mostly dead now) but I still never heard that! I'm kind of surprised actually, given that they were literally impoverished Irish immigrants living in the Appalachians!

 

You never heard of what? Scotch-Irish?

 

We thought our family was Irish as well until we got the DNA tests back. They showed that my family started in Scotland then went to Ireland then to the US.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans

 

Both sides of my family are Scotch-Irish and NA, about half of us have super curly hair. :lol:

 

It might be worth looking into or researching more.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[heartlikealion]

I hear "might could" sometimes. I live in the South. When I first moved here "my bad" was really odd to the ears. Then I started hearing it other places, like in the movie Clueless. Go figure. Another one that was always weird is "same difference." But it isn't used correctly, really. It's used in place of "same thing." Out of frustration I've even said it myself to dh.

 

I use "might could" for fun sometimes.  To be proper I'd say "could perhaps."

 

When I went to grad school and started spending a lot of time with foreign students, it was brought to my attention that "didn't used to" made no sense.  LOL.  Of course I would never write that, but I used to say it all the time without thinking.

 

I don't understand the "didn't used to" thing. Can you use it in a sample sentence? I'm not sure there's anything wrong with it.
 

[DesertBlossom]

My ils from KS say "might could" a lot. They also say "beings I was..." as in "beings I was at the store anyway...."

[Guest]

You never heard of what? Scotch-Irish?

 

We thought our family was Irish as well until we got the DNA tests back. They showed that my family started in Scotland then went to Ireland then to the US.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans

 

Both sides of my family are Scotch-Irish and NA, about half of us have super curly hair. :lol:

 

It might be worth looking into or researching more.

No no, the might could thing and other speechisms mentioned on the thread. Sorry I wasn't clear! I'm wondering if that was because my grandmother and her family were highly intelligent and she was a writer, school teacher, and generally very well spoken, despite coming from a painfully poor area and family circumstance? I think it was personally important to her to not sound like she was a hick, though she never said a word about it one way or the other. My grandfather was less educated (eighth grade only, then trade and military) and I think you could hear more regional vernacular in his speech in general.

 

Tough to say and I can't ask them anymore either. Half my family was the poor Irish and the other half were wealthy Scotch, and pretty much as pure as it gets. Husband's family is 100% working class German until just the last generation, where I think they bumped up a class. Some funny Alaskan speech things there from his parents and grandparents, but not much I'd identify as being from Germany originally.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[maize]

Going to college I spoke with the deepest south Georgia/lower Alabama drawl.  I learned to tone down my accent and dialect my starting freshman year, for professional reasons and so people could just understand me.  I got much better, unless I was tired (or drunk.)

 

But I was in graduate school before I was told "might could" and "might should" were Southerisms.  (Obviously, they aren't proper English and I would have never written them!)  In grad school in the lab, we had discussions about the actual use and reasons for some of the dialectical phrases from our cultures.  As I tried to eliminate the "might" from those phrases, it hit me how rude I sounded, particularly with "should."  I felt the "might should" softened the phrase and made it feel more polite.  You have to imagine the inflection and tone, but the two following have a different feel:

"You should use a crescent wrench there."

"You might should use a crescent wrench there."

The second has the suggestion that I might be wrong and is less bossy.  I tended to use "might could" in the same way as "could" felt softer than "should."  (A raised-Southern-polite woman really struggled in a male-dominated field back then!) 

 

In the same way that "You might could" was deferential; "I might could" was hesitant...I was putting forth an idea that "might" be right, but is tentative and prepared for argument. It also suggests that I am prepared to defer.

 

None of this makes it proper English, but back in the lab days, we enjoyed figuring out why we said the things we did and what social purpose they served.  I thought I'd share my musings.

 

I can see how the "might" could be used to soften these phrases; that is a very interesting insight! I think someone who does not have this dialectical variant as an option might achieve a similar effect by saying "maybe I(you) could/should..." 

[SKL]

I hear "might could" sometimes. I live in the South. When I first moved here "my bad" was really odd to the ears. Then I started hearing it other places, like in the movie Clueless. Go figure. Another one that was always weird is "same difference." But it isn't used correctly, really. It's used in place of "same thing." Out of frustration I've even said it myself to dh.

 

 

I don't understand the "didn't used to" thing. Can you use it in a sample sentence? I'm not sure there's anything wrong with it.

 

 

I didn't used to listen to audiobooks.

[Laura Corin]

Tough to say and I can't ask them anymore either. Half my family was the poor Irish and the other half were wealthy Scotch, and pretty much as pure as it gets. 

 

Wealthy Scots these days tend to speak in a much more anglicised dialect - the 'do you need washed' dialect is more basic Fife.  If you meet a Scot who sounds English, they come from old money, as a rule; I don't know how it was a hundred or more years ago.

[Guest]

Yeah that side of the family had land and money back in Scotland and were investment rich/oil baron types when they emigrated. They were so rich they didn't notice the Great Depression day to day, whereas my other side of the family was so poor they didn't notice it either - broke before and broke after!