Need recommendations...

[mommy25]

I need help figuring out what materials to use for my daughter. I homeschooled her through the 5th grade. She has been in a small Christian school for the last 2 1/2 years. So she is now 14 (8th grade). I have removed her from school yesterday due to there not being any support or help for her and she was constantly getting into trouble. I cannot watch her struggle any more.

 

She has been diagnosed with ADD, dyslexia and binocular dysfunction. We are currently working on her diet (removed artificial stuff along with sugar and gluten) before trying medication.

 

I need suggestions for spelling, reading and math. She doesn't spell very well at all and is really struggling in math. They kept her back in math this year but the program is atrocious for her and she is not learning.

 

My goal is to take a little time really focusing in on basic concepts and then start pre-algebra using Tablet Class (we've used before with other children). I thought of using the Key to series for fractions/decimals/percents along with Calculadder for review while beginning Tablet Class and working at a slow pace.

 

Also looking at Sequential Spelling as a possibility.

 

Can anyone make suggestions for spelling, reading and math for children with these issues? I have been out of the homeschool arena for a few years and need help.

 

Thanks

[OneStepAtATime]

Are you planning to homeschool High School or were you seeing this as you stepping in for the remainder of 8th grade then returning her to a school environment for 9th?  My responses below are based on the assumption that you are going to homeschool her for at least the next couple of years.  If that is not true, if you plan to return her to a school setting next fall, then let us know.  You may get very different responses from the LC board if that is the case and I want to make sure you are getting suggestions that will help you with your specific circumstances.

 

In the meantime, honestly, I would take a deep breath, plan for this being a longer road than you might have anticipated, and take some time off from formal academics for at least a couple of weeks or even longer.  Maybe plan on starting formal academics in January and plan to continue with a lighter schedule during the summer (3 or 4 half days a week but take a couple of weeks off at the beginning and end of the summer for a break).  Give her a chance to detox right now while you work out how to help her.  In all likelihood there is going to be a lot of trial and error as you find what will work for her.  Do some interest led, fun exploration of something she likes right now.  Go on some fun outings.  Help her find some joy while you delve into the situation.

 

As for academics specifically, first, you have to find out where she is at in her base knowledge.  I would not be planning on when to start Pre-Algebra, for instance, until you know where she is at in math.  She may need to go way, way, way back to fill in critical gaps before she can make successful progress forward.  I suggest that this may be true in all of her skill subjects.  For content subjects, you can do read alouds, audio books, and documentaries for now while you figure out the skills stuff.  Don't set up a time table for expectations that may be unreachable.  It will only cause you both stress and unhappiness.  Commit to taking some time to find out where she really is at before making solid plans for a time table.  I realize with her being 8th grade you may be feeling a serious time crunch to get her ready for High School.  I understand.  Realistically, though, what matters right now is where she is at at this moment.  

 

MATH:  For math materials, you might run her through the Ronit Bird e-books first to see how solid her subitization skills are.  (see link: http://www.ronitbird.com/ebooks/ ).  You might also give her the CLE placement test (link: https://www.clp.org/store/by_grade/21 ), not to necessarily start using CLE but to give yourself a ballpark idea of where she has gaps.  CLE tends to run ahead of a lot of standard math programs so don't be alarmed if she tests into a much lower grade level.  Given her circumstances I would be surprised if she didn't.  Start her where she has some strengths, fill in whatever gaps exist, and keep moving forward at whatever pace she can maintain successfully.  

 

Mainly, don't rush.  Be patient.  It may take time to get her to higher level math but math needs to be built on a solid foundation.  With too many gaps in basic math knowledge you will be building her understanding on a house of sand.  I, and many others here, have found that going back and filling in those gaps before moving forward again netted a much greater return than just trying to plow ahead.

 

Oh, if you end up choosing a math program that has grade levels and you fear a lower grade level designation on the cover will upset her, perhaps don't call them grade levels, call them levels and explain that she has tested into ____ level, meaning she is already way past ______ levels and can move into the level she tested into.  It worked here, anyway.   :)

 

READING/SPELLING/WRITING: Since she is dyslexic, I would consider a reading/spelling program that is VERY dyslexia friendly.  Standard reading/spelling programs may not work at all.  Barton is the gold standard (pricey but WAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than hiring a dyslexia tutor) and is actually designed for a layman with no dyslexia training to be able to use.  There are other systems that are good.  Barton just happens to be better at helping someone without dyslexia training to actually tutor their child.  

 

By the way, Barton would replace all other language arts until Level 4 so you wouldn't have to buy anything else for those subjects until later.  It is designed to undo any issues that may have arisen from years of instruction that did NOT help a dyslexic student while helping the student learn more efficient ways of reading/spelling/writing for how their brain works.  

 

The program pacing for Barton will be different for each student but all of Level 1-3 can usually be done in a few months.  Each level through Level 4 increases significantly in what it covers and the time it will take to complete.  Level 1 is the shortest and fastest but is frequently the level that a lot of dyslexics students missed when they were first learning to read.  It goes back and puts in the missing foundational blocks needed.  FTR, levels are NOT grade levels but true building blocks.  Most students start at Level 1 regardless of age.  Level 4 is usually the longest and most intense level.  It can sometimes take several months just by itself.  The others tend to go faster after Level 4.  (Barton recommends starting a formal writing program beyond what Barton offers once the student is mostly through Level 4; Fix-It Grammar new version plus IEW Student Writing Intensive/Teaching Writing Structure and Style have paired well with Barton here).  Level 9 and 10 are more High School prep so the program is not just for basic reading remediation but covers quite a bit of material.

 

I started using Barton with my 6th grader and while it took me a bit to get comfortable with the program (I thought it went back too far) it actually was EXACTLY what my kiddos needed and turned our situation around completely.  

 

Even if you decide not to use Barton I would encourage you to give her the student screening to make certain she has no undiagnosed glitches in sound that might be tripping her up.  (link: https://bartonreading.com/  Click on the tutor and student screening selections at the bottom). If your child can pass the student screening then she should be o.k. to go through any Orton-Gillingham based reading/spelling/writing program (OG is the way to go with most dyslexics.  There are many OG based programs out there.)

 

You might, if you can afford it and are not comfortable doing targeted dyslexia based tutoring, hire a professional tutor but I would do research first.  Not all tutors, no matter what their background, are created equal, and a student with multiple challenges may not do well with someone that has no experience dealing with their particular challenges.

 

Again, right now I would try and help your daughter build up some confidence, find some joy, maybe work hard at pursuing specific skill sets outside of academics that interest her, and generally take some time to detox from the stress of her prior academic experience.  There are MANY ways to learn without formal academics.  In the meantime you can do research and find a better path for your child.

 

Oh, because of the ADD issue I would try really hard to keep all lessons short once you start academics again.  Also, make sure she is getting plenty of physical activity.  

 

Have you read books on ADD and Dyslexia?  There are quite a few out there.  Some of the ones usually recommended on this board:  The Dyslexic Advantage and The Mislabeled Child both by Brock and Fernette Eide;  Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz; ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life; The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss.  I'm sure others can recommend more but I need to go.  

 

Best wishes.

Edited November 16, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[PeterPan]

It's clearly not what you want to hear, but now would be the time to get the meds.  You can improve ADHD *some* with diet, but the things you'd need to do aren't things you're likely to do long enough or as a long-term thing.  If she's not reacting to gluten, removing it doesn't improve anything.  You'd have to increase her vegetables to 6-8 cups a day, fruit to 2-4 cups a day, drop all the gluten free junk (which is still flour, clogging the gut), add omega-3, etc.  I've done it for myself for 15 years, and sure you can do it.  But it's not going to be complete.  I would encourage you to get the meds and be done with it.  Many kids see a profound difference THE SAME DAY.  And then, if you still want to change your diet, more power to you.  But now would be the time to make that change. This is a really good age, because you're looking at high school and have maxed out whatever she can do for herself behaviorally.

 

Has she had OG for the spelling and reading?  You have recent testing to know where she's at?  What program were they using for math?  Have you done any placement tests to know where she's at with the math?  

[mommy25]

Thank you both for your responses. I must admit that I am overwhelmed. :/

 

I will go to the websites that you listed and check it out. Unfortunately, finances are a HUGE issue for us. They were at the school on vouchers and financial assistance. I also brought 2 other children home as well because it was 2 hours of driving each day.  I was hoping to be able to help her affordably. 

 

She will be starting on a basketball team so that will help with the physical activity. 

 

My plan was to prepare her to enter 9th grade in school just in case.  We don't know if we will continue to homeschool after this year. We just know its what needs to happen right now. 

 

All of us have food sensitivities (7 of us ) and 3 of us have Lyme Disease. We all have gluten issues. Since removing the gluten she is less bloated which is good. Sugar is BIG thing for her too, so removing it has helped. Our naturopath has a son with the same issue who recovered by changing his diet. I don't think we have given it a fair shot before jumping into medication. 

 

How do you all homeschool a child with LD/ADD and take care of grades and credits? I've always been a relaxed homeschooler but sometimes reading on these forums can be a little intimidating. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by mommy25

[Code Lyoko]

Thank you both for your responses. I must admit that I am overwhelmed. :/

 

I will go to the websites that you listed and check it out. Unfortunately, finances are a HUGE issue for us. They were at the school on vouchers and financial assistance. I also brought 2 other children home as well because it was 2 hours of driving each day.  I was hoping to be able to help her affordably. 

 

She will be starting on a basketball team so that will help with the physical activity. 

 

My plan was to prepare her to enter 9th grade in school just in case.  We don't know if we will continue to homeschool after this year. We just know its what needs to happen right now. 

 

All of us have food sensitivities (7 of us ) and 3 of us have Lyme Disease. We all have gluten issues. Since removing the gluten she is less bloated which is good. Sugar is BIG thing for her too, so removing it has helped. Our naturopath has a son with the same issue who recovered by changing his diet. I don't think we have given it a fair shot before jumping into medication. 

