What to say for college interviews if one pulls out of high school mid year or end of year to homeschool?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thinking of pulling son out of high school either mid year or end of year-not sure yet. What does one say to college interviewers about this. We would be pulling him due to excessive work load and excessively long school day at current school coupled with health issues (frequent bouts of bronchitis). I also feel like remaining in this school robs him of any free time to explore his interests and his childhood. But I am not sure if a prospective college needs to know all of this.

 

Any thoughts?

[regentrude]

I would answer truthfully: health issues. 'Nuff said.

I would obviously refrain from complaining about the work load, because that would immediately raise the question whether the student is capable of a college work load.

If the health issues aren't severe enough that the student feels comfortable to offer this as sole explanation, I would talk about the freedom to choose curriculum and explore areas of interest. Which is true, too.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by regentrude

[EKS]

What grade is your son in?

 

My older son was homeschooled for 9th and then half of 10th.  He then went to a private high school for the rest of 10th.  For 11th he continued at the private school in their IB Diploma Program (so, prestigious, demanding, and not something you really should be quitting if you want to impress anyone!).  We pulled him after the first semester to homeschool.  We homeschooled for a quarter and then he did DE as a homeschooler at the local community college.

 

I don't know what he said about it at the one college interview he did, but I did talk about it in my counselor letter.  I simply told the truth, that my son needed more STEM opportunities than his small private school offered and because of the workload the IB program required, he was unable to even pursue STEM stuff outside of school.  Then I said specifically what he did STEMwise after leaving the school (took several courses at the college, got a job at an engineering company, etc).  It helped that he was applying exclusively to engineering colleges.  He got in everywhere he applied (except one school where he was waitlisted).

 

 

 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

He is in 9th grade. I do want him to be able to explore his interests more which he has very limited time to do so now:( I am unsure if he will do college courses though which look impressive but we will definitely do AP courses and some online courses. I looked at Maryland University but it is pricey since we are not residents. There are several community colleges in the tri-state area where he could take some classes but I worry whether they will actually be rigorous due to open admisssions and the influence of potential classmates (please forgive me here).

 

I guess I worry that he will be seen as a quitter when in fact he is a very hard worker and I am unsure whether to mention the health issues since I am afraid some will see that negatively too:(

[MysteryJen]

I am pretty sure you are overthinking a little. It would be an extremely thorough and rare college interview that cared deeply about 9th grade. "Health issues" is a complete and sufficient answer. 

My ds1 had 3 scholarship interviews and no one asked him why he homeschooled, only about his academic interests and extracurricular experiences. 

[regentrude]

He is in 9th grade. I do want him to be able to explore his interests more which he has very limited time to do so now:( I am unsure if he will do college courses though which look impressive but we will definitely do AP courses and some online courses. I looked at Maryland University but it is pricey since we are not residents. There are several community colleges in the tri-state area where he could take some classes but I worry whether they will actually be rigorous due to open admisssions and the influence of potential classmates (please forgive me here).

 

I guess I worry that he will be seen as a quitter when in fact he is a very hard worker and I am unsure whether to mention the health issues since I am afraid some will see that negatively too:(

 

then address it in the counselor letter:

"After starting high school at xyz school, we decided that homeschooling was the better educational choice for DS. It allowed him to pursue his special interests in xyz and challenge himself through dual enrollment/AP/whatever ."

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am pretty sure you are overthinking a little. It would be an extremely thorough and rare college interview that cared deeply about 9th grade. "Health issues" is a complete and sufficient answer. 

My ds1 had 3 scholarship interviews and no one asked him why he homeschooled, only about his academic interests and extracurricular experiences. 

In can see your point but the transcripts from this school would be used since he has already acquired high school credit for Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 and one year Pre-Calculus as well as high school Economics and AP World History with score of 4 prior to 9th grade. So this schools records would be in the mix.

