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If your middle schooler left campus to protest WWYD

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And what happens during a power failure? 

I don't think it is safe to lock a building from the inside. 

Well, again, an announcement stating the parents would be notified, Saturday School/ISS/Detention, whatever would probably curb most of it.

 

And, generally speaking, a school that makes such an annoucement, and makes the effort to account for all students and inform all parents.....I would say they aren't "allowing" the kids to go to a protest. 

 

As far as power failures, the schools that I have been in have emergency lights and other emergency necessities on a separate power system.  For some it's generators, for others it's batteries.  But, we are talking about kids walking out in a protest here, not a true emergency where a power failure is happening. 

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At my kids' middle school, according to the rules, they would need to be signed out by a parent.  The door at the front office is locked to prevent unauthorized entry though anyone can walk out - it does beep when that happens and the office staff is generally aware.  If the students somehow left en masse, or the student snuck out, I wouldn't expect the school to be able to do anything.  ETA, the student would also be marked absent from any class periods missed and at some point the computer system would automatically notify me of that if it's not excused.

 

I'd be mad at my child for skipping class and attending a protest alone and without texting me for permission.  However, I'd guess that many middle schoolers would not anticipate the possibility of violence - certainly food for discussion afterward.

Edited by wapiti
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I think I would be fine with it. 

 

I would be upset with the school to try and prevent a large group from protesting. It's their right to do so and anything the school would do to stop it would probably end badly. 

 

I wouldn't be upset with the school for allowing it at all. It sounds like an organized protest with a rather large group of students probably all walking together. 

 

Of course, most of our middle school students walked to and from school. They also often walked the 2 miles after to a large strip mall for food and to hang out after school. So,them being out and about on their own just was never a big issue here. 

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And what happens during a power failure? 

I don't think it is safe to lock a building from the inside. 

 

I think in a power failure the alarms wouldn't work, but the doors would still open.    

 

I think I'd be pretty annoyed if my kid took off school to go to a protest without letting me know/asking my permission (at that age).  Regardless of the type of protest.  I don't understand being proud of a kid for going off like that - against, regardless of the type of protest.  If I think you are at school, you'd better be at school.    Sure, I'd be proud of my kid for wanting to attend a protest for/against an issue they felt strongly about.  But I need to know.

 

If the school took the kids out to a protest without my permission, I'd be angry with the school.   

 

Edited by marbel
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Well, again, an announcement stating the parents would be notified, Saturday School/ISS/Detention, whatever would probably curb most of it.

 

And, generally speaking, a school that makes such an annoucement, and makes the effort to account for all students and inform all parents.....I would say they aren't "allowing" the kids to go to a protest. 

 

As far as power failures, the schools that I have been in have emergency lights and other emergency necessities on a separate power system.  For some it's generators, for others it's batteries.  But, we are talking about kids walking out in a protest here, not a true emergency where a power failure is happening. 

 

I guess I'm not understanding.  If doors are locked from the inside using a system where they are opened during an emergency, what do you do if there is a power failure.  I'm saying this is probably why they do not lock doors from inside.  That would be a safety hazard. 

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I am rather surprised at how many kids would be ok with that.

 

This last week or so, there has been violence at many protests.  NOW TO BE CLEAR...I am not saying that all these protests are violent or that most protestors have been violent...not saying that at all.  BUT, at many protests, small groups of people have used the protest as an excuse to commit illegal acts.  There's no way I would trust an 11 or 12 yr old to be able to make a proper risk assessment of these situations, or to know what to do should someone start to get crazy.

 

How is a school supposed to prevent a kid from leaving...um, lock the doors? Don't most schools lock the doors during the day?  After Sandy Hook, every school my kids have attended have locked ALL the doors during the school day, requiring everyone to be buzzed in and out.  I am surprised there are places that don't do that.  But even if you don't, a simple announcement that says something like "we do not support students leaving in the middle of the day and all students found absent without a valid note from mom/dad/doc/whatever" will receive Saturday School/Detention/ISS/whatever and your parents will IMMEDIATELY be called" should probably curb most of it. 

 

I am more than a bit surprised your schools are locking exit doors. That would be against most fire codes.

 

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And let's get real.  It may be our right to protest, but not under any and all circumstances and we certainly would not be protected from being fired if we walked out during our job to do it.  School is a kid's job essentially.  They can still protest at another time.

