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When to transistion from CLE to Saxon?

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I am using CLE math this year for the first time with my 1st, 3rd and 6th graders. We love it.

 

The 6th grader is doing level 4 as she has struggled with math. She is doing really well but it's still not an easy subject. Because I haven't read good things about CLE high school level, I would like to transition to Saxon at some point but not before I absolutely have to. When would that be? I'm planning ahead obviously but I'm a huge planner 😉

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I would be curious to know where you read that about CLE. We use it and I have never seen anything so I would be interested to read it.

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I would be curious to know where you read that about CLE. We use it and I have never seen anything so I would be interested to read it.

Oh sorry, I don't know. I did a lot of research with math last spring and I just remember having it in the back of my mind that their high school levels aren't as awesome as the younger ones. I opted to not use it for my two teen boys. Since then I have decided to go with Saxon at that point but don't know when that will be with CLE. Do we go from 8 to algebra 1? Or something else?

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Hmmm....I'm curious about this too.  I started Saxon as a child in 5th grade and have kind of had that in my mind as a transition point....or after completing CLE 4.  I've always heard that Saxon in the younger grades doesn't shine as much so CLE to Saxon seemed like a logical progression for our family too.

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Hmmm....I'm curious about this too.  I started Saxon as a child in 5th grade and have kind of had that in my mind as a transition point....or after completing CLE 4.  I've always heard that Saxon in the younger grades doesn't shine as much so CLE to Saxon seemed like a logical progression for our family too.

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We transitioned after level 7, moving into Saxon Algebra 1. It was a very smooth transition. We really enjoyed using CLE as long as possible, so this path worked great! ;)

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Well, I think you might have read that the sunrise editions only include Algebra 1 at this time. The other high school maths are still in the Alpha Omega agreement they have. I wouldn't switch personally, until you have to. Maybe the Algebra 2 will be out be then. It still does a great job for prealgebra and you could switch after 8 into your preferred Algebra program. If you love it and it is working, personally I wouldn't swtich!

Hth!

Edited by Silver Brook
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Well, I think you might have read that the sunrise editions only include Algebra 1 at this time. The other high school maths are still in the Alpha Omega agreement they have. I wouldn't switch personally, until you have to. Maybe the Algebra 2 will be out be then. It still does a great job for prealgebra and you could switch after 8 into your preferred Algebra program. If you love it and it is working, personally I wouldn't swtich!

Hth!

Yes that's right! That's what I mean. I don't want to switch till I have to but in another thread someone advised me against using Saxon Algebra 2 if I hadn't used it for algebra 1. So I was wondering if there was a guideline or opinion on switching from CLE to Saxon. If they are updating to sunrise editions, you are right I can just wait and see.

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We transitioned after level 7, moving into Saxon Algebra 1. It was a very smooth transition. We really enjoyed using CLE as long as possible, so this path worked great! ;)

This is good to know. That's kinda what I was wondering. If it was possible to skip a level since she is working behind right now and so much review is built in to the spiral.

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I havn't seen a guideline, but have read lots of discussion about it. My not so mathy daughter did super well with CLE and I tried to transition her to Saxon 7/6 and It was a colossal fail. My gifted math little guy sailed into Saxon , no problem. Well, we do dislike the way it is laid out with the lack of white space, and have to work problems on paper instead of on the workbook pages. Although both Saxon and CLE are spiral programs, For my family they were not interchangeable. I have seen some discussion about the levels and grades and CLE and kids are very frequently in a level one or levels below their grade.

 

Depending on when you want to start Algebra/ when your child is ready, I would think you can stick with CLE all the way through the Pre-Algebra and then decide which Algebra program looks like the best fit. The high school levels of Saxon have a different author and personally I like them better than the lower levels. I sometimes read the best transition for an Algebra program is after level 7 and other times, people are recomending at least if not the entire level 8 first. Level 8 has some consumer math that some people recomend skipping to complete all of the Pre-Algebra. Your dc is on target to start Algebra in ninth grade if using CLE and starting after the 700's level?