 

Wanted to add that I do tend to overthink and hope that I am just doing that:)

Edited October 31, 2016 by NoPlaceLikeHome

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

then address it in the counselor letter:

"After starting high school at xyz school, we decided that homeschooling was the better educational choice for DS. It allowed him to pursue his special interests in xyz and challenge himself through dual enrollment/AP/whatever ."

I like that wording of pursuing his interests. Does it matter that it is his 5th year at this school with multiple highschool credits already obtained prior to 9th? Perhaps that makes it better?

[Lanny]

I would answer truthfully: health issues. 'Nuff said.

I would obviously refrain from complaining about the work load, because that would immediately raise the question whether the student is capable of a college work load.

If the health issues aren't severe enough that the student feels comfortable to offer this as sole explanation, I would talk about the freedom to choose curriculum and explore areas of interest. Which is true, too.

 

regentrude nailed this.  The workload in a university, for undergraduate students, should be assumed to be at least twice what their workload in High School was.

 

This is the  natural progression of workload. From Middle School to High School and then to university. It doesn't get easier, it gets harder... 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

regentrude nailed this.  The workload in a university, for undergraduate students, should be assumed to be at least twice what their workload in High School was.

 

This is the  natural progression of workload. From Middle School to High School and then to university. It doesn't get easier, it gets harder... 

I agree with this generally but I honestly think college will be easier than this school since he will have less actual class time and more time for homework and hopefully free time. His school goes from 845 am till 4pm daily with no study halls and piles on the homework since it is an AP test factory starting in 5th grade:(

 

You are correct though that he should not disparage the work load at his current school since that sounds negative. I still worry that mentioning health reasons will be seen as a negative too which makes me want him to emphasize time for exploring his interests. Hopefully it does not matter that this exploration is not top of the line stuff though:)

Edited October 31, 2016 by NoPlaceLikeHome

[regentrude]

I agree with this generally but I honestly think college will be easier than this school since he will have less actual class time and more time for homework and hopefully free time. His school goes from 845 am till 4pm daily with no study halls and piles on the homework since it is an AP test factory starting in 5th grade:(

 

I just want to comment on this, because I see in advising that the most common cause for student underperformance is that they have unrealistic expectations of the work load involved.

You can certainly find colleges that are easier than this school, but the differences in level are very big.  As a rule of thumb, we advise students to expect to work two hours outside of class for every hour in class at our solid, but not selective, public STEM uni; a standard course load of 16 hours in class translates easily into a 48 hour work week, possibly more.  At the upper end of the spectrum are colleges where students work ALL the time and there is no "free time" except, if you are lucky, for sleep. My DD's physics homework set last week took 17 hours to complete; the class genius needed only ten hours. Just something to keep in mind for perspective.

Edited October 31, 2016 by regentrude

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I just want to comment on this, because I see in advising that the most common cause for student underperformance is that they have unrealistic expectations of the work load involved.

You can certainly find colleges that are easier than this school, but the differences in level are very big.  As a rule of thumb, we advise students to expect to work two hours outside of class for every hour in class at our solid, but not selective, public STEM uni; a standard course load of 16 hours in class translates easily into a 48 hour work week, possibly more.  At the upper end of the spectrum are colleges where students work ALL the time and there is no "free time" except, if you are lucky, for sleep. My DD's physics homework set last week took 17 hours to complete; the class genius needed only ten hours. Just something to keep in mind for perspective.

I see your point but I am still thinking the fewer hours in class will help make a difference. He already spends 3-4 hours a night and at least 10-14 hours on the weekend with homework but is in school all day. Perhaps my memory of college is faint since it has been 30 years and I majored in nursing which was difficult but I am sure is not as difficult as other majors. What is the average time spent in actual class time in college? 

[regentrude]

 What is the average time spent in actual class time in college? 

 

Typically, 128 hours are required for a degree. A student who wants to graduate in 4 years needs to take 16 hours per semester. That does translate into 16 hours in class except for lab classes, which usually require many more hours in lab than the lab is worth credit hours, and performing arts majors (very few credits for extremely time consuming classes).

