Need Perspective On Music Practice

[SeaConquest]

My DS (age 7) is in his second year of taking guitar lessons. My husband thinks that if my son doesn't regularly practice of his own accord, we shouldn't bother to pay for lessons. I approach music like any other subject in our homeschool, and think that most kids need to be told to practice (at least, until they get good enough to really enjoy playing). I think my husband is being unrealistic to expect a 7 year old to self regulate enough to manage practicing regularly of his own accord. So, music peeps, what say thee?

Edited November 13, 2016 by SeaConquest

[IsabelC]

My 2c worth: I think you're both right, to an extent, but you're probably 'more right' ;)

If your kid absolutely hated practising the guitar altogether (ie he cried or had a tantrum every time you suggested it), I'd say you've given it a decent go and it might be time to let him change instruments. But if it's just that he won't practice regularly and well independent of you, or he sometimes complains because he doesn't feel like making the effort, or he's engaged in something fun he doesn't want to stop doing (always try to avoid that scenario)? In that case I'd say that is totally normal, as it would be very rare for a 7yo to consistently manage his own music practice. Even kids that age who really enjoy and look forward to their practice will usually work pretty inefficiently if the parents don't encourage better habits (eg it is common for them to repeatedly choose things they can already play for their 'practice', avoiding the things they find difficult, which are what they really need to work on; or they will play things randomly with no particular order or objective).

What we need to remember is that practising is its own distinct skill set, and your son is learning to practice music at the same time as he is learning skills in guitar playing. Expecting him to manage the practice with no support is like expecting him to master the guitar with no lessons: maybe a few kids could do it, but the majority need explicit teaching and lots of encouragement to get past the early frustration and into the 'auspicious circle' (practice well - play well - feel internal sense of mastery + receive external praise - be motivated to practice more).

If you are interested in a resource to help him learn more about how to practice (because teachers don't always spend much time on it, having so much other material to cover in the lesson), I can recommend Practiceopedia by Philip Johnston. I have found it useful for all my kids to dip into when they need suggestions or inspiration, including lots of ideas for what to do if you don't feel like practising!

Edited November 13, 2016 by IsabelC

[Alice]

All my kids have had to be reminded to practice, especially at that age. Two of my kids like piano but they are kids and don't remember on their own. My oldest is 13 and I'd say just in the past year has started to practice almost completely on his own. But that was after years of making it part of the daily routine for him.

 

I also had one kid who loathed practicing and made it into a battle. It became a big issue and we let him give up piano. The difference between him and the other kids was that for him it was always a batlle where the others it's more like "Hey, have you practiced piano today?" "No, I'll go do that now." 

[HomeAgain]

Both right.  My 6yo loves the violin.  But he's 6, and has a million things filling his brain.  We set aside a time each evening for practice that is regular and consistent so it becomes part of the routine - plus, we found it's easier for him to practice if he has an audience, so he comes into the kitchen with me. 

[Code Lyoko]

Agreed.  You are both right in a way but you are more right.

 

Most children need to be taught skill sets in a consistent manner, usually over a long period of time.  Learning how to play an instrument AND how to practice what you are learning consistently is no different than learning to use grammar and then practicing applying it consistently or learning how to spell or any other skill set.  Learning and practicing what you are learning to solidify the skill/knowledge takes time, sometimes years.  It also usually takes consistent outside scaffolding and encouragement for young children (and frequently even older kids and adults) to master not only the thing they are learning but the discipline to practice what they are learning in a consistent way.  That is how most human brains work.

 

Honestly most kids need to feel supported and I think it helps a lot if practice is valued by parents and is presented as a special skill beyond just learning the guitar.  Kids also frequently at that age do not want to practice in a vacuum.  They often need encouragement and interaction with others.  And if practice time is done as just part of the daily routine, at about the same time every day, with positive, gentle, encouraging reminders it is far more likely to develop into a life long skill set than if a child is expected to just learn this skill set on their own with no support.

