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I do not understand why people eschew modern medicine. JAWM

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Oh and what about "ionized water" and "ionic breeze"? I don't know anything about them but my nearly bankruot parents are paying $800 a month for his magic flax seed oil plus ionized water.

 

 

Sigh...

 

Shucks, I could get a trip to Niagara Falls in for that.  I'm sure the ionized water there is much better at healing.  ;)

 

Every couple of months one could opt for the Caribbean too - ionized water and radiation (from the sun).  Can't beat that combo, right?   :coolgleamA:   One could add chemo with a Mojito or two.

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I know several who have had motorcyle or atv accidents. The standard of care here at the ER is to send them home if it the xray shows simpe rib fractures and there are no immediate signs of internal bleeding plus the pupils dont indicate concussion. So, yes, they reach for a bottle of _____ after calling for a friend to drive them to urgent care. Who needs a 5k bill for an ambulance ride to an ER, a flashlight check, a chest xray, and an Rx for an otc nonnarcotic painkiller?

 

Suit yourself.  I prefer tests to know there's nothing wrong rather than taking a risk if there are fractures, and with a broken arm/leg/etc, I'd prefer having it set correctly to let it heal over having someone with no experience trying to do that part for me.

 

My kiddo had a broken shoulder bone once (from gym class at school).  It was worth it to know there was no extra damage (and health share covered the bill anyway).

 

As stated before, I like proof from tests.  My family medical history is way too outside the realm of "normal" to trust much in intuition - even from doctors.

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Creekland, I really love your prescription! We should go into business and heal the world for great profit then build our dream houses in Trinidad or Costa Rica!:D

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Creekland, I really love your prescription! We should go into business and heal the world for great profit then build our dream houses in Trinidad or Costa Rica! :D

 

Maybe we've found our calling???

 

Just gotta get over that "ethical" bit.  (sigh)

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. Who needs a 5k bill for an ambulance ride to an ER, a flashlight check, a chest xray, and an Rx for an otc nonnarcotic painkiller?

 

Same people who have tumors biopsied and are glad to find out they're benign.

 

You're paying to make sure there isn't something terribly wrong.

 

You can have a spinal fracture and still walk... until suddenly you can't. You can have a splenic bleed and still walk, until you can't maintain blood pressure anymore. 

 

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Haven't read all the replies, but I do know that my DH would not be here right now if not for chemo.  After a couple weeks of shortness of breath/back pain (not unusual when one is overweight) it was found he had a large mass in his chest and liquid around his lungs/partially collapsed lung. Dx = stage 4 lymphoma.

 

Yes, the treatment was horrendous.  Chemo caused internal bleeding, clots, pneumonia, and other issues like ongoing neuropathy in his limbs.  But, in the end, the mass is gone, the cancer appears gone.  He's improving and he's alive.

 

I'm thankful for modern medicine but I understand that it isn't perfect.

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Okay whacky family member wants me to smuggle a bottle of "wintergreen" tincture into the infectious disease ward in order to cure his pneumonia.

 

Uhm no I think not. Sigh

 

But there you have it folks, wintergreen berries and leaves soaked in vodka will cure your life threatening lung disease! Grrrrrrr

 

I shouls write a novel based on the drama of this past 15 months. I am sure a blockbustrr comedy or horror movie - could go either way - would made from it. Then Creekland and I cam have our tropical paradise retirement homes without becoming snake oil salesmen!

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Ones ability to change doctors really depends on insurance. I consider myself lucky to have easily been able to change pediatric neurologists when highly recommended Dr. Know-it-all tell mom she's stupid almost shut down my dds liver. Most people bring have the ability to just make another appointment and get on a waiting list because they are a new patient. I had a similar experience with a pediatric gastroenterologist.

 

As long as consumers and practitioners, including allopaths, understand the limits of their specialty lots of complementary approaches can work with allopathic medicine.

 

It's very sad when something like the op happens and the patient doesn't fully evaluate. But after dealing with some awful highly trained MDs, I know how some people go down that path.

 

and then it can become wearisome to have to find a new dr.  again. sigh.

 

Yes. While it's not as big as the pharmaceutical industry, supplements and other alternative medicines are a multi-billion dollar industry. Yet, you don't hear people complaining about Big Supp or Big Alt-med. It's like they think all that stuff is just some very concerned person who has the secret cure* for everything and mixes concoctions in his or her kitchen.

 

*That's another thing that gets me. 

 

The secret doctors won't tell you

The secret food that will extend your life

The secret natural product that-

The secret ....

 

Like there are these big medical secrets scientists and doctors are keeping from people because...because why? They want people to die?  :rolleyes:

 

I've had good luck with specific supplements for very specific things. (that doesn't mean everything) that said - there are a LOT of carp sups out there, for which I have complete contempt.  and it's not just the one's peddleled by a chiro or shiatsu (I've read what's in them, they're junk.)  etc.etc.  the ones my DOs sold through their office (one was a PCP, the other my gyn) are junk.  I know what forms to look for, and what brands to trust and which certifications matter.

if any vitamin sup will not state what form - it's a complete waste of money and don't even bother.  re: vitamin water. . . . .

 

 

 

 

Yeah for some conditions it makes me wonder as well.

 

My mother had advanced stage ovarian cancer.  She went through 2 major surgeries, 2 rounds of chemo, 2 rounds  of radiation, thousands of dollars worth of drugs to combat side effects, about 20 hospitals stays (where she contracted an antibiotic resistant infection twice that needed constant in home IV treatment), and then died.  She had about three months of time where she was not constantly being treated. And during that time she was in a great deal of mental anguish. 

 

We all believed she might have a chance.  She had no chance and they should have said so. 

 

my mother's dr did that.  she wasn't going to recover, let alone survive off of life-support.  she had catastrophic brain damage from anoxia - and the convulsions that go along with severe brain damage.  rx wouldn't control the convulsions - and the dr was still trying to "be optimistic that she would recover".  I was acquainted with one of the ICU nurses - she took one look at my mother, and said "I am so sorry".  she knew what her condition was.  all the nurses who were attending her knew - she wasn't going to recover.