 

How do you all homeschool a child with LD/ADD and take care of grades and credits? I've always been a relaxed homeschooler but something reading on these forums can be a little intimidating. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

I will address the bolded first.  What are the laws where you live?  Do you know?  Are you living in the States?  That will definitely affect my answer.  There are many ways to track grades and credits.  It really isn't that hard and many here can definitely help.  Knowing the laws in your area for homeschooling will be critical, though.

 

Where I live there are requirements but they are very general and there is no one to report to and no one checking up.   Meeting requirements is not hard.  Anything prior to High School just has to be "bonafied" material, not a sham.  Meaning if someone investigated you could prove that your children met the state requirements by showing them real material was used, whether paper, or on-line or whatever.  No requirements for standardized testing or portfolios exist for anything before High School.  Only the SAT/ACT are required for High School and only if the student plans/needs to go on to higher education of some kind (but having those outside scores can help with justifying a homeschool High School diploma even if they don't go on to college).

 

High School is trickier since it isn't just what they need to do to earn a High School diploma (which I am allowed to issue myself), it is meeting the requirements to get the child into a career.  Many careers require a college degree.  College requirements for acceptance are a bigger concern than general High School graduation requirements if a student wants/needs a college degree.

 

Your biggest issue, IMHO, is that you are pulling your child out nearly half way through the school year when she is exhibiting deficits in many academic areas.  You only have months to try and correct what amounts to probably years of struggle, gaps, falling behind, before putting her back in school at grade level this coming fall.  Tracking her grades and credits can still be done and there are many here who can help you with that (depending on the legal requirements of your location) but if you are planning to put her back in school next fall I would seriously consider actually having her stretch out 8th grade over the remainder of this year and next year to give her a fighting chance to succeed.  Otherwise you may find yourself having to pull her out again when she has already started High School.  

 

I know this can be overwhelming.  You say you pulled out other children as well.  Do they have any learning challenges?   

[mommy25]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I will address the bolded first.  What are the laws where you live?  Do you know?  Are you living in the States?  That will definitely affect my answer.  There are many ways to track grades and credits.  It really isn't that hard and many here can definitely help.  Knowing the laws in your area for homeschooling will be critical, though.

 

Where I live there are requirements but they are very general and there is no one to report to and no one checking up.   Meeting requirements is not hard.  Anything prior to High School just has to be "bonafied" material, not a sham.  Meaning if someone investigated you could prove that your children met the state requirements by showing them real material was used, whether paper, or on-line or whatever.  No requirements for standardized testing or portfolios exist for anything before High School.  Only the SAT/ACT are required for High School and only if the student plans/needs to go on to higher education of some kind (but having those outside scores can help with justifying a homeschool High School diploma even if they don't go on to college).

 

High School is trickier since it isn't just what they need to do to earn a High School diploma (which I am allowed to issue myself), it is meeting the requirements to get the child into a career.  Many careers require a college degree.  College requirements for acceptance are a bigger concern than general High School graduation requirements if a student wants/needs a college degree.

 

Your biggest issue, IMHO, is that you are pulling your child out nearly half way through the school year when she is exhibiting deficits in many academic areas.  You only have months to try and correct what amounts to probably years of struggle, gaps, falling behind, before putting her back in school at grade level this coming fall.  Tracking her grades and credits can still be done and there are many here who can help you with that (depending on the legal requirements of your location) but if you are planning to put her back in school next fall I would seriously consider actually having her stretch out 8th grade over the remainder of this year and next year to give her a fighting chance to succeed.  Otherwise you may find yourself having to pull her out again when she has already started High School.  

 

I know this can be overwhelming.  You say you pulled out other children as well.  Do they have any learning challenges?   

 

We live in Indiana, a very homeschool friendly state. I believe keeping attendance is all that is required. 

 

They have all been in the abeka curriculum. The other 2 do not have learning issues nor do they have ADD. 

 

She is already struggling with feeling "less than" because of all of her struggles. I can't imagine telling her she can't enter 9th grade along side her friends (even if they don't go to the same school) :(

 

[mommy25]

It's clearly not what you want to hear, but now would be the time to get the meds.  You can improve ADHD *some* with diet, but the things you'd need to do aren't things you're likely to do long enough or as a long-term thing.  If she's not reacting to gluten, removing it doesn't improve anything.  You'd have to increase her vegetables to 6-8 cups a day, fruit to 2-4 cups a day, drop all the gluten free junk (which is still flour, clogging the gut), add omega-3, etc.  I've done it for myself for 15 years, and sure you can do it.  But it's not going to be complete.  I would encourage you to get the meds and be done with it.  Many kids see a profound difference THE SAME DAY.  And then, if you still want to change your diet, more power to you.  But now would be the time to make that change. This is a really good age, because you're looking at high school and have maxed out whatever she can do for herself behaviorally.

 

Has she had OG for the spelling and reading?  You have recent testing to know where she's at?  What program were they using for math?  Have you done any placement tests to know where she's at with the math?  

 

I am not sure what 'OG' is for spelling and reading. We have no testing as they were in the school. The school didn't provide it because there wasn't any support for kids like her. They just push them through. Its a very small school. They have all been in the Abeka curriculum. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by mommy25

[prairiewindmomma]

A few thoughts:

 

1. We waited to long to start our kid on ADD medication.  We were surprised how well our prescription insurance covered the medication cost.  Had we not had Rx insurance (we investigated), there were a number of drug company vouchers that still made things affordable. I would seriously do a number of things (including plasma donation) to keep my kid on his ADD med.  It's that big of a difference. Seriously.

 

2. CLE is very affordable as far as math goes. I would do the placement test, and see where she is at. I would use that for my math curricula. I have kids with similar issues (down to the visual stuff), and it's a good math program. Key To is good, but I find the highly sequential, highly spiral nature of CLE to be necessary for my kid who is using CLE. We have found tons of tiny little gaps in skills using CLE that we wouldn't have picked up if we just hit fractions or decimals or whatever in Key To.

 

3. Spelling.....  We have used a variety of programs.  Honestly, I would not use Sequential Spelling (and I say this owning all 7 levels).  The methodology of the program is good (dry erase board, put the root of the word in red ink, the other letters in black so that they see the pattern), but we've had more progress in doing all of the steps of Spelling Power---the visualization, air writing, spelling outloud steps all seem to be necessary for my kid who already has visual issues.  It's a one-time purchase, and it's easy to pick up any old edition used.  You can place her where she's at and move forward.  There are free printables on the net with the steps, and it's easy to use a whiteboard for practice if you don't want to buy the $5-6 accompanying practice book (which is pages with checkboxes for the steps).

 

That said, I think the above advice about trying to save pennies to buy Barton, which has a high resale value, is good advice re: dyslexia.  I haven't had a phonemic dyslexic kid. Mine has had orthographic dyslexia, and visual aspects of dyslexia, and problems distinguishing phonemes and sequencing....but not dyslexia dyslexia, so I can't share personal experience in remediating true dyslexia.

[prairiewindmomma]

OG = Orton-Gillingham.  It's a method of remediating dyslexia.  Most popular remedial phonics programs are based on the OG Method---Barton, Wilson, All About Reading/All About Spelling, ABeCeDarian, Lindamood-Bell, 

 

I'm not sure where Spalding falls in.  The Spalding program is Writing Road to Reading.  Some people (Ellie here on the boards!) LOVE Spalding.  I found it a bit difficult to use straight out of the book. Writing Road to Reading is very inexpensive to pick up used, however, and it's been discussed quite a bit on the boards, so I'd consider looking in to it. It covers handwriting, spelling, phonics, and has been used for dyslexia remediation.

[Code Lyoko]

OG = Orton Gillingham which is the base system that most dyslexics do best with.  There are several programs that are OG based.  Barton is the easiest to implement for a layman and is one I would strongly recommend in your situation because you might be able to get her through all of the first 3 levels and part of Level 4 before fall of next year, which might really help.  However, you say that finances are a huge issue so Barton may not be feasible.  (As an aside, Barton resells for nearly the purchase price so you could buy a level then sell it when you are done and use that money to buy the next level.  Just make sure you buy a second set of tiles with every level after Level 1 since the tiles are used cumulatively.)

 

I am going to be honest, you may need to really commit to homeschooling her through High School, regardless of materials.  There are tons of materials you might be able to implement (and I agree that CLE coupled with Ronit Bird to solidify subitization skills might really work in your situation).  It is the time factor that will be a big problem.  It depends on where she really is (NOT what the school was pushing her through, but where the gaps are and how big).  She may not be able to get to a level where she can function as a 9th grader in a brick and mortar school if you only have months to remediate issues.  

 

Do you know which school you might consider placing her in?  I absolutely would NOT consider putting her in a private school for 9th grade that offers no supports whatsoever for a child that has learning challenges.  Have you looked to see if there is any other school, maybe a private or public school, that could genuinely offer help?  If so, she might be able to get a IEP/504.  It could help, depending on how supportive the school actually is.  You might need to start the paperwork for getting an IEP/504 in place sooner rather than later, though.  Sometimes the process can take months.

 

The main thing right now is not to let all of this overwhelm you (easier said than done, I know).  Take a deep breath.  Focus on hanging out with your kids and making it through each day while you process through and figure out what to do.  There are answers out there.  It may take some time to find them but there are answers.  Hang in there.

[Code Lyoko]

By the way, in one of your follow up posts, when you say you have had no testing, does that mean your diagnosis of ADD/dyslexia/binocular dysfunction was done privately and there was no testing through the school?  Or you had no testing and the diagnosis is based on observation?  Or...?  Just trying to clarify.  :)

[mommy25]

By the way, in one of your follow up posts, when you say you have had no testing, does that mean your diagnosis of ADD/dyslexia/binocular dysfunction was done privately and there was no testing through the school?  Or you had no testing and the diagnosis is based on observation?  Or...?  Just trying to clarify.   :)

 

No placement tests to see where she was or at what class or level she should be working in. The school she was in brought in the township and they found her to have ADD tendencies and I was told to see a doctor. I posted the test results on this forum a few months ago. I can't remember what all the results were but she had some low scoring and was bordering on needing outside intervention. Not enough for them to send someone there to help, though. She was diagnosed by an eye doctor with binocular dysfunction. I think there was an assumption vs a specific test for the dyslexia based on the test results and also what the eye doctor was seeing in her. 

