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Kinsa

"Evan" --- have you seen this yet?

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This is going viral right now, and with good reason. Very powerful message:

 

Edited by Kinsa
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I've seen it and it is powerful - though I think your trigger warning will greatly dampen the impact .

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I've seen it and it is powerful - though I think your trigger warning will greatly dampen the impact .

Okay, I deleted the trigger warning... but if I get chewed out because of it, I'm blaming you! ;)

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Okay, I deleted the trigger warning... but if I get chewed out because of it, I'm blaming you! ;)

Very fair!

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I don't think the trigger warning dampens it. I saw it first after seeing a trigger warning (though a nonspecific one like that) and knowing who made the video... I knew what the theme was probably going to be. But the way that it's presented is obviously surprising and works well.

 

I saw it the other day and I'm still trying to decide how I feel about it. I think it's good overall. But I also worry that it implies that we can always prevent this type of event by spotting the signs and I don't think I believe that. I think there are other steps we need to take. Also, I know how kids were targeted after Columbine and it wasn't pretty. It didn't make things better for lonely kids who wore trenchcoats, you know? I worry that the message here empowers people to think that they can spot the future killers and that they'll present obvious signs - and what those signs are may get warped. Not all kids who fit a certain stereotype are actually budding killers.

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They seriously put the kid in a trench coat ?

 

Idk you guys. From outside the US, it seems like a really, really weird ad. 

 

I guess it's not aimed at anyone outside the US.

 

Can't say more.

 

 

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I'm glad the trigger warning was taken away. I didn't see that originally and it would have dampened the impact on me. The whole writing on a desk to another person in class struck home with me because in college I did it. I spent an entire semester conversing with some random person who just happened to sit in the same seat as me at a different time of the day in a different class. I never ended up meeting the person but we shared book and music recommendations back and forth. Then gave feedback on how we liked the recs. Etc.

 

So as I watched that I was reliving sophomore year Organic Chem class in my head and to be ripped from that and pulled into a serious topic was interesting. I would have never connected so deeply if I knew something disturbing was going to happen.

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They seriously put the kid in a trench coat ?

 

Idk you guys. From outside the US, it seems like a really, really weird ad.

 

I guess it's not aimed at anyone outside the US.

 

Can't say more.

I didn't even notice the trench coat actually. They probably should have left that out.

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Hmmm...  I'm not sure what I think of it either.  I mean, it is powerful, for sure!  But what was the point?  That as we live our normal, day-to-day lives, terrible and sad things are going on?  It's easy to pick up on stuff in hindsite, but how can we pick up on it when it's actually happening?  It still might be a good message to help get us out of our bubble.  I just don't know.

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I didn't even notice the trench coat actually. They probably should have left that out.

 

A trench style silhouette. I suppose it's meant to have hidden his gun.  

 

It will only be effective if people click on the link at the end to download the info. Scare campaigns can work, but only if they are followed by information on how to prevent the dreaded outcome. 

 

 

Edited by StellaM
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It is literally what you see. A trench coat silhouette. Yeah, they really should have left that out.

I have watched it multiple times, and I honestly never noticed until you mentioned it.

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Hmmm...  I'm not sure what I think of it either.  I mean, it is powerful, for sure!  But what was the point?  That as we live our normal, day-to-day lives, terrible and sad things are going on?  It's easy to pick up on stuff in hindsite, but how can we pick up on it when it's actually happening?  It still might be a good message to help get us out of our bubble.  I just don't know.

 

The point is to download and read the info on preventing gun violence. The rest is just attention grabbing packaging. 

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The point is to download and read the info on preventing gun violence. The rest is just attention grabbing packaging. 

 

Well, now I feel a little dumb, but that part didn't even occur to me.   I barely read that last part.

 

I'm certainly against gun violence, and guns in general.  

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I have watched it multiple times, and I honestly never noticed until you mentioned it.

 

For those of us who were black trenchcoat wearing high school geeks, it seriously stood out immediately. Without a question, it's furthering a post-Columbine stereotype.

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The point is to download and read the info on preventing gun violence. The rest is just attention grabbing packaging. 

