Who did not like PAH AP Chem, AP Macro and/or AP Eng Lang? (and other PAH Courses)

[...................]

It was my impression that the vast Majority of PAH AP are NOT self study. I've read through so many of the little explanations they offer as well as reviews here and they're mostly asynchronous. Even if you don't. Have a live weekly lecture that doesn't mean it's self study. However, with all that said I would not personally sign up for a class that doesn't have a live weekly component. I believe very strongly that it helps my kid to reconnect with the teacher and reestablish the importance of the subject as well as a the human social component. If I pay 700.00 for an online class I expect at least once live session every week.

[...................]

I really wish Landry would start designing some really well-designed AP courses.  

[freesia]

It was my impression that the vast Majority of PAH AP are NOT self study. I've read through so many of the little explanations they offer as well as reviews here and they're mostly asynchronous. Even if you don't. Have a live weekly lecture that doesn't mean it's self study. However, with all that said I would not personally sign up for a class that doesn't have a live weekly component. I believe very strongly that it helps my kid to reconnect with the teacher and reestablish the importance of the subject as well as a the human social component. If I pay 700.00 for an online class I expect at least once live session every week.

I agree.

[Roadrunner]

I really wish Landry would start designing some really well-designed AP courses.

I keep dreaming WTMA starts offering APs.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

It was my impression that the vast Majority of PAH AP are NOT self study. I've read through so many of the little explanations they offer as well as reviews here and they're mostly asynchronous. Even if you don't. Have a live weekly lecture that doesn't mean it's self study. However, with all that said I would not personally sign up for a class that doesn't have a live weekly component. I believe very strongly that it helps my kid to reconnect with the teacher and reestablish the importance of the subject as well as a the human social component. If I pay 700.00 for an online class I expect at least once live session every week.

 

It's been our experience that in the hands of extraordinary teachers, extensive postings and emails can create not only a sense of unity in the class, but also a sense of personalized attention being given to each student. Sometimes even to a greater degree than in a class with live sessions that must keep moving at a steady pace to stay on track.

 

Some classes my daughter has taken would lose value if they were converted to a live class. 

 

The key being extraordinary teachers.  ;)  It may not be true for every student or every teacher, but it is possible and worth every penny. 

[RootAnn]

I keep dreaming WTMA starts offering APs.

I know they offer at least one - US History (APUSH). I assume there may be select others added as time goes on depending on demand and teacher expertise.

Edited November 22, 2016 by RootAnn

[Chanley]

As far as I know, the WTMA US History class is not a true AP USH class in that the syllabus has not been approved by the college board. The class is geared toward the AP exam but cannot be put on a transcript as an AP class. At least, this was the case last year when my kid took the class. Perhaps it has changed this year. The teacher is excellent. 

[8filltheheart]

It's been our experience that in the hands of extraordinary teachers, extensive postings and emails can create not only a sense of unity in the class, but also a sense of personalized attention being given to each student. Sometimes even to a greater degree than in a class with live sessions that must keep moving at a steady pace to stay on track.

 

Some classes my daughter has taken would lose value if they were converted to a live class. 

 

The key being extraordinary teachers.  ;)  It may not be true for every student or every teacher, but it is possible and worth every penny. 

I think this is how my ds felt about the chem class.  The cal class, otoh, he felt was inundated with unnecessary busy work and just a screen sending assignments.

[Julie of KY]

I agree that a live component is NOT necessary to make you feel connected to the teacher or classmates. In one of my kid's classes (AP macro) there is such great interaction between everyone that you feel like you know most of the students. In the past, AP Statistics, had such great interaction between the teacher and some of the students that it was easy to feel like you knew the teacher and some of the students - others chose not to be so interactive.

In another class that has a weekly live chat, my son does not feel at all connected to the teacher or students. It has minimal interaction outside the one hour chat.

