Dd's (high school junior) extracurriculars are lame and types of classes aren't stellar-are we in trouble for colleges-and how to remedy it?

[HappyGrace]

Dd16 is a good student (high school student), although weak in math. On her practice PSAT tests (at home) her total is about 1120 (I don't even know if that's good or average). She gets all A's in her homeschool co-op classes, where she has had most of her classes the last couple years (so it's not "mommy grades"). She'd do a great college interview and would have excellent letters of recommendation.

 

BUT her classes are nothing spectacular-basically on level. Nothing really counts as Honors level or advanced. And very lame extracurriculars. Certainly no hooks! We have never been able to afford music lessons, etc, and she is not into sports.

 

She wants to go into nursing-hopefully Liberty University or Cedarville or some conservative Christian college. She is a wonderful girl, and loves the Lord and people, and everyone who meets her adores her. But her transcript is going to look terribly lean. :( I feel like such a failure as far as that goes, like I should have been doing more to get her into clubs and so on. I was sick for two years of her high school, culminating in a major surgery out of the country, but that won't matter on her transcript!!!! I'm just getting my head back in the game after the last couple horrible years to try to try to help her pull this all together.

 

Can you please take a look at what she's done (below) and make any recommendations on what to do to beef things up over the rest of this year and next (junior and senior year). I know this year is especially important so colleges can see it.

 

THANK YOU so much-you can't imagine how much we appreciate it!

 

Freshman year was the average courses.

 

Last yr as sophomore she took Geometry (Saxon), Spanish 3, Amer. History, Chemistry (Apologia), Lit (Shakespeare but not Honors), and one semester of Debate.

 

This year it's a homeschool co-op Spanish class that counts as college credit, homeschool co-op English Comp class that counts as college credit, Algebra 2(Saxon), Gileskirk (King's Meadow) History, Physics (Apologia).

 

Extra-curriculars:

 

Sophmore year-

-homeschool co-op play

-Vacation Bible School helper (one week)

-Puppet Ministry (4 wks)

 

Junior year-

-VBS helper (one week)

-Puppet Ministry (4 wks)

-works at library 3 days/wk (3 hours each)

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by HappyGrace

[regentrude]

Unless the schools she is looking at are highly selective, the applicant does not need a "hook" or super special extracurriculars.

Check the entrance requirements and the acceptance rates of the colleges she is interested in. There is a big difference between Liberty and Cedarville (20% vs 75%).

 

Her coursework looks solid to me. She hits math, science, English history and has a foreign language. That's not "lean" at all. That is good.

 

I would consolidate the extracurriculars and find a common umbrella under which they fit - VBS and Puppet ministry can be grouped as one, and you can elaborate on the details.

 

ETA: Her math looks right on track to me. And the PSAT does not really matter - it only counts for students who have a shot at NM.

Edited October 14, 2016 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

Have you looked at those colleges to see what they want to see?  We haven't applied to them but my guess is that she won't have trouble with what you have listed here.  Cedarville has a much higher acceptance rate than Liberty. 

[angela in ohio]

If she needs something more (I don't know enough about those schools to know whether they are competitive or not) I would add a layer to what she's already done.

 

She could take her own puppet ministry show - created, written, performed - and offer it to some vacation Bible schools in the area. Or perhaps an academic/literary puppet show for the library story time. Something to show that she creates her own opportunities and starts things. The library topic could be math, (an "I've always struggled with math, so I thought it was important to inspire younger students to enjoy math." sort of thing.)

 

 

[KarenNC]

I'm curious as to how the homeschool co-op classes count as a college credit. Are they doing a CLEP test at the end, perhaps? Something that is college-level would be high school honors level. I'd make sure she takes another year of Spanish next year. 

 

It might help to take a look at the data on GPA, SAT scores, and the like of enrolled freshmen for the colleges she's finding interesting. I like Collegedata.com. Here's the link for Liberty

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1531

 

Do note that the nursing majors may be more competitive or have additional requirements than regular admission. http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=29481 for Liberty.

Edited October 14, 2016 by KarenNC

[teachermom2834]

I discovered through my first son's college application experience that only the most selective schools care about the extras. My second son is not a joiner and doesn't want to do AP classes or go way beyond the requirements. I am ok with that.