 

I know it maybe has to do this in order to accomplish anything at all, but my first take was that it's trying to accomplish something without actually tackling the question of whether guns should be so readily available in the first place. It would be great to recognize all the kids who are actually having mental breakdowns (and most of them aren't the loners in trenchcoats, sigh...) but the best thing we could do for that kid would be to take away his ability to get a gun in the first place. But we're not even allowed to have that conversation so instead they have to make this ad.

 

And maybe it'll do some good. It just reminded me how impotent we all are to address part of the root of the problem.

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To me, based on the video alone, it had less to do with gun violence and more to do with the fact that troubled kids are in our midst and we don't realize it.

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I saw it the other day and I'm still trying to decide how I feel about it. I think it's good overall. But I also worry that it implies that we can always prevent this type of event by spotting the signs and I don't think I believe that. I think there are other steps we need to take. Also, I know how kids were targeted after Columbine and it wasn't pretty. It didn't make things better for lonely kids who wore trenchcoats, you know? I worry that the message here empowers people to think that they can spot the future killers and that they'll present obvious signs - and what those signs are may get warped. Not all kids who fit a certain stereotype are actually budding killers.

 

Very well said.

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To me, based on the video alone, it had less to do with gun violence and more to do with the fact that troubled kids are in our midst and we don't realize it.

 

But the fact that it's Sandy Hook parents who made it (not to mention the ending) says to me that it's about mass shootings, especially school shootings.

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But the fact that it's Sandy Hook parents who made it (not to mention the ending) says to me that it's about mass shootings, especially school shootings.

 

Yes, that's true!  Except I didn't even notice that part until Sadie pointed it out.

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I saw it the other day, no trigger warning, and I don't care for it. I don't mind a reminder to kids to be kind and to notice kids who tend to be the lonely, the outcasts.

 

But I don't care for the insinuation that if kids just "do more" (notice more, reach out to others more, etc.), they can prevent school shootings. That's putting an awful lot of weight on a child's shoulders (because that's what teens are, children), when adults don't even notice all the signs. (And there's also the somewhat lesser perspective of setting future adults, especially girls, up for the "you just have to do more" mentality that is so pervasive these days, especially in mothers.). You know who's responsible for school shootings? School shooters. Oh, I do agree that we do need better mental health care and all, but it's no other teen's fault if a teen shoots up his or her classmates.

 

My other objection to the video is that the kid was doing plenty that wasn't suspicious. I live in an area where many people shoot, hunt, etc. For a teenage boy who has grown up hunting with his grandfather or practicing at the range with his dad, looking at gun videos online or a gun magazine is very normal and hardly a big deal. And a trench coat? Really? Are we going to be suspicious of every teen who looks at a gun video or who wears a trench coat or who is pretty non-outgoing? That's an awful lot of suspicion.

 

The video does have some good points. We do need to teach our teens to stand up for those who are bullied and to be kind to those around them as much as possible

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I saw it the other day, no trigger warning, and I don't care for it. I don't mind a reminder to kids to be kind and to notice kids who tend to be the lonely, the outcasts.

 

But I don't care for the insinuation that if kids just "do more" (notice more, reach out to others more, etc.), they can prevent school shootings. That's putting an awful lot of weight on a child's shoulders (because that's what teens are, children), when adults don't even notice all the signs. (And there's also the somewhat lesser perspective of setting future adults, especially girls, up for the "you just have to do more" mentality that is so pervasive these days, especially in mothers.). You know who's responsible for school shootings? School shooters. Oh, I do agree that we do need better mental health care and all, but it's no other teen's fault if a teen shoots up his or her classmates.

 

My other objection to the video is that the kid was doing plenty that wasn't suspicious. I live in an area where many people shoot, hunt, etc. For a teenage boy who has grown up hunting with his grandfather or practicing at the range with his dad, looking at gun videos online or a gun magazine is very normal and hardly a big deal. And a trench coat? Really? Are we going to be suspicious of every teen who looks at a gun video or who wears a trench coat or who is pretty non-outgoing? That's an awful lot of suspicion.

 

The video does have some good points. We do need to teach our teens to stand up for those who are bullied and to be kind to those around them as much as possible

 

Really? So if a child is bullied relentlessly for years and finally snaps, the bullies have absolutely no responsibility? What if the child only takes his or her own life? Then do the bullies have to shoulder some of the blame? 

 

The way we treat the people around us has consequences.

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I saw it the other day, no trigger warning, and I don't care for it. I don't mind a reminder to kids to be kind and to notice kids who tend to be the lonely, the outcasts.