[mommy25]

A few thoughts:

 

1. We waited to long to start our kid on ADD medication.  We were surprised how well our prescription insurance covered the medication cost.  Had we not had Rx insurance (we investigated), there were a number of drug company vouchers that still made things affordable. I would seriously do a number of things (including plasma donation) to keep my kid on his ADD med.  It's that big of a difference. Seriously.

 

Can you tell me what kind of medication is working for you?

 

2. CLE is very affordable as far as math goes. I would do the placement test, and see where she is at. I would use that for my math curricula. I have kids with similar issues (down to the visual stuff), and it's a good math program. Key To is good, but I find the highly sequential, highly spiral nature of CLE to be necessary for my kid who is using CLE. We have found tons of tiny little gaps in skills using CLE that we wouldn't have picked up if we just hit fractions or decimals or whatever in Key To.

 

I do have some experience with CLE. I am just surprised that that works well with a kid with learning issues and ADD. It is an intensive program and there is a lot of daily work. 

 

3. Spelling.....  We have used a variety of programs.  Honestly, I would not use Sequential Spelling (and I say this owning all 7 levels).  The methodology of the program is good (dry erase board, put the root of the word in red ink, the other letters in black so that they see the pattern), but we've had more progress in doing all of the steps of Spelling Power---the visualization, air writing, spelling outloud steps all seem to be necessary for my kid who already has visual issues.  It's a one-time purchase, and it's easy to pick up any old edition used.  You can place her where she's at and move forward.  There are free printables on the net with the steps, and it's easy to use a whiteboard for practice if you don't want to buy the $5-6 accompanying practice book (which is pages with checkboxes for the steps).

 

That said, I think the above advice about trying to save pennies to buy Barton, which has a high resale value, is good advice re: dyslexia.  I haven't had a phonemic dyslexic kid. Mine has had orthographic dyslexia, and visual aspects of dyslexia, and problems distinguishing phonemes and sequencing....but not dyslexia dyslexia, so I can't share personal experience in remediating true dyslexia.

 

[mommy25]

OG = Orton Gillingham which is the base system that most dyslexics do best with.  There are several programs that are OG based.  Barton is the easiest to implement for a layman and is one I would strongly recommend in your situation because you might be able to get her through all of the first 3 levels and part of Level 4 before fall of next year, which might really help.  However, you say that finances are a huge issue so Barton may not be feasible.  (As an aside, Barton resells for nearly the purchase price so you could buy a level then sell it when you are done and use that money to buy the next level.  Just make sure you buy a second set of tiles with every level after Level 1 since the tiles are used cumulatively.)

 

I am going to be honest, you may need to really commit to homeschooling her through High School, regardless of materials.  There are tons of materials you might be able to implement (and I agree that CLE coupled with Ronit Bird to solidify subitization skills might really work in your situation).  It is the time factor that will be a big problem.  It depends on where she really is (NOT what the school was pushing her through, but where the gaps are and how big).  She may not be able to get to a level where she can function as a 9th grader in a brick and mortar school if you only have months to remediate issues.  

 

I am surprised at the recommendation for CLE for a kid with learning issues. I have some experience with it and it is a a lot of daily work. So what happens if she places in the 5th or 6th grade level CLE books as an 8th grader? What about the high school courses that are required? How does she "earn" her diploma if she is doing what would not be considered high school work? And if we use CLE, we will be forever doing all of those workbooks.

 

Do you know which school you might consider placing her in?  I absolutely would NOT consider putting her in a private school for 9th grade that offers no supports whatsoever for a child that has learning challenges.  Have you looked to see if there is any other school, maybe a private or public school, that could genuinely offer help?  If so, she might be able to get a IEP/504.  It could help, depending on how supportive the school actually is.  You might need to start the paperwork for getting an IEP/504 in place sooner rather than later, though.  Sometimes the process can take months.

 

For us, and based on where we live, public school is not an option. And the bigger private schools are too expensive even with the financial help. 

 

The main thing right now is not to let all of this overwhelm you (easier said than done, I know).  Take a deep breath.  Focus on hanging out with your kids and making it through each day while you process through and figure out what to do.  There are answers out there.  It may take some time to find them but there are answers.  Hang in there.

[mommy25]

The other thing I was thinking as I was looking at the placement tests for CLE: At this point, should I be worrying about some of these math problems? I mean, multiplying decimals and long division etc...In today's world we use a calculator. I just wonder what good it is to pound this stuff into her at this point. Another example would be the measurements. I know the basics but some of this you just look up when you need to....

 

I understand she needs a foundation but I wonder at this point if its worth the trouble, especially with CLE because they seem to be SO thorough. KWIM?

[mommy25]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I will address the bolded first.  What are the laws where you live?  Do you know?  Are you living in the States?  That will definitely affect my answer.  There are many ways to track grades and credits.  It really isn't that hard and many here can definitely help.  Knowing the laws in your area for homeschooling will be critical, though.

 

Where I live there are requirements but they are very general and there is no one to report to and no one checking up.   Meeting requirements is not hard.  Anything prior to High School just has to be "bonafied" material, not a sham.  Meaning if someone investigated you could prove that your children met the state requirements by showing them real material was used, whether paper, or on-line or whatever.  No requirements for standardized testing or portfolios exist for anything before High School.  Only the SAT/ACT are required for High School and only if the student plans/needs to go on to higher education of some kind (but having those outside scores can help with justifying a homeschool High School diploma even if they don't go on to college).

 

High School is trickier since it isn't just what they need to do to earn a High School diploma (which I am allowed to issue myself), it is meeting the requirements to get the child into a career.  Many careers require a college degree.  College requirements for acceptance are a bigger concern than general High School graduation requirements if a student wants/needs a college degree.

 

So if you have a child that has these issues, and you use materials that you feel are appropriate for them in high school, can they then enter into a community college for the 1st year before transferring to another college if need be? If your child does the specific subject matter that is requried but in a very modified way, you can still give the credit, correct? I guess I am stressing trying to think about all that we would have to go through, especially for math. And she HATES to read. Hates it. It is very laborious for her and she struggles with comprehension. 

 

Your biggest issue, IMHO, is that you are pulling your child out nearly half way through the school year when she is exhibiting deficits in many academic areas.  You only have months to try and correct what amounts to probably years of struggle, gaps, falling behind, before putting her back in school at grade level this coming fall.  Tracking her grades and credits can still be done and there are many here who can help you with that (depending on the legal requirements of your location) but if you are planning to put her back in school next fall I would seriously consider actually having her stretch out 8th grade over the remainder of this year and next year to give her a fighting chance to succeed.  Otherwise you may find yourself having to pull her out again when she has already started High School.  

 

I know this can be overwhelming.  You say you pulled out other children as well.  Do they have any learning challenges?   

 

[PeterPan]

Some of this doesn't make sense to me.  Did the ps run a CTOPP and diagnose SLD Reading or not?  They should have.  They did diagnose ADHD?  

 

It actually really matters whether this is ADHD with spelling problems (what my dd had) or DYSLEXIA (what my ds has).  The vision problems can affect her visual memory, which will glitch her spelling.  Lots of kids with ADHD have spelling problems, and the vision problems can also cause them.  So before you go spending big bucks on Barton (which I really like!), I would figure out if she actually has dyslexia.

 

See if the school ran a CTOPP.  See if the school ran any form of achievement testing.  See if there is low achievement in reading, etc. If they *didn't* run a CTOPP (or something similar), you might be able to find someone to run it affordably.  Around here I can get a reading tutor to do a CTOPP and the DRA (reading achievement test and spelling) for just $75.  That would be really, really valuable to you right now.  You could spend a ton of money on Barton and have it not be what you need.

 

You've asked some really good questions about high school, and I'll try to come back to them tonight, later.  As you say, sometimes what theoretically makes sense (5th year of high school) isn't what happens.  What was the cost of the vision therapy and is that an option?  Often VT will give major improvement in just a few months.  There are ways to get the price down (more homework, different doc, daytime hours, sliding scale, etc.).  IF she has developmental vision problems affecting her visual memory, you're going to want to work on those pronto.  That will give her the foundation for everything else.

 

You don't "recover" from ADHD.  Even people who are labeled ADHD as kids who do not have the label as adults still have ADHD brain scans in MRIs.  It's how their brain is.  Better to read a book like Dyslexic Advantage and get on board with the strengths and how to nurture the strengths.  

 

Is she your oldest?  I can tell you that high school goes very quickly.  They change very rapidly, especially from their freshman to junior years.  Her push to stay with her peers will be real.  She's going to blossom, and she's going to need a positive, strength-driven path forward.  Your window for remediation will close and your "let's find how this looks going forward" is beginning.  You're still going to continue to intervene, but right now I'm not clear what you're intervening on.  You're saying dyslexia, but no diagnosis.  You have test scores?  Lots of kids with ADHD are doing Algebra 1 their freshman and sophomore years and have things come together.  They can have a slower development and need more bake time.  

 

I agree with you about being cautious about CLE.  It's more pleasant than Abeka, but it has torturously long lessons and is incremental.

 

Did the school do any language testing as well?  I'm reading your comment about the comprehension with math.  I've found with my ds that I need curriculum that goes through things carefully, hitting the *language* of math.  When kids aren't reading, their language acquisition slows down.  Is she using audiobooks?  I would up those significantly.  Like just do it.  Get her up to 2 hours a day if you can.  Let her take up knitting or puzzles (good for the vision!!!) or other things and put on audiobooks.  Do those audiobooks and puzzles every single day.  If she shies away from puzzles, you'll have to back up to where they're easy.  I would put the books on a kindle or ipod or whatever and use earbuds.  I would pay her by the hour ($2 an hour, whatever) if she has been reluctant.  I would get a mix of things, like not just books but also Teaching Company Courses.  That will give you some "cover your butt" if that makes sense.  Like maybe you don't "do" US history her freshman year, but she listens to the mighty fine TC course from audible!  Do that, throw in a few audiobooks, watch some movies, call it done, kwim?

