Those who have changed their kids from slobs to neat...

[ktgrok]

Also, I want to be clear, I am not blaming you or looking down on you. I was in a similar situation in my first marriage. I credit much counseling for my ability to avoid such relationships in the future. I had to learn a lot to be able to be in a better relationship the next time. I had codependent tendencies, and counseling helped a ton. 

[Michelle My Bell]

You can handle it. It will be hard, but then it will be better. Do you have a trusted friend or family member who can help you start making some plans? Leaving isn't simple, but if you can plan financial and logistical things, it will be easier.

 

I sense the hurt and the feelings of being overwhelmed. I wish I could give you a hug.

 

I don't really have anyone but adult daughters. I try not to talk to them too much because I don't want to burden them. I am so ashamed of how I allowed this relationship to develop. Honestly, I just loved him and saw a future for us for so long. I wanted to marry him, but I really don't anymore. Not how things are now anyhow. 

 

The house is mine, so he will be the one to go. That is what stinks because it will take him time to find a place for himself and his son, and all the while I will have to be near him. When I am near him, I want him. But I know honestly that this relationship is toxic. I know this. I am not really opening up here, but I am opening up more than I have anywhere else. I am just too ashamed to talk to any friends. 

 

I should never have asked him to move in. I don't believe it is even right to do that as a Christian. I made my own trouble here. I know that. I should have followed God's plan for me but instead, I did this. 

 

The only counseling I know of around here is at my old church, and I couldn't go talk to them. I couldn't go tell them what is going on because I'd be too embarrassed. 

[ktgrok]

Just realized you are in nursing school. Codependents tend towards the helper professions. Can you do some reading on that? I think I picked up my traits from my mother (a nurse) and she got them from her mother (also a nurse). 

 

There is even online counseling now, if that is all you can find. 

[ktgrok]

Also, don't be ashamed. You were hoping for love and happiness. that's normal. But it sounds like you thought things would be different than they are. A u-turn makes more sense than continuing forward when you are on the wrong path. And it won't get easier. 

[Michelle My Bell]

Also, don't be ashamed. You were hoping for love and happiness. that's normal. But it sounds like you thought things would be different than they are. A u-turn makes more sense than continuing forward when you are on the wrong path. And it won't get easier. 

 

Thank you. I didn't come here for this when I asked my question and honestly I was shocked when everyone started saying I was in a bad relationship. I feel like God keeps telling me that I need to leave through situations like this. I am so tired and I feel a lot better. Thank you again for helping me. I will see what I can find locally to help me through this. 

[Michelle My Bell]

I just remembered my school actually provides free counseling services. I didn't even think of it till just now. I have actually longed for someone to talk to. I am going to make an appointment. 

 

[ktgrok]

I just remembered my school actually provides free counseling services. I didn't even think of it till just now. I have actually longed for someone to talk to. I am going to make an appointment. 

 

that's wonderful!!!! 

 

Hugs. I know how VERY hard it is to leave a relationship. I couldn't have done it without my therapist helping me talk everything through. 

[maize]

I just remembered my school actually provides free counseling services. I didn't even think of it till just now. I have actually longed for someone to talk to. I am going to make an appointment.

This sounds like an excellent place to start!

 

You do not have any reason to be ashamed. We make our choices in life one step at a time, and we never have all the information we might need. Sometimes we have to stop after walking down a certain path for awhile and reconsider based on what we now know--and then make course corrections.

 

As a Christian, you know that God expects us to do this very thing. That is why he made repentance and forgiveness part of His plan for us--because he knew there would be times when we would make mistakes and would need help to recover from them. He doesn't point a finger in shame at us when we mess up, he holds out his arms in love and offers us his help.

 

You can do this.

Edited October 22, 2016 by maize

[Rosie_0801]

The truth is, I know in my heart I need to break up with him but I can't seem to do it. There are more issues honestly. It is hard to say that. When we have discussions, I often find myself questioning if I am crazy and I really am the one with the problem. I don't know why I can't just walk away from him. I keep trying, and I keep changing my mind. I think I am scared I will regret it deeply. I don't know if I can handle the pain of ending our relationship. 

 

Oh Honey. Kick him out and don't let him smooch his way back in. You'll regret marrying him more than you'll regret breaking up.

 

I will make time in my stupid life to make a quilt patch if that'll help. I don't know if anyone else will make you one, but you will get one from me.

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[TammyS]

The truth is, I know in my heart I need to break up with him but I can't seem to do it. There are more issues honestly. It is hard to say that. When we have discussions, I often find myself questioning if I am crazy and I really am the one with the problem. I don't know why I can't just walk away from him. I keep trying, and I keep changing my mind. I think I am scared I will regret it deeply. I don't know if I can handle the pain of ending our relationship. 

