Implementing the Ministry of Truth: the "fake news" scare

[Happy2BaMom]

No one ever convinces anyone on climate change, just MHO. However, it's pretty hard to ignore that something extremely unusual is happening in the Arctic, where temperatures are currently running 35 degrees above normal, and have been for over a month. Keep in mind it is almost polar night (24 hours of darkness there), in the middle of winter, so sea ice should be reaching it's highest point, not being below the previous record lows. High temps in the area have been attributed to a "wavy" jet stream, which means the jet stream is not acting normally, which is something scientists have been saying would happen. 

 

But, again, whatever. No one is going to convince anyone at this point and billions of people are not going to radically change their lifestyles to suddenly be low carbon, so perhaps we should all just bend over and pray/hope that it really is all just a myth. 

 

For those open to considering that climate change is real and caused by man, I highly recommend reading the book "Hot Earth Dreams" by Frank Landis. It was the book recommended to me by a meteorologist who studies this stuff for a living and it's fairly readable for a lay person. 

[Guest]

No, no no no - I will go eat now and stop pontificating on the Internet. Damn you, Hive! :lol:

 

And then I'm finishing the end of my mittens because my hands are chapped from frostbite and that's more urgent. It just doesn't seem like it when I'm typing furiously!

Edited December 9, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Slartibartfast]

No it's behind a paywall.

 

But I'll respond to the reply you originally made about her not being a skeptic. I tend to agree in that I would call her a "lukewarmer", which I suppose I am also.

 

In any case, here is what she says about herself and about climate science:

There are REAL issues with the "climate" of the climate science community.

I don't care what she says, if you are going to call Scientific American, alarmist you don't think it would be rational to read the article that you are using as an example for them being alarmist?

 

You called them alarmist and didn't read the article!!

 

I don't even know what to say to that, you don't get to call anything names if you don't know what it says. That is the biggest fallacy ever.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[Charlie]

I don't care what she says, if you are going to call Scientific American, alarmist you don't think it would be rational to read the article that you are using as an example for them being alarmist?

 

You called them alarmist and didn't read the article!!

 

I don't even know what to say to that, you don't get to call anything names if you don't know what it says. That is the biggest fallacy ever.

 

You should. She's a trained hypnotist so she knows science. Besides, she alone has figured out "No one is using reason, facts, or common sense to arrive at a decision about climate science." Get that? No reason. No facts. Nothing. These liberal scientists might as well gather together in some steamy, weird, mind-altering drug fest, write their visions down on pads of paper, or rocks, or banana leaves, or whatever, put them all into a giant Bingo drum, pull them out at random the next week and assign different people to write different bullshit papers. Why? Because "climate science matches all of the criteria for a mass hallucination by experts." Experts, I tell you!

[hornblower]

 

No it's behind a paywall.

 

 

I don't care what she says, if you are going to call Scientific American, alarmist you don't think it would be rational to read the article that you are using as an example for them being alarmist?

 

You called them alarmist and didn't read the article!!

 

I don't even know what to say to that, you don't get to call anything names if you don't know what it says. That is the biggest fallacy ever.

 

yes, respectfully, if you want to be an informed person on this topic, not having access to the major journals is a problem.  

 

But look, not everyone has to have access. Not everyone has to study this topic in depth and be really well grounded in the science of it. You can rely on "subject matter experts", such as the IPCC. 

 

I didn't see a reply to my question - maybe it got lost in all the posts but RegGuheert, have you read the actual IPCC reports? 

[swimmermom3]

I don't care what she says, if you are going to call Scientific American, alarmist you don't think it would be rational to read the article that you are using as an example for them being alarmist?

 

You called them alarmist and didn't read the article!!

 

I don't even know what to say to that, you don't get to call anything names if you don't know what it says. That is the biggest fallacy ever.