 

But I don't care for the insinuation that if kids just "do more" (notice more, reach out to others more, etc.), they can prevent school shootings. That's putting an awful lot of weight on a child's shoulders (because that's what teens are, children), when adults don't even notice all the signs. (And there's also the somewhat lesser perspective of setting future adults, especially girls, up for the "you just have to do more" mentality that is so pervasive these days, especially in mothers.). You know who's responsible for school shootings? School shooters. Oh, I do agree that we do need better mental health care and all, but it's no other teen's fault if a teen shoots up his or her classmates.

 

My other objection to the video is that the kid was doing plenty that wasn't suspicious. I live in an area where many people shoot, hunt, etc. For a teenage boy who has grown up hunting with his grandfather or practicing at the range with his dad, looking at gun videos online or a gun magazine is very normal and hardly a big deal. And a trench coat? Really? Are we going to be suspicious of every teen who looks at a gun video or who wears a trench coat or who is pretty non-outgoing? That's an awful lot of suspicion.

 

The video does have some good points. We do need to teach our teens to stand up for those who are bullied and to be kind to those around them as much as possible

 

I interpreted it more as being observant. Kids should not feel they are responsible for someone else's actions but they are responsible for their own. So if you observe someone being excluded or someone who is isolating a lot, a kid can make an attempt to reach out. This may not be enough but it would be a start.

 

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https://markmanson.net/school-shootings

 

I read an article similar to this but longer a while back. I think it does a good job explaining why mass shootings happen and how they are not the reasons people typically think. Mass shootings are not caused by bullying causing someone to snap. Bullying is not cool and it very much has negative consequences on individuals who go through but it is not why mass shootings occur.

Edited by MistyMountain
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You know who's responsible for school shootings? School shooters. Oh, I do agree that we do need better mental health care and all, but it's no other teen's fault if a teen shoots up his or her classmates.

 

 

And the only person responsible for a teen's suicide is the teen. Um, no.

 

Actually, homicidal acting out and suicide are closely related. As humans, we are all responsible for how we interact in society. Every action is a choice and has a consequence.

 

Isolating a peer through bullying and other behavior can alter that peer's ability to make reasonable decisions. Sometimes the choice of another person is the consequence of behavior of others.

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I have mixed feelings of how to look at this stuff. After Columbine it seemed like there were people who wanted to further target kids who are different and not popular. Being someone who was an outsider growing up and having a kid I knew was a bit different even when he was do little at that time, that was disturbing. It was almost another way to bully nerdy kids and it was acceptable under "safety."

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For people who are worried about hunting as a kid's hobby, it should be pretty obvious interest in hunting rifles and target practice can be distinguished from interest in assist weapons and destruction. These differences show up in how the person talks about the concepts, writes about it on social media or in an English essay, or in the photo posing at the end of a hunting trip as opposed to just posing with weapons.

 

I'm not into hunting, but I can see differences.

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I saw it without any context other than "can you solve the mystery"?  I thought it was powerful.

 

 

i also thought about, if this is by a foundation set up after the Sandy Hook shootings, what else they might have done to get as many views. If they'd done a video explicit about the topic at all, far fewer people would have engaged with it.  So, in that sense, it was effective. It also brought me to tears so it was effective that way as well.

 

I am also not surprised it makes some people very angry and defensive. It is very uncomfortable.  But in general the reaction I see indicates it acheived its goal of managing to bring the topic into the limelight-during the holidays.  Which is fair enough, really. because that's when all those children were killed in Sandy Hook.

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https://markmanson.net/school-shootings

 

I read an article similar to this but longer a while back. I think it does a good job explaining why mass shootings happen and how they are not the reasons people typically think. Mass shootings are not caused by bullying causing someone to snap. Bullying is not cool and it very much has negative consequences on individuals who go through but it is not why mass shootings occur.

 

I read this , and it seems like his point is: "Gun control gets the headlines. Mental health care gets the headlines. Violence and video games and misogyny and internet forums and atheism — the list is endless at this point.  Here’s what doesn’t get the headlines: Empathy. Listening to those around you.  Listening to those around you. Even if you don’t like them very much. We have come to live in a culture where it’s taboo or unacceptable to simply check in with people emotionally and offer some empathy and understanding......."  Which is pretty clearly the point of the video we just watched, wouldn't you say?   Right around you, hiding in plain site, there are clues, if you only look past your own nose.