 

Students with double majors typically take 18-20 credit hours. At our school, anything above that requires special permission.

Edited October 31, 2016 by regentrude

[Lanny]

I agree with this generally but I honestly think college will be easier than this school since he will have less actual class time and more time for homework and hopefully free time. His school goes from 845 am till 4pm daily with no study halls and piles on the homework since it is an AP test factory starting in 5th grade:(

 

You are correct though that he should not disparage the work load at his current school since that sounds negative. I still worry that mentioning health reasons will be seen as a negative too which makes me want him to emphasize time for exploring his interests. Hopefully it does not matter that this exploration is not top of the line stuff though:)

 

Gently...  In Black & White, you cannot hear the "tone" or the volume of my voice.  If we were sitting in the same room and discussing this, I believe you would take my suggestions as well meant and possibly helpful to you and your DS. I hope that is the case in Black & White.  Free advice is often worth what one pays for it, however, sometimes, it is priceless. I hope that you will consider my comments to be helpful to your DS.

 

If you think, or believe,  that "college will be easier than this school"  I strongly  believe that you should be looking at much  better universities, where far more will be required of your DS. There is less time in class, but there is a LOT of work required out of class.  He will need a *lot* of Time Management skills and he will need a lot of self-discipline, in any challenging university. 

 

I am  "playing devils advocate" with you, I am trying to get you and your DS to understand what will be required of him, if he goes to a good university.

 

I know the workload my DD has (she is in 10th grade now) requires a lot more than was required of her when she was in Middle School and I believe that your DS  should know and understand that it doesn't get easier, it gets harder and harder, as one progresses in the educational system and then when one is employed and expected and required to be productive..

 

My DD will  need to work 20 hours a week when she is attending university. We have discussed that with one university.  Add that to class time and studying and I don't think she will have much "free time" that you are hoping your DS will have while attending university.  

 

I admire (and am amazed) when I read about people who are top students in the College of Engineering and are involved in Football or Basketball or something like that. When, if ever, do they sleep?

 

If your DS is getting good grades in the school he is attending at this time, I think he should continue there, if his medical problems permit.   GL to him!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Typically, 128 hours are required for a degree. A student who wants to graduate in 4 years needs to take 16 hours per semester. That does translate into 16 hours in class except for lab classes, which usually require many more hours in lab than the lab is worth credit hours, and performing arts majors (very few credits for extremely time consuming classes).

 

Students with double majors typically take 18-20 credit hours. At our school, anything above that requires special permission.

Do you mean 128 hours a week or 128 credits to graduate? I recall labs of 3 to 4 hours a week, is that about right? I guess my reasoning is that he spends over 6 hours a day in classes and then another 3 to 4 hours a night and 10- to 14 hours on the weekend for a total of 60 to 70 hours a week on his current school which makes me nuts:( I do think he is prepared for the rigor of college but at the rate he is going since 5th grade I think he will be burned out:(

 

I really believe if he had less class time it would be easier. OTOH I have read threads here where homeschool kids have very little free time too!

[regentrude]

Do you mean 128 hours a week or 128 credits to graduate? I recall labs of 3 to 4 hours a week, is that about right? I guess my reasoning is that he spends over 6 hours a day in classes and then another 3 to 4 hours a night and 10- to 14 hours on the weekend for a total of 60 to 70 hours a week on his current school which makes me nuts:( I do think he is prepared for the rigor of college but at the rate he is going since 5th grade I think he will be burned out:(

 

128 credit hours to graduate. That is 16 hours of class per week.

 

Labs depend on subject and class. Some are 2 hours, some can be 4-6 hours. 

(Of course, students involved in undergraduate research put in additional time.)

 

I'd estimate at least 60-70 hours of work per week for a good student with a demanding major at a top school.

I'd expect our students at a public U to put in at least 50 hours on average if they want to succeed, i.e. pass.

 

ETA: But I completely agree that I see no reason to make a high school student carry such a work load.