 

Oldest ds has an excellent resume of activities and a loaded transcript. He won lots of scholarship money but I believe every penny came from the standard ACT/GPA formula the colleges used. He won nothing extra that was based on a holistic review of his application (in my opinion).

 

Extra curriculars are great as they enhance the quality of life of the individual. But I would not have a child do something just to look good for a college application. So do not worry that you messed up!

 

I believe my second ds will get the same scholarship money and admissions results as the first ds just based on GPA/ACT. I think it is true for the majority if schools.

 

Don't worry!

[mom2scouts]

Since both of the schools she's interested in attending are Christian schools, I think they will look favorably on her puppet ministry and VBS volunteering. Would she be interested in other church related or volunteer opportunities? Her academics look college prep, at least, and probably comparable to many others applying to those schools.

[regentrude]

I'm curious as to how the homeschool co-op classes count as a college credit. Are they doing a CLEP test at the end, perhaps?

 

I was going to ask the very same thing.  A coop class counting for college credit makes no sense to me.

[HappyGrace]

Thanks for the input so far-please keep it coming!

 

So she might get INTO colleges, but we are really counting on scholarship money. Would that be at all possible with what I listed?

 

The college classes at co-op are courses/teachers that were approved for college credit through a local college. This same college also approves college course work at local (mostly Christian and private) high schools. There is a process the teacher has to go through to get their course approved by the college, and the teacher must have certain credentials as well that must be approved by the college.

[Lori D.]

First, :grouphug:  for the rough few years your family weathered. Glad you are back on track now! :)

 

Agreeing with previous posters in that DD's transcript looks solid in the core academics:

 

9th grade (extrapolating from  "Freshman year was the average courses")

1.0 credit = English

1.0 credit = Math: Algebra 1

1.0 credit = Science: Biology

1.0 credit = Social Science

1.0 credit = Spanish 2

total = 5.0 credits

 

10th grade

1.0 credit = English: Lit: Shakespeare

1.0 credit = Math: Geometry

1.0 credit = Science: Chemistry

1.0 credit = Social Science: Amer. History

1.0 credit = Spanish 3

0.5 credit = Debate

total = 5.5 credits

extracurriculars: homeschool co-op play / VBS helper / Puppet Ministry

 

11th grade

1.0 credit = English: Comp

1.0 credit = Math: Algebra 2

1.0 credit = Science: Physics

1.0 credit = Social Science: History

1.0 credit = Spanish 4

total = 5.0 credits

extracurriculars: VBS helper / Puppet Ministry / library volunteer

 

That's a solid line-up of academic credits! Looks like you've well on track for the basic required courses for most schools, with your "4x5" credit plan (4 credits each of the 5 academic subjects: English, Math, Science, Soc. Science, and For. Lang.).

 

And the library volunteering is a lot of time and hours, while the VBS and Puppet Ministry are repeated which shows personal interest and commitment. Those are all great things as "hooks" to show who she is as a person. :)

 

My 2 questions:

 

1. What might you be missing from your credit list that the universities want for required credits for admission? For example, for Liberty, you have all the required academic courses, but are missing the "at least 4 units of elective credits" that Liberty wants. Meanwhile, Cedarville does not require Fine Arts or Elective credits for admission, BUT they do say that if planning on nursing or other STEM fields, "take as many courses in math and science as possible".

 

2. Wondering alongside KarenNC how the co-op classes of English and Spanish are counting as college credit... ETA -- you answered that while I was typing. :) Just going to point out that while that is SUPER that those classes are at college level, and that definitely helps show working at an Honors/advanced level, those credits may NOT transfer to any other college (other than the college granting the college level designation), so that may not knock out any college credits in advance.

 

My thoughts:

 

1. Bump up the overall low total credit count

From what you posted, DD is accruing a solid 5 credits per year, which is great, but just barely clears the minimum for many college admission requirements -- 22 to 24 credits is a VERY solid amount of credits for applying to college, as it also allows the student to have additional credits in different directions for different college admission requirements -- and it makes the student more competitive for scholarships and entrance into special programs.

 

For the spring semester of 11th grade, and for both semesters of 12th grade, try to add 1-2 more classes than what you have been doing (so long as it does NOT cause DD to drop in her GPA and overall rigor of work), so you can bump up the total credit amount for 11th and 12th grades to 5.5 or 6.0 credits. It's a really good idea to have a transcript with a minimum of 22 total credits.