 

And I would absolutely not feel good about having my 11 year old (middle school age) going off to a protest without knowing someone is looking out for him.  And he might just be going there because a friend is going and not because he has any real clue what he is protesting.  So is it really about the protest?  Or just being a lemming?   I don't want my kid to grow up to be a lemming.

 

 

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There's a time and a place for protesting and during class hours isn't it.

 

I would punish the student the same as if he/she had cut class for any other reason.

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I am more than a bit surprised your schools are locking exit doors. That would be against most fire codes.

 

 

That's what I thought.

 

If the school locked doors and kids couldn't get out in an emergency the school officials would be so dead because we would so kill them. 

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It was against the rules for kids to leave my middle school. It didn't stop me from leaving though. Since I refused to ever return, I never faced any consequences for leaving. They can not tackle kids and make them stay. Some kids might acquiesce to stay if ordered to but then there are kids like I was...good luck stopping me.

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I can only tell you what I told my own kid. I said that I cannot prevent him from exercising his constitutional rights. But, if he chooses to participate in a peaceful student walk out in support of the large local immigrant population, then he has to be prepared to accept any punishment the school hands out. He thought that was fair. I still don't know what he decided. I guess I will find out later today, lol.

 

I have been to many, many protests/marches over the decades and I have never seen violence at any of them. Have I been yelled at by people in opposition? Sure. They have just as much a right to speak as I do, so it doesn't bother me. I know it can happen, but I think it gets a lot more attention in relation to it's actual probability.

 

 

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For me, it's the idea of my kid being somewhere that I don't know about when I am under the belief that they are somewhere else.

 

When I was in 4th grade, I was out playing with friends in the summer.  This was of course before cell phones, but I wouldn't let a 4th...or 6th...grader have a cell phone anyway.  My parents rule was we were allowed to be at the house of friends X or Y or Z or even A or B or C....but if we left one and went to the other, we HAD to let our parents know.  This usually meant using the house phone at the home we were at to call to say we were going to X's house from Y.

 

Anyway, in the middle of 4th grade, we were out playing at a friends house, and decided to go to another friends house.  (we being my sister and I)  We called my mom as instructed and ran down the street to friends house.  An hour later, my dad came to pick us up, rather unexpected.  My brother had fallen on a cement step and busted his head open, my mom had to run him to the ER.  My dad picked us up on his way to the ER (my brother is fine, a couple stitches, a couple Xrays that showed he didnt' do any more damage, but he wasn't admitted or anything.)  What I clearly remember most was how appreciative my mom was that she knew where we were when the emergency happened. 

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I think I would be okay with it. I would hope it was something I had actually heard my child have an opinion about and had voiced. If not, I would probably think they were just going along with a crowd and that is troubling. I would enforce any consequences the school gave.

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Let's also say that middle school students walk out en masse. Even if teachers were hypothetically restraining them, they couldn't hold them all back. So then, of course, they need to notify parents. Again, if you have to notify a large group of parents, and you have a limited number of staff (some of whom are still with the students who didn't leave) and phone lines, it could take a little while to call everyone, and then there's no guarantee that you're even going to be able to reach every single parent. 

 

Our district has a robo-call thingie that the principal could record a message and then have sent out automatically to parents. So absolutely I would expect notification if a large group of students left campus.

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  And he might just be going there because a friend is going and not because he has any real clue what he is protesting.  So is it really about the protest?  Or just being a lemming?   I don't want my kid to grow up to be a lemming.

 

And maybe those staying are staying in school just because a teacher told them to? 

 

Or they're staying in school just because a parent told them to?

 

They have no real clue what the role of the modern education system is. So is it really about learning? Or is it just being a lemming, learning to be a cog in an authoritarian regime, to submit to all authority? 

 

;) 

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I think I would be fine with it. 

 

I would be upset with the school to try and prevent a large group from protesting. It's their right to do so and anything the school would do to stop it would probably end badly. 

 

I wouldn't be upset with the school for allowing it at all. It sounds like an organized protest with a rather large group of students probably all walking together. 

 

Of course, most of our middle school students walked to and from school. They also often walked the 2 miles after to a large strip mall for food and to hang out after school. So,them being out and about on their own just was never a big issue here. 