 

Your other tip for high school is going to be thinking through things cummulatively.  You don't have to "do" a course.  You can accumulate hours and then call it a course.  Lee Binz has terrific info on this.  Learn about credits vs. units.  Credits are material covered, while units are time spent.  Lee Binz does free workshops, so get on her mailing list.  It's PERFECT for non-traditional students.

[PeterPan]

We've talked about this in the past, but there are materials like the Walch Powerbasics and some others that are traditional high school subjects with a lower reading level.  They can be pretty creative and worth doing.  Someone will slam them, fine.  It's just your tip that there IS this other kind of stuff out there.  If you google search for it, you'll find other publishers.

[PeterPan]

If you have time, can you give her a MUS placement test?

[prairiewindmomma]

I am posting from my phone with kid chatter around me so I hope this is coherent:

 

1. I don't have my child doing every problem in CLE. I would say that he does 1/3-1/2 of a lesson. I mark what he needs to do based on where he needs revision. So, he may do all of one section, 2-3 problems of a different section, half of the next session, etc. I started off having him work diligently for five minutes at a time, and he now works for about 20 min before needing a break. I watch him for when his mind starts to wander.

 

2. I don't think that complete fact memorization is necessary for absolutely all children but I do believe that number sense and procedural understanding must be there. I don't see how you can get through higher math without that. Measurement and time are essential, imo, and my ds just mastered that this year.

 

3. High school math = algebra 1, geometry, and either algebra 2 or a consumer math to get into community college here. IMO, anything less, short a significant intellectual or physical disability is bordering on educational neglect. My kid may very well take 5 years to get through high school but I am building an educational foundation for life for him, not a social circle.

 

4. Vyvanse is the ADD med that works for my ds. He failed adderall. It took 6 months to get the med situation worked out. His writing jumped several grade levels once he could hold a coherent thought in his mind.

[mommy25]

Some of this doesn't make sense to me.  Did the ps run a CTOPP and diagnose SLD Reading or not?  They should have.  They did diagnose ADHD?  

 

 

 

It actually really matters whether this is ADHD with spelling problems (what my dd had) or DYSLEXIA (what my ds has).  The vision problems can affect her visual memory, which will glitch her spelling.  Lots of kids with ADHD have spelling problems, and the vision problems can also cause them.  So before you go spending big bucks on Barton (which I really like!), I would figure out if she actually has dyslexia.

 

See if the school ran a CTOPP.  See if the school ran any form of achievement testing.  See if there is low achievement in reading, etc. If they *didn't* run a CTOPP (or something similar), you might be able to find someone to run it affordably.  Around here I can get a reading tutor to do a CTOPP and the DRA (reading achievement test and spelling) for just $75.  That would be really, really valuable to you right now.  You could spend a ton of money on Barton and have it not be what you need.

 

You've asked some really good questions about high school, and I'll try to come back to them tonight, later.  As you say, sometimes what theoretically makes sense (5th year of high school) isn't what happens.  What was the cost of the vision therapy and is that an option?  Often VT will give major improvement in just a few months.  There are ways to get the price down (more homework, different doc, daytime hours, sliding scale, etc.).  IF she has developmental vision problems affecting her visual memory, you're going to want to work on those pronto.  That will give her the foundation for everything else.

 

You don't "recover" from ADHD.  Even people who are labeled ADHD as kids who do not have the label as adults still have ADHD brain scans in MRIs.  It's how their brain is.  Better to read a book like Dyslexic Advantage and get on board with the strengths and how to nurture the strengths.  

 

Is she your oldest?  I can tell you that high school goes very quickly.  They change very rapidly, especially from their freshman to junior years.  Her push to stay with her peers will be real.  She's going to blossom, and she's going to need a positive, strength-driven path forward.  Your window for remediation will close and your "let's find how this looks going forward" is beginning.  You're still going to continue to intervene, but right now I'm not clear what you're intervening on.  You're saying dyslexia, but no diagnosis.  You have test scores?  Lots of kids with ADHD are doing Algebra 1 their freshman and sophomore years and have things come together.  They can have a slower development and need more bake time.  

 

I agree with you about being cautious about CLE.  It's more pleasant than Abeka, but it has torturously long lessons and is incremental.

 

Did the school do any language testing as well?  I'm reading your comment about the comprehension with math.  I've found with my ds that I need curriculum that goes through things carefully, hitting the *language* of math.  When kids aren't reading, their language acquisition slows down.  Is she using audiobooks?  I would up those significantly.  Like just do it.  Get her up to 2 hours a day if you can.  Let her take up knitting or puzzles (good for the vision!!!) or other things and put on audiobooks.  Do those audiobooks and puzzles every single day.  If she shies away from puzzles, you'll have to back up to where they're easy.  I would put the books on a kindle or ipod or whatever and use earbuds.  I would pay her by the hour ($2 an hour, whatever) if she has been reluctant.  I would get a mix of things, like not just books but also Teaching Company Courses.  That will give you some "cover your butt" if that makes sense.  Like maybe you don't "do" US history her freshman year, but she listens to the mighty fine TC course from audible!  Do that, throw in a few audiobooks, watch some movies, call it done, kwim?

 

Your other tip for high school is going to be thinking through things cummulatively.  You don't have to "do" a course.  You can accumulate hours and then call it a course.  Lee Binz has terrific info on this.  Learn about credits vs. units.  Credits are material covered, while units are time spent.  Lee Binz does free workshops, so get on her mailing list.  It's PERFECT for non-traditional students.

 

I do not see anything on this assessment that says CTOPP. There are numerous components that they tested: observations, academic achievement, cognitive assessment, functional skills, emotional and behavioral. It appears that the range for the testing is 85-115.

 

For the cognitive part she scored a 77 in visual auditory learning. A 75 in in Numbers Reversed (short-term auditory memory span), An 83 in Memory for Words (measures short term auditory memory span).

 

Academic Achievement Assessment: Reading fluency was 84, Passage comprehension was 84. She scored right in the middle of the range in math which is strange because she is doing horrible in school. Spelling was 89, Broad Reading was 89. 

 

The township didn't diagnose anything. I was told based on what she struggles with (and based on how she reads and skips lines and how hard it was for me to teach her to read) that she probably had dyslexia. They told me that they do not diagnose ADD that I needed to take her to the doctor because their reporting said that she had those tendencies.  We have only been to the eye doctor from the COVD website (college of Optometrists in vision development). She said she needed therapy of which my insurance does not cover and we cannot afford) :(

 

I will be honest. I have 3 out of the 7 of us battling Lyme Disease. We have NO money. I am fighting for my health and unable to work. I do ok so long as I can stay home and rest when I need to. I have 2 older ones, 20 and 18. The 18 goes to a private school and has Lyme disease. She is so sick that the school put her on a homebound program until January and then they will re-evaluate to see if she can come back. 

 

I am so overwhelmed. So overwhelmed. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by mommy25

[Code Lyoko]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

I was going to send a long post but I think right now what you need is a hug.  Just hang in there.  O.k.?  There ARE options.  There are ways this can be handled.  We can help you brainstorm those options.  For the next few days just focus on health and bolstering moral while you try to work through things mentally.  I, and I am sure others, will post more and can help you work through what to do.  Right this very moment, though, just breath.  You are not alone.  Others have been where you are.  We will do our best to share and help.  Hang in there.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[mommy25]

😢😢😢â¤ï¸â¤ï¸â¤ï¸ thank you so much.

[Code Lyoko]

O.k. I only have a moment but one thing I was thinking about was your concern over credits.  That is honestly not hard to take care of and we can help you find ways to track credits.  Lots of options that would work and tons of resources for material that might help.  I can link some things later.  As for whether a child in High School that is doing work below High School level should get credit, that depends on the subject, the material being used, the requirements of your state, the deficits and the strengths the child is working with, and the end goal for the child.

 

The main thing right now is two fold as far as I can see.  First, you need to find out just how behind she is in each subject.  You need to figure out where the gaps are and which ones are critical to be addressed and which ones are not that important.  Without that knowledge you are shooting in the dark and doing the same thing the school was doing, pushing forward when she isn't ready.  

 

The other thing is understanding what the long and short term goal is.  Is she hoping to get into college?  Does she have any area that she might be interested in as a career?  Or has she been in survival mode so long that she has no goals?  If the latter, then I think you need to focus on how to help her find confidence while she gains critical skills.  I also think focusing on her strengths right now, and helping her find areas she could do well in, will help her (and you) tremendously over the long haul.  When kids feel they have something worthwhile they can do motivation usually increases quite a bit.

 

And I think it would work better for planning if you could commit one way or another to whether she is homeschooling for just the next few months or for at least 8th and 9th grade?  Is she going back to school for 9th?  At this point it looks to me like you don't have any good options for her going back to school, to be honest.  The only place you could send her is the school she was already at, correct?  And they offer NO supports, NO accommodations/remediation, no testing, no nothing.  They just keep pushing her through as she actually falls further behind, getting more demoralized.  That sounds like a pretty lousy option since it wasn't working before.  I don't see how that will suddenly change with just a few months of work at home, especially since you are not in a position to get evaluations.  If you could commit to working with her for a longer period of time, it gives you both more breathing room for trying to find what WILL help her and getting that implemented.

 

Gotta run but I will return later.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

 

[mommy25]

Thank you so much. I love and agree with everything you have said. I would love as much information as you can give me. I have printed everything so far so that I can go back and make notes and set some goals. I printed the CLE diagnostics tests to see how she does. I will probably print the MUS placement test too, just to have something to compare it to. Am I only worried about diagnostic test for the skill subjects?

[mommy25]

Also, I think we are in agreement that she will stay home for her 9th grade year....and maybe even for high school.

[PeterPan]

You probably won't be able to transfer once she starts high school.  The prospective school could refuse to accept your credits, meaning she'd have to start over.  I would make sure of your path. Would she be a good candidate for a vocational school or some place that people typically enter their junior year?  