I did go research the convulsions.  I found two patients who survived off life-support.  they were complete vegetables.  the rest died within six weeks - never regaining consciousness. with one-to-one patient/rn ratios- and the equipment - we're talking tens of thousands of $$ per day.  - not to mention prolonged artificial life-support was something my mother absolutely had made clear she did NOT want.  this is also a hospital that tends to ignore medical directives about life-support/etc.  they require a NEW ONE every single time a patient comes through their doors.  never mind that was the third time in two months.

 

This gets me wondering if anyone has tried any sort of alternative healing for basic broken bones and blood vessels or trauma damaged organs.... ;)

 

"Ma'am, we're going to call an ambulance - you can't walk/breathe/whatever."

 

"Um no, can you get my bottle of ______ instead?  That will work."   :lol:

 

my mother fell and dislocated her shoulder.  good thing it was in a park - and people ran over to help her and called an aid unit.  she didn't want to go to the dr let alone the hospital. the paramedics convinced her to call me and do what I told her to do.  (ER.)

 

and my son . . . about that allopath vs. alternative for broken bones. . . . .after a fall, he fractured a vertebra in his spine.  I didn't know for more than two years.  however!!!   the allopaths did an x-ray -and decided to ignore it because "it's healed".  the pain this kid was in, the vomiting, the ER, the IM narcotics for pain, the IVs for hydration -every three months like clockwork.  the weight he lost, oh, and they were getting worse . . . the testing the allopaths put him through trying to figure out his symptoms.  they couldn't find anything wrong.    but just ignore that fracture because "it's healed". . . . this was the beginning of my distrust of allopaths.

 

it was pinching a nerve.  and yes, it was a chiropractor who diagnosed it - and that WAS the end of his symptoms.

 

my former ped (whom I continued taking kids to long after I should have stopped and found someone else.) censured me for not telling him he'd fallen.  (so why didn't you ask?  that was the *first* thing the chiro did after I described his symptoms.)  he was one who ignored that healed fracture.  he also had a snit because dudeling wouldn't stand on the scale to be weighed at a well-child check.  the kid had undiagnosed aspergers at the time - but this "conventional" DO ped, was having a fit because a non-neurotypical kid wasn't acting neurotypical.

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I have never heard the term "allopathic" until this thread, so I googled it. It is basically a derisive term, yes?

 

"Although medicine never accepted the label of allopathy, nonmedical practitioners such as chiropractors, homeopaths, and naturopaths regularly misrepresent physicians as 'allopaths.' This is usually done in order to make differences between their practice guilds appear based upon conflicting philosophies rather than ideology versus science." (from page 1 of googling it)

It's not derisive at all - it's a useful distinguisher between naturopathic/alternative practice and what could be termed 'clinical medical care and associated drug therapies).

 

A board licensed allergist had allopathic training but may also work with or even recommend treatments from a Chinese herbologist, for example.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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It's not derisive at all - it's a useful distinguisher between naturopathic/alternative practice and what could be termed 'clinical medical care and associated drug therapies).

 

A board licensed allergist had allopathic training but may also work with or even recommend treatments from a Chinese herbologist, for example.

Have you honestly ever met a physician who eschews the title 'doctor' in favor of 'allopath'? I sure haven't.

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Have you honestly ever met a physician who eschews the title 'doctor' in favor of 'allopath'? I sure haven't.

Yes - because two of the biggest clinics in this area are integrated medicine where MDs and ANPs are all employed together and working as a team but with numerous treatment *types* that are not strictly allopathic, so it distinguishes the kind of practice they are doing. It's more common to describe people's services as allopathic or naturopathic though, because of professional licensing requirements - the person is still ________ title.

 

That's where I came across it to begin with - big, popular practices that had both, where my MIL worked for a time. She was the head of the state board of Nursing for a tenure, and also had employment with our spinal clinic and the biggest local pediatric practice. It's not as uncommon as you seem to think and no, it's not derisive. It is a category or group or practice models based off a certain philosophy and mode of care. The term naturopathic is actually much more derisive, because it has been used to mean 'anything not mainstream from herbs and chiropractic to faith healing' with little distinguishing what has actual basis and scientific validation from total woo.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I would really like all naturopaths to have to undertake an MD first and then if they want to go into herbalism or spinal manipulation etc, do that as a specialty AFTER. 

ND training is completely inadequate for primary care imo. 
 

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I would really like all naturopaths to have to undertake an MD first and then if they want to go into herbalism or spinal manipulation etc, do that as a specialty AFTER.

 

ND training is completely inadequate for primary care imo.

 

Yes. And the word doctor should not be legal to use medically speaking unless one actually has the degree, passed the boards. There shoul be no title called Natuopathic Doctor.
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Yes. And the word doctor should not be legal to use medically speaking unless one actually has the degree, passed the boards. There shoul be no title called Natuopathic Doctor.

That's what I am saying though - in most states there isn't, because the terms are regulated in varying degrees by the licensing board. There are also naturopath boards and those have a very different meaning legally, under the state codes, than someone who practices reflexology (who may actually be a licensed massage therapist) or chakra reading (who may also be a licensed massage therapist, but whose practice in this area isn't governed at all by those statutes and regs).

 

These things are actually defined in some areas and titles protected.

 

In our state you cannot call yourself a naturopathic doctor unless you are an MD as certified and defined by the state board, holding an active medical license.. Doctor, like engineer, pharmacist, electrician, etc, is a title that can only be legally ascribed to someone having completed certain license and test standards as specifics by the governing board. And we do NOT have a naturopathic association or board yet, though they are being urged to form one, so both doctors and unlicensed practitioners can utilize the techniques or services but. Either can legally claim a title of practice that is regulated by state statute yet.