 

It is their right to do so. It is not their right to do so during school hours, when the school is in loco parentis

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And let's get real.  It may be our right to protest, but not under any and all circumstances and we certainly would not be protected from being fired if we walked out during our job to do it.  School is a kid's job essentially.  They can still protest at another time.

 

Exactly! There were weekend protests that students could've chosen to participate in. It is not okay to cut class to go protest.

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I would expect the school to make an attempt to clearly discourage / forbid this form of truancy -- but I can't imagine an ability to enforce keeping kids on campus. I'd also expect the beginnings of parent notification calls, but, I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't call everyone (unless they could, but didn't).

 

I would be livid at any "wink-wink there's a protest right now, but you totally shouldn't go" type of behaviour from teachers or staff.

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I am rather surprised at how many kids would be ok with that.

 

This last week or so, there has been violence at many protests.  NOW TO BE CLEAR...I am not saying that all these protests are violent or that most protestors have been violent...not saying that at all.  BUT, at many protests, small groups of people have used the protest as an excuse to commit illegal acts.  There's no way I would trust an 11 or 12 yr old to be able to make a proper risk assessment of these situations, or to know what to do should someone start to get crazy.

 

How is a school supposed to prevent a kid from leaving...um, lock the doors? Don't most schools lock the doors during the day?  After Sandy Hook, every school my kids have attended have locked ALL the doors during the school day, requiring everyone to be buzzed in and out.  I am surprised there are places that don't do that.  But even if you don't, a simple announcement that says something like "we do not support students leaving in the middle of the day and all students found absent without a valid note from mom/dad/doc/whatever" will receive Saturday School/Detention/ISS/whatever and your parents will IMMEDIATELY be called" should probably curb most of it. 

 

No. Most school doors are not locked from the inside to prevent exit and locking exits is a fire hazard. In many states it's against fire code. Locking them from the outside to prevent entry is not the same.

Edited by Sneezyone
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Well, again, an announcement stating the parents would be notified, Saturday School/ISS/Detention, whatever would probably curb most of it.

 

Canceling dances and sporting events if more than X% of students left campus would put peer pressure not to participate.

 

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I am rather surprised at how many kids would be ok with that.

 

This last week or so, there has been violence at many protests. NOW TO BE CLEAR...I am not saying that all these protests are violent or that most protestors have been violent...not saying that at all. BUT, at many protests, small groups of people have used the protest as an excuse to commit illegal acts. There's no way I would trust an 11 or 12 yr old to be able to make a proper risk assessment of these situations, or to know what to do should someone start to get crazy.

 

How is a school supposed to prevent a kid from leaving...um, lock the doors? Don't most schools lock the doors during the day? After Sandy Hook, every school my kids have attended have locked ALL the doors during the school day, requiring everyone to be buzzed in and out. I am surprised there are places that don't do that. But even if you don't, a simple announcement that says something like "we do not support students leaving in the middle of the day and all students found absent without a valid note from mom/dad/doc/whatever" will receive Saturday School/Detention/ISS/whatever and your parents will IMMEDIATELY be called" should probably curb most of it.

Doors are locked to keep people out, not kids in. They can push them open from the inside. Locking a building g to prevent exit is a huge safety fire hazard.

 

In many schools, kids go outside to get from one class to the next, they have to go out to different buildings, so they are out & can theoretically, just walk off campus if they want to.

 

The svhool cannot stop them, just punish after the fact.

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Canceling dances and sporting events if more than X% of students left campus would put peer pressure not to participate.

 

You think it's fair that the kids who stayed should be punished too?

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I don't think the schools around here would allow that. When oldest dd was in those grades she wasn't allowed to easily leave school. Given that background, I wouldn't be ok with that and I'd definitely address it with the school.

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I would absolutely support it and be proud of my child. I think it is totally okay to skip class to protest and I am dismayed that people think it isn't. In most other countries there is strong support for protest: students go on strike and this is an accepted and respected action. IMO it is a very healthy thing.

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The svhool cannot stop them, just punish after the fact.

I am certainly able to admit that I may very well be misunderstanding the whole process of locking doors and such. 

 

BUT...ultimately...if the school is issuing consequences, notifying parents, and telling the kids they are not permitted....I would say that the school is not "allowing" it.  At that point, my problem becomes about my kid and not about the school they attend.  If the school is allowing or encouraging in anyway way that kid leave school to protest, WITHOUT my knowledge, I would be livid and down there so fast I might break the sound barrier lol.  My kid would still be in trouble ALSO...but the school would absolutely bear responsibility for encouraging my 11 yr old to be somewhere without the parent's knowledge.