 

2. Make some of those additional credits Electives and Fine Arts

1.0 credit of Fine Arts IS very frequently part of the required credits for admission, and, as we see from Liberty University, sometimes Electives are expected/required as well. (The nice thing is that Fine Arts and Elective credits are not rigorous like academic classes, so they are not as hard to squeeze in there -- some or all of the hours can be done in the evenings, on weekends, or over the summer as a summer school class.) And that's the type of credit you're currently missing. So, win-win if you can work in 2.5 credits of that type in the next year and a half. ;)

 

3. Look into some extracurriculars

See what your local options are for high school student extracurriculars -- maybe even for this spring semester. Ask other homeschool families at the co-op what their students are doing and enjoying. Look into special high school nursing or STEM summer programs, internships, or other opportunities. Maybe volunteering all summer at the local hospital, or during the school year participating in a community college vocational-tech program in pre-nursing / nursing.

 

What about a summer volunteer trip abroad that focuses on nursing skills? Here's an overview article on Teen High School Volunteer Abroad Programs. Here are some specific groups:

Projects Abroad

Gap Medics

International Medical Relief

 

4. Explore colleges

Over the next few months, figure out what colleges DD wants to apply to so that if you're missing credits to meet their admission requirements, you still have spring of 11th grade, the summer between 11th and 12th grades, and all of 12th grade to work those in.

 

Here's a list you and your DD may want to start exploring for college ideas: "50 Best Value Colleges for a Nursing Degree, 2015". And here are two more lists: "20 Best Conservative Colleges in America", and, "50 Most Affordable Christian Colleges in the U.S." (not all have nursing programs).

 

5. Finances

Since financial aid is going to be a high priority, look heavily into colleges that have a generous amount of money to award.

 

Consider a work-for-tuition (so, tuition is free) college option, like the program at Berea. (I know a Christian student going there right now, and he is loving it!)

 

If your local community college is considerably cheaper than a university and offers solid credits that transfer well, consider living at home and knocking out 2 years of gen. ed. credits there and then transferring to a university that accepts a lot of transfer credits, so DD only attends 2 years at the higher cost school -- and, there are transfer scholarships that can reduce the cost of those years.9

 

Look into the possibility of working at a hospital that has a tuition reimbursement program -- the student works part time at the hospital while earning the degree which the hospital helps pay for, and then the student continues to work at the hospital for several years after graduation in exchange for the tuition.

 

Consider applying to colleges which accept a LOT of CLEP test credits, and start working on knocking out CLEP credits now -- in the next year and a half, possibly knock out a year of college gen. ed. credits so that DD still enters as a freshman with possibility of freshman scholarships, but only needs 3 years of college costs to complete the degree.

 

For more ideas on alternative funding of college, check out this past thread: "s/o cautionary tale: high cost of college -- a brainstorming $$ idea thread!"

 

BEST of luck as you and DD start moving into the final stretch of high school and the first leg of the race of preparing for college! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Lori D.

[freesia]

As usual, I love Lori's post.  I agree that in general she is doing fine.  I think if you want scholarship money you are going to have to have her work on her test scores.  Kahn academy is awesome for that.

 

Also, although Liberty's acceptance rate is lower, Cedarville's SAT score average is higher.  I'm not sure what is at the basis of Liberty's lower acceptance rate and it would bare some research (is it stricter on faith issues?  Do a lot of low stat Christian kids apply?  More name recognitions?)

 

My friend's dd, who had good SATs (around 1250, I think) got into Cedarville with some some scholarship money.  Her brother has much higher stats and will get more.  She also had an average high school record and a few--but not tons --of extra curriculars.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks for the input so far-please keep it coming!

 

So she might get INTO colleges, but we are really counting on scholarship money. Would that be at all possible with what I listed?

 

The college classes at co-op are courses/teachers that were approved for college credit through a local college. This same college also approves college course work at local (mostly Christian and private) high schools. There is a process the teacher has to go through to get their course approved by the college, and the teacher must have certain credentials as well that must be approved by the college.

 

Does this mean that the coop students will have a transcript from the local college with credits they can try to transfer in at other schools?  Or does it mean that if the student attends the local college, their coop course is accepted for credit there only?