[mirabillis]

Julie & 8Fill - this is so helpful. That's what I'm looking for. I agree a live component is not the end-all, be-all, but like Woodland Mist said, having an extraordinary teacher present the information can be as good as or better than that live lecture. Fantastic reviews, ladies! Thank you. 

 

Woodland - I know we've PMed, but which classes did you love with extraordinary teachers? 

[daijobu]

old post

Edited February 13, 2021 by daijobu
very old

[8filltheheart]

Hi, 8:  I'm shopping for a calc class next year.  Are you referring AP calculus BC at PAH?  

 

Yes.  But, to be fair to PAH, my ds had been taking AoPS classes and the switch to a regular textbook plus the enormous number of problems assigned (compared to the small number of really challenging AoPS problems) was really a major shift in approaches.  He really couldn't stand it.  He ran back to AoPS.

 

But it was a lot of busy work.  There were endless videos to watch and a lot of assigned problems.  It was way more than he needed. 

 

For a student wanting a traditional approach and who needs a lot of repetition, it might be a perfect fit.

[snowbeltmom]

My kids use AoPS up until calc and then switch to AP Calc BC with Susan Gilleran at PAHS.  I debated between AoPS and PAHS before making my decision. 

 

For those who are thinking about this course, here is how the course is set up:

1.  Daily Comments are posted to supplement the section reading in the textbook.

 

2. The student is assigned daily homework in WebAssign.  Usually around 10-15 problems are assigned each day.

 

3. A pdf with complete solutions is provided for every problem assigned.

 

4. In addition to the daily web assignments, the kids are given problems from prior AP exams to practice on occasion.

 

5. There is a discussion board, but I don't think my kids have used it.

 

6. The amount of time my kids have had to spend on calc has varied from anywhere from 45 minutes to 90 minutes, depending on the topic and amount of reading they need to do before beginning the WebAssign problems.

 

7. There is no live component

 

My kids have been very prepared for the AP exam, and my oldest used his AP credit to place into higher level math in college with no trouble at all.

 

Fwiw, I decided on PAHS because the AoPS calc class is not aligned with the topics tested on the AP exam.  If you go with AoPS, you may need to hire a tutor to help your child prepare for the AP exam if you are not well-versed enough in the subject yourself to fill in the missing holes.

 

When my oldest had completed the Calc BC, I emailed the folks at AoPS to see if there would be any benefit to my son by taking their calc class.  I was told that if my son scored a 5 on the calc exam, that there would be no benefit to him taking their course.

[mirabillis]

Are you looking for AP Calc AB or BC, daijobu? We're planning to take AP Calc AB with Wilson Hill. We've been very pleased with their level of instruction thus far and their texts are all the Dolciani ones.

[anne1456]

I agree with everything snowbeltmom said about Calc BC at PAHS, except it takes my son much longer per day. He rarely finishes in less than 2 hours, and it is frequently about 3 hours per day.

[Julie of KY]

Agreeing with the comments about PA Homeschooling Calc BC.

 

Felt that there was a LOT of busiwork (thought we did come from AoPS).

 

Felt the class was inflexible. We'd ask if he could access the Monday homework on Friday so that he'd have the opportunity to do it over the weekend - NO. It must be done on Monday was the answer.

 

The class did prepare well for the AP exam and prepared well for a teacher that had different expectations than my student.

 

If students had questions they were expected to post them to a class email loop and another student or TA would answer them. When my son would have a question, it would be a very theoretical question, but he wanted to understand all the theory before moving on. He'd post it to the email loop and NOONE would touch it. He'd email the teacher directly (even though she'd often answer the email loop questions) and he'd get an answer that she would get back to him in about a week since she's so busy writing recommendations,etc. This happened multiple times that he'd wait about 10 days to get an answer from the teacher - very aggravating. I will say that all the other student's questions were answered quickly as they were basic calculus questions that other student could answer or the teacher could quickly answer.

 

The teacher would "complain" in her daily messages about students cheating on FRQs, but would also say that she was not going to tell the parents. As a parent, reading this it was aggravating as I'd want to be told if my son was not doing his own work.
 