 

How much will you regret your grown children refusing to speak to you because you put your boyfriend ahead of them?

 

How much will you regret having done it?

 

Can you handle THAT pain?

[TammyS]

 

 

The house is mine, so he will be the one to go. That is what stinks because it will take him time to find a place for himself and his son, and all the while I will have to be near him. When I am near him, I want him.

 

<snip>

 

The only counseling I know of around here is at my old church, and I couldn't go talk to them. I couldn't go tell them what is going on because I'd be too embarrassed. 

 

First part, could you stay with someone while he looks for a place?  Give him 30 days, in writing, and then he's homeless. 

 

Second part, as a Christian, you know that is your pride talking.  Embrace humility and get help.

[Rosie_0801]

First part, could you stay with someone while he looks for a place?  Give him 30 days, in writing, and then he's homeless. 

 

No, she should not move out of her own house!

 

 

 

Second part, as a Christian, you know that is your pride talking.  Embrace humility and get help.

 

As you are Christian, this would be a good time for you to show compassion. There is a distinction between pride and shame and you oughtn't kick a girl when she's down.

[Garga]

When we have discussions, I often find myself questioning if I am crazy and I really am the one with the problem.

And...there's the mother of all red flags. In your discussions, he somehow--either overtly or subtly--makes you think you're crazy and have problems, but you know that you don't. Classic signs of emotional abuse.

 

I'm glad to hear you're going to talk to someone. Don't change your mind about that. Honestly, it is sooo much better to be alone and even lonely, than with someone who makes you question your very sanity.

[Junie]

Thank you. I didn't come here for this when I asked my question and honestly I was shocked when everyone started saying I was in a bad relationship. I feel like God keeps telling me that I need to leave through situations like this. I am so tired and I feel a lot better. Thank you again for helping me. I will see what I can find locally to help me through this. 

 

I was thinking, even before I read this post, that this thread took a turn that you couldn't have predicted. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[RioSamba]

Please do not feel shame and guilt. They come from the enemy. If you feel truly convicted in your heart about something, seek God's forgiveness, and He will give it to you immediately. Shame and guilt are condemnation and self torture. God does not want you to torture yourself!

 

I was briefly married before DH. I married despite giant, waving, crimson flags. I'm sorry you are in this place, but I'm glad that you are making the realization that you need to get out before it becomes infinitely more difficult to extricate yourself and your children.

 

I'm so glad your school offers counseling. They may also have legal or housing services. It would be a good idea for you to understand what rights, if any, this man has. Some states are very protective of tenants, others not at all.

[MotherGoose]

First part, could you stay with someone while he looks for a place? Give him 30 days, in writing, and then he's homeless.

 

Second part, as a Christian, you know that is your pride talking. Embrace humility and get help.

I am not a lawyer, but I would think leaving your place for him for a period of time might give him evidence to say he belongs there and yOu don't. Might want to speak to an attorney first.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Take this in steps.  Don't stress over the big picture right now.  Just take the first step.  Make that call to the counselor.  Talk to them.  Then take the next step, and the next.  But right now just focus on that first step.  Sometimes that is the hardest part.

[marbel]

First part, could you stay with someone while he looks for a place?  Give him 30 days, in writing, and then he's homeless. 

 

<snip>

 

Oh, no, she should not abandon her home to him!   No no no!    

 

OP,  :grouphug:  :grouphug: .  I was kind of harsh on you before but after reading your followups...   :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Yes, the Lord uses interesting ways of getting through to us.  This thread is evidence of that.  You can do this.  

Edited October 22, 2016 by marbel

[Guest]

I haven't had any luck in this area either but a friend of mine who is one of the neatest people I know told me that she used to be a disgustingly messy person leaving food dishes and crumbs and dirty clothes and what have you all over her room. And then she moved to a basement bedroom. And then the bugs found her because of her habits. And she started being clean and kept at it and it stuck.

 

I keep dreaming of infesting DD's room with insects that are not allowed to roam throughout the rest of the house to see if that will motivate her to change her ways. But I have yet to find the right bugs for this project. However, I will say that as time goes on and she is getting older she is getting somewhat better about wanting her room to be neat (she still doesn't care about the rest of the house). I think that is due to the fact that she likes her room, she's been able to choose the paint colour, decor, furniture, accessories etc and she wants to be able to show it off to friends.

Sometimes, people change drastically because of a single event.