 

Saxon is good and many people do well after CLE. One of my daughters complete the Saxon Algebra sequence, and two of my other kids did/ are doing Video Text Algebra. Other than Saxon,the more commonly used programs are Larsons, Lials, AoPS,Foersters, and others. We tried to consider which Math sequence was best for learning style and would help her get a traditonal four years of Math completed in high school with a bit of a later start. Videotext has 176 lessons to take a student from pre-Alg through Algebra two. My non mathy dd2 rcently started after CLE 600 series and about half of the Key to Algebra series for Pre-Algebra. Saxon earlier editons Algebra 1&2 and first half of Advanced Math incorporate Geometry, so an additonal class isn't needed. Those combinations of Math classes can be timesavers if needed in highschool . The high school board will be of lots for help a year before you are ready.Hth!

Edited by Silver Brook

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I am using CLE math this year for the first time with my 1st, 3rd and 6th graders. We love it.

 

The 6th grader is doing level 4 as she has struggled with math. She is doing really well but it's still not an easy subject. Because I haven't read good things about CLE high school level, I would like to transition to Saxon at some point but not before I absolutely have to. When would that be? I'm planning ahead obviously but I'm a huge planner 😉

 

When the children test into Math 54.

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We just transitioned this year. DD had completed about half of CLE 6 and tested into Saxon Math 87. So far it has pretty much all been review, but that has been a good thing because it has allowed her to become more comfortable with Saxon's format. There is much more explanation in each Saxon lesson than there was in CLE. I had thought we would use Algebra 1/2 but I'm glad that we used the placement test. Math 87 has been a good fit for her.

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Now I am a little bit panicky. I had really only glanced ahead at CLE upper level maths, but my daughter just completely skipped over CLE 6 and will be starting CLE 7 as soon as it comes in. However, when I looked just now, CLE does have Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and Functions and Trig. Am I misunderstanding what is missing or do these maths just not hit the marks for your family?

Edited by AnnaM

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Now I am a little bit panicky. I had really only glanced ahead at CLE upper level maths, but my daughter just completely skipped over CLE 6 and will be starting CLE 7 as soon as it comes in. However, when I looked just now, CLE does have Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and Functions and Trig. Am I misunderstanding what is missing or do these maths just not hit the marks for your family?

 

I don't think there's any reason to panic. Did you intentionally skip 6 or was that an oversight?

 

For us, I am not comfortable with doing advanced math solely on our own, so we will be transitioning to outsourcing math or at least relying on outside help sometime after Algebra 1/Geometry. Saxon is used at several co-ops in this area, it's used in many online classes, including at WTM Academy, and it also has more options in the way of DVD tutorials, etc., so that's one reason I chose it. Essentially, it has more resources for additional instruction, if you need that. But it maintains a similar spiral format to CLE, which was working for us.

 

Having used both (albeit only for a short while for Saxon so far), I will say that I think Saxon does a better job than CLE at explaining concepts in depth, using mathematical terminology, etc. CLE was a nice, gentle way to learn basic arithmetic, it allowed my dd to work more or less independently, and it was wonderful for that. I highly recommend it for elementary math (my ds is using the kindy curriculum this year)! I love that it has a very classic approach that focuses on learning math facts, etc. Some programs, IMO, place entirely too much emphasis on "conceptual understanding" in the grammar stage, while CLE offers, I think, just the right amount. But dd is ready for more advanced instruction, and I didn't feel that CLE would provide that challenge that she needed going into Algebra and beyond. We chose to switch before Algebra, as I said, to give her an opportunity to adjust to the new format.

 

YMMV, of course. :)

 

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It was on purpose. My middle child is "mathy" and I didn't see any reason to put her through a level of math she already had mastery of. We do classical conversations and they use Saxon. I guess I need to at least look at it. We haven't really had any issues with my oldest being in a different math, but if long term Saxon is going to be the better option I would rather know that now. I think part of me is stuck on the fact that 10 years ago, everyone I knew hated Saxon math. A lot of our local schools were using it and all I can remember is everyone talking about how incomplete it was. I realize a lot changes in 10 years, but I have been indoctrinated, haha. 