[daijobu]

 

old post

Edited February 13, 2021 by daijobu
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[8filltheheart]

Agreeing with the comments about PA Homeschooling Calc BC.

 

Felt that there was a LOT of busiwork (thought we did come from AoPS).

 

Felt the class was inflexible. We'd ask if he could access the Monday homework on Friday so that he'd have the opportunity to do it over the weekend - NO. It must be done on Monday was the answer.

 

The class did prepare well for the AP exam and prepared well for a teacher that had different expectations than my student.

 

If students had questions they were expected to post them to a class email loop and another student or TA would answer them. When my son would have a question, it would be a very theoretical question, but he wanted to understand all the theory before moving on. He'd post it to the email loop and NOONE would touch it. He'd email the teacher directly (even though she'd often answer the email loop questions) and he'd get an answer that she would get back to him in about a week since she's so busy writing recommendations,etc. This happened multiple times that he'd wait about 10 days to get an answer from the teacher - very aggravating. I will say that all the other student's questions were answered quickly as they were basic calculus questions that other student could answer or the teacher could quickly answer.

 

The teacher would "complain" in her daily messages about students cheating on FRQs, but would also say that she was not going to tell the parents. As a parent, reading this it was aggravating as I'd want to be told if my son was not doing his own work.

 

 

Your description sounds very much like I remember the class.  I wonder if our kids took it the same yr.  When AoPS had a cal class starting in late Oct, he more than happily jumped at the opportunity to go back. He did not like the atmosphere of the PAH class at all.  AoPS was a much better fit.

[daijobu]

old post

Edited February 13, 2021 by daijobu
old

[8filltheheart]

This would really bug my dd.  Now I'm leaning toward AoPS.  On the one hand, I'd like her to have AP specific preparation, like sample FRQs and sample MCs, this will be on the exam, this won't, etc.  But she is also used to doing things the AoPS way, after all these years.  I'm wondering if she could audit the class, just do as many homework problems as she felt she needed without worrying about what her grade would be.  

 

 

Kathy spent a few weeks working with ds on what to expect on the BC exam.  I have no idea what all they covered, but I do remember that the calculator section was the one he needed the post practice on b/c he wasn't used to those types of problems.  You might try asking her for a book recommendation for the test format and what to practice.  

 

Ds has never regretted taking the AoPS cal class. 

[daijobu]

old post

Edited February 13, 2021 by daijobu
old

[8filltheheart]

You mean Kathy in Richmond?  Is this something she does, because this is something we could really use.  I suppose I should just PM her and ask?  

 

We used to live near Kathy and her daughter was my ds's Math Counts coach.  When she graduated, Kathy took over.  So it wasn't just something she just "did." She had a relationship with ds. (He thinks the world of Kathy.)  I'm not sure if this is something she does online or does in general. It can't hurt to ask.  BUt either way, I am sure she can offer some suggestions for great resources. 

[snowbeltmom]

I am wondering if the class has changed a little since 8 and Julie's kids took it?  (I know that my oldest took the class a year after 8's son did, but I am not sure about Julie's children)

 

There is some flexibility with due dates now, so maybe other facets of the class has changed as well?

 

For those debating between the AoPS and PAH, you may want to pose the question on the hs2coll yahoo group.  There are other students over there who used AoPS for calc, but the ones I am aware of either had a tutor to help prepare for AP exam or had a parent that was well-versed in calc.  Maybe you will find other kids who didn't need a tutor or parental help and scored a 5 on the AP exam without any additional help.

[Roadrunner]

Does anybody know of a reputable site or a tutor for AP Calc BC? I wonder if it's possible to do aops class and then spend 2months prepping for exam with a tutor.

[8filltheheart]

Ds just got home for his Thanksgiving break, so I asked him what he and Kathy did to prep.  He said the main thing Kathy did was show him how to format the free response questions and work through some calculator problems.  It was not as if he was not 100% prepared for the content in general. The real difference was working on problems dependent on calculators b/c AoPS does not require one.