 

That's why I am saying we have doctors and nurses who are both, because the designation describes the general kind of service offered, not so much a title or even a personal slight. As a member of a professional board myself and with a husband. FIL, and MIL who are all licensed through boards as well, this is something that we deal with a lot. Words matter, and someone using the title of a profession illegally will be reported around here.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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With regard to the original question, I would say that humans in general rely heavily on testimonials when making decisions. Marketers of alternative health stuff know this and make heavy use of it.

 

Maybe traditional/science based medicine needs to do more marketing.

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So yeah, if you see someone who is calling themselves a Reiki doctor and isn't an MD, report them to the board with their business card or literature claiming the title. Same thing with an herbologist claiming a pharmacy title, or someone who says they are an engineer without a PE. This is an area where some of the worst hucksters can indeed be shut down or at least augment their claims to match their defensible credentials, which helps inform the consumer.

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With regard to the original question, I would say that humans in general rely heavily on testimonials when making decisions. Marketers of alternative health stuff know this and make heavy use of it.

 

Maybe traditional/science based medicine needs to do more marketing.

NO MORE CIALIS COMMERCIALS!!!! :lol:

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Reiki from a distance??? Well beam me up Scottie!!! I dod not know that telepathic healing had been perfected.

 

If she is healing me from afar, she is doing a very poor job of it. My permanently injured, messed up ankle from the car crash isn't getting any better. Ds's crushed femur still has a titanium rod and six screws with arthritis setting in. She needs to heal my kid.

 

To be fair, when he was in so much pain and still trying to grow bone, taking gargantuan calcium pills that he hated, she made him organic butter oil which is high in D3 and a nice calcium powder concoction that he could mix with juice. It made supplementing so much better for him. She would come and massage his leg and stretch it before he was eligible for physical therapy just to help ease the hurt.

 

So she does care very much about people. It is the mystical weirdness land wild claims she makes that are hard to deal with.

 

I view it having some effective components and some not so effective. This is why careful research and a combination of approaches can work.

 

Regarding the title "Doctor" I agree that only someone who has completed a doctoral program should hold that title. There is a university of Naturopathic Medicine somewhere in the PNW that has doctoral programs. I believe the title is Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine.

Edited by Liz CA

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But there you have it folks, wintergreen berries and leaves soaked in vodka will cure your life threatening lung disease! 

 

We can provide this.  (Just sayin'... should things not work out with Plan A aka your novel.)   :closedeyes:

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I would really like all naturopaths to have to undertake an MD first and then if they want to go into herbalism or spinal manipulation etc, do that as a specialty AFTER. 

 

ND training is completely inadequate for primary care imo. 

 

 

I often think that theoretically, I might be happy to have access to the rigt naturopath.

 

But all the ones I have actually seen seem to be promoting therapies that I think are pretty clearly either woo or making a mint out of selling supplements and such. 

 

I'm not willing to trust the judgement of someone who is working with those therapies.  But more than that, I don't think the training can be all that great when so many of them are peddling bunk.

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NO MORE CIALIS COMMERCIALS!!!! :lol:

 

it was a big mistake for the consumer when pharmaceutical companies were able to start advertising to the public.  I hate drug advertising.

 

I often think that theoretically, I might be happy to have access to the rigt naturopath.

 

But all the ones I have actually seen seem to be promoting therapies that I think are pretty clearly either woo or making a mint out of selling supplements and such. 

 

I'm not willing to trust the judgement of someone who is working with those therapies.  But more than that, I don't think the training can be all that great when so many of them are peddling bunk.

 

I see a ND (they're legally recognized and licensed in my state, neither is against allopaths) for my thyroid and my son see's one for his asd. they both sell supplements - which I do not buy from them.  I buy them off amazon. sometimes  for less, but it also allows me to find something comparable, for less.  and yes, we can see the difference.  they both also write prescriptions that are filled at the pharmacy.

 

as for the supplements themselves . . . one brand I have taken is Thorne mthf (I am homozygous for a mthf mutation that has caused serious illnesses in my family.  much like the brca gene is related to breast cancer.) there is NO OTHER otc of mthf I'm willing to buy.  quality is too big an issue for it. . . there is a prescription form called deplin (higher dose).  I've also taken deplin - it was a step-backwards in how I felt from the thorne.  my current ND found a compounding pharmacy that sources their mthf from the same place as thorne.  (for a lot less than thorne, but slightly more than deplin).  I switched, and after three days, "yep, that's what it's supposed to feel like."

thorne does do lots of third party testing, and extremely high standards.  the USolympic committee now allows them as a supplement brand because of their quality.

 

the girl with mitochondrial  disease who was essentially held prisoner by boston children's, who stopped her supplements and she suffered serious regression before she was released, uses thorne supplements.  I recognized the bottles.  (they all have a pix of some crystal on the front.).  I wonder how she's doing. she was ice skating when she went in, and in a wheelchair when they finally let her go.

Edited by gardenmom5
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Surgery and chemo saved my sister. She would have been dead by 30 otherwise. Aggressive breast cancer caught and treated early.

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I agree. I dont understand why they dont do the treatments together if they wish.

 

We had this same situation occur in our homeschool group. A mum was diagnosed with leukemia. Her blood iron was so low the doctors wanted to give her a transfusion before starting treatment. They said no..they wanted to build her iron "naturally" with some product or something. Three weeks later she died from cardiac arrest due to low iron ..she didnt even get a chance to start treatment and died from something that was totally preventable.

 

The husband blames the doctors saying it was their bad advice that killed her ...yet all along they told them it was a bad idea and her iron levels needed to be bought up quickly through a transfusion. The husband claimed the " product" had been working and the doctors admitted it. What he doesnt seem to grasp is that yes the product was lifting her iron levels a little...but she was completely anaemic and need to lift her iron levels to normal immediately...not over several months. She died so needlessly without even getting in the starting gate of treatment and they had two,lovely young boys. I just couldn't risk that with kids... I would eat nuclear waste and deal with the side effects if it was a cure that would keep me alive for my kids sake.

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I agree. I dont understand why they dont do the treatments together if they wish.