[Code Lyoko]

I am going to have to post in spurts over the next few days.  I apologize for that.  Just short on time and my thoughts are a bit scattered.  Hope I can help anyway.

 

First, I wanted to address your questions regarding CLE but I want to put a disclaimer here.  I am not saying you should start your child in CLE.  I just want to explain why it can be a good program for kids that struggle with learning issues.  

 

One of the reasons I think quite a few find it very helpful is because it takes concepts in small pieces and reviews them quite a bit over a long period of time while still continuing with new concepts in small bits.  Some kids need that very badly.  Some programs introduce a concept, do a bit of review, then don't return to that concept for weeks or even months.  For a lot of kids with LDs that just makes it nearly impossible to retain anything.  It never actually gets transferred into long term memory in any cohesive way.

 

Another reason I think CLE can work incredibly well is that you can customize it for the needs of a particular child so if you need to accelerate and your child is understanding the material that is also easy to do.  Also, not every child needs ALLLLL of that review.  Many people on the WTM have posted about being able to cut out unnecessary review in areas their child is doing well.  

 

One way is to do the new material from two lessons (perhaps together on a dry erase board first using the problems from the TM to make sure they are understanding, then finish the light unit problems for the new stuff inside the workbook) then do the review problems from only the second lesson (and maybe cut out a problem or two from each section she is doing well in).  Skip the quizzes and lesson 17.  That means a light unit could be completed in maybe a week and a half instead of 3+ weeks.  Also, if you aren't taking large amounts of time off between light units then the first light unit of each level could be skipped since it is entirely review.  That saves more time. 

 

Lets look at your child in particular.  Lets say that she placed into the 500s even though she is in 8th grade.  She could run through 501, which is review but would help her solidify any gaps from previous levels.  It is designed so that areas she is solid on she can skip the additional review that is built in.  If she is grasping concepts well then she could complete the 500s in maybe 4 months.  If she doesn't need ALL of the review and you can cut out extra review problems then the lessons aren't nearly as long each day.  There is a lot of review even skipping review every other lesson and some problems from the review she is doing so that should help solidify concepts as she goes.  You can also break up the lesson.  Do the new material in one session then do the review problems later in the day.

 

If you don't take off time between the 500s and the 600s she could skip 601 since that is entirely review (unless you felt she needed more review, but there is sooooo much review in this program that I don't know that she would).  Do the accelerated schedule again for the 600s (IF she is doing well retaining and applying what she is learning).  The 600s would theoretically take even less time since you skipped all of 601.  She could finish in less than 4 months.  Take a break of maybe two weeks then start the 700s.  Again, with an accelerated schedule she could finish in around 4 months as long as she is not struggling.  800s same thing.  She could be ready for Algebra I by summer of 2018.

 

 Is that a bit behind a normal math schedule?  Yes, but not impossibly so.   And she would hopefully have a very solid foundation going into Algebra I.  If your state requires math through Algebra II to graduate with a High School diploma then she still has time to do Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II within a normal graduation time frame.  

 

Since science is frequently tied in with math skills at the High School level she would need to take a math light science for 9th and 10th grade but they exist.  There are many options that would be considered bona fide science curriculum, just with a really light math component.

 

But that was just one scenario.  There are other programs out there that might work well for your situation.  And other ways to handle CLE as well.  I need to run but I will try to return and help later on.  I have some suggestions for reading/spelling but will need to address that maybe tomorrow.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Code Lyoko

[mommy25]

You probably won't be able to transfer once she starts high school. The prospective school could refuse to accept your credits, meaning she'd have to start over. I would make sure of your path. Would she be a good candidate for a vocational school or some place that people typically enter their junior year?

Yes, this is something to consider.

We have experienced this before with our oldest and the credits transferred fine. This particular school wouldn't have a problem with it as they have worked with many homeschoolers.

[mommy25]

I am going to have to post in spurts over the next few days. I apologize for that. Just short on time and my thoughts are a bit scattered. Hope I can help anyway.

 

First, I wanted to address your questions regarding CLE but I want to put a disclaimer here. I am not saying you should start your child in CLE. I just want to explain why it can be a good program for kids that struggle with learning issues.

 

One of the reasons I think quite a few find it very helpful is because it takes concepts in small pieces and reviews them quite a bit over a long period of time while still continuing with new concepts in small bits. Some kids need that very badly. Some programs introduce a concept, do a bit of review, then don't return to that concept for weeks or even months. For a lot of kids with LDs that just makes it nearly impossible to retain anything. It never actually gets transferred into long term memory in any cohesive way.

 

Another reason I think CLE can work incredibly well is that you can customize it for the needs of a particular child so if you need to accelerate and your child is understanding the material that is also easy to do. Also, not every child needs ALLLLL of that review. Many people on the WTM have posted about being able to cut out unnecessary review in areas their child is doing well.

 

One way is to do the new material from two lessons (perhaps together on a dry erase board first using the problems from the TM to make sure they are understanding, then finish the light unit problems for the new stuff inside the workbook) then do the review problems from only the second lesson (and maybe cut out a problem or two from each section she is doing well in). Skip the quizzes and lesson 17. That means a light unit could be completed in maybe a week and a half instead of 3+ weeks. Also, if you aren't taking large amounts of time off between light units then the first light unit of each level could be skipped since it is entirely review. That saves more time.

 

Lets look at your child in particular. Lets say that she placed into the 500s even though she is in 8th grade. She could run through 501, which is review but would help her solidify any gaps from previous levels. It is designed so that areas she is solid on she can skip the additional review that is built in. If she is grasping concepts well then she could complete the 500s in maybe 4 months. If she doesn't need ALL of the review and you can cut out extra review problems then the lessons aren't nearly as long each day. There is a lot of review even skipping review every other lesson and some problems from the review she is doing so that should help solidify concepts as she goes. You can also break up the lesson. Do the new material in one session then do the review problems later in the day.

 

If you don't take off time between the 500s and the 600s she could skip 601 since that is entirely review (unless you felt she needed more review, but there is sooooo much review in this program that I don't know that she would). Do the accelerated schedule again for the 600s (IF she is doing well retaining and applying what she is learning). The 600s would theoretically take even less time since you skipped all of 601. She could finish in less than 4 months. Take a break of maybe two weeks then start the 700s. Again, with an accelerated schedule she could finish in around 4 months as long as she is not struggling. 800s same thing. She could be ready for Algebra I by summer of 2018.

 

Is that a bit behind a normal math schedule? Yes, but not impossibly so. And she would hopefully have a very solid foundation going into Algebra I. If your state requires math through Algebra II to graduate with a High School diploma then she still has time to do Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II within a normal graduation time frame.

 

Since science is frequently tied in with math skills at the High School level she would need to take a math light science for 9th and 10th grade but they exist. There are many options that would be considered bona fide science curriculum, just with a really light math component.

 

But that was just one scenario. There are other programs out there that might work well for your situation. And other ways to handle CLE as well. I need to run but I will try to return and help later on. I have some suggestions for reading/spelling but will need to address that maybe tomorrow.

Thank you!!!! I am very familiar with CLE as I used it with other kids in the past. I was always a perfectionist and had them so every problem. I LOVE your ideas on how to implement it in our situation. So is CLE's 8th grade considered a pre-algebra course? Once they finish 8th grade CLE they are ready for Algebra I?

 

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day to write and try and help. It means the world to me right now. I look forward to hearing your ideas on spelling and reading and even science and history. I think my main focus is going to be math/reading/spelling and maybe do some simple unit studies for history.

[Storygirl]

CLE covers prealgebra in both the 700 and 800 level, and after that comes algebra 1. CLE does offer algebra 1, but their other high school math programs are in revision and are not generally recommended in their current form. So you could keep with CLE through algebra if you want.

 

Some people do find that their student can jump to a different one-year prealgebra program after CLE level 6. This is a common choice, to avoid having to spend two years/levels on prealgebra. Others do only level 700, skip 800, and go right into algebra.

 

I do want to add that, even though many people are able to accelerate through CLE, some are not. DD14 switched to CLE in 5th grade and placed into level 4. She finished level 800 at the end of eighth grade. So she completed five levels in four years. Math is hard for DD14, and she absolutely needed all of the review. I would look for problems to cross off, and would find that she really needed to do it all.

 

She is now enrolled in school for ninth grade and has been earning A's and B's in algebra. :party: Her grade for her first quarter was an A!! But she still works hard, and DH reviews her homework each night to make sure she corrects her mistakes and really understands what she is doing. Math is still challenging for her.

 

All that to say that CLE worked for her after we had cried our way through and abandoned many other programs. I am a big proponent of CLE for struggling math students. But you need to be willing to slow down and not accelerate too much if your student needs all of that practice. The acceleration doesn't work for everyone.

 

Also, some students need more practice with the new concepts than CLE provides. After introducing new concepts, CLE reviews them daily, which is awesome, but only with a few problems, which may not be enough for some students to achieve mastery. As the teacher, you would need to be willing to add in additional teaching on certain topics if your student is not getting it. I made a mistake with this, I think. DS12 has a learning disability in math, and he was able to be on grade level in CLE while homeschooling, but we found when he entered school and tested for an IEP that he had some holes in basic areas. You need to watch for holes in understanding and make sure that you spend the needed time to work toward mastery in those areas.

 

Just my 2 cents about CLE. I know you feel overwhelmed, and I think you've gotten some great advice from others so far. Keep coming back with your questions; people here are happy to help. :) .

[Code Lyoko]

Storygirl has some great points.  

 

1.  CLE stretches pre-algebra concepts over 700/800.  Some people switch to another program after 600 because of that.  Some combine 700/800 into one year (using an accelerated schedule or skipping certain material).  800 also includes Consumer Math in a few light units (I think towards the end?). Some people find the Consumer Math component very important.  Others don't so they skip that part.

 

2.  CLE does go through Algebra 1 with this particular math program but the higher level math is from an older system and a different source.  Algebra 1 is considered very good as far as I have read (I have not used that level) but the older program is not.  