 

He said that he thinks the Barron book would be a good bridge for prep work b/c it has a good review on how to format answers and covers the test topics. 

[Julie of KY]

I agree that the main things that need to be learned are calculator problems for the AP test and FRQs.

 

I think the free response questions are not too hard in that all the past year's problems and solutions are available.

 

I think a good test prep book will teach MCQ as well as how to use the calculator for certain problems.

 

I can teach it by hand, but haven't ever bothered to learn to use a graphing calculator.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Woodland - I know we've PMed, but which classes did you love with extraordinary teachers? 

 

The cream rises to the top. If you look through old posts there are some classes that show up frequently as being highly recommended, even though they are asynchronous.

 

PA Homeschoolers classes with no live component that have been good experiences for us or for people we know (either on the board or locally):

 

AP Chemistry with Peter Moskaluk

APUSH with Susan Richman

AP English Language/ AP English Literature with Maya Inspektor

AP Environmental Science with Molly Olsson (has less student-to-student interaction, but is still recommended)

 

There may be other wonderful asynchronous classes, but those are the ones on our radar. I've not included any classes that have some sort of live component.

 

One asynchronous class to be cautious of is AP Human Geography with Carol Ann Gillespie. This is more of a list of assignments with lots of self-grading and computer grading. Yes, the teacher does some grading herself, but her involvement is minimal when compared to the above mentioned classes.  

 

Another class to be cautious of is AP Biology with Terri Kanner. 

 

Disclaimer: Others may have had very different experiences with the above classes. No class is the ever the same for two different students. Sometimes the particular mix of students makes a class wonderful. Sometimes a teacher just has a bad year. Over the years, sometimes classes change -- for better or for worse. 

 

So much of what makes a class good is subjective. One student's tropical paradise is another student's toxic wasteland. 

 

As always, keep tabs on drop dates and refund policies.   ;)

[mirabillis]

Always so refreshingly honest, WoodlandMist. Sooooo appreciate your honesty. I always think good reviews mixed with honest not-so-good reviews are even more telling *eta - meaning, that good review means even more to me. :-) Again, appreciate the insight! I agree wholeheartedly with all you said...

Edited November 23, 2016 by mirabillis

[learners4life]

 

PA Homeschoolers classes with no live component that have been good experiences for us or for people we know (either on the board or locally):

 

AP Chemistry with Peter Moskaluk

APUSH with Susan Richman

AP English Language/ AP English Literature with Maya Inspektor

AP Environmental Science with Molly Olsson (has less student-to-student interaction, but is still recommended)

 

 

Another class to be cautious of is AP Biology with Terri Kanner. 

 

 

 

Agree with all of your likes!  DD has had, or currently has, all of these classes with these instructors.  They have all been very good and she has gotten nothing but 5's.

 

On the other hand, we have a different opinion of AP Biology with Terri Kanner.  We thought the class was very good and very interesting.  My dd made friends in the class (10th grade) that she still snapchats, skypes, etc with on a weekly, if not daily, basis.  The teacher encouraged the use of the discussion board, and the students DID use it.  She had some exercises that might seem tedious on the surface, but, in fact, were quite fruitful for close examination of a topic.  For example, each student would be assigned a multiple choice question from the quiz and would have to write a lengthy response on why each of the wrong answers were wrong, and why the correct answer was correct.  Then they were required to leave thoughtful comments on this same work that was done by other students.  Actually quite helpful for thoroughly/deeply understanding several topics of the quiz. This is just one example.  The teacher covered the experiments from the AP Biology Lab Manual well.  DD got a 5, answering every question with time to spare - very well prepared (although I will say that she did also review with the Barron's AP Bio prep book).

 

We did have one bad experience with PAH, and that was last year with AP Euro.  That teacher is no longer teaching the course!