 

We had this same situation occur in our homeschool group. A mum was diagnosed with leukemia. Her blood iron was so low the doctors wanted to give her a transfusion before starting treatment. They said no..they wanted to build her iron "naturally" with some product or something. Three weeks later she died from cardiac arrest due to low iron ..she didnt even get a chance to start treatment and died from something that was totally preventable.

 

The husband blames the doctors saying it was their bad advice that killed her ...yet all along they told them it was a bad idea and her iron levels needed to be bought up quickly through a transfusion. The husband claimed the " product" had been working and the doctors admitted it. What he doesnt seem to grasp is that yes the product was lifting her iron levels a little...but she was completely anaemic and need to lift her iron levels to normal immediately...not over several months. She died so needlessly without even getting in the starting gate of treatment and they had two,lovely young boys. I just couldn't risk that with kids... I would eat nuclear waste and deal with the side effects if it was a cure that would keep me alive for my kids sake.

That is sooooo sad, and just tragic because the anemia death was so preventable.

 

The worst I personally know of is the girl on my floor in college who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes but believed that a homeopathic remedy would cure her. She passed out and dropped into a coma in the women's restroom just off the rec center swimming pool. Since it was midday and not open swimming or class time no one was around. She was found too late and could not be revived.

 

19 years old. I felt so awful for her parents.

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FWIW, I think people get into these things to some extent because they want to be in charge. It becomes a control issue -- "I make the decisions on my terms with my box of essential oils."

 

 

 

I also often think about what it is that makes us trust medicine in the first place. Certainly it can help, but sometimes it doesn't. Accepting that can be very difficult. Some people don't "get" that allopathic medicine has limitations. They feel insulted if they can't be healed, and that drives them to alternative medicine that won't work either.

 

Or they assume that allopathic medicine will resolve the problem 100% of the time. Those in the medical field laugh at that, but sometimes people believe that doctors have all the answers.

 

 

I once read something (can't remember where) where it said modern medicine is not as advanced as people like to think and there is still actually precious little that doctors can truely cure. Most diseases, conditions etc are simply managed to extend life and give a better quality. If it can't be cut out or repaired by surgery or killed by antibiotics then it basically becomes about management. And thats true...doctors can't cure diabetes, asthma, thyriod issues, MS, etc etc they only have treatments that manage them to keep them from becoming life threatening... and sometimes even these measures dont always work.

 

Cancer is like that...there is no real cure that guarentees it wont come back later... its a crapshoot. It depends on how a person responds, whether it is contained and can be all removed surgically, etc etc. The real goal for most is to extend life. Some get lucky and it is permanantly cured. My best friend in high schools mother had leukemia as a kid...this was in the 50s. She was treated then with medicine nowhere near as refined as nowadays yet it never came back and she is still living in her 80s now. My grandmother had lung cancer in her 20's. the docotor removed her lung with no other treatment. She died of reoccurance lung cancer in her 60's but she raised her kids and had teen grandchildren by then.

 

So very few ailments can actually truely be cured...most are just simply treated and managed to prevent death as long as possible.

 

And yes..I Do wish my mother would stop telling me about her friend who cured her asthma with positive thinking...implying that I could do the same thing "if I really wanted to" . Yes..because I enjoy not being able to breathe well so much that I would rather gasp for air and go broke on expensive meds then to "think myself well". 🙄🙄

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I think more positively when my brain has enough oxygen for me to stay conscious :blink:

 

Thankfully nobody has ever given me the positive thinking line of bull for my own conditions.

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I once read something (can't remember where) where it said modern medicine is not as advanced as people like to think and there is still actually precious little that doctors can truely cure. Most diseases, conditions etc are simply managed to extend life and give a better quality. If it can't be cut out or repaired by surgery or killed by antibiotics then it basically becomes about management. And thats true...doctors can't cure diabetes, asthma, thyriod issues, MS, etc etc they only have treatments that manage them to keep them from becoming life threatening... and sometimes even these measures dont always work.

 

Cancer is like that...there is no real cure that guarentees it wont come back later... its a crapshoot. It depends on how a person responds, whether it is contained and can be all removed surgically, etc etc. The real goal for most is to extend life. Some get lucky and it is permanantly cured. My best friend in high schools mother had leukemia as a kid...this was in the 50s. She was treated then with medicine nowhere near as refined as nowadays yet it never came back and she is still living in her 80s now. My grandmother had lung cancer in her 20's. the docotor removed her lung with no other treatment. She died of reoccurance lung cancer in her 60's but she raised her kids and had teen grandchildren by then.

 

So very few ailments can actually truely be cured...most are just simply treated and managed to prevent death as long as possible.

 

And yes..I Do wish my mother would stop telling me about her friend who cured her asthma with positive thinking...implying that I could do the same thing "if I really wanted to" . Yes..because I enjoy not being able to breathe well so much that I would rather gasp for air and go broke on expensive meds then to "think myself well". 🙄🙄

 

I agree it's not as advanced as people think - but it's better than where we were just 50 years ago. (or even 20 years ago.)  I'll take it thanks.

 

I listened to a talk given by a pioneer in cardiac surgery.  he made the comment that the human body has the ability to self-repair.  when it can't/because it is exhausted or the injury/illness is too grave - medicine is there to help it reach the point it can again self-repair.   there are trauma patients who've died - not because of the actual injury - but because it overwhelmed their system (re: going into shock) causing it to shut down.  supporting "the system" (treating shock), made it possible to treat the injury so the patient could "self-heal".

 

even with cancer treatment - the treatment is directed to kill the cancer cells, so the body can handle the rest of the repairs.

this was from a man who developed techniques that are still used in open heart surgery today. 

positive attitude does make a difference in our healing - but  it's an appendage to more direct  treatment, not in place of.

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Yes, doctors don't heal anything per se, rather their job is to help the body heal itself by supporting function and mending damage to the point that the body can begin to fight infection, knit back together damaged tissues, rebuild depleted organs or stores from nutrition, etc.