 

3.  Yes, only accelerate any program if the student can handle it.  Your child is already struggling in math and you are not certain why (no eval) so maybe she is behind because the school was not very good at instructing her and maybe she has math learning differences that make math harder and maybe there is something else at play.  Determining where she is at right now, what gaps she has and what she needs to understand and succeed will be critical.   What will also be critical is going at a pace she can successfully navigate.  That means that she may be able to accelerate and maybe she can't.  You'll have to stay really in tune with where she is doing well, where she is struggling, and why.  I strongly urge you not to plan her pace right now.  Just take it one day at a time for now.

 

4.  If you would prefer to use a different math program there are many other options.  I was just using CLE as an example of how you can adapt programs to work for you.  It depends on why she is struggling as to what might fit.  At this point you will probably need to plan on some experimentation to see what system will help her the most.  I wouldn't dump something just because she struggles a bit, but if she isn't making progress or the system you are using is causing constant tears and stress there is the possibility that either she was placed at too high a level or the presentation of concepts is not clicking with how she thinks.  At that point you might need to either try a lower level or try solidifying concepts through another source.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Code Lyoko

[mommy25]

CLE covers prealgebra in both the 700 and 800 level, and after that comes algebra 1. CLE does offer algebra 1, but their other high school math programs are in revision and are not generally recommended in their current form. So you could keep with CLE through algebra if you want.

 

Some people do find that their student can jump to a different one-year prealgebra program after CLE level 6. This is a common choice, to avoid having to spend two years/levels on prealgebra. Others do only level 700, skip 800, and go right into algebra.

 

I do want to add that, even though many people are able to accelerate through CLE, some are not. DD14 switched to CLE in 5th grade and placed into level 4. She finished level 800 at the end of eighth grade. So she completed five levels in four years. Math is hard for DD14, and she absolutely needed all of the review. I would look for problems to cross off, and would find that she really needed to do it all.

 

She is now enrolled in school for ninth grade and has been earning A's and B's in algebra. :party: Her grade for her first quarter was an A!! But she still works hard, and DH reviews her homework each night to make sure she corrects her mistakes and really understands what she is doing. Math is still challenging for her.

 

All that to say that CLE worked for her after we had cried our way through and abandoned many other programs. I am a big proponent of CLE for struggling math students. But you need to be willing to slow down and not accelerate too much if your student needs all of that practice. The acceleration doesn't work for everyone.

 

Also, some students need more practice with the new concepts than CLE provides. After introducing new concepts, CLE reviews them daily, which is awesome, but only with a few problems, which may not be enough for some students to achieve mastery. As the teacher, you would need to be willing to add in additional teaching on certain topics if your student is not getting it. I made a mistake with this, I think. DS12 has a learning disability in math, and he was able to be on grade level in CLE while homeschooling, but we found when he entered school and tested for an IEP that he had some holes in basic areas. You need to watch for holes in understanding and make sure that you spend the needed time to work toward mastery in those areas.

 

Just my 2 cents about CLE. I know you feel overwhelmed, and I think you've gotten some great advice from others so far. Keep coming back with your questions; people here are happy to help. :) .

Thank you, StoryGirl. :) I love hearing about your daughter and how successful she was with CLE. This is wonderful information. Thank you for the encouragement :-)

[OneStepAtATime]

I would like to share a story regarding sometimes having to step back in math before moving forwards again, if you don't mind.  It might help a bit, even though our situations may be different.

 

FWIW, my daughter is dyslexic and dyscalculic.  When we started homeschooling her for 6th grade it was an incredibly challenging learning curve for both of us.  I assumed that the reading would be our biggest hurdle (we didn't yet know that she is dyscalculic).  Actually, reading and spelling started clicking when we began using Barton.  There have been some tough days but overall her reading/spelling/writing improved 1000 fold with Barton and improvements began fairly quickly.  She went from Clifford books (a struggle but doable) at the end of 5th/beginning of 6th and being completely demoralized, believing she would never be able to read to then being able to read books like Divergent in 7th grade.  

 

Math I really didn't think would be an issue.  She had had 3 years with a really awful math teacher so I thought if we just did a bit of review to solidify things it would all fall into place.  Not even close.  And I could not figure out why.  I tried different curriculum, different approaches, etc.  We were both in tears nearly daily.  Finally, someone on the LC board suggested that I start her over with the most basic building blocks of math (just like we had done with reading using Barton).  Find out what she really actually truly understood at the most basic level.  I found out she didn't truly even comprehend that 2+2 always equaled 4 or that if you rolled two die and needed to roll a 6 that there were only a set number of combinations that you could roll to get 6.  It was all sort of random in her head.  She didn't even really understand the passage of time.  She had learned the terms but they actually had no real meaning.  She could not FEEL the passage of time so those words were just that, words.

 

We started from scratch in 7th grade.  Imagine starting completely over with basic subitization skills, not even multi digit addition but understanding the most basic number sense in 7th grade.  I was terrified.  How could she possibly catch up?  I felt sick at how far behind she truly was.  How did she make it to 5th grade in a brick and mortar school being so far behind?  Her teacher kept passing her and letting her guess multiple times on tests.  She didn't know how to help her and didn't want to admit it.  And I did not understand learning challenges like dyscalculia.  I had never even heard of it.  I was scared that DD would never be able to function as an adult and I felt horrible.  I felt like I had failed her.  Starting over was what saved her.  It was absolutely the right thing to do, and I will be forever grateful for the wonderful people on this board that talked me into it.  

 

We used a British program called Dynamo Math that incorporated one on one physical interaction with math (scripted for a layman to implement) with on line lessons and worksheets.  It was designed specifically for dyscalculics.  I also coupled it with Ronit Bird books, also designed for dyscalculics.  Things finally started to click.  Eventually I switched her over to CLE.  Several posters had recommended it for our situation.  I started her with the 200's.  The program was perfect for her.  She needed the small pieces and the tons and tons of review.  Areas that worked well for her I could cut out some of the review so the lessons were not so long but she was still getting plenty of exposure.  Areas she was struggling we would slow down and work together on the dry erase board, look at you tube videos, etc. until it made sense.  She went through 4 levels of CLE in a year and a half.   CLE was awesome.  I could adjust it to what she needed while still having the structure and the guidance of a well laid out program.  Did she still struggle at times?  Yes, and probably always will.  There are certain things that may never click.  Her math LD is far more serious an issue than her reading LD.  But now she is functioning in math in ways she never did before.  She is making real progress.

 

We stepped away from CLE for daily lessons at the end of this past year but still use it for reinforcement.  What she uses now is CTC math (on-line self-paced program I got through Homeschool Buyer's Co-op) coupled with CLE.  CTC gives her access to every level of math from kinder to Pre-Calc, which helps her tremendously since she is sort of all over the place with her math abilities now.  She also does better with colorful visual components and virtual manipulatives.  She does incredibly well with Geometry and is functioning at High School level in most respects with Geometry.  She is still working at lower levels with other math concepts but can move up and down the program as needed. For example, she is in 6th grade material for fractions and decimals, 7th grade/8th grade (pre-algebra) for statistics and probability, etc.  

 

The main thing is now she is making progress and she believes she CAN.  Yesterday she ran into a really difficult lesson regarding graphing.  She did horribly the first time through the lesson (a 30).  Instead of giving up as she once would have, she went back through the lesson on her own, studied everything in more detail and tried it again (the program generates new problems every time you do a lesson so you aren't repeating the same material).  She did much better, getting a 70.  She decided to try again.  She got an 80.  She decided to keep doing the lesson until she had 100.  She made it.  And felt great.  

 

She has confidence now that with time she can tackle a lot of things.  And accepts that it may take more time for her than for a neurotypical child but that doesn't mean she is stupid or incapable.  She has also accepted that there are some things in math in particular that will probably never click and that's o.k., too.  She is flexible enough and confident enough now that she is willing to find different ways to approach material or ways to work around the areas that just are not clicking much at all.  As an example, DD has never successfully been able to do long standard form multiplication.  It does not make sense in her brain.  Instead of continuing to beat her head against that wall we were shown lattice method by a math specialist and it made a HUGE difference.  Once she mastered that method (which looked like gobbledygook to me for the longest :) ) suddenly she could multiply huge numbers very quickly.  It was life changing for her.

 

I share all of this to say that what may be more important than just getting your child through specific grade level material is to help her regain confidence and to help her gain the tenacity to work through the hard things, as well as be flexible enough to seek other options when something isn't working.  And to reassure you that sometimes stepping way, way back (not saying your child needs to go nearly as far back as mine, though) actually helps a child finally move forward with success, not just limping along trying to survive.

 

I wish you all the best in your journey.  I will try and post more this weekend if I think of anything else useful I could share.  Best wishes.

[mommy25]

Ok, my kids are in the middle of taking the CLE diagnostic tests that I printed from the website. I am just now realizing that I have to buy the teacher manual in order to score the test? Is this correct or is there another way?

Edited November 19, 2016 by mommy25

[OneStepAtATime]

Ok, my kids are in the middle of taking the CLE diagnostic tests that I printed from the website. I am just now realizing that I have to buy the teacher manual in order to score the test? Is this correct or is there another way?

No the TM should be on the same page as the diagnostic tests you printed.  Maybe below?

 

The tests can be long.  You might want to give them a break and let them return to it later.

[mommy25]

Ok I will look again. In the instructions for taking the test, it's says that I need the teacher's manual to grade. Thanks :)

[mommy25]

I found it. 🙄🙄

[Code Lyoko]

I found it. 🙄🙄

I was just about to link it.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

I wanted to mention some options for Middle School and High School level material written at a lower reading level.  Besides Walsh Power Basics (as I believe OhElizabeth mentioned up thread)  there are also the Pacemaker series and AGS textbooks.  All three are good resources for kids that may not be reading at grade level but are at Middle School/High School level in age.  

 

The link below is to some AGS textbooks you might look into but I would not buy from this site.  Too expensive.  You can see inside the books, though.  There are also a lot of support materials including work books, TMs, etc.  Use the links below to see if anything might work then get the ISBN and order used through either Amazon or ABE books.  Much cheaper.  