 

Your husband, I feel, is very unrealistic in his expectation that a 7 year old should just spontaneously develop the discipline and executive function skills necessary to practice on his own.  That is not developmentally realistic at all, IMHO.  

 

However, if your child is in tears every time he has to practice, or he states regularly that he hates the guitar and no longer wants to learn to play it then perhaps it is time to put away the instrument until he is older and more mature and more motivated, or to switch instruments altogether.  Or to accept that maybe music is not his thing.  

 

Best wishes.

[fralala]

My DS (age 7) is in his second year of taking guitar lessons. My husband thinks that if my son doesn't regularly practice of his own accord, we shouldn't bother to pay for lessons. I approach music like any other subject in our homeschool, and think that most kids need to be told to practice (at least, until they get good enough to really enjoy playing). I think my husband is being unrealistic to expect a 7 year old to self regulate enough to manage practicing regularly of his own accord. So, music peeps, what say thee?

 

I liked your post because of this. I think you're right. Music is important, and I treat it this way, too.

 

But I can also understand your husband, because music lessons are expensive and it is hard to see your child complaining or seeming ungrateful for something you work hard to provide. It's hard to reconcile the kid who begged for lessons because they want to be able to play an instrument with the kid who resents that there is a process to getting there...

[KrissiK]

Well, if he's an average kid with average talent, you will probably have to remind him, and even make sure he is practicing his lessons and not goofing off. This is the way it is with my kids and piano. My nephew, OTOH practices his violin 2-3 hours a day on his own iniative. But, he's very good, he plays in orchestras, is in competitions, etc. I think it just depends on the kid and their skill level and desires.

[Arcadia]

Is it on his chore list? I won't expect a 7 year old to remember. I think that could be one of the reason school band starts in 3rd/4th grade.

My kids enjoy musical instruments but practice is still very much a chore that needs to get done. Honestly, if they could dictate their practice pieces, I would be hearing Star Wars week after week. Instead they practice classical and folk pieces.

Yesterday we went to a free ukulele introduction at guitar center. The staff said the steel strings of the guitar has made their adults customers put aside guitar and pickup ukulele. My oldest had blisters on his finger tips after 30mins and swelling on his left wrist, while my youngest fingers and wrist were okay. So different sensitivity. My oldest prefers strings so now we are down to a lap harp (plucking) or a yanqin (striking the strings) as feasible choices.

 

If a child is used to practicing at a certain time every day since he/she is 3/4 (Suzuki), then by 7 years old it does become ingrained. It is like my public school relatives going to school, they are automatic in their morning routine. It is not the age, it is the years of routine. I started piano at 4 but my afterschool practice time varies while my school band time is fixed. My horn gets more consistent practice from me then my piano while I was in elementary school.

[Ellie]

My DS (age 7) is in his second year of taking guitar lessons. My husband thinks that if my son doesn't regularly practice of his own accord, we shouldn't bother to pay for lessons. I approach music like any other subject in our homeschool, and think that most kids need to be told to practice (at least, until they get good enough to really enjoy playing). I think my husband is being unrealistic to expect a 7 year old to self regulate enough to manage practicing regularly of his own accord. So, music peeps, what say thee?

 

I don't think it's realistic to expect a 7yo person to self-regulate. I think it's up to you to make sure he has practice time, which may or may not be the same thing as being told to practice, IYKWIM.

[kalusignan]

I highly recommend this article for music parents: http://www.maestroclassics.com/blog/music-practice-with-children-a-parents-guide

 

I would also talk to your dc about his goals, write them down, and work together to achieve them. Maybe start a 100 day challenge? Above all stay positive, have fun, and encouragement enjoyment of music. 

[Bluegoat]

Yup, I agree with the others.  At his age, he'll need to be reminded, probably directed in how to practice, and sometimes made to practice.

 

It's interesting that people seem to think that with music, desire needs to be totally internal even in young kids.  No one expects that about writing or math, even for kids that might eventually grow up to be writers or accountants.

 

I feel like a lot of parents of my generation of kids took te view that music practice was something kids had to take care of themselves - my parents certainly did.  The result was many kids couldn't get far enough to become competent and dropped music as boring or too hard.  It's something as an adult I really regret.