Edited November 24, 2016 by learners4life

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I'm so glad you posted your experience. So much depends on the student and the mix of students in the class. Thanks for giving a different perspective!

[learners4life]

I'm so glad you posted your experience. So much depends on the student and the mix of students in the class. Thanks for giving a different perspective!

 

Yes, the mix of students can make a big difference!

 

ETA - And, yes, depends on the student too - not every student and teacher are going to be a good match!

Edited November 24, 2016 by learners4life

[cuckoomamma]

Just wanted to add that we've also had a great experience with APUSH with Mrs. Richman, AP Lang with Maya Inspektor and APES with Molly Olson.  Although it isn't asynchronous, dd loved AP Psych with Mrs. G and was very well prepared for the exam.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 Although it isn't asynchronous, dd loved AP Psych with Mrs. G and was very well prepared for the exam.

 

Ditto. My daughter loved AP Psych with Mrs. G. A great class!

[cuckoomamma]

Bumping this thread up to see if anyone has more feedback that they'd like to share.  We're in the process of choosing classes for next year with PAH and would love to hear more about people's experiences.  

 

If you aren't comfortable posting publicly, please pm.

 

Thanks!

[Gratia271]

My kids use AoPS up until calc and then switch to AP Calc BC with Susan Gilleran at PAHS.  I debated between AoPS and PAHS before making my decision. 

 

For those who are thinking about this course, here is how the course is set up:

1.  Daily Comments are posted to supplement the section reading in the textbook.

 

2. The student is assigned daily homework in WebAssign.  Usually around 10-15 problems are assigned each day.

 

3. A pdf with complete solutions is provided for every problem assigned.

 

4. In addition to the daily web assignments, the kids are given problems from prior AP exams to practice on occasion.

 

5. There is a discussion board, but I don't think my kids have used it.

 

6. The amount of time my kids have had to spend on calc has varied from anywhere from 45 minutes to 90 minutes, depending on the topic and amount of reading they need to do before beginning the WebAssign problems.

 

7. There is no live component

 

My kids have been very prepared for the AP exam, and my oldest used his AP credit to place into higher level math in college with no trouble at all.

 

Fwiw, I decided on PAHS because the AoPS calc class is not aligned with the topics tested on the AP exam.  If you go with AoPS, you may need to hire a tutor to help your child prepare for the AP exam if you are not well-versed enough in the subject yourself to fill in the missing holes.

 

When my oldest had completed the Calc BC, I emailed the folks at AoPS to see if there would be any benefit to my son by taking their calc class.  I was told that if my son scored a 5 on the calc exam, that there would be no benefit to him taking their course.

This was our experience too.  DD liked the class and the teacher, and it didn't require too much time.  I think a lot depends on the student. It met her requirements, and there was no requirement of posting on boards etc.  It was excellent prep for AP exam as well.

[Job121]

This would really bug my dd.  Now I'm leaning toward AoPS.  On the one hand, I'd like her to have AP specific preparation, like sample FRQs and sample MCs, this will be on the exam, this won't, etc.  But she is also used to doing things the AoPS way, after all these years.  I'm wondering if she could audit the class, just do as many homework problems as she felt she needed without worrying about what her grade would be.  

 

 

My DS studied AP Calculus BC with the book "University Calculus: by Hass and got 5.

here

 

DS took many AP tests but because we couldn't afford all those expensive online AP classes, most often time he would pick up the book that is available and study by himself. 

 

If you want your student to have AP class experience, that is one thing. But if you are aiming for AP test itself, self study is quite doable. He self-studied both AP Microeconomics and AP Macroeconomics as well and working on Psychology and Statistics now. 

[mirabillis]

Bumping this thread up to see if anyone has more feedback that they'd like to share.  We're in the process of choosing classes for next year with PAH and would love to hear more about people's experiences.  

 

If you aren't comfortable posting publicly, please pm.

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks for bumping, Cuckoomama. That's why I started the thread... we are sticking our toe in for both AP Chem & AP Macro next year. And love WMA's recommendation for AP Psych - I think that is a good one for my upcoming 9th grader in 2 years' time... 