 

I have used the AGS textbooks with DD.  They are well laid out.  I need to add in videos and documentaries to keep things engaging but the material isn't bad.  Barton has really turned DD's reading skills around but she still fatigues easily.  The AGS material has bigger print and more space around the text than a normal High School textbook, as well as easier words so it creates much less strain for DD.  

 

It is very colorful, though.  Some students find all the color distracting, while others need the color to stay engaged.  If color is a distraction for your child I believe the Power Basics books are black and white (although I don't know that for certain).

 

Anyway, below are links to AGS textbooks that might be of interest to you further down the line...

 

Science Texts:

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/ags-general-science-mm7471.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/ags-physical-science-2004-mm7396.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/biology-cycles-of-life-mm8081.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/ags-chemistry-mm8391.htm

 

Math Texts: 

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/basic-math-skills-mm7351.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/pre-algebra-textbook-mm7441.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/consumer-mathematics-mm7371.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/algebra-textbook-mm7431.htm

 

Literature:

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/ags-world-literature-mm8351.htm

http://www.wiesereducational.com/products/ags-american-literature-mm8221.htm

Edited November 19, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[kbutton]

The symptoms of dyslexia the school pointed out to you could be dyslexia. They also could be related to the visual issues. My second child had some soft signs of dyslexia that were very similar, and it turned out to be the visual issues. We had been seeing a COVD for a variety of reasons, and the COVD hadn't really seen the issues up to that point. I finally mentioned the symptoms in the schoolwork in case it was related. As a result, she pushed my son visually during her regular testing, and he fell apart. For him, it was the amount of input--he could compensate for a little while, and then it was all over. Her testing had been on fresh eyes and was short (but thorough). When she just kept it up and tired him out, all those things came to light. She was shocked he'd ever learned to read given how bad things fell apart when he was pushed. Vision therapy was life-changing. One big problem my son had was handwriting and copying from another paper or the board. He couldn't do it. It was awful. VT helped tremendously with that. I just wish we'd found that out before going through another round of cognitive testing! The cognitive testing didn't tell us anything except that his scores were all over the board from the lowest to highest end of normal (a huge spread, but the school didn't much care). Your case sounds very, very similar.

 

Is there any chance that your VT person would be willing to do minimal in office stuff and give you copious homework? Our office gave homework as the standard thing, and they were very up front about telling us how much of a difference it makes. In fact, they credit sticking to the homework as being one of the reasons that both of my kids made it through VT as quickly as they did. (It was also life-changing for my older son even though his issues showed up differently, not as soft signs of dyslexia.)

 

If you cannot do VT, I strongly encourage you to pressure the school into a CTOPP and appropriate dyslexia testing. If she doesn't actually have dyslexia, buying Barton isn't going to help.

 

If you cannot do VT, she will need some kind of remediation you can do at home (maybe someone has a book or other options for you to try), and you probably need to modify your curriculum and work options to make school as easy on the vision as possible--scribing, oral work, documentaries, audio books, etc. 

 

I know this is not super encouraging, but at least maybe if you get the CTOPP testing done, you can figure out if it's real dyslexia or vision. That would go a LONG way in helping you figure things out. If it all comes down to vision, maybe someone would be willing to help you out with VT through a scholarship program or something of that nature. Or maybe grandparents would be willing to pitch in? I guess I am trying to be positive that you could have one issue instead of 2, but I know that either one costs $$$.

 

I think you are getting good advice. Many  :grouphug: . 

[mommy25]

The symptoms of dyslexia the school pointed out to you could be dyslexia. They also could be related to the visual issues. My second child had some soft signs of dyslexia that were very similar, and it turned out to be the visual issues. We had been seeing a COVD for a variety of reasons, and the COVD hadn't really seen the issues up to that point. I finally mentioned the symptoms in the schoolwork in case it was related. As a result, she pushed my son visually during her regular testing, and he fell apart. For him, it was the amount of input--he could compensate for a little while, and then it was all over. Her testing had been on fresh eyes and was short (but thorough). When she just kept it up and tired him out, all those things came to light. She was shocked he'd ever learned to read given how bad things fell apart when he was pushed. Vision therapy was life-changing. One big problem my son had was handwriting and copying from another paper or the board. He couldn't do it. It was awful. VT helped tremendously with that. I just wish we'd found that out before going through another round of cognitive testing! The cognitive testing didn't tell us anything except that his scores were all over the board from the lowest to highest end of normal (a huge spread, but the school didn't much care). Your case sounds very, very similar.

 

Is there any chance that your VT person would be willing to do minimal in office stuff and give you copious homework? Our office gave homework as the standard thing, and they were very up front about telling us how much of a difference it makes. In fact, they credit sticking to the homework as being one of the reasons that both of my kids made it through VT as quickly as they did. (It was also life-changing for my older son even though his issues showed up differently, not as soft signs of dyslexia.)

 

We have met with them twice and with their proposed adjustments it still costs more money than we have. There is a computer program that they use that they said I could purchase to help with the vision. But its like $300.  I watched the COVD doctor test her and at one point my daughter broke down (very teary eyed) because the testing became too intense. :(

I am leaning more towards it being a vision problem. She has glasses now that are suppose to help with this. 

 

If you cannot do VT, I strongly encourage you to pressure the school into a CTOPP and appropriate dyslexia testing. If she doesn't actually have dyslexia, buying Barton isn't going to help.

 

The school does not do this type of testing. It is a small, private christian school. They always defer to the township. The township said they didn't need to intervene. We don't even live in that township. I was driving almost 2 hours a day, dropping off and picking up. 

 

If you cannot do VT, she will need some kind of remediation you can do at home (maybe someone has a book or other options for you to try), and you probably need to modify your curriculum and work options to make school as easy on the vision as possible--scribing, oral work, documentaries, audio books, etc. 

 

This is what I need. I need to learn what materials to choose and how to implement it to enable her to learn. I am frustrating feeling like I have to choose "appropriate" materials/subjects for her age knowing it is only going to frustrate her. 

 

I know this is not super encouraging, but at least maybe if you get the CTOPP testing done, you can figure out if it's real dyslexia or vision. That would go a LONG way in helping you figure things out. If it all comes down to vision, maybe someone would be willing to help you out with VT through a scholarship program or something of that nature. Or maybe grandparents would be willing to pitch in? I guess I am trying to be positive that you could have one issue instead of 2, but I know that either one costs $$$.

 

Believe me, if I thought there was a way, I would be jumping at it. We are trying to buy a house (lost our home a few years ago, bankruptcy, loss of job etc), I need a vehicle (mine is breaking down)...Its just basic things that we need right now. I am praying that I can some how find something to help without spending a fortune.   :sad: 

 

I think you are getting good advice. Many  :grouphug: . 

 

thanks for the hugs. :)

 

[PeterPan]

You can trying calling around to other developmental optometrists to see what options you might have.  Some practices have a no child leaves untreated policy.  Some have payments or a financing option.  Some places will give you a lower price for coming in during the day.  Some places will work with you, doing lots more homework and spaced appointments.  

 

If I could afford once a month of REALLY GOOD therapy, I'd do that.  Like nothing says it has to be at the frequency they say!  But upfront and ask if you can have spaced appts and more homework.  There's a LOT you can do as homework.  For us, one hour of therapy got done (got more accomplished, got more skills) than what I could do with my dd in a week.  But still what I did at home was worth something!  So I always think doing once a month appts with lots of homework is better than nothing.  Or every other week.  

 

I would do spaced appts with lots of homework rather than the software.

 

There *is* a book on doing VT at home, but it's, well I just think you'll be happier if you have someone helping you.  I have the book.  It's by Kenneth Lane.  It's very expensive, and it's not going to help you pick what issues to work on or know what to do when things are hard or feel bad.  It's not going to give you any of the equipment (flippers, etc.) they use to do specialized work. The fact that she fatigued and wanted to stop tells you that the vision issues are HUGE for her right now and really causing a problem!  I would up-priority making something happen.

 

We prefer no-debt in our house, so my first advice that was is the spaced appts.  But I will tell you that VT made a HUGE difference here.  You could sell something.  You could cancel Christmas.  You could ask in-laws to help.  You could take out a loan.  You could find some job, maybe cleaning once a week ($75 a pop) and save ahead so that you could keep up with the cost of the spaced appointments.  

 

VT made a HUGE difference here.  Try selling things and asking the grandparents for help.

Edited November 20, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[OneStepAtATime]

Mommy25, I am so sorry all of this is falling on your shoulders.   You are in a challenging position.   You are fighting health issues, health issues of other family members, financial issues, learning challenges, etc. etc.  That is so much to deal with.  I wish I could reach through the internet, give you a hug, and take all of this away.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I agree with kbutton and OhE that the vision issues may be a very strong factor in your daughter's struggles.  I agree with OhE, you might call around and see if anyone else can offer something more affordable.  You might also do as she suggested and see if they would be willing to let your daughter do therapy once a month and do homework the rest of the time.  FWIW, doing only computer based VT is not recommended.  There are programs out there but they usually are better for maintenance AFTER VT.  

 

Since VT may not be in the picture at this moment, I will share our own story as it might help you.

 

FWIW, my own children (and me too - the world looks like a kaleidoscope to me if I don't have my glasses on) have developmental vision issues (but they manifest differently).  My daughter is also near sighted.  The glasses help with her visual acuity but do absolutely nothing to correct her developmental vision issues.  She needs VT.  So does my son (and my son has perfect visual acuity so glasses don't help him at all).  We had hoped to start VT last spring or over the summer but insurance would not cover it and the cost was too high.  It is also 4 hours away and we ran into some personal issues that made going a bad idea for the moment.  We are keeping VT as a plan for the future but it is not feasible at this time.  I do completely sympathize with your situation.  