 

That being said, if he really hates it actively, or is really struggling, it might just not be his thing.

 

 

[smily]

I have 2 Suzuki violinists. They have to be told to practice, and are happy to do it.

 

The other posters are right; you're both right

[IsabelC]

I highly recommend this article for music parents: http://www.maestroclassics.com/blog/music-practice-with-children-a-parents-guide

 

I would also talk to your dc about his goals, write them down, and work together to achieve them. Maybe start a 100 day challenge? Above all stay positive, have fun, and encouragement enjoyment of music. 

 

The article makes some great points, but I thought this bit seems a bit negative:

The unfortunate truth is that no one likes to practice! And the only thing worse than practicing oneself is practicing with one’s child.

 

 

Sometimes practice can be tedious and tiring, but it can be fun and satisfying too. And although there can be some disagreements and frustration, I personally have a lot of fun practising with my kids, whether I'm accompanying, grabbing another instrument to play along, or just listening and giving feedback. Either working hard or occasionally just playing something together for the fun of it (you would not want to hear us massacring my arrangement of Pachelbel for piano, violin, trombone and clarinet). I hope we'll still do plenty of jamming even when the kids are grown up and don't want me interfering with their practice! 

Edited November 13, 2016 by IsabelC

[wintermom]

I highly recommend this article for music parents: http://www.maestroclassics.com/blog/music-practice-with-children-a-parents-guide

 

 

 

Reminding a young child to practice is just the start. It takes a LOT of time and maturity to learn how to practice effectively, as well. 

 

I agree with this article, about parents being present both in the music lesson and in the practicing.  I've been doing this for 7 years with my 2 Suzuki violin kids and 2 Suzuki guitar kids, and it's very effective. I write detailed notes, take photos and video during their lessons, and then I can help them much better in their practicing as I know what the teacher is working on with them. My 16 and 14 year old dc do their practicing on their own, now, but I'm still present to listen to my 10 and 12 year olds practicing. It makes a HUGE difference in their weekly progress, and the teacher really notices if I've missed doing this.

 

Prior to that, 3 of my dc took piano lessons in the more traditional format, where I was not present during the lesson. It was much harder for me to help my dc in their practicing as I didn't know what the teacher had been telling them. The notes the teacher made just didn't give enough detail. Their progress was much slower. They also got frustrated in their lack of progress, which made them even less motivated to practice.

[IsabelC]

 

I feel like a lot of parents of my generation of kids took the view that music practice was something kids had to take care of themselves - my parents certainly did.  The result was many kids couldn't get far enough to become competent and dropped music as boring or too hard.  It's something as an adult I really regret.

 

 

 

That is exactly why I am a little bit pushy when it comes to music.  I have heard so many adults of all ages and all walks of life saying variations of "Oh, I did a bit of piano [or other instrument] as a kid. I really wish I'd kept it up,"  whereas I have never yet met even one person who is a competent musician and regrets learning.

 

 

I write detailed notes, take photos and video during their lessons, and then I can help them much better in their practicing as I know what the teacher is working on with them.

 

 

Ha! I thought I was the only person who took pictures at music lesson ;)

Edited November 13, 2016 by IsabelC

[LMD]

I do have to remind and scaffold practices.

They like to play, but being able to push through frustration and the discipline to continue through tedium requires maturity that my 6 & 9 & 11 year old don't yet have!

I agree with you!

[MasaMama]

I had the same discussion with DH, last year. I also thought he was expecting too much. 

 

I do have to remind DS to practice his percussion. He enjoys the lessons and even practicing, but he just forgets because he has tons of other stuff like Minecraft to think about. 

 

On the other hand, he doesn't like practicing the piano so much. (He loves taking piano lessons, though). So, I told him if he wants to watch a TV show during lunch time, he has to be done with practicing the piano by then. Now, he doesn't complain and just starts practicing on his own when I start making lunch. Before this, I had to remind him so many times to practice, so I'm enjoying this. 