 

 

As far as scholarships go, typically the biggest amounts are grants offered by the universities themselves.  Sometimes they can seem like a big discount, but since the tuition is high to begin with, the ending amount might be disappointing.  (For example, ds1 received a $20,000 merit award at one school, but since the cost of attendance was $45,000 that left the price similar to regular in state rates at other schools.

 

Merit aid is used by schools to attract students who have scores that are higher than their average.  On some of the college search engines, you can look specifically for schools where your scores would be in the top 75% of students attending.

 

You may want to look at schools that are larger, might offer aid, and have strong Christian campus ministries rather than specifically for Christian schools.  

[Lori D.]

As usual, I love Lori's post.  I agree that in general she is doing fine.  I think if you want scholarship money you are going to have to have her work on her test scores.  Kahn academy is awesome for that.

 

Also, although Liberty's acceptance rate is lower, Cedarville's SAT score average is higher.  I'm not sure what is at the basis of Liberty's lower acceptance rate and it would bare some research (is it stricter on faith issues?  Do a lot of low stat Christian kids apply?  More name recognitions?)

 

My friend's dd, who had good SATs (around 1250, I think) got into Cedarville with some some scholarship money.  Her brother has much higher stats and will get more.  She also had an average high school record and a few--but not tons --of extra curriculars.

 

Agreeing here with Freesia, and also echoing KarenNC's point above about looking up incoming freshman test scores for colleges -- what you want to shoot for is "being the big fish in the small pond". If your DD's ACT/SAT score puts her in the top 5% to 10% of all incoming freshmen at a college, she will land the big $$ for merit aid.

 

For example, from College Board's Big Future university data on incoming freshmen:

 

- Liberty = only 11% of incoming freshman have an ACT score between 30-36 (with 36 being a perfect score, and 21 being "average") What does this mean for your DD and her test scores? If your DD can score a 30 or above on the ACT, that puts her in the bracket for high $$ of merit aid from Liberty. The average freshman entering Liberty has an ACT score of 20-27, so even a score of 28 on the ACT would give DD a good chance as a partial scholarship.  :)

 

- Cedarville = 14% of incoming freshman have an ACT score between 30-36; and the average freshman entering Cedarville has an ACT score of 23-28. What does this mean for your DD and her test scores? DD would need to score 29-30 on the ACT for partial merit scholarship $$, and probably a score of over 30 to land a larger amount of merit aid money.

 

 

Happy Grace: I don't know if you've had the chance to start running numbers and figuring out what your family can afford, but if you are feeling better from your health issues, this would be a very good time to start learning about financial aid, financial need, the FAFSA and the EFC (estimated family contribution) number generated by the FAFSA which dictates how much "need-based" aid a family can hope for from a college. Need-based aid is based on these numbers generated by the FAFSA and is not necessarily connected with GPA or test scores. The other type of scholarship is merit-based aid, which is tied to high grades and high ACT/SAT test scores and not usually connected with student "financial need".

 

You might start with this thread for info on scholarships: "Preparing for college; which scholarships/grants to apply for?"

 

Also, I *highly* recommend these 2 threads for walking through the financial aid process and understanding all the terms you will encounter, AND for understanding just what kind of money is required for college so you can figure out what you can afford:

"Scholarships"

"Understanding Financial Aid"

Edited October 15, 2016 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

And now I'm just copy-pasting from a hand-out I did for our homeschool group on scholarships -- specifically info on colleges that award "automatic" scholarships (i.e., a specific amount is awarded to students just for coming in as a freshman with a high GPA and high ACT/SAT test score), AND, info on free-tuition and work-for-tuition colleges:

 

Based on student test scores and GPA:

- LIST of Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarship colleges

- Search Engine website ($8 registration fee) for automatic scholarships (partial and full)

 

Work Colleges Consortium (earning while learning):

- Alice Lloyd College (KY)

- Berea College (KY)

- Blackburn College (IL)

- College of the Ozarks (MO)

- Ecclesia College (AR)

- Sterling College (VT)

- Warren Wilson College (NC)

 

Colleges where students work jobs to pay for tuition:

- Webb Institute -- exceptional college of engineering

- Curtis Institute of Music

- Macaulay Honors College at the City University of New York

- Deep Springs College

Edited October 14, 2016 by Lori D.

[HappyGrace]

I'm sitting here overwhelmed with emotion that you all would take the time to think through our situation and write out such helpful guidance. Seriously. That you shared time out of your BUSY lives to help like this just blows me away! THANK YOU!