 

Since VT is something we have had to table for the moment, we had to adjust how we tackle material.  I will discuss DD in particular.  When they did the testing, they discovered that DD can work well for about 15 minutes.  At the 15 to 20 minute mark her eyes get so fatigued, so overwhelmed from trying to work correctly that they almost cease to function.  She cannot bring the images she is seeing into alignment.  She has to rest her eyes for any close work for at least 20 minutes.  We have those breaks for close work built into our schedule now.  She also does much better with larger print, more white space, and less clutter when reading.  I bought her a large print dictionary.  She reads in short segments.  I read to her for things in small print.  We use some AGS textbooks for certain subjects because the print is larger, there is more white space, etc.  She watches documentaries and Great Courses for additional content information.  We use Fix-It Grammar and the lessons have a lot of white space and only work with one sentence a day.  Etc.  The modification has helped quite a bit.

 

DD is also dyslexic, though.  The vision issues are a problem but what was preventing her from reading was also very weak phonemic awareness.  She had to have a very structured program to show her how to decode words, how to spell, etc.  We did Barton and it made a tremendous difference.  She reads at grade level now.  She just needs to read in short segments.  I say this to say that while the vision seems to be a huge part of the problem with your daughter, it may not be her only issue.  Has she ever been through a phonics based reading program?

 

Since Barton is not a possibility for you right now, and VT may also not be in the cards right now, my suggestion is to maybe try implementing some of what we did above (and include audio books hopefully with head phones) for the vision issues but you may still need to get your daughter through a dyslexia friendly program for learning to read.  And keep lessons very short, if you choose to do something for phonics.

 

I know that Elizabeth B (a poster on WTM) has a free program that has helped some.  You might look at that.  I will link it below...

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html

 

She is very nice and could probably answer any questions you might have. I have not used her program so I cannot give you feedback on the program itself but it is free, the creator can probably help you if you run into trouble, and it might be better than not trying anything at all to address the possible dyslexia.  I hope you are finding this thread helpful and not discouraging.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  

Edited November 20, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[kbutton]

I am sorry the VT person can't/won't offer things that could make it within reach. That is so frustrating!

 

By the school, I wondered if the district (I think you said township) would be willing to run the additional test. It's not an intervention, and sometimes they just need to be pressured or asked using the magic, secret code word. It's okay if you don't pursue this! No pressure from me. Some districts will do the bare minimum, but if you ask for specifics, then they will do more. It's just the nature of bureaucracy to be weird and idiosyncratic. Otherwise, I would not have mentioned it. Don't let my suggestion make you feel bad!!!

 

I am sorry things are so difficult. :-( 

 

[PeterPan]

My dd now wears bifocal contacts to give her extra boost with her close-up work.  That's enough for her to bust through the remaining weakness OneStep is talking about.  My dd has low muscle tone overall, and your eyes use muscles.  So you make the pathways with the VT to get the function *and* get them stronger.  However the stronger is going to fade on some kids, even though the pathways in the brain remain.  So that's where the glasses or contacts can help, yes.  

[mommy25]

You can trying calling around to other developmental optometrists to see what options you might have.  Some practices have a no child leaves untreated policy.  Some have payments or a financing option.  Some places will give you a lower price for coming in during the day.  Some places will work with you, doing lots more homework and spaced appointments.  

 

If I could afford once a month of REALLY GOOD therapy, I'd do that.  Like nothing says it has to be at the frequency they say!  But upfront and ask if you can have spaced appts and more homework.  There's a LOT you can do as homework.  For us, one hour of therapy got done (got more accomplished, got more skills) than what I could do with my dd in a week.  But still what I did at home was worth something!  So I always think doing once a month appts with lots of homework is better than nothing.  Or every other week.  

 

I would do spaced appts with lots of homework rather than the software.

 

There *is* a book on doing VT at home, but it's, well I just think you'll be happier if you have someone helping you.  I have the book.  It's by Kenneth Lane.  It's very expensive, and it's not going to help you pick what issues to work on or know what to do when things are hard or feel bad.  It's not going to give you any of the equipment (flippers, etc.) they use to do specialized work. The fact that she fatigued and wanted to stop tells you that the vision issues are HUGE for her right now and really causing a problem!  I would up-priority making something happen.

 

We prefer no-debt in our house, so my first advice that was is the spaced appts.  But I will tell you that VT made a HUGE difference here.  You could sell something.  You could cancel Christmas.  You could ask in-laws to help.  You could take out a loan.  You could find some job, maybe cleaning once a week ($75 a pop) and save ahead so that you could keep up with the cost of the spaced appointments.  

 

VT made a HUGE difference here.  Try selling things and asking the grandparents for help.

 

Thank you :) I am really gonna be praying about this because I feel like we need to do this somehow, someway. I cannot hold a job right now because I fighting Lyme. I cannot be on my feet for very long. My energy is reserved for my family. No homeschooling would get done if I worked. My husband is working 70+ hours a week. There is no help from in-laws. Cannot take out a loan because our credit score is too low. :/ And when we lost our home 4 years ago, most everything we owned we got rid of to move into a smaller place. I am hoping Christmas is even a possibility. 

 

But I am not giving up! Hopefully something can be worked out! Thanks for being supportive and offering suggestions. I am gonna talk to them again and maybe look up other docs, too, and see what they have to say. :)

 

[kbutton]

BTW, did the VT give a report detailing the specific issues she has? It might help you compare therapies and prices if there are other practices in the area. Also, it might help you when you evaluate what curriculum options you have available so that you don't overwhelm her.

 

Did he make any suggestions about lining things up? Some people must cover all but what little bit of text or math they are looking at. Some people use grid paper (particularly large grid paper). Some people enlarge things or work on a white board because the size of the text makes a difference. Trying to brainstorm a bit for you...

[mommy25]

Mommy25, I am so sorry all of this is falling on your shoulders.   You are in a challenging position.   You are fighting health issues, health issues of other family members, financial issues, learning challenges, etc. etc.  That is so much to deal with.  I wish I could reach through the internet, give you a hug, and take all of this away.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I agree with kbutton and OhE that the vision issues may be a very strong factor in your daughter's struggles.  I agree with OhE, you might call around and see if anyone else can offer something more affordable.  You might also do as she suggested and see if they would be willing to let your daughter do therapy once a month and do homework the rest of the time.  FWIW, doing only computer based VT is not recommended.  There are programs out there but they usually are better for maintenance AFTER VT.  

 

Since VT may not be in the picture at this moment, I will share our own story as it might help you.

 

FWIW, my own children (and me too - the world looks like a kaleidoscope to me if I don't have my glasses on) have developmental vision issues (but they manifest differently).  My daughter is also near sighted.  The glasses help with her visual acuity but do absolutely nothing to correct her developmental vision issues.  She needs VT.  So does my son (and my son has perfect visual acuity so glasses don't help him at all).  We had hoped to start VT last spring or over the summer but insurance would not cover it and the cost was too high.  It is also 4 hours away and we ran into some personal issues that made going a bad idea for the moment.  We are keeping VT as a plan for the future but it is not feasible at this time.  I do completely sympathize with your situation.  

 

Since VT is something we have had to table for the moment, we had to adjust how we tackle material.  I will discuss DD in particular.  When they did the testing, they discovered that DD can work well for about 15 minutes.  At the 15 to 20 minute mark her eyes get so fatigued, so overwhelmed from trying to work correctly that they almost cease to function.  She cannot bring the images she is seeing into alignment.  She has to rest her eyes for any close work for at least 20 minutes.  We have those breaks for close work built into our schedule now.  She also does much better with larger print, more white space, and less clutter when reading.  I bought her a large print dictionary.  She reads in short segments.  I read to her for things in small print.  We use some AGS textbooks for certain subjects because the print is larger, there is more white space, etc.  She watches documentaries and Great Courses for additional content information.  We use Fix-It Grammar and the lessons have a lot of white space and only work with one sentence a day.  Etc.  The modification has helped quite a bit.

 

DD is also dyslexic, though.  The vision issues are a problem but what was preventing her from reading was also very weak phonemic awareness.  She had to have a very structured program to show her how to decode words, how to spell, etc.  We did Barton and it made a tremendous difference.  She reads at grade level now.  She just needs to read in short segments.  I say this to say that while the vision seems to be a huge part of the problem with your daughter, it may not be her only issue.  Has she ever been through a phonics based reading program?

 

Since Barton is not a possibility for you right now, and VT may also not be in the cards right now, my suggestion is to maybe try implementing some of what we did above (and include audio books hopefully with head phones) for the vision issues but you may still need to get your daughter through a dyslexia friendly program for learning to read.  And keep lessons very short, if you choose to do something for phonics.

 

I know that Elizabeth B (a poster on WTM) has a free program that has helped some.  You might look at that.  I will link it below...

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html

 

She is very nice and could probably answer any questions you might have. I have not used her program so I cannot give you feedback on the program itself but it is free, the creator can probably help you if you run into trouble, and it might be better than not trying anything at all to address the possible dyslexia.  I hope you are finding this thread helpful and not discouraging.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  

You are so very sweet! Thank you for taking the time to write and encourage me. It means the world to me! 

 

I love your suggestions, too. I like the idea of working in 20 min increments. 

 

It never crossed my mind that I should go back to a phonics program for an 8th grader who's 5'10, 140lb and a basketball player?! I just figured if she can read the words she didn't need it. She just can't stay focused on it without her mind wandering. Do you really think it would help? What about the Apples and Pears spelling books? hmmmm.....

 

I am gonna look at Elizabeth's phonic page, too. :)

 

Thank you!   :thumbup1:

Edited November 20, 2016 by mommy25

[mommy25]

BTW, did the VT give a report detailing the specific issues she has? It might help you compare therapies and prices if there are other practices in the area. Also, it might help you when you evaluate what curriculum options you have available so that you don't overwhelm her.

 

Did he make any suggestions about lining things up? Some people must cover all but what little bit of text or math they are looking at. Some people use grid paper (particularly large grid paper). Some people enlarge things or work on a white board because the size of the text makes a difference. Trying to brainstorm a bit for you...

Yes, she gave me a very detailed report. 

 

I don't remember anything about lining things up....

 

She did mention that she needs larger type. I was thinking of putting up a large white board for instructing her and also for her to work out problems.