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Just watched this and noticed the "shooter- kid" in the background a lot---  I was thinking all along that "Evan" was in some way helping this kid feel more connected (I thought it was the "shooter-kid" who was writing the messages with "Evan" and that, in the end, they would somehow meet up and be friends--?)

 

I was mostly surprised that it ended up to be a girl he was writing messages with-- but not terribly surprised that "shooter-kid" came in with a gun.   Don't know what that says about me.  :huh:

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Just watched this and noticed the "shooter- kid" in the background a lot---  I was thinking all along that "Evan" was in some way helping this kid feel more connected (I thought it was the "shooter-kid" who was writing the messages with "Evan" and that, in the end, they would somehow meet up and be friends--?)

 

I was mostly surprised that it ended up to be a girl he was writing messages with-- but not terribly surprised that "shooter-kid" came in with a gun.   Don't know what that says about me.  :huh:

I noticed the "shooter-kid" as well. I thought Evan was the going to be the shooter (bored, defacing school property, didn't seem plugged into his friendships, etc), and the shy kid in the background was reaching out to him.

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Agreeing that it was attention grabbing. I also think a lot of the signs were things a lot of teenage boys do. I know several who have posed with handguns for profile pictures, looked at gun magazines, or seemed anti social. The idea seems to be "police our own" in the same sort of way that people might watch for other types of extremism.

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The clues they leave tends to be writing or talking about very violent destructive things. They want to be known for these acts and are not doing because of bullying. I would not expect other teens to pick up on that although some have mentioned things to other kids and kids do not think it is serious. I do not think it is anyone else's fault but knowing that people talk or write about these things and that if you see that to find out where it is coming from.

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Empathy isn't going to solve mass gun crime.  

 

I am more uncomfortable with this video each time I see it.

 

My new concern is that the shooter is framed in such a way as to seem defiant, not in need, and for his actions to seem logical, arising out of what people did to him.

 

Frankly, I think that's dangerous. There's no way I'd be showing it as a so called teaching tool in a classroom. 

 

Anti bullyingand inclusive strategies and lessons already exist, without giving us the image of the outsider armed with a gun.

 

I can only think that SH parents are so demoralized by lack of actual action, that they are trying to come at the problem from a different direction. Which is understandable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by StellaM
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Empathy isn't going to solve mass gun crime.  

 

I am more uncomfortable with this video each time I see it.

 

My new concern is that the shooter is framed in such a way as to seem defiant, not in need, and for his actions to seem logical, arising out of what people did to him.

 

Frankly, I think that's dangerous. There's no way I'd be showing it as a so called teaching tool in a classroom. 

 

Anti bullyingand inclusive strategies and lessons already exist, without giving us the image of the outsider armed with a gun.

 

I can only think that SH parents are so demoralized by lack of actual action, that they are trying to come at the problem from a different direction. Which is understandable.

 

Yeah, this is kind of where I am with it. The further I get from when I first saw it a couple of days ago, the more flawed I think it is. And not because Sandy Hook parents are bad or even misguided... I suspect their hands are just so tied to do anything. It makes me angry for them, not at them.

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The point is to download and read the info on preventing gun violence. The rest is just attention grabbing packaging. 

 

Gun violence is because people are seriously messed up, not because people have guns.  People have always had guns in this country, since the beginning.  They didn't always mow down classmates. 

That's the message that always bothers me about anti-gun stuff. 

 

I didn't hear any anti-knife or anti-vehicle stuff last week after Ohio State.

 

About the video....um, we were watching Evan because EVAN was the only one on the screen!  In real life, we may have noticed signs of trouble.  So this video is just odd to me. 

Edited by TranquilMind
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Gun violence is because people are seriously messed up, not because people have guns.  People have always had guns in this country, since the beginning.  They didn't always mow down classmates. 

That's the message that always bothers me about anti-gun stuff. 

 

I didn't hear any anti-knife or anti-vehicle stuff last week after Ohio State.

 

About the video....um, we were watching Evan because EVAN was the only one on the screen!  In real life, we may have noticed signs of trouble.  So this video is just odd to me. 

 

Yeah, I'm not going to go there.

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