Edited October 31, 2016 by regentrude

[MysteryJen]

My dd1 swims at a d1 school and is taking 16 hours. She goes to practice, drylands, weights, team meetings, and travel and other team obligations. It adds up to a serious amount of hours. She studies every available hour. What she doesn't do is any clubs, social gatherings or parties unless they are required by the team. Sleep is critical to athletic and academic performance so that is a priority. It is rough. But she ramped up through high school. 9th grade should be the beginning of the ramp up. 14 hour days were common in 9th.

 

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[Clemsondana]

When I was in college in a science major, my usual routine was classes in the morning, lunch back in my room with maybe a short break, then labs 2-3 afternoons a week, for 3-4 hours each. I was also in the marching and concert bands, which fulfilled some humanities credits and were a fantastic experience, but that committed me to practice from 4-6 3-4 days each week. I would eat dinner and chill for a bit, and then study until bedtime most nights during the week. This actually wasn't that different from my routine in high school in some ways. The biggest difference was that everything that we did was important - there wasn't any busywork. I sometimes warn my high school students that there is some 'fluff' built into most high school classes - assignments that serve a purpose, but also help their grades. College didn't have any of that, so all 50 or 80 minutes of class were filled with content that needed to be understood. Labs weren't fun - you were graded in part based on whether you recovered the amount of chemical that your calculations said that you should. Many of my classes didn't assign and check homework or projects.- your grade was 2-6 test grades averaged together. You never felt like you were 'done' becuase you knew that you didn't know everything well enough to apply it to whatever problem you were asked about on the tests (this was great prep for lab work and grad school, but unpleasant at the time). For engineers, it was different. They worked lots of problem sets. If you were fast and understood problems for a particular class, you might have spare time that semester; there seemed to be good and bad semesters for most students.

 

This is not to say that having that sort of schedule in high school is for the best. My kids are younger, but one of my motivations for homeschooling is that we can learn more in less time, leaving time free for other pursuits. For many students, homeschooling can be the most efficient use of time, and I think that college admissions people would understand the idea that a student could work more efficiently at home so that they'd have more time for other pursuits.

[Lanny]

@NoPlaceLikeHome  There are at least 2 recent (2015 or 2016) threads on WTM about High School students spending lots of hours studying. One of the threads was begun by another WTM Father, concerned about the workload his DC had.  At that time, my DD was in 9th grade and had gotten  very bogged down, by the increase in workload (Which I contributed to, by suggesting she take 7 courses).

 

The "bottom line" of those threads as I recall seemed to be that this is  very common* and that we need to let our DC know that they are not alone, trying to manage a heavy workload.  

 

My DD now spends time exercising, 4 or 5 days a week. I believe exercise helps with the stress and helps one to think more clearly.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

@NoPlaceLikeHome  There are at least 2 recent (2015 or 2016) threads on WTM about High School students spending lots of hours studying. One of the threads was begun by another WTM Father, concerned about the workload his DC had.  At that time, my DD was in 9th grade and had gotten  very bogged down, by the increase in workload (Which I contributed to, by suggesting she take 7 courses).

 

The "bottom line" of those threads as I recall seemed to be that this is  very common* and that we need to let our DC know that they are not alone, trying to manage a heavy workload.  

 

My DD now spends time exercising, 4 or 5 days a week. I believe exercise helps with the stress and helps one to think more clearly.

I totally agree on the exercise thing but we are having a hard time squeezing it in due to the long school day and tons of homework. I have been walking him to school most days but that is only a 35 minute walk and he has no gym class. I really think he needs more exercise to help with focusing and stress. It is one of the reasons I am thinking of homeschooling.

 

I did read Dereksurfs thread on his ds spending too much time with school work even though homeschooling which gives me pause. I also get the ramping up part for high school but his school has been ramped up since 5th grade really with his having completed 6 high school classes before high school and one of the being an AP class. It is that nationally known charter whose schools make the top ten lists and it does so by being an AP test factory and excessive acceleration IMHO. Unfortunately this school is really are only option that is acceptable here besides homeschooling.