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I think I'd be having a great chat with my child before deciding I was "proud" of her or him for protesting.  Let's face it, these children of non-voting age are mostly acting on 1) the political views of their parents and/or teachers, and/or 2) the ability to get out of class, and/or 3) the views of their peers and wanting to fit in.  I'd like to see some journalism done on the kids' own articulation of why they are protesting in the first place.  Just hate the President-Elect?  OK, that's fair, and so why was protesting helpful to you and our community? Can you express your disdain and dissatisfaction in a better way or was that the most useful?  Did you do it because you think the election was unfair?  Please explain in detail.  Ohhh, you can't?  Well, let's see what assignments you missed and then you can explain what you learned in great detail to me because perhaps that's a more useful way to spend your time. Or, perhaps, middle schoolers have inside information on how this candidate was not elected legitimately and they can enlighten the world.  You never know. Are you afraid?  Who told you to be afraid and why do you believe them?  Lots of great questions for these children.  :)

 

I think protesting is a great right.  I think having the brains to know why you're doing it shows great wisdom.  Self-expression and civic action is most wise when it helps others and not just one's own self. Civic action for the sake of civic action that will not bring about change is less useful, IMO.  (But still, of course, a right. Just know that few people will actually be paying attention if the goal is only to express dissatisfaction and not an actual *cause*. Which is OK.)

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I would be very, very concerned if I found out that my middle schooler son was somewhere downtown in the middle of a large group (probably with little cash on him as this protest sounds unplanned) and I had no way of knowing if his safety was at risk. I live in a blue state where there are protests galore in schools in the past few days - news stations are reporting that teachers, staff and admins are walking along side the protesting students to ensure that they are safe and nothing bad happens to them during the protest. Though that sounds reasonably safe, I don't want my child to be caught in a protest where there was a chance that people with opposing views might also show up and things might escalate and my immature, naive, trusting, friendly and not-at-all-quick-thinking 11 year old was caught up in the middle of it.

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I would absolutely support it and be proud of my child. I think it is totally okay to skip class to protest and I am dismayed that people think it isn't. In most other countries there is strong support for protest: students go on strike and this is an accepted and respected action. IMO it is a very healthy thing.

 

You think it is fine for your 12 year old kid to walk right out of school during school hours and leave campus without parental notification?

 

It is fine for adults.  Not for children.  Not acceptable for them to just leave.

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Because protests can turn nasty easily if a few trouble makers showed up, I wouldn't want any of my minor kids (or even my young adult!) to be there without me.

 

It's too easy to get caught up in something that goes south if you don't recognize the signs that trouble is coming and leave,

 

I'd be angry with my kid for leaving campus without my permission. I'd be angry with the school if they didn't let me know about it.

 

I don't think the school should lock kids in, but they do need to let parents know that Jr. left campus and think that he's up the road protesting,.

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I would be very, very concerned if I found out that my middle schooler son was somewhere downtown in the middle of a large group (probably with little cash on him as this protest sounds unplanned) and I had no way of knowing if his safety was at risk. I live in a blue state where there are protests galore in schools in the past few days - news stations are reporting that teachers, staff and admins are walking along side the protesting students to ensure that they are safe and nothing bad happens to them during the protest. Though that sounds reasonably safe, I don't want my child to be caught in a protest where there was a chance that people with opposing views might also show up and things might escalate and my immature, naive, trusting, friendly and not-at-all-quick-thinking 11 year old was caught up in the middle of it.

This, exactly.

 

I would expect anyone with common sense to react this way. 

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Those who think the school should stop the kids from leaving--what actions should the school take?

 

Detention, failing grades on any missed assignments, and canceling school events (dances, sports games) if more than a certain percentage of students left.

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I'd want to see his pictures of the event and hear all about it.

 

My husband would be livid.

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  I think it is totally okay to skip class to protest and I am dismayed that people think it isn't. In most other countries there is strong support for protest: students go on strike and this is an accepted and respected action. IMO it is a very healthy thing.

 

I very much support the right to protest, but as I said upthread, there is a time and a place for it. There were plenty of chances to join a protest on the weekend when school was not in session.