 

I often wonder if that missing nuance is where people begin to get very jaded by overpromising treatments of all kinds? Even my dear grandma, who had congenital club foot and arthritis for most of her life, wasn't really 'healed' by doctors for the year she spent in the hospital as a child. They fused bones and cut tendons and braced her so she wouldn't walk on the sides of her feet, but if her body could not heal the cut tissue and rebuild the bones in the corrected position she would have never gotten semi-normal function. The wonderful team who helped her (paid for by the March of Dimes, her family was desperately poor immigrant farmers) had the job of reshaping her deformed limbs and preventing infection, as well as fixing long term malnutrition to strengthen her whole body for the task, but they themselves could 'heal' nothing in the sense of actually restoring and curing it. Treatment and care, but not 'healing'.

 

I'm thinking aloud here, excuse the ramble. And I miss her a lot!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Yes, doctors don't heal anything per se, rather their job is to help the body heal itself by supporting function and mending damage to the point that the body can begin to fight infection, knit back together damaged tissues, rebuild depleted organs or stores from nutrition, etc.

 

I often wonder if that missing nuance is where people begin to get very jaded by overpromising treatments of all kinds?

 

probably.  nuance should never be underestimated.

 

I was recently somewhere where a person started in on government conspiracies and *chem*trails.   I tried to tell them it was "*CON*trails, short for "condensation". (I didn't go into too much detail about temperature differences, and moisture content of the air, etc.)  he just got angry . . . . this is what comes from not knowing what is actually being said.   then people change it, and run with it and think their misspelled word is the right one and the correct is the loony-toons.

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probably.  nuance should never be underestimated.

 

I was recently somewhere where a person started in on government conspiracies and *chem*trails.   I tried to tell them it was "*CON*trails, short for "condensation". (I didn't go into too much detail about temperature differences, and moisture content of the air, etc.)  he just got angry . . . . this is what comes from not knowing what is actually being said.   then people change it, and run with it and think their misspelled word is the right one and the correct is the loony-toons.

 

Well, today at school I made sure my 9th grade (General Science) kids knew that the air we breathe (and that comes to us in airplanes, etc) is NOT pure Oxygen (and why!) due to that thread from a couple of weeks ago where someone said it was (or should be) in a blog.

 

The good thing is each class had someone come up with the correct gas that dominates in our atmosphere (Nitrogen).  Most kids guessed incorrectly, but that's to be expected (more or less) at their age, so that didn't bother me at all.  They're learning.

 

When I explained "why" I gave both the science reason (why it's helpful considering how much Oxygen reacts with everything vs Nitrogen that does not) and the blog reason (you really don't want to look uneducated later on in life, right?).

 

Perhaps the more we teach the next generation the better our future will be?

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Well, today at school I made sure my 9th grade (General Science) kids knew that the air we breathe (and that comes to us in airplanes, etc) is NOT pure Oxygen (and why!) due to that thread from a couple of weeks ago where someone said it was (or should be) in a blog.

 

The good thing is each class had someone come up with the correct gas that dominates in our atmosphere (Nitrogen).  Most kids guessed incorrectly, but that's to be expected (more or less) at their age, so that didn't bother me at all.  They're learning.

 

When I explained "why" I gave both the science reason (why it's helpful considering how much Oxygen reacts with everything vs Nitrogen that does not) and the blog reason (you really don't want to look uneducated later on in life, right?).

 

Perhaps the more we teach the next generation the better our future will be?

 

 I remember when 2ds brought home the petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide.  (it's a major component of acid rain!)  the *scariest* thing about it, a class of college freshman *chemistry* students signed it.  :svengo:

then there were the women at the university of vermont who signed a petition to ban women's suffrage.  (the proponents were trying to get the message across about how carpy civics education was.)

 

eta: he brought the thing home more as a joke.  middle school.  even he knew what it was.  we had a good laugh.

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Yes - because two of the biggest clinics in this area are integrated medicine where MDs and ANPs are all employed together and working as a team but with numerous treatment *types* that are not strictly allopathic, so it distinguishes the kind of practice they are doing. It's more common to describe people's services as allopathic or naturopathic though, because of professional licensing requirements - the person is still ________ title.

 

That's where I came across it to begin with - big, popular practices that had both, where my MIL worked for a time. She was the head of the state board of Nursing for a tenure, and also had employment with our spinal clinic and the biggest local pediatric practice. It's not as uncommon as you seem to think and no, it's not derisive. It is a category or group or practice models based off a certain philosophy and mode of care. The term naturopathic is actually much more derisive, because it has been used to mean 'anything not mainstream from herbs and chiropractic to faith healing' with little distinguishing what has actual basis and scientific validation from total woo.

 

Must be an Alaska thing. I have literally never heard the word allopath before today.  I am fairly familiar with various medical terms.  I don't work in medicine but I  buried my dad two weeks ago, after two years of cancer treatments.

 

His oncologist explained he was in palliative care from the start.   But, I don't know if that doc ever sat down and explained what palliative care is.  I assume he did, but, I wasn't there for that first conversation.  (My parents both knew the term, and its implications).    Perhaps that's the problem with a few of the people who've posted here who were stunned that treatment didn't = cure.  Bad communication.   We met a lot of oncologists over the course of treatment and some of them were not great communicators.

 

I don't know what "naturopath" means and it's not a term I use.  Just not part of my world. 

 

My husband and I both go to ODs instead of an MDs- so - we are not anti-whole-body health in any way.

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 I remember when 2ds brought home the petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide.  (it's a major component of acid rain!)  the *scariest* thing about it, a class of college freshman *chemistry* students signed it.  :svengo:

 

I like to think the chemistry kids signed it with a laugh too.  I know that could happen where I work... (kids sign it knowing full well it's a joke as the majority know what water is chemically.)

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 I have literally never heard the word allopath before today.  I am fairly familiar with various medical terms.  I don't work in medicine but I  buried my dad two weeks ago, after two years of cancer treatments.