 

We just got a call from our youngest who is in DC for college.  Sad, delusional boy wants to be in the foreign service.  Tonight he went to an event at the Argentinian embassy. It was a poetry reading in Spanish as well as food and dancing.  He is always looking for any chance to practice his Spanish. Among the many people he spoke with was an Argentinian physicist who was not shy in expressing his thoughts on Americans and their backwards attitude towards science. Ds said it was profoundly embarrassing. This was his first embassy event and he loved it. He thought he could probably find the name of the scientist. I had to ask for sourcing on this thread. :D

 

ETA: Oh shoot. I thought I was posting in response to a different post. Oh well - a mom's brag.

Edited December 9, 2016 by swimmermom3

[Slartibartfast]

All liberals are on drugs. This is a well known fact.

I am moderate. :( Moderates have no drugs.

[Barb_]

I am moderate. :( Moderates have no drugs.

You can always vacation in California

[Slartibartfast]

You can always vacation in California

 

 

Moderates hate California, there are too many weirdos there.

 

 

:lol:

 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[swimmermom3]

I am moderate. :( Moderates have no drugs.

 

There's a significant portion of liberals who don't do drugs either, well maybe Titos. My guess is that there is not a small portion of Trump supporters who also do meth.  I was irked to no end when my conservative neighbor that I have raised kids with suggested that now that our state had legalized pot, dh and I could grow it when we retired. Yeah right, I have smoked as much as she has in the last 25 years.  It's a sore point.  I've never loved funding education with addiction habits like playing the lottery,drugs, or even my beloved Tito's. I am weird that way.

 

[Slartibartfast]

There's a significant portion of liberals who don't do drugs either, well maybe Titos. My guess is that there is not a small portion of Trump supporters who also do meth.  I was irked to no end when my conservative neighbor that I have raised kids with suggested that now that our state had legalized pot, dh and I could grow it when we retired. Yeah right, I have smoked as much as she has in the last 25 years.  It's a sore point.  I've never loved funding education with addiction habits like playing the lottery,drugs, or even my beloved Tito's. I am weird that way.

 

 

 

Yes, I was making a joke, I totally have drugs. I have opiates for my back. I would really prefer to have pot brownies but Conservatives say opiates are safer so whatever. 

 

:lol:

Edited December 9, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[ChocolateReignRemix]

You should. She's a trained hypnotist so she knows science. Besides, she alone has figured out "No one is using reason, facts, or common sense to arrive at a decision about climate science." Get that? No reason. No facts. Nothing. These liberal scientists might as well gather together in some steamy, weird, mind-altering drug fest, write their visions down on pads of paper, or rocks, or banana leaves, or whatever, put them all into a giant Bingo drum, pull them out at random the next week and assign different people to write different bullshit papers. Why? Because "climate science matches all of the criteria for a mass hallucination by experts." Experts, I tell you!

 

IN!!!

 

[LucyStoner]

 

No it's behind a paywall.

This is an example of the problem.

 

Regardless of one's ideological positions, no one is well served by expecting quality for free. We get what we pay for. When news first went online it was inadvertently done in such a way that got people hooked on free content. Which proved unsustainable for the profession and we now have way fewer professional journalists (left, right, center or otherwise) working.

 

Google and Facebook each have competitors. 10 years ago, FB was a start up just striking out beyond the college market. In 2026, FB could well be about as relevant as MySpace is now. If people have an issue with their business decisions, they don't have to use them. There are other options. Neither Google or Facebook is a mandatory platform nor do people need to limit their news and information intake to just Facebook memes. That's a choice, not a fate.

 

So pay for news sources you get value from. If you don't pay for your news, you are the product that the news site is selling to the advertisers, lol. Use other search engines and social media platforms if you want. Start new ones if you want. We aren't locked into using what we have now. Change is inevitable.

[swimmermom3]

Yes, I was making a joke, I totally have drugs. I have opiates for my back. I would really prefer to have pot brownies but Conservatives say opiates are safer so whatever. 

 

:lol:

 

Remember, I'm a liberal. I am perfectly okay if you  do them. :D That's your choice.

 

[FaithManor]

I am moderate. :( Moderates have no drugs.

I am a moderate. I don't have drugs, I do have chocolate. Probably addicted to the magnesium which makes me unreliable. Sigh...