 

Love to hear more experiences too!

 

Our plan right now with PAH is AP Chem, AP Macro (10th), AP Eng Lang, maybe AP Physics 1 (11th), then maybe AP Stats (12th)

[Julie of KY]

And love WMA's recommendation for AP Psych - I think that is a good one for my upcoming 9th grader in 2 years' time... 

 

What AP Psych are you referring to?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

AP Psych with Bonnie Gonzalez (aka Mrs. G) through PA Homeschoolers

 

The class has live meetings (a few time slots are offered after the students give feedback on what times would work best for them). The year my daughter took the class there were 2 or 3 times offered for the live lecture and 2 or 3 offered for the live chat. That may have changed, so maybe someone could offer more current info. 

 

I think the class lends itself to being a good first AP because of the live component and because Mrs. G is so thorough in her explanations of what is expected on the AP exams. 

 

My daughter finds psychology interesting, so I'm sure that played a part in her love of the class. She also had a great group of classmates. 

[mirabillis]

Thanks WMA. I think it sounds perfect for my 9th grader (rising 8th at this point)! How did your dd do on the AP Psych exam, if I may ask?

[Julie of KY]

:huh: Oops. I thought WMA was the provider when I asked the question and I couldn't find it when I scrolled up through the messages. I wasn't thinking straight the other day.

It's obvious WHO it is.

[mirabillis]

WMA = WoodlistMist Academy - I was being lazy typing. Sorry! ;)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks WMA. I think it sounds perfect for my 9th grader (rising 8th at this point)! How did your dd do on the AP Psych exam, if I may ask?

 

She did well on the exam. The class had been excellent preparation. 

 

In addition to the class, she also did some test prep with the Barron's book. If I remember correctly it was during the last two weeks or so before the exam that she worked through some of the Barron's book. I'm not sure how much that helped, but it certainly didn't hurt. She always does a bit of test prep right before an exam to remind herself about timing etc. 

[MAhomeschool]

Going back to the original post ...

I have waited patiently until I felt I could safely publish feedback on Julia Reed's PAH Comparative Government class.  Others have mentioned not seeing many negative reviews for classes on the PAH website, but I know I am very hesitant to leave negative feedback there just because I don't know how it might come back to bite us. Heck, it's making me a little nervous even to leave feedback here, even though now college apps are all done and we'll never have a reason to use a PAH class again.  Also of note - one of the last class assignments for points (*NOT* extra credit) was to fill out a feedback form for her class, and, as far as I could tell, it was not the least bit anonymous. So when Ms. Reed says she has very positive feedback from students, keep that in mind. 

For starters - DS had a great experience with Jack Kernion PAH Physics C (Mech and E/M) and with Mr. Moskaluk PAH Chemistry (BTW, he no longer uses the very expensive lab kit). Also an okay experience with Susan Gilleran PAH BC Calc (although the 20+ pages of daily notes were a bit much for my numbers-oriented guy who reads slowly, so he often didn't bother reading them and just used the textbook for instruction).  For context, DS's best mode of instruction is textbook reading and pre-recorded videos where he can pause them and think about the content and try working out the problems himself before proceeding.

So about Comp Gov. To be fair, Comp Gov is probably the single hardest AP to teach because the content is constantly changing.  Ms. Reed seems to be very well-connected in Washington and seems to really know her stuff.  That said, with a few exceptions, the class seems like it got frozen in time in 2014 or 2015; DS took it 2019-2020.  Sadly, there were SO many times the kids were reading articles or watching videos that were 5 years old when she could have been using articles or videos on the same people or same issues that were only months old.  Also, sometimes her written introduction for an article or an assignment was so outdated (never having been modified from the initial creation of the assignment) that it was wrong (like the status of a Russian assassination investigation).   I'm sure in 2015 this class was state of the art, but four years later, the world had moved on.  We were probably more aware of this than most because both DS and I read The Economist; I don't know if people who didn't follow world news would realize the major disconnect between the class content and current reality. It is possible that this year (2020-2021) she updated more of the content; I'm just telling you what it was like in 2019-2020.

Also, on a completely different front, she seemed completely surprised to find out, a week *after* the class started, that the College Board had completely redone the course and the test for the 2019-2020 school year, including a total change top-to-bottom in the FRQs; it is hard to understand how she could have missed the memo on that, especially considering that US Gov (which she also teaches) had undergone the same rewrite for 2018-2019. Even in April, when she started assigning test prep, *all* of the FRQ resources she assigned the students to read were for the old format of the test, even though, buried on the College Board website, there were links to sample questions and answers for the new question format. (Note that none of what I have just mentioned relates to COVID-related changes to the test.)

Finally, and perhaps most crucially, she never once gave any instructions or specific clear examples on how to get the points on the FRQs.  DS always got perfect scores on the practice FRQs associated with each unit test (and no feedback) and yet when we realized how the FRQs are actually scored, we realized he was completely missing the boat.  Given that they changed the 2020 AP exam to be all FRQs, I am sure DS would have gotten a 1 if he had not found and watched Andrew Conneen's YouTube videos and diligently practiced (in the last two weeks leading up to the test) writing FRQ responses that would get the points. (He ended up with a 5.) I have no explanation as to how she gets such high average scores, except that she is teaching a bunch of high-achieving, self-motivated kids who would do what they needed to do to get 4 and 5s no matter what.

Also, your mileage may vary, but DS (and I) though the group embassy assignments were a huge waste of time.

There.  I've done it.  Hopefully this feedback will help others be more aware of what they are signing up for. 

[Alice]

On 11/19/2016 at 5:42 PM, Julie of KY said:

My son is currently taking AP Macroeconomics. In general, I feel like it's an awesome course. However, it is that way because the instructor has gone to great efforts to make it interactive for the students (with each other) as well as laid it out great for self-study. I do not feel like the teacher "teaches" much. He's provided a fabulous framework for self-study, self-grading and learning from simulation computer games. He gives grades and feedback on the essays, but when my son specifically asked what the points where taken off for, or how to make it better, there is not an answer. Some of the teaching points that the teacher has made have been after the students all miss the same thing - he then says you need to do it this way for the AP exam. Well, I feel that he's been teaching the class long enough that you should tell the students this first (before they make the mistakes) rather than after.

This class is a lot of work and probably my son's favorite due to the interaction with the classmates. He's learning tons and it's well worth putting him in the class. My oldest would have never been able to handle the workload of the essays.

 

AP Physics (with Lanctot) feels like guided self-study. He assigns homework and grades, but there is very minimal teaching. He is available to answer questions, but doesn't get asked too many. My son is learning a lot, but he would do better to interact with classmates and a teacher.

 

On 11/19/2016 at 5:46 PM, mirabillis said:

How time-consuming is it? I understand the simulation games are time-intensive. We were thinking to combine it with AP Chem next year. All this depends on more research to make sure we're not stepping into potholes of PAH classes.  

Ds did AP Macro and AP Micro this year, both the one semester options. He is also doing AP Physics Mech and E&M this year. He has Burns for Econ and Kernion for Physics. Both have been fabulous and I've been very happy with them, which I guess isn't the original poster's question...but I figured it might help someone anyway. 

I would say neither is truly self-study. Slightly more Econ which has no live component. It does have a very detailed syllabus with specifically laid out assignments.  Ds has LOVED the games and spends a lot of time on them and I think has learned a lot. He was in group that had conference calls about the games and got really into them so it also became a fun social thing. He hates to write so having to write papers quite often has been really good for him. 

As far as time, I'd guess he spends about an hour a day on average on Econ. He easily spends several hours a day on Physics on average. 