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I agree with you -- my dd is in Math 87 even though she's just started 6th grade. She flew through some of CLE and I didn't see any reason to slow her down. It's worked fine for her so far and will hopefully continue to do so.

 

I do think Saxon is an acquired taste, one that perhaps not everyone "acquires," LOL! It took some adjustment here. It's very wordy, unlike CLE, where the lessons are so succinct. Surprisingly, dd has had the most trouble with getting used to working her problems on paper instead of the workbook.

 

I'm not familiar with the inner workings of Classical Conversations, so I don't know if doing one curriculum there and another at home would be confusing for us or not. (If I had to guess, I'd say it would probably be more confusing for me than for the kids!) Since it sounds like my oldest and at least one of yours are working on pretty much the same level, it's not as if I have years of experience to look back on that you don't! I'm sure you will make the best decision for your family.

 

One thing to consider might be your dc's long-term goals. Particularly if you have a mathy child who might be looking to go into a STEM field, I'd be inclined to look for a curriculum that would be more challenging. That might not even be Saxon -- perhaps AoPS or something else. My dd is bright and takes to new concepts easily, but she's not an intuitive thinker when it comes to math; she needs explicit instruction. That's why I feel like Saxon is a good blend for us.

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Now I am a little bit panicky. I had really only glanced ahead at CLE upper level maths, but my daughter just completely skipped over CLE 6 and will be starting CLE 7 as soon as it comes in. However, when I looked just now, CLE does have Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and Functions and Trig. Am I misunderstanding what is missing or do these maths just not hit the marks for your family?

Algebra 1 is the only revised upper level class. It is a sunrise editon and very similar to the lower level. The Algebra2, Geometry, ect are not the sunrise editon that many of us use and love.

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We used CLE through the 800 level, and it worked very well. We would have used algebra 1, but DD enrolled in school for ninth grade.

 

CLE has a math program that goes all the way through high school, but, as mentioned by others, it has only been revised through algebra 1 at this point. The older editions are not well regarded, but the new Sunrise editions are good. They are continuing to revise the program, level by level, so if it will be a few years before you hit the higher levels, you may be able to go higher than algebra with CLE.

 

If I were going to switch away from CLE for algebra, I might switch at the prealgebra level. That is because CLE covers prealgebra over two years, in 700 and 800. If you student could benefit from extra time before starting algebra, completing 700 and 800 is a great way to go (we made that choice for our daughter, who finds math challenging; we did not think she should move into algebra before ninth grade anyway).

 

Just like your daughter, OP, my daughter started CLE level 400 at the beginning of sixth grade. She worked hard and caught up, so that she finished level 800 by the end of 8th grade. There are some ways to move more quickly through CLE, if you are interested. You may be looking at completing levels 400 through 600 in CLE, then switching to a different prealgebra program. Think about what year you want her to be starting prealgebra and whether you need to accelerate a bit through the material to be ready by then.

 

Edited by Storygirl

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It was on purpose. My middle child is "mathy" and I didn't see any reason to put her through a level of math she already had mastery of. We do classical conversations and they use Saxon. I guess I need to at least look at it. We haven't really had any issues with my oldest being in a different math, but if long term Saxon is going to be the better option I would rather know that now. I think part of me is stuck on the fact that 10 years ago, everyone I knew hated Saxon math. A lot of our local schools were using it and all I can remember is everyone talking about how incomplete it was. I realize a lot changes in 10 years, but I have been indoctrinated, haha. 