 

As a 4H science club leader, I find the disdain for verified scientific findings to be very concerning in our culture.

 

The same science that brought us antibiotics, ekg machines, hybridized pea plants, fuel efficient sedans, microwaves, and an international space station is bringing data on rising sea levels, low sea ice levels, and poor air quality. It isn't a worldwide conspiracy to take electricity away from the masses. It is what it is like it or not.

 

My parents are junk science followers which has resulted in eating only vegetables and diffusing frankincense in order to cure stage IV lung cancer. Sigh....meanwhile the lack of protein and good fats is killing my mother, and all evidence that this is not working for him is ignored.

 

No use for this. None at all.

 

As for google and company, they are private entities and have a right to rank their search results however they like, and consumers have a right to use something else, bing, etc. It is not an infringement of free speech.

[Valley Girl]

We just got a call from our youngest who is in DC for college.  Sad, delusional boy wants to be in the foreign service.  Tonight he went to an event at the Argentinian embassy. It was a poetry reading in Spanish as well as food and dancing.  He is always looking for any chance to practice his Spanish. Among the many people he spoke with was an Argentinian physicist who was not shy in expressing his thoughts on Americans and their backwards attitude towards science. Ds said it was profoundly embarrassing. This was his first embassy event and he loved it. He thought he could probably find the name of the scientist. I had to ask for sourcing on this thread. :D

 

ETA: Oh shoot. I thought I was posting in response to a different post. Oh well - a mom's brag.

 

Just responding to the mom brag...

 

How very cool for your son! He sounds like a go-getter. His willingness to take advantage of those kinds of opportunities and go for new experiences will serve him well. You must be rightly proud.

[Tanaqui]

Well, I was going to respond to Arctic Mama, but now I'm not sure what we're all talking about anymore. I think the rest of you covered it, anyway. Arctic Mama! Stop trying to type in mittens! It just cramps your fingers!

[swimmermom3]

Just responding to the mom brag...

 

How very cool for your son! He sounds like a go-getter. His willingness to take advantage of those kinds of opportunities and go for new experiences will serve him well. You must be rightly proud.

 

He's fairly shy with his own peer group, but does much better with adults and/or graduate students. I think perhaps that is a result of homeschooling, but am not sure. I would never have done what he did tonight without peer backups and I was fairly outgoing.

 

It's all very cool.

 

[Guest]

Well, I was going to respond to Arctic Mama, but now I'm not sure what we're all talking about anymore. I think the rest of you covered it, anyway. Arctic Mama! Stop trying to type in mittens! It just cramps your fingers!

Worse, after I ate I didn't even get to my knitting, I had to make other people food. Now I'm fighting massive cankles (stupid end of pregnancy) and painted my nails instead. So I'm curing at present, and still haven't finished the end of the second mitten. :o

 

My nails look smashing though, even if I have sausage feet that are tingling.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[swimmermom3]

Worse, after I ate I didn't even get to my knitting, I had to make other people food. Now I'm fighting massive cankles (stupid end of pregnancy) and painted my nails instead. So I'm curing at present, and still haven't finished the end of the second mitten. :o

 

My nails look smashing though, even if I have sausage feet that are tingling.

 

I am out of likes, but thanks so much for the laugh.  The imagery is hoot worthy. May your cankles  vanish quickly and I am thrilled to hear that there will be a little one. Congratulations!

[Liz CA]

 

I am just referring to the graph above: What is the correlation coefficient? It says "Correlation: 0.86...." but it does not provide methodology and research design.

 

[Tanaqui]

Pretty sure that image is from Spurious Correlations, Liz, aka "the place where I learned that a bajillion people each year die by getting tangled up in their bedsheets".
 

[Liz CA]

Pretty sure that image is from Spurious Correlations, Liz, aka "the place where I learned that a bajillion people each year die by getting tangled up in their bedsheets".

 

 

I am heading right over there. Thank you for the link. :laugh:

 

ETA: I checked it out. There is a problem. Cheese eating correlates with death by bed sheet tangling, HOWEVER, consumption of mozzarella correlates with Civil Engineering Doctorates awarded.