 

I also bribe him :-) He gets a point for each music practice and yoga. He then can exchange the points with computer or Kindle time. So, when he wants to play on Kindle but doesn't have any point saved up, he all sudden remembers to practice or do yoga. His practice is about 10 to 15 minutes and for that he gets to have screen time 30 minutes to 1 hour. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by MasaMama

[Dmmetler]

Even for my 11 yr old, practice is an assignment on her daily agenda, just like math or English.

[maize]

My DS (age 7) is in his second year of taking guitar lessons. My husband thinks that if my son doesn't regularly practice of his own accord, we shouldn't bother to pay for lessons. I approach music like any other subject in our homeschool, and think that most kids need to be told to practice (at least, until they get good enough to really enjoy playing). I think my husband is being unrealistic to expect a 7 year old to self regulate enough to manage practicing regularly of his own accord. So, music peeps, what say thee?

I've talked about this issue with the manager of a highly successful youth music program--the kind that draws in the elite among young musicians. She told me that even those kids need to be reminded to practice. These are kids who love music and are highly successful with it, but for most of them there is still a parent actively encouraging, reminding, and facilitating.

[zaichiki]

Does it help to know that even many of the most talented musical kids in the world need to be reminded to practice (and supervised in the *way* they practice)???

 

My dd LOVES music.  It leaks out of her constantly.  She's studied viola since she was 3 and I sat with her while she practiced until she was about 12. She and many of her friends at an internationally renowned pre-college program needed guidance (and certainly reminders) with practicing for much of their young childhood -- and these are the kids who have passion, drive, and non-typical focus and talent. (I know this because we parents seek camaraderie, advice, and emotional support: we talk to each other.)

 

Now at 14, dd tells me (and has shared with other parents) that the hardest part of practicing is just getting started.  And it's hard every day. (But she's happy once she *has* started and will work hard.)

 

One of my son's cello teachers from years ago (a phenomenally-talented professional performing cellist and an extremely talented teacher) once said that on days she doesn't want to practice (!!!) she tells herself she'll only do 10 minutes and then MAKES herself.  She did say that 10 minutes often mutates into a much longer practice session once she's started.

[zaichiki]

 

 

Ha! I thought I was the only person who took pictures at music lesson ;)

 

My dd audio-records her private lessons (with the permission of her teachers) and takes notes afterwards.

This has a huge, huge impact on her practice.

[...................]

Well all I can say is, good luck.  I paid over 9000.00 and struggled through three years of piano lessons and practice with my daughter.  Although she had some high points, and a good bit of intelligence and maybe a tiny bit of talent, she hated practicing.  In the end, she quit.  Now she does guitar of her own accord, because she loves her new teacher.  She is 13 and it's her thing, not mine and it's working.  

 

Is it working for the purpose of passing music exams, impressing the masses or comparing with the kids around here who excel at piano?  NO.  But is it working for her to enjoy music, entertain her family a bit and increase her well roundedness?  Yes.

 

So, I don't know what to tell you except that I will say this:  Piano is very hard the first year.  It's very fun the second year, as fun as it'll ever be.  The third year, whether it is fun or not is up to the teacher and the kid...whether the kid likes it and whether hte teacher and kid have a good relationship.  So I do think you should stick whatever instrument you try, for one year or a little more.  At that point they pass the threshold where they can actually play whole songs that sound good. If at that point, they still complain all the time and have no interest, I would consider dropping it.  

 

 

[idnib]

I say it would be very unusual for a 7yo to remember to practice without reminders. But reminders are different than arguing. If he's very reluctant or whining, or you're having to cajole him, maybe it's time for a rest.

 

Doe he get any payoff? My son started taking over his own practices in large part because he enjoys playing with others and performing. We also made it a condition of attending summer music camp that he would practice without (too much) complaint.

[...................]

Also he is SO young. I would not even use the word "quit" or "drop"

But just say "try other things" or "put it aside". I would keep it very positive becuse he really is quite young.