 

Until I was eleven years old, I had a very messy bedroom. A guest (a boy I was crushing on) came to our house and wanted to see some artowrk I had made. It was in my bedroom, half shoved under the bed with dirty clothes, dishes, and various bits of refuse all piled around. At that exact moment, I burned with shame that my bedroom looked this way. When he went home, I cleaned up my room and never reverted. By reputation, people know me as neat and organized. However, I do think that was the personality I was bound to have all along, this was just the catalyst event. Other people could have that same experience and still not have it ocurr to them that their room is a sty.

 

ETA: I'm leaving up this post, but I also now awkwardly realize this thread has strayed far from the original topic, so...sorry if this looks clunky and stupid now.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Quill

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by cathey

[maize]

If you need counseling resources beyond what your nursing school provides, check your health insurance provider list. Counseling is one of the specialties I can search for on mine and pulls up a long list of providers.

 

Also please remember that we are here for you. Quite a few women on this board have been through similar situations, but whether we have or not we are here to listen when you need to talk and to cheer you on when things are tough.

 

Sending hugs and prayers your way.

Edited October 22, 2016 by maize

[TammyS]

Oh, no, she should not abandon her home to him!   No no no!    

 

OP,  :grouphug:  :grouphug: .  I was kind of harsh on you before but after reading your followups...   :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Yes, the Lord uses interesting ways of getting through to us.  This thread is evidence of that.  You can do this.  

 

I don't mean abandon her home.  I just mean stay somewhere else for her own sake, while he looks. 

 

And, like I said, give him his 30 day notice, in writing.

[Arctic Bunny]

I don't mean abandon her home. I just mean stay somewhere else for her own sake, while he looks.

 

And, like I said, give him his 30 day notice, in writing.

I'm not in the US, but that seems like granting him a lot of rights you don't want him to have...

[Seasider]

He's not being fair to you. You are "slipping" because you have so much going on. You do not have time to get on them constantly for this. The fair thing would be for him to cut you some slack and stop fretting over the messes.

Ok I haven't read all the posts yet but I had to stop right here and get something off my chest.

 

Michele, you are NOT "slipping." You are PRIORITIZING in a very busy and purposeful period in your life. I am AMAZED at what you are navigating right now, what I've learned from other threads. In the whole spectrum of things, having neat teens & tweens is So. Not. Priority.

 

Quit being hard on yourself over this by saying that you are slipping. You are a fantastic mom in all the important areas. Crumbs? Sloppiness? One day that will be important but today is not that day.

 

Ok now I will continue reading and if what I wrote above proves redundant, well there ya go.)

[Seasider]

Oh Honey. Kick him out and don't let him smooch his way back in. You'll regret marrying him more than you'll regret breaking up.

 

I will make time in my stupid life to make a quilt patch if that'll help. I don't know if anyone else will make you one, but you will get one from me.

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

I would make you one!

 

Now I've read through. Hugs to you Michelle, you are in a complicated position. I am glad you are going to pursue counseling opportunities through the nursing school. Do not alienate your kids over this man. Just don't do that.

[Michelle My Bell]

I love you guys! Seriously!!! Thank you for your thoughts. They help more than you know. It has validated what I knew to be true even though he made me doubt myself. I'll give you an update in the near future as I work through this. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't mean abandon her home. I just mean stay somewhere else for her own sake, while he looks.

 

And, like I said, give him his 30 day notice, in writing.

I understand why you are saying this but this course of action seems a really bad idea. The home belongs to her but they are living together. If she is the one that moves out that puts him with a lot of control of what is probably her greatest financial asset. I would not recommend that course of action unless OP and her children were in imminent physical danger and there was no other way to protect them. It doesn't sound like that is the case.

[maize]

I agree that moving out could have negative consequences for OP. And if the fiancé shows any reluctance to move out himself she may need to consult an attorney.

 

Hopefully it does not come to that.

Edited October 22, 2016 by maize

[marbel]

I don't mean abandon her home.  I just mean stay somewhere else for her own sake, while he looks. 

 

And, like I said, give him his 30 day notice, in writing.

 

Right, she would not be abandoning her home in the sense of walking away from it altogether (not paying mortgage, etc).  But she would be leaving him in control of it and it could very well be made to look as if she intended for him to stay there, if he is the kind of person who might take advantage of that (and has a lawyer who could help him).  I don't know that even a 30-day eviction notice would help.   Or, he might be angry and decide to trash the place during those 30 days.  (I hope she is not living with someone like that, but you never know how something will affect people.)  

 

I'm not a lawyer but everything I've ever read about leaving a spouse or significant other screams "don't move out and leave him there."    

[ktgrok]

He could also trash the house out of spite.

[Guest]

"Possession is 9/10 of the law" is a common saying for good reason.