 

As for high school and college work loads I think that is an interesting discussion on having realistic expectations. I may start another thread on that:)

[Lanny]

I totally agree on the exercise thing but we are having a hard time squeezing it in due to the long school day and tons of homework. I have been walking him to school most days but that is only a 35 minute walk and he has no gym class. I really think he needs more exercise to help with focusing and stress. It is one of the reasons I am thinking of homeschooling.

 

I did read Dereksurfs thread on his ds spending too much time with school work even though homeschooling which gives me pause. I also get the ramping up part for high school but his school has been ramped up since 5th grade really with his having completed 6 high school classes before high school and one of the being an AP class. It is that nationally known charter whose schools make the top ten lists and it does so by being an AP test factory and excessive acceleration IMHO. Unfortunately this school is really are only option that is acceptable here besides homeschooling.

 

As for high school and college work loads I think that is an interesting discussion on having realistic expectations. I may start another thread on that:)

 

DD goes into the Living Room and she pulls the Stair Stepper in front of the TV there. Watching a program, she exercises. She does that before or after 12 Noon.  I think that really gives her physical health and her mental health a break, during the day while she is studying. You describe the classes that your DS is taking and that there is no gym class. That, to me, is a tragedy. I believe it is very common now.  I went to Public Schools in CA and when I was in Middle School and in High School, we had mandatory Phys. Ed. classes, 5 days a week.  Looking back, I believe that is why when I went to take the Army Physical and Written tests, I was told I was "fully qualified to be a paratrooper".  That scared me, since I was interested in an Intelligence branch of the Army, so I didn't join the U.S. Army...   I believe that a good part of my good health at this time is because of those Phys.Ed. classes in Middle School and High School.  Also, years ago, where we lived before, and when we had a lot more income, my wife and I attended an excellent gym, run by a world famous trainer of Soccer Professionals.  I could not believe how many incredibly busy and important people were there, to attend a 530 or 6 A.M. gym class, before they went to their offices. Also, About 6 P.M. it was jammed again. Those people learned that taking some time out of their very busy work day, and devoting it to exercise, made them not only healthier, but it made them more productive.

 

With regard to the workloads of High School students now, I was surprised that my DD was not the only one who was working long hard hours and bogged down and that so many other WTM parents had DC who were also devoting so many hours to studying.

 

If your DS can stay in the school he's in now, it sounds like he will get a better education than the majority of high school students do. 

[regentrude]

If your DS can stay in the school he's in now, it sounds like he will get a better education than the majority of high school students do. 

 

While this may be the case, if I were the parent, I would be extremely hesitant to subject my high schooler to the grueling schedule the OP describes. 60-70 hour work weeks may be an appropriate load at a demanding university, but are not what I consider appropriate for a high schooler. I can completely understand that she would want to homeschool him.

 

Students deal with pressure in different ways. DD has friends who attended the same pressure cooker prestigious prep school. One hated it, the other liked it. She has a comparable work load now and is adamant that she would not have done well if subjected to this as a high schooler.

 

The rigor of the education is not the only criterion to consider. And one can pull off a darned rigorous high school education with much less time. It may not as good as that school, but far better than what most high schoolers get.

Edited November 1, 2016 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

We have consciously made high school less rigorous at our homeschool.  We still do a lot of subjects but there is a lot of time in there to exercise, to have down time etc.  I really think that down time is important for being able to mentally digest the material we are studying.  We are not the most rigorous homeschoolers out there but we are not slackers either.  Ds has not had trouble transitioning to his college classes, though he is in the well-regarded transfer track of a community college at this point.  A huge part of the decision to homeschool has been to "teach the kids I have" and that has not changed in high school.  I've found that homeschooling allows us to streamline some of the high school classes even though we are using mainstream books for our core subjects.  I've also found that the tutoring type nature of a small homeschool makes things more efficient.