[Bluegoat]

I say it would be very unusual for a 7yo to remember to practice without reminders. But reminders are different than arguing. If he's very reluctant or whining, or you're having to cajole him, maybe it's time for a rest.

 

Doe he get any payoff? My son started taking over his own practices in large part because he enjoys playing with others and performing. We also made it a condition of attending summer music camp that he would practice without (too much) complaint.

 

I've found being able to play with oters, or at least have interactions with them, is a huge motivator for my kids with music lessons.  I think that playing alone is just limited in how satisfying it is for a lot of people.  Which makes sense, most of the music people listen to and make is involving collaborations of some kind.

 

But for a lot of little kids, it is a solitary activity, and that's all they see of it.  The possibility of playing with others is so far away as to seem impossible.

[HomeAgain]

Well all I can say is, good luck.  I paid over 9000.00 and struggled through three years of piano lessons and practice with my daughter.  Although she had some high points, and a good bit of intelligence and maybe a tiny bit of talent, she hated practicing.  In the end, she quit.  Now she does guitar of her own accord, because she loves her new teacher.  She is 13 and it's her thing, not mine and it's working.  

 

 

I forced my oldest to continue piano when he had no interest.  He stopped after a few years and never went back. I can honestly say that wouldn't be tolerated by my youngest son's music teacher.  The two of them talked before he even started, and his teacher let him know that it's okay not to like the violin, even if you're good at it.  It's fine.  If the 6yo ever got to that point he was to let his teacher know immediately and all lessons would stop until he was ready to start again (if ever).  I think having that out has given him room to breathe, enough room to like it without it being a chore.   

[SKL]

I agree with you - it's an important skill for both academics and life.  I would tell him to practice and not leave it up to him at this age.

 

My kids at that age were told to practice.  One of them wasn't super compliant, but that wasn't enough reason to drop lessons in my opinion.  Eventually I did drop them for several reasons, but I still asked my kids to play to keep up their skills, until they switched to school band instruments.  (They still play for fun sometimes.)

[SKL]

I wanted to add - if your kid is like me, he might actually practice more if you drop lessons.  I think I am weird though.  :P  I used to play piano for an hour a day for my own amusement, having taught myself.  At 13 I decided to use my paper route money to buy some lessons.  My interest in practicing fizzled and died.  After I quit the lessons, I started really playing again.

 

So if your son seems reluctant (vs. just forgetful), maybe try giving it a break over the holidays and see if he practices *more.*  If so, maybe let him learn independently if he can.

[MasaMama]

I've found being able to play with oters, or at least have interactions with them, is a huge motivator for my kids with music lessons.  I think that playing alone is just limited in how satisfying it is for a lot of people.  Which makes sense, most of the music people listen to and make is involving collaborations of some kind.

 

But for a lot of little kids, it is a solitary activity, and that's all they see of it.  The possibility of playing with others is so far away as to seem impossible.

 

We belong to a homeschool volunteer group and we've gone to a nursing home to play games and play the piano for the residents twice now. It's been great for DS. He would carefully chose songs that sound the best and practice them. He got to hear other kids play the piano there which was so different from piano recital. Piano for fun and entertaining... He also got to see the elderly really enjoy the kids playing the piano, singing along and clapping to the music. So, I'm really grateful for the experience. 

[Guest]

I make my kids practice daily just like we do every other school subject - by make, I mean I block out time and tell them to do it next, when it fits around our subjects. They enjoy their instrument time but wouldn't necessarily do it in lieu of art or playing or a movie. Even as an adult I benefit from a daily routine/schedule, and this is part of theirs just like bible study and math.

 

I don't know any kids who voluntarily practice enough, the closest I've found in the grade school set is my oldest daughter, and she is unusually adept and involved in her instrument to the point of drawing notice. Most other kids are like my other daughter, who plays well and enjoys it, but benefits from structure and reminders to help her practice time be as well utilized and smooth as possible.

[Bluegoat]

I think it's important to think about why your child is taking lessons.