 

 

 

I don't know what "naturopath" means and it's not a term I use.  Just not part of my world. 

 

 

 

I've heard the term allopathic but only from alternative medicine types, and yes as a pejorative. Medical doctors just call themselves doctors, not allopathic doctors. 

 

Naturopath = not a real doctor (even if their state licenses them as if they are) or one who eschews his/her real medical training.

Naturopathy = pseudomedicine based on pseudoscience

 

Naturopathic Diaries is a blog by a former Naturopath who came to realize that Naturopathy is not only ineffective but very often harmful.

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I once read something (can't remember where) where it said modern medicine is not as advanced as people like to think and there is still actually precious little that doctors can truely cure. Most diseases, conditions etc are simply managed to extend life and give a better quality. If it can't be cut out or repaired by surgery or killed by antibiotics then it basically becomes about management. And thats true...doctors can't cure diabetes, asthma, thyriod issues, MS, etc etc they only have treatments that manage them to keep them from becoming life threatening... and sometimes even these measures dont always work.

 

Cancer is like that...there is no real cure that guarentees it wont come back later... its a crapshoot. It depends on how a person responds, whether it is contained and can be all removed surgically, etc etc. The real goal for most is to extend life. Some get lucky and it is permanantly cured. My best friend in high schools mother had leukemia as a kid...this was in the 50s. She was treated then with medicine nowhere near as refined as nowadays yet it never came back and she is still living in her 80s now. My grandmother had lung cancer in her 20's. the docotor removed her lung with no other treatment. She died of reoccurance lung cancer in her 60's but she raised her kids and had teen grandchildren by then.

 

So very few ailments can actually truely be cured...most are just simply treated and managed to prevent death as long as possible.

 

And yes..I Do wish my mother would stop telling me about her friend who cured her asthma with positive thinking...implying that I could do the same thing "if I really wanted to" . Yes..because I enjoy not being able to breathe well so much that I would rather gasp for air and go broke on expensive meds then to "think myself well". 🙄🙄

 

I don't know. We can do some pretty fantastic things. Trauma support. Antivirals. Antiretrovirals. Antibiotics for highly resistant infections that would've killed you 40 years ago. Heart surgery. Organ transplants. Premature infants born before 30 weeks actually surviving and thriving. Babies surviving where you don't expect 20% or more of your kids to die before age 5 as the norm......If that's considered "management" over cure I'll still take it.  :) Look at HIV. People were dropping like flies. Now it's manageable as a long term condition.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect and that we've solved it all. But corporate and governmental politics that muddy the medical waters aside-  I'm very glad to be living now and not 100 years ago. I'd have died of a simple childhood illness. I don't think people give medical science enough due sometimes. It really is amazing what we can do these days. The technology is mindblowing. 

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I have only heard allopathic used as a perjorative by my sister in law and sister. Since these two individuals advocate some practices that should be labeled voodoo, it makes me bristle when they use it so disparagingly about real doctors.

 

My niece though is a fantastic massage therapist. She does good, sound work and does not claim to be more than she is.

 

Meanwhile sil has been trying to heal her thyroid for twenty years the latest method being aligning her life force and drinking certain teas.

 

The infection in dna donor has spread and his chest tube must be removed because it is so contaminated, but sil still claims she is going to cure it "as long as he gets off those poisonous antibiotics now" and my sister hopes he lasts to Dec. 12 when she gets here so she can cure it with frankincense and clovebud oil!!!

 

Un.be.liev.a.ble.

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my sister hopes he lasts to Dec. 12 when she gets here so she can cure it with frankincense and clovebud oil!!!

 

 

Is this the same sister he treated so badly as a youngster?  Because... well... karma...

 

On a different note, my mom's dr won't tell her what her biopsy results are over the phone.  Instead he's made an appt tomorrow to see her and discuss them.  It's really frustrating TBH as now she's thinking the worst.  It could be the worst - we'll find out tomorrow - but WTH is wrong with letting her know rather than dragging this on as if it's some sort of TV drama?  She wants to know - just as I would.  (I talked with her earlier tonight.)

 

I do NOT like the dude at all - quite honestly my first time ever despising a Dr considering what he's put my mom through with all of this (see venting thread and whatever other thread I started a couple of weeks ago when it was "new" if wanting more info).  This is likely another one of his power trip deals.  (sigh)

 

My mom could be thrust into this decision (of what to do) pretty darn quickly, but at least I don't think she has anyone selling her snake oil.

 

In the meantime, I remain hopeful that the news isn't all that bad (benign mass that needs removing) and he's just purely on a power trip.

 

Time will tell.  And I'm at work tomorrow, so will need extra time unless I want hubby letting me know at school - which I don't - just in case.

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(((Hugs))) Creekland

 

 

And yes, the abused one is the sibling out to cure him with quackery.

 

I feel compassion and pity for her. Het determination to cure him is because she is desperate for love and approval from him before he passes.

 

Two years ago he went off on her in such a verbal rage during a visit home from France, that we had to go to the ER because her panic attack was so severe. I am not exagerrating when I say I thought she would have a heart attack.

 

She wants something he is either not capable of giving or too much of a bastard to provide. Sometimes I don't know which. Somedays I think it is unable, and other days that he is just a horrible human. Sigh...

 

I wish I knew how to help sis make peace. She is only 34. Lots of years of good living left if she does not let this eat her alive.

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I once read something (can't remember where) where it said modern medicine is not as advanced as people like to think and there is still actually precious little that doctors can truely cure. Most diseases, conditions etc are simply managed to extend life and give a better quality. If it can't be cut out or repaired by surgery or killed by antibiotics then it basically becomes about management. And thats true...doctors can't cure diabetes, asthma, thyriod issues, MS, etc etc they only have treatments that manage them to keep them from becoming life threatening... and sometimes even these measures dont always work.