 

Twenty years ago, a good friend was a Saxon rep; I went with her to a couple of ACSI conventions (Association of Christian Schools International) and hung out with her in the Saxon booth for three days. There was a steady stream of teachers who had previously used other publishers coming through daily with testimonials about how well their students were doing in Saxon, how more of them were deciding to take more advanced maths because they had learned to love math, how they were doing better on SATs, how more of them were going on to major in math in college. It was mind-blowing. :-) So I don't know why "everyone" you knew thought Saxon was "incomplete," but apparently that sentiment is not universal. :-)

Edited by Ellie
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Twenty years ago, a good friend was a Saxon rep; I went with her to a couple of ACSI conventions (Association of Christian Schools International) and hung out with her in the Saxon booth for three days. There was a steady stream of teachers who had previously used other publishers coming through daily with testimonials about how well their students were doing in Saxon, how more of them were deciding to take more advanced maths because they had learned to love math, how they were doing better on SATs, how more of them were going on to major in math in college. It was mind-blowing. :-) So I don't know why "everyone" you knew thought Saxon was "incomplete," but apparently that sentiment is not universal. :-)

Do you think this is true with the SAT changing due to common core? I worry about u suing traditional math a bit. No intention of sending them to school so no need to transition. But I want them to score well.

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I had two kids go from CLE 805 to Saxon Algebra 1 without a problem. I think it's also possible to switch right after the 700 level.

 

It's also an option to do pre-algebra with Saxon. I might do that in the case that I wanted a child to start algebra in 8th grade or I wanted to use a workbook as long as possible due to writing or vision issues.

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Also, I would not switch to Saxon Algebra 2 directly after CLE Algebra 1 because my understanding is that CLE Algebra 1 does not include geometry like Saxon does.

 

If you plan to do a year of geometry between then I think using CLE Algebra 1 and then Saxon Algebra 2 might be okay.

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I have used both CLE and Saxon. The transition point CLE 700--> Saxon Alg. 1 seems about right. Or, 600-->8/7 or Algebra 1/2. Around the 700 and 800 levels is where students tend to get sick of CLE. The problems and lessons are long at that point. You would need to take a placement test for Saxon at whatever point you stop CLE.

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Do you think this is true with the SAT changing due to common core? I worry about u suing traditional math a bit. No intention of sending them to school so no need to transition. But I want them to score well.

 

My daughter has used Saxon from the beginning and just this week started the Calculus book. She is scheduled to take the SAT Dec 1 and just took the PSAT so I do not have actual scores, but on all practice tests I have given her, she has only missed 2-3 problems in the two math sections combined. So I think Saxon will be fine. 

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I had two kids go from CLE 805 to Saxon Algebra 1 without a problem. I think it's also possible to switch right after the 700 level.

 

It's also an option to do pre-algebra with Saxon. I might do that in the case that I wanted a child to start algebra in 8th grade or I wanted to use a workbook as long as possible due to writing or vision issues.

The child in question struggles with math a lot so I want a workbook as long as possible. She is doing pretty well in 400 but she's 11 and should be in 6th grade. I don't see algebra until at least 9th grade. Possibly even later.

 

Thanks!

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We're in CLE 8 now. I plan to keep going through CLE Algebra I.

I really love the CLE spiral. We retain well.

 

I expect, based on research, to be able to go on to Geometry and then Algebra II with another company after completing CLE Alg I.

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Anyone go from CLE 410 to saxon, and which one? or did you switch solely from CLE 600  to saxon 8/7? Just trying to line up with the co ops in the area.

 

 

Edited by Hottater

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Anyone go from CLE 410 to saxon, and which one? or did you switch solely from CLE 600 to saxon 8/7? Just trying to line up with the co ops in the area.

Have them take the Saxon placement test. My guess would be either 5/4 or 6/5...

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I am using CLE math this year for the first time with my 1st, 3rd and 6th graders. We love it.

 

The 6th grader is doing level 4 as she has struggled with math. She is doing really well but it's still not an easy subject. Because I haven't read good things about CLE high school level, I would like to transition to Saxon at some point but not before I absolutely have to. When would that be? I'm planning ahead obviously but I'm a huge planner 😉

 

When she tests into Math 54 or above.

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