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Detention, failing grades on any missed assignments, and canceling school events (dances, sports games) if more than a certain percentage of students left.

That doesn't stop the kids from walking out. Some people were saying they'd be upset at the school for not stopping them.

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My middle school had 30+ exits. (Every classroom! Plus all the hallways!). They absolutely discouraged walkouts, and clearly laid out the consequences of leaving, but there was no way to stop kids who were determined to do so. I don't see how you could.

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Walkouts from school and work are a normal part of protesting in Europe. 

It was also part of the protests in China in 1989. 

These students are admittedly young but otoh, if they're old enough to sing an anthem, they're old enough to show allegiance to something else as well. 

 

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You think it is fine for your 12 year old kid to walk right out of school during school hours and leave campus without parental notification?

 

It is fine for adults. Not for children. Not acceptable for them to just leave.

Well, I don't have a 12 year old or a child in middle school. I do have a principled child whom I encourage to stand up for and act upon his beliefs. If he were older and in school, I would make sure he had a phone and I would encourage him to use this phone to call me if he were going somewhere. But I would absolutely support his decision to leave school to protest, yes.

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And maybe those staying are staying in school just because a teacher told them to? 

 

Or they're staying in school just because a parent told them to?

 

They have no real clue what the role of the modern education system is. So is it really about learning? Or is it just being a lemming, learning to be a cog in an authoritarian regime, to submit to all authority? 

 

;)

 

It's about being a lemming!

LOL

 

I just think you can protest after school, on a day off, or on the weekend.  It might just be an excuse to get out of going to school above all else.

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So, curious...is this an actual thing? Are kids all over the country ditching school to protest right now? Honest question; I'm on a 4 year news break.

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I would absolutely support it and be proud of my child. I think it is totally okay to skip class to protest and I am dismayed that people think it isn't. In most other countries there is strong support for protest: students go on strike and this is an accepted and respected action. IMO it is a very healthy thing.

For me, it's not the actual act of protest that is the issue.  If the school had set up some sort of "protest field trip"  where notifications and permission slips were issued, provided guidance to my ELEVEN YR OLD (which is about 6th grade) as to what to look for, how to think out their opinion, what to do if someone starts throwing rocks or police get called...ALL of that sort of stuff....I would likely be for it.  I cant' say I would automatically support the school bussing my kids to a KKK rally or something.  But the biggest issue really is the idea of a school watching kids walk out, without notifying me at all what was going on ahead of time if possible, and in general "condoning" kids leaving. 

 

I have said before, I think people learn best by DOING.  I am totally ok with eleven year olds learning about the freedom we have to protest the actions of the government, the rights to peaceful assembly, etc etc.  DOING all that is great.  But a school having kids just up and walk out with no educational guidance or parental permission or notification....PROBLEM!

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Walkouts from school and work are a normal part of protesting in Europe. 

 

It was also part of the protests in China in 1989. 

 

These students are admittedly young but otoh, if they're old enough to sing an anthem, they're old enough to show allegiance to something else as well. 

 

 

 

They sing the anthem because they are told to.  They pledge allegiance to a piece of plastic made in China because they are brainwashed from early on to do so and aren't told they don't have to do it.

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I agree with those who feel the school was wrong to let them go, unless it was a situation where the school staff was unable to safely take measures to stop them, i.e., I don't expect the staff to put their lives on the line to stop my kid from leaving.

 

Protesting in a large group can be a dangerous activity, and kids that age shouldn't have the right to decide on their own to do that when the parents believe them to be under the supervision of the school.

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In our area it would be a non issue. Students cannot be released from campus without parental consent, and a field trip notice would have to be signed prior. So the child can ride the bus to and from home because it was specifically authorized with parental signature at the beginning of the year, but that doesn't apply to field trips which again take a signature. In order to have someone else pick up your child at school, you have to call in and then use your "password" with the school secretary so that it is okay for your child to go home with someone else. This doesn't apply at the high school level because so many students drive to school. It again takes a signed form for your child to walk home from school and that form does not apply to walking away from campus for any other purpose. 

 

If the school approved participation in a protest, it would still be considered a field trip and require parental signature. If unapproved and the student went without permission of parent, they would be considered truant and receive detention.

 

Spontaneity is not something our local schools do. So I would never have to deal with it.