 

Op, hugs. It sounds like you have a way forward. It's hard to unhitch your pony from someone cart :( but you absolutely can do it.

Edited October 22, 2016 by OKBud

[LMD]

My mum prioritised bad men over her children. It is a symptom of something she needs help with but it makes her unsafe for me, emotionally. I have moved on from the pain of the bad stepfather, the pain of a broken relationship with my mother lingers.

 

Please, I'm nearly in tears for you, it sounds so so hard but your children will bless you for fighting for them.

 

Hugs and prayers

[Minerva]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Learning fun]

Oh , I know this story. This is the one where stepchild can do no right. Even when she changes A why there's still B, C,D, and indeed a whole alphabet that's wrong with her. Where does all of the hatred, faultfinding, and negativity go when stepchild grows up and leaves? Why that lands straight on mom. And mom spends 20+ years in a joy-less, soul sucking, life draining marriage. It does have a happy ending though when mom, in a moment of clarity, breaks free and ends the relationship. I can't recommend this story, as it's not worth the read.

[Learning fun]

I guess that's my way of saying that you can't "fix" the kids if they're not the ones who are broken.

[ktgrok]

And do ask your therapist at school if there is anything available for your kids...they probably need to talk to someone too to process all this, or will need to. They pick up their relationship habits from you, and you don't want the cycle continuing. Heck, you probably learned it somewhere when you were younger. Best to let them talk about this, with you or a therapist, now, so they don't make the same mistakes. I don't mean to say you are bad, or doing bad things, but that certain kinds of men seek out women who are nice, loving, hate confrontation, etc etc and prey on them. Counseling can help your kids process what good and bad relationships look like. 

[Michelle My Bell]

Anyone interested in an update 4 1/2 years later? Hindsight is 2020 right? I haven't been here much over the last few years, but I made a couple posts the last few days and ended up in my profile where I found this old message. I would say that I was stupid with my choices, but the truth is, I was scared and didn't have the life experiences, knowledge or support around me to really make the right choices. 

So a few months after I had posted this message, I finally could not take it anymore and I told him and his son to move out. We did not stop dating however. It helped a lot not having him in my home and I made a lot of excuses why it didn't work living together... "his son became a jerk, nursing school was overwhelming, other stressors..." Then I made the best (worst) decision ever regardless of the fact that the previous 4 years had been a rollercoaster of manipulation, confusion, gaslighting... In 2018 I married him. 

Fast forward to today. I have just spend the absolute most horrific 2+ years of my life with this man. Emotional, verbal, occasional physical abuse throughout. I didn't know back when I posted this what narcissism was. I do now. We went a counselor in August 2018 and he was called out as a narcissist by the counselor. I looked it up and I couldn't believe what I was reading. It was HIM! Interestingly, as I was re-reading this post I came across this statement I made... 

"The truth is, I know in my heart I need to break up with him but I can't seem to do it. There are more issues honestly. It is hard to say that. When we have discussions, I often find myself questioning if I am crazy and I really am the one with the problem. I don't know why I can't just walk away from him. I keep trying, and I keep changing my mind. I think I am scared I will regret it deeply. I don't know if I can handle the pain of ending our relationship."

gas·light

/ˈɡaslīt/

verb

gerund or present participle: gaslighting

1. manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
   
   I have been in a state of confusion for years, because I didn't understand what was happening. I regret that it took me this long to understand. I regret that I wasted my life and I regret that my kids had to see it all. Thankfully, my relationship with the kids is still amazing. They are all good. Back then, I still had all 5 at home. Now, the oldest is married (to a wonderful man) and lives a few blocks from me. The second oldest is a Montessori teacher and lives 12 minutes away, the third is a phlebotomist and is working actively to move closer to me. My two youngest are still home and doing well. 
   
   My husband has serious mental and emotional problems and though I have been trying to get him to move out for months, he is finally leaving April 7th. 
   
   The reason I didn't leave is because I put myself through 5 years of college, worked for a year saving every penny I could and bought a house on 1/2 acre in a beautiful little town. It is my dream home. I wasn't giving it up after all I worked for. Being married, he could try and fight me for it, so I tried to do all I could to get him out and not lose the house and home I have built for my kids. I believe I will succeed at that. God is my victor and I am not afraid. 
   
   I post all this because I pray that if anyone sees themselves in my words, that they would look at whats really going on in their life with their partner and see if their partner is a narcissist. If they are, there is no hope of rehabilitation for that person. It took me understanding narcissism to finally let go.
   
