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Guns: I am so upset


Kathryn
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Probably once every few months there are gunshots from the wooded property behind our neighborhood, backing up to our house. We assume they're doing target practice. We've called the police on occasion and been told that they can do whatever they want on their property but they're responsible for whatever damage they cause. This evening, as DH was walking out the door to