Those who avoided getting killed by tangling up their bed sheets became Civil Engineers. I now need to find out what the correlation coefficient is for this one to see if it's statistically significant...

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Liz CA

[LucyStoner]

So how does this drug thing work?

 

Since I am str8 edge aka always totally drug free, do I turn in my liberal card somewhere?

 

Or do I cease to be a liberal because I am str8 edge and I just don't know that I am not a liberal?

 

Matters to ponder.

[Liz CA]

So how does this drug thing work?

 

Since I am str8 edge aka always totally drug free, do I turn in my liberal card somewhere?

 

Or do I cease to be a liberal because I am str8 edge and I just don't know that I am not a liberal?

 

Matters to ponder.

 

I think it's the second one. :leaving:

[frogger]

I could not agree more. It boggles my mind how often if I did something there's hellfire jail time, but a corporation? Oh well. That's different. Same goes for schools getting away with stuff that parents for sure wouldn't.

Restrain? How about quit helping and encouraging them. Unlikely, with the way our government works. Lobbyists are paid well for a reason after all.

[idnib]

These liberal scientists might as well gather together in some steamy, weird, mind-altering drug fest, write their visions down on pads of paper, or rocks, or banana leaves, or whatever, put them all into a giant Bingo drum, pull them out at random the next week and assign different people to write different bullshit papers. 

 

I assume you mean Burning Man.

 

 

So pay for news sources you get value from. If you don't pay for your news, you are the product that the news site is selling to the advertisers, lol. 

 

Yep. If you can't figure out what the product is, it's you.

 

So how does this drug thing work?

 

Since I am str8 edge aka always totally drug free, do I turn in my liberal card somewhere?

 

 

I believe the procedure is to attend Burning Man, and if you sign an affidavit saying you made it through the week drug, alcohol, and sex free, they will collect your card at the exit at your request. If you'd like to keep your illicit card as s souvenir despite your conservative tendencies, make a slit in the top of your car's sun visor and stash it in there. Always pack everything out.

[frogger]

Wow, I guess I'm not on here enough to participate. I quoted someone and responded. Then started reading backwards since that action popped me to the end of the thread. It's a different thread back here and I was beginning to wonder if that wine was fermented a little more than usual.

[Slartibartfast]

Wow, I guess I'm not on here enough to participate. I quoted someone and responded. Then started reading backwards since that action popped me to the end of the thread. It's a different thread back here and I was beginning to wonder if that wine was fermented a little more than usual.

 

You could just hit one or all of the topics in the thread and we can pick it up where you would like. The topics appear to be, fake news, climate change, hallucinogenics, drug use per political party, fake satellites,  who is using which fallacy, fallacy definitions  when people point out  incorrect fallacies or not fallacies at all, burning man, knitting, cankles, pizzagate, tacos, Google overlords, Greek restaurant overlords, Facebook overlords, First Amendment, which Flynn is insane or is it both, depictions of congress in science fiction, code words for sex slaves, algorithms, trolls on WTM, trolls not on WTM, no one wants to talk about gay cakes, weird artists, batpoop, Colin Powell, designers discriminating against Melania Trump, who hates Alex Jones more, Executive powers, various cartoonists, Nazis, "shadowbanning," Princess Bride quotes, Art Bell, Birthers, euphemisms for basement, the definition of "crazy," various news sources, various journalists, SWB getting salty, WE DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT GAY CAKE!, NASA, NOAA, conspiracy theorists, Chinese hoaxes, data extrapolation, graph reading, Nobel prizes, hippies, Asian land wars, Eminem, and the always popular booze.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[Tanaqui]

Some people want to talk about gay cakes. Some people are really eager to talk about gay cakes. I have no idea why, but....

[Joules]

You missed this part:

 

Translation:  We cannot measure the impact of CO2 on the reduction of cooling of the ocean.  We can BARELY measure it for the effect of clouds, but we managed.

 

 

 

You do know that the big problem with CO₂ and the oceans is acidification, right?  

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

 

Despite the fact that the press focuses on temperature as a metric, the other effects are as or more important.