 

I am brain dead at the moment and sick and tired and going to bed, BUT I'm looking forward to waking up fresh in the morning and reading through these with my notepad and pencil ready! And then I may have follow-up questions :)

 

Please know that you all have made my day today!!!!!

[KarenNC]

We're also hoping for a substantial amount of merit aid. Here's the process we're going through in looking at colleges:

1) Does the school offer the major she currently wants (and in other potential areas of interest, since many students change their majors once in school)?

2) Is the school likely to be a good social fit (in your case, a Christian school or one with a large and active Christian student community)?

3) Is the school in the geographic area in which she wants to stay (mine would like to be within reasonable day driving distance of home roundtrip, so about 4 hours, and not anywhere really, really hot. I'd rather not have to go over the mountains in the winter to get her ;))?

4) Does she meet or is she willing to meet the admission requirements in terms of course selection and testing (always making sure to check whether there are special or extra requirements for homeschoolers)?

5) Is she in the top 5-10% of incoming freshmen in terms of test scores and GPA?

6) Is there an honors college option within the school? What are the perks associated with it? That can make a real difference when the student is in the top of the class.

7) How much is the top scholarship offered by the school for students in her category (for some public schools, there are different types or levels of scholarships for in-state vs out-of-state)? How does that relate to the total cost of attendance? If the top scholarship is $20K, but the total cost of attendance is $60K per year, that's a very different situation than if the cost is $25K per year. Some have the option of up to full rides, some up to full tuition, some up to a specific amount. Of course, there's no guarantee that my student will get the top scholarship since they are usually competitive, but there's next to no chance for a full ride or full tuition if the school doesn't offer it to anyone.

8) Does the school accept any of the credits she already has/will have in terms of dual enrollment or CLEP? To fulfill general ed credits or primarily as electives? This is icing on the cake for us.

 

After answering those questions, then we try to arrange visits to the schools still on the list, or at the very least a chance to talk with their reps at a college fair. My goal is that she will be able to have a list of 6-8 schools where she is very competitive for really good aid and where she would be comfortable attending.

 

ETA: If she is willing to look at public schools, don't automatically rule out out-of-state. Some state schools will offer scholarships to out-of-state students that include dropping the tuition to in-state rates, which makes the scholarship a lot more valuable.

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by KarenNC

[Janeway]

I think it all sounds good to me, especially the puppet ministry. She might wish to write something about it in her essay.

[FriedClams]

Thanks for the input so far-please keep it coming!

 

So she might get INTO colleges, but we are really counting on scholarship money. Would that be at all possible with what I listed?

 

The college classes at co-op are courses/teachers that were approved for college credit through a local college. This same college also approves college course work at local (mostly Christian and private) high schools. There is a process the teacher has to go through to get their course approved by the college, and the teacher must have certain credentials as well that must be approved by the college.

If scholarship money is an issue, I'd work on ACT prep and bumping her test scores. I'd make preptime a class and see if she can make some progress there.

[SarahW]

I'm not that familiar with Liberty, but I know people who went to Cedarville.

 

Echoing what others have said, my impression is that for Cedarville they want 1) A college-prep high school transcript (check) and 2) Involvement in church ministry (check). To get scholarship money you need high test scores. I mean, the advantage you have there is that you don't necessarily need a perfect 36/1600, but simply put, financial aid is largely based on the numbers College Board and FAFSA sends them.

[bugs]

For some schools, the student's essay counts in their holistic approach to admissions.  If your daughter did a lot around the house while you were ill, she should discuss that.

[GoodGrief]

Great information from LoriD!!

 

I'd start sitting down and looking at the websites of colleges that your daughter might have interest in; see if they have the programs she would need, then see what kind of scholarships they offer. Try to figure out what realistically you can pay, and whether student loans are on the table for you.

 

I think she will be fine for admission to many, many places. The merit aid may be trickier. Do think about having her work to bump up her test scores a bit; that will help!

 

Work on writing and essays. Some scholarships will come down to the ability to express ideas in an essay. This could beef up the parts of her apps that are more average.

 

 

[HappyGrace]

Just coming back to say I'm still sick today...will come back to post hopefully tmrow! So much good info here..hope I am feeling better trmow.... THANK YOU