 

Now that said, hypothetically, I consider a high school senior a far cry from a middle schooler in terms of maturity. So if my high schooler left campus without my permission to do something like this, I would be happy that he made that decision for himself. I would also, as training for adulthood, happily let him take his up and comings with the school. If that meant detention or getting a 0 in his classes for the day or whatever, so be it. That is what being an adult is all about when it comes to these kinds of choices. If I leave work early, I have to have this arranged ahead with my employer or face the music.

 

My middle schooler? Nope. I would be having words with the school. They need my permission ahead of time or if my kid was truant ie. not school sponsored, then the principal and I need to have a serious meeting about what to do with my 12 year old who thinks he/she should wander away from school. The 12 year old is not mature enough to make this choice, my 17/18 year old is. What I would not abide by was the middle school having a sponsored event like this behind my back. If they want to take my kid to something like this, and frankly some of these protests have not ended well, they need my permission to do so or leave my child back in a supervised environment if I don't give my assent.

 

For high schoolers taking a civics class, as long as this was optional with no consequence for choosing not to participate so my student was presented with a true choice in the matter, I'd have no issue and especially with juniors and seniors.

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So, curious...is this an actual thing? Are kids all over the country ditching school to protest right now? Honest question; I'm on a 4 year news break.

5000 students, mostly high schoolers but a handful of middle schoolers, walked out for various protests in Seattle yesterday. Some students rallied around their school buildings, others congregated in a central part of town. Seattle students were not alone, it happened in many places.

 

I'd rather my son protest with other kids than be alone at a protest with adults, some of whom in this area are not committed to non-violence.

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Well, I don't have a 12 year old or a child in middle school. I do have a principled child whom I encourage to stand up for and act upon his beliefs. If he were older and in school, I would make sure he had a phone and I would encourage him to use this phone to call me if he were going somewhere. But I would absolutely support his decision to leave school to protest, yes.

Ok, so then your answer to the question asked about a middle school child (age 11-13), is no, you don't want him to just walk out of school. 

 

Thought so. 

 

No one is talking about adults here, which is what I presume you mean by "if he were older". 

Edited by TranquilMind

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So, curious...is this an actual thing? Are kids all over the country ditching school to protest right now? Honest question; I'm on a 4 year news break.

 

I have not heard about this in my area.

 

I like the idea of a 4 year news break!

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I totally agree.  High schooler yes.  Middle schooler?  That's my 11 year old.  The same kid who is too shy to order food himself at a restaurant or who asks me to cut up his waffle for him.  No...no...no. 

 

In our area it would be a non issue. Students cannot be released from campus without parental consent, and a field trip notice would have to be signed prior. So the child can ride the bus to and from home because it was specifically authorized with parental signature at the beginning of the year, but that doesn't apply to field trips which again take a signature. In order to have someone else pick up your child at school, you have to call in and then use your "password" with the school secretary so that it is okay for your child to go home with someone else. This doesn't apply at the high school level because so many students drive to school. It again takes a signed form for your child to walk home from school and that form does not apply to walking away from campus for any other purpose. 

 

If the school approved participation in a protest, it would still be considered a field trip and require parental signature. If unapproved and the student went without permission of parent, they would be considered truant and receive detention.

 

Spontaneity is not something our local schools do. So I would never have to deal with it.

 

Now that said, hypothetically, I consider a high school senior a far cry from a middle schooler in terms of maturity. So if my high schooler left campus without my permission to do something like this, I would be happy that he made that decision for himself. I would also, as training for adulthood, happily let him take his up and comings with the school. If that meant detention or getting a 0 in his classes for the day or whatever, so be it. That is what being an adult is all about when it comes to these kinds of choices. If I leave work early, I have to have this arranged ahead with my employer or face the music.

 

My middle schooler? Nope. I would be having words with the school. They need my permission ahead of time or if my kid was truant ie. not school sponsored, then the principal and I need to have a serious meeting about what to do with my 12 year old who thinks he/she should wander away from school. The 12 year old is not mature enough to make this choice, my 17/18 year old is. What I would not abide by was the middle school having a sponsored event like this behind my back. If they want to take my kid to something like this, and frankly some of these protests have not ended well, they need my permission to do so or leave my child back in a supervised environment if I don't give my assent.

 

For high schoolers taking a civics class, as long as this was optional with no consequence for choosing not to participate so my student was presented with a true choice in the matter, I'd have no issue and especially with juniors and seniors.

 

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