   Hope is a big thing for me as a Christian. It is not that I think God can't do something to radically change my husband, I just don't believe my husband will change because of his narcissism. He will not accept responsibility for anything he has ever done and if you don't acknowledge your sin, you can't change it or get forgiveness for it.

Anyhow, brighter days ahead and I am thankful to each of you for trying to help. I guess I just didn't really understand back then. ❤️ 

If anyone needs help understanding narcissism, I recommend Dr. Ramini and Surviving Narcissism on youtube. There are also quite a few excellent books and a narcissism support group on FB. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Michelle My Bell

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry, Michelle.

On another subject: seeing your signature - congratulations on becoming a nurse!

Edited March 22, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Ausmumof3]

Sorry things ended up so badly 😞 

glad you are finding your way to a better place now.  I hope it works out.

[fairfarmhand]

Awww...You have been through so much, but I'm glad that you are still hopeful and positive! Good for you for being able to prioritize what was important to you even though you were being played and manipulated. Not everyone is able to do that. 

Good vibes coming your way that thing will be somewhat smooth as things progress.

[OH_Homeschooler]

On 10/22/2016 at 12:46 PM, OneStepAtATime said:

I understand why you are saying this but this course of action seems a really bad idea. The home belongs to her but they are living together. If she is the one that moves out that puts him with a lot of control of what is probably her greatest financial asset. I would not recommend that course of action unless OP and her children were in imminent physical danger and there was no other way to protect them. It doesn't sound like that is the case.

I'd like to add that about 20 years ago I did this. I was breaking up with a boyfriend that I lived with, but it was really my apartment. I moved there and then he moved in with me several months later. I got to keep the apartment and everything, but rather than using the time constructively as you'd expect an adult to do, he sat around playing video games. He didn't look for a permanent place to stay or pack anything of his. I think I was only displaced for a week instead of a month, but I definitely wish I had made him stay with a friend that week and had designated times for him to come pick up his stuff. Some people just don't take it seriously enough if you give them time to get their s*** together. They keep on using you.  

 

ETA: AND I just realized this was a really old thread. I just read the update. I'm so sorry you went through that. I also went through a rough divorce a couple years ago and only in hindsight recognized all the ways he manipulated me. Yes, narcissists have a way of making you think that you're the crazy one. 

Congratulations on your new career and your insights on this relationship. The healing can begin, you will be okay. 🙂

Edited March 22, 2021 by OH_Homeschooler

[mommyoffive]

I am so sorry for everything you have been through.  You sound so hopeful and strong!  I hope that the future is so bright and full for you.  I am glad you are almost on the other side of this. 

[Michelle My Bell]

9 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

I'd like to add that about 20 years ago I did this. I was breaking up with a boyfriend that I lived with, but it was really my apartment. I moved there and then he moved in with me several months later. I got to keep the apartment and everything, but rather than using the time constructively as you'd expect an adult to do, he sat around playing video games. He didn't look for a permanent place to stay or pack anything of his. I think I was only displaced for a week instead of a month, but I definitely wish I had made him stay with a friend that week and had designated times for him to come pick up his stuff. Some people just don't take it seriously enough if you give them time to get their s*** together. They keep on using you.  

Thank you for that insight. Yeah, he stopped working as soon as we moved into my house I bought. He hasn't worked since June 2019. He went on unemployment and because of the pandemic, he has been able to sustain it ever since. He is a union carpenter and he has just been ignoring the calls for work ever since. He usually gets up at 12:30 and stares at his phone all day if he isn't being nasty to me. I can finally see the truth. Took me way too long. 

[Michelle My Bell]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

I'm sorry, Michelle.

On another subject: seeing your signature - congratulations on becoming a nurse!

Thank you so much! ❤️ 

[Garga]

I’m so glad your counselor called him out as a narcissist. Narcissists can be pretty good at fooling counselors, which just injures the other party (you) even more.  Good call on the part of that counselor!

[matrips]

Oops!  Hadn’t looked at original date!

Edited March 23, 2021 by matrips

[matrips]

I’m glad for your update.  It takes strength to walk away from a relationship and marriage like that, so you are showing your kids that.  That they don’t need to stay and be abused.  I’m sorry you had some really bad years in there.  Congratulations on the house and finishing your degree, and so happy you and your kids are in a good place.  Best wishes that April 7 goes smoothly and that all this is behind you soon. 

[maize]

Thank you for taking the time to update us Michelle. I'm so sorry the road has been rough but truly happy you are on an upward path and have found clarity to move forward. 

Many hugs ❤️

[frogger]

On 10/21/2016 at 10:55 AM, wendy not in HI said:

 

Sorry. Didn't see this was an old thread.

NOw it won't let me delete the quote.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by frogger