 

Cancer is like that...there is no real cure that guarentees it wont come back later... its a crapshoot. It depends on how a person responds, whether it is contained and can be all removed surgically, etc etc. The real goal for most is to extend life. Some get lucky and it is permanantly cured. My best friend in high schools mother had leukemia as a kid...this was in the 50s. She was treated then with medicine nowhere near as refined as nowadays yet it never came back and she is still living in her 80s now. My grandmother had lung cancer in her 20's. the docotor removed her lung with no other treatment. She died of reoccurance lung cancer in her 60's but she raised her kids and had teen grandchildren by then.

 

So very few ailments can actually truely be cured...most are just simply treated and managed to prevent death as long as possible.

 

And yes..I Do wish my mother would stop telling me about her friend who cured her asthma with positive thinking...implying that I could do the same thing "if I really wanted to" . Yes..because I enjoy not being able to breathe well so much that I would rather gasp for air and go broke on expensive meds then to "think myself well". 🙄🙄

 

I don't understand the bold. Disease is understood to be a natural process of organic life that reduces quality and longevity of life. Why would medicine be assumed to do anything other than halt or reverse that process? What do people think the goal of medicine is?

 

My sister is much like the OP's friend, and it scares me to death because I love her so much. We certainly weren't raised to believe this. Somewhere along the line, she became anti-science. And I don't mean she genuinely hates science, she thinks she likes it just fine, but she doesn't realize (or care!) that she has some remarkably erroneous ideas about it. She believes her feelings are more accurate in interpreting her observations than rational, critical analysis. I hear this sentiment a lot from people. An alarming amount. It's alarming because it has the very consequences the OP is watching.

 

I'm not very smart or knowledgeable about medicine, and maybe I'm overly optimistic about the future, but the way I see it is we can reliably address more and more diseases as the centuries go on. And that's a good thing. Yesteryear it was recognizing disease has natural and not magical properties. Yesterday it was figuring out what was causing gay men to die a slow, agonizing death. Today AIDS is no longer considered a public health issue. Tomorrow it will be reversing or containing the symptoms of ALS and MS. Today we can identify cancer before it sounds its death knell, tomorrow we will be able to reverse or contain it, None of us will be around to see the so many cures and treatments that affect us and our loved ones, but that doesn't mean treatments today are a crap-shoot. Knowledge begets more knowledge. Medicine isn't a game of chance. It's nothing like craps. I guess I just don't understand.

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I have very little trust in most doctors.  6 years ago, my father was diagnosed with leukemia.  His doctor told us that it was one of the most curable forms and absolutely cancer would not be what killed my Dad if he consented to the chemo.  The doctor proceeded to kill my father in three months with the chemo.  It was the worst hospital and the most neglectful, horrible doctor I have ever encountered.  I think that it is all a crapshoot and I would honestly have to think twice about submitting myself or my family to chemo after this experience with my Dad.  I can understand why so many lack trust in doctors/hospitals and would rather seek out alternatives.  I don't have much faith in those either but I think I would rather die than go through what he did.  

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On a different note, my mom's dr won't tell her what her biopsy results are over the phone.  Instead he's made an appt tomorrow to see her and discuss them.  It's really frustrating TBH as now she's thinking the worst.  It could be the worst - we'll find out tomorrow - but WTH is wrong with letting her know rather than dragging this on as if it's some sort of TV drama?  She wants to know - just as I would.  (I talked with her earlier tonight.)

 

My Dh went in to get a lump on his neck tested. When the results came in the Dr. called me on the phone to give them to me. At the time I was on the toilet. The phone had rung and one of my kids brought it to me. I found out Dh had cancer well sitting on the crapper. 

 

 

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I like to think the chemistry kids signed it with a laugh too.  I know that could happen where I work... (kids sign it knowing full well it's a joke as the majority know what water is chemically.)

 

from how it was  written - they hadn't had much notation, and really were sincere.

 

Is this the same sister he treated so badly as a youngster?  Because... well... karma...

 

On a different note, my mom's dr won't tell her what her biopsy results are over the phone.  Instead he's made an appt tomorrow to see her and discuss them.  It's really frustrating TBH as now she's thinking the worst.  It could be the worst - we'll find out tomorrow - but WTH is wrong with letting her know rather than dragging this on as if it's some sort of TV drama?  She wants to know - just as I would.  (I talked with her earlier tonight.)

 

I do NOT like the dude at all - quite honestly my first time ever despising a Dr considering what he's put my mom through with all of this (see venting thread and whatever other thread I started a couple of weeks ago when it was "new" if wanting more info).  This is likely another one of his power trip deals.  (sigh)

 

My mom could be thrust into this decision (of what to do) pretty darn quickly, but at least I don't think she has anyone selling her snake oil.

 

In the meantime, I remain hopeful that the news isn't all that bad (benign mass that needs removing) and he's just purely on a power trip.

 

Time will tell.  And I'm at work tomorrow, so will need extra time unless I want hubby letting me know at school - which I don't - just in case.

 

can she go to a different dr?

 

(((Hugs))) Creekland

 

 

And yes, the abused one is the sibling out to cure him with quackery.

 

I feel compassion and pity for her. Het determination to cure him is because she is desperate for love and approval from him before he passes.

 

Two years ago he went off on her in such a verbal rage during a visit home from France, that we had to go to the ER because her panic attack was so severe. I am not exagerrating when I say I thought she would have a heart attack.

 

She wants something he is either not capable of giving or too much of a bastard to provide. Sometimes I don't know which. Somedays I think it is unable, and other days that he is just a horrible human. Sigh...

 

I wish I knew how to help sis make peace. She is only 34. Lots of years of good living left if she does not let this eat her alive.

 

if you figure it out, please let me know.  my sister is also in that place, and both mother and grandmother are dead.  as is our father (she's posted his picture on her fb page a few times, in a "i'm grieving" sort of way.  he died in 75.). she never got the approbation she so craved, and now they're dead.

before my grandmother moved out of her house and into a retirement apartment, I'd gotten to where I didn't give a rats patootie if they approved or not.  (my mother did- but the relationship was still dysfunctional.)