 

For us, I consider music a homeschool subject.  So, my older girls took a class for kids when they were younger and were in the church choir.  As they've become older they have had piano and other types of lessons.  My son hasn't done lessons yet as I didn't think he was ready to benefit at the same age, but he did join the choir.  And he will have some kind of music lessons.

 

What I want is for them to have, at the least, is some basic music theory, the ability to enjoy it intelligently, and the ability to enjoy making music.  A secondary consideration is actually learning to practice, but that could be done some other way.

 

But if I had a child really struggling with an instrument, or really just hating it in every way, I could cut music back to basics that I see as necessary for school.  We'd probably do choir, and music appreciation/history.  I might build in a little theory, but the class my girls took as kids is probably more than a lot of people ever get anyway, and they get some theory in choir, so I might not bother.  (Changing instruments might be another possibility.)  and these things could be suspended for a time too, maybe even until the child was a fair bit older.

[idnib]

Personal stories don't help much in this regard, I've found. You'll find an equal number of people who say they quit because they were pushed and who are glad their parents kept pushing. Only you know your kid.

 

But if he does enjoy it more or less, and the only complaint is that you have to remind him vs him doing it on his own? Yeah, he's 7.

[Angie in VA]

*Leaving a footprint to find that article again. 

 

ITA w/ all posters who say you're both right and that he's too young to remember to practice on his own. 

 

 

 

[wintermom]

I've found being able to play with others, or at least have interactions with them, is a huge motivator for my kids with music lessons.  I think that playing alone is just limited in how satisfying it is for a lot of people.  Which makes sense, most of the music people listen to and make is involving collaborations of some kind.

 

But for a lot of little kids, it is a solitary activity, and that's all they see of it.  The possibility of playing with others is so far away as to seem impossible.

 

YES!! This is very true for my dc and myself. It's so much fun to play music with others. It's very motivating, and you learn a lot of different things playing in ensembles with others. When playing with a group, there is a built-in accountability to others to keep practicing so that you can play the songs and not hold back the group. There is also a lot less pressure on one individual to play completely error-free.

 

For the OP, guitar is a wonderful ensemble instrument. There are usually a lot more opportunities to play with groups even at beginner levels, as opposed to piano, for example.

[SeaConquest]

I just wanted to thank you all for your advice and experience. My husband and I had a chance to talk it over, and you all were very influential in our discussion. :) We decided to require my DS to practice before having access to electronics. I suppose that this should have been a given, but we were lax on enforcement. No longer!

 

To clarify, my son enjoys playing guitar, and doesn't mind practicing. He is just 7, and will forget about practicing if he is playing outside or with his electronics. Annoyed by this fact, my husband decided that, if my DS forgot to practice more than 20% of the time, we would stop paying for lessons. This is where I stepped in, and told my husband that he was being unrealistic -- hence my OP.

 

Practice has increased since more strictly enforcing this policy, but I appreciate all the insight that you have given to my husband and I. We will definitely be enrolling my son in a summer rock band camp, so that he also gets the chance to play with others, and I will start paying more attention to his lessons and practices. Thank you all again!  

 

 

[laundrycrisis]

I still have to make 13 yo DS1 put in his practice time on the violin, even when he doesn't feel like it.  He loves the instrument though, and he loves what he is accomplishing and enjoys the opportunities he gets to perform.  At those times he thanks me for making him practice.  His teacher tells him, "thank your mom for making you practice."   IMO it's pretty normal.  He doesn't yet have the discipline to make himself practice when he doesn't feel like it.  But he wouldn't be happy if he lost ground with his playing.  

[Harriet Vane]

Husband is absolutely, totally unrealistic.

 

A dear friend is a piano instructor, and she agrees with you.

 

My ds is musically gifted and achieved an advanced level in classical guitar. He enjoys music a great deal. He's also a go-getter academically and in other areas. He was absolutely undisciplined about music at 7yo despite his love of it and yes, he needed my coaching and reminding.

 

A look at rudimentary child psychology would also show your husband's expectations to be developmentally inappropriate.

 

I would not expect a kid to choose to be disciplined about music practice until the teen years.