Physics has a live class every other week. The professor (Kernion) has also been very responsive. I've seen lots of emails in Ds's inbox discussing physics with various class members and the professor (someone asking questions). The lab kit was optional and inexpensive and I've been impressed by the labs he's done. 

I feel like both classes are somewhat interactive, but that might depend on the students. HIs Physics class also has some kind of chat going and they talk physics, I think. 

I feel like they have been well worth the money. If nothing else, ds has really loved both classes. He is now talking about possibly majoring in Physics (before it was just Math). I think he has gotten much more out of them than something that I put together or that he self-studied. The flexibility of the schedule has also been good as it gives him the ability to manage his work around other things going on . 

[Farrar]

Thank you for posting that, @MAhomeschool. I really think there needs to be clear reviews for teachers and courses and that no provider should scare the community into not doing that. Not every teacher will be right for every student and sometimes there are misunderstandings, we should all take reviews with a grain of salt, etc.... but we should also all be able to review and discuss what's good and what isn't out there.

[easypeasy]

PAH Chem was SO WELL organized, but it kicked my kids' backsides. We dropped the class when we realized that all they would have done for that entire year was Chemistry, and they were too busy otherwise for that. PAH Chem isn't something I would call "self study" at all.

PAH Computer Science, on the other hand, was definitely self study. Felt like a waste of $$ and I think my kid could have formed his own curriculum and enjoyed it more. He did score well on the test, but... there was zero input from the teacher.

My kids used Blue Tent for AP English (LOVED those classes - to this day, the kids still talk about how much they learned in those classes), so I can't help there.)

We also used PAH for AP Calculus, Physics, History.... gah... other things? It's only been a couple of years and I am already forgetting all the details! 🥴

 

[UmmIbrahim]

9 hours ago, easypeasy said:

PAH Chem was SO WELL organized, but it kicked my kids' backsides. We dropped the class when we realized that all they would have done for that entire year was Chemistry, and they were too busy otherwise for that. PAH Chem isn't something I would call "self study" at all.

PAH Computer Science, on the other hand, was definitely self study. Felt like a waste of $$ and I think my kid could have formed his own curriculum and enjoyed it more. He did score well on the test, but... there was zero input from the teacher.

My kids used Blue Tent for AP English (LOVED those classes - to this day, the kids still talk about how much they learned in those classes), so I can't help there.)

We also used PAH for AP Calculus, Physics, History.... gah... other things? It's only been a couple of years and I am already forgetting all the details! 🥴

 

Question about the PAH Chem class for you. What aspect of it in particular made it untenable for your kids? I'm eyeing that class for the year after next (we are doing Clover Valley Chem this year, then Clover Creek Physics next year, then hoping to do PAH AP Chem the following year). Was there a lot of output? Conceptual hurdles? Labwork? Too much note taking? Every kid is so different (and my middle son has quirky handwriting issues), and I'd love to hear what made it not work out for you guys. 

Interesting about the PAH Computer Science class being a dud for you guys. We took AP Computer Science A last year with Cynthia Lang, and my son really enjoyed that. The weekly live classes were a lot of fun and he enjoyed the coding projects. He also liked having a TA that he could contact with any questions on the coding homework. He thought in between the Practice It, coding bat, book assignments, and homework projects that he got really good practice. Guess it just goes to show that so much is about the right fit! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[daijobu]

21 minutes ago, UmmIbrahim said:

 Guess it just goes to show that so much is about the right fit! 

This is so true.  My dd also loved Mr. Moskaluk's AP chem class, and I truly believed it restored her faith in homeschooling, during a stressful difficult time her freshman year of high school.  OTOH, I read a lot of praise for the calculus class, which was kind of a dud for my AoPS student.  OTOH, it got the job done (meaning a 5) with minimal work, which is what we wanted ultimately.    

[daijobu]

19 hours ago, Farrar said:

Thank you for posting that, @MAhomeschool. I really think there needs to be clear reviews for teachers and courses and that no provider should scare the community into not doing that. 

Were there actual threats?