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My Dh went in to get a lump on his neck tested. When the results came in the Dr. called me on the phone to give them to me. At the time I was on the toilet. The phone had rung and one of my kids brought it to me. I found out Dh had cancer well sitting on the crapper. 

 

Wow.

 

In my ideal world folks get info as they want it, not by any single protocol.  Personally I'm a "want to know ASAP" person (as is my mom).  I'd rather the results get sent to ME than the Dr (though both is fine).  I'm ok getting results by phone or internet.  I don't need - or WANT - to be sitting in a doctor's office receiving results.  I want to process them myself first (good, bad, or ugly) and be mentally ready to discuss what's next at an appt.

 

In your situation, I wouldn't mind the place or method, but if I were your DH, I'd be pissed that you found out before I did.  My hubby knows that if any doctor tries to talk with him about me (regarding results), he directs them to telling me.

 

Most of what I don't care for with the US health system isn't the actual doctors (my mom's case being an exception), it's the way our system works.  The patient ought to have a bit of say in how things happen for them - not a "one size fits all" decided by Powers that Be.

 

Many on here know that I'm dealing with ongoing health issues and would really like to pursue the cause - esp since they are progressing (slowly, but still getting worse).  Doctors looked at what is "most likely" (twice) and found nothing - and then gave up wanting to treat symptoms instead calling it "stress."  There are other things they could check out - I specifically asked to have them checked out - money is not an issue.  They won't.  It's too rare and not likely they say.  Get rid of stress they say.  Try the meds they say (those come with their own side effects causing issues like fatigue that I don't have and don't want).

 

I did get rid of stress.  I ditched the dr appts (all, but would go if I broke a bone or something obvious and fixable).  Now if only the health issues would go away rather than progressively getting worse.   :glare:   At least it's slow, but there will come a time when those issues kill me - not necessarily health-wise, but because they drive me to it mentally.  Such is life.  I tried... and I'm not interested in any of the snake oil remedies on this thread - except we will be moving to the Caribbean in a couple of years, so I can test out that radiation and chemo... ;)

 

can she go to a different dr?

 

I have tried suggesting it.  Others have tried suggesting it.  We located one she liked and he's taking new patients, but... she's been with this guy for 30+ years and change is tough.  When it comes to actually doing it, she hasn't.  At least since he's found out she can be believed, he's started doing more for her rather than brushing her off, but his "power trip" personality probably can't be changed.

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Honestly, with cancer, I don't know what I would do. I really think it would just depend on the prognosis. One of the best and most progressive cancer doctors in our area told me (during one of my mom's visits) that if the cancer doesn't kill you, often the damage to your body and organs from treatment will. Chemo is certainly not without its own issues, and I think some people may just prefer to not put themselves through that.

 

I think the key is honesty between doctors and patients.  My father had a round of chemo that put him into remission for a bit.  When the cancer came back, he went onto a trial that didn't work.  At that point, the doctors asked him what he wanted to do next.  He was relatively young (70s) and my half-sisters were only in their twenties.  But the doctors were able to talk through with him the likelihood of any treatment having any appreciable effect, vs. having the time during palliative care to spend time with his family.  He was a highly rational man and decided to maximise the good time that he had left.  We all thought that this was a good decision.  If he had opted for another line of treatment, that would have been available, but the likelihood of success was very low compared to the distress caused.

 

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In your situation, I wouldn't mind the place or method, but if I were your DH, I'd be pissed that you found out before I did.  My hubby knows that if any doctor tries to talk with him about me (regarding results), he directs them to telling me.

Dh was at work at the time, I was at home. We had also signed paperwork stating that everything could be discussed with our spouse. So in our situation what the Dr. Did, telling me and not Dh was fine.

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Cancer depends on what particular subtype it is and when it is detected. Some that were incurable a generation ago have a cure now. I have a friend who has lived 30 years with her cancer....stage 1, with a side effect that developed later and requires an oral daily med. She has seen her children grow up. Another has pancreatic cancer in the family. She took the approach of looking for it, and nipped it in the bud. She has had 15 years, with no side effects and is currently launching her children, having not succumbed as grandmother, mother, and sis did. Same story with a guy from a line of hard drinkers who succumbed to esophageal too early...he had biopsies done and caught it before it was too advanced. Skin cancer...dont forgo your ABCDEs, there is no need to let melanoma advance to death. Cancer doesnt have to lead to an early grave in many cases.

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Suit yourself. I prefer tests to know there's nothing wrong rather than taking a risk if there are fractures, and with a broken arm/leg/etc, I'd prefer having it set correctly to let it heal over having someone with no experience trying to do that part for me.

 

My kiddo had a broken shoulder bone once (from gym class at school). It was worth it to know there was no extra damage (and health share covered the bill anyway).

 

As stated before, I like proof from tests. My family medical history is way too outside the realm of "normal" to trust much in intuition - even from doctors.

I was speaking of simple broken ribs. The standard of care is take one xray, go home and rest, using otc painkillers. If the pain worsens, you go to your primary and they will prescribe a narcotic and some flexoril and tell you how to splint yourself and watch for signs of internal injuries. One is far better off financially taking their bottle of ___, calling a friend for a ride, and using an urgent care than taking an ambulance ride to the ER. The urgent care will do more than the ER. But we are self pay on a high deductible and dont want to take the time to do ER plus primary when UC will do. Yes, the decisions are different when the patient can hand the bill to someone else. Edited by Heigh Ho
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Thank you Lady Florida for that ex Naturopathic link.  I was interested to find out that the MTHFR gene link and blood coagulation link was still investigational.  I know that when I had my giant blood clot and was finally diagnosed with thrombophilia I was sent to a board certified hematologist and that was one of the 29, I think, genetic and immunological factors he tested.  I came out heterozygoes  for one variant of that gene and in his report he did say that it may contribute.  The main genetic factor I had was Factor V Leiden (again heterozygoes) which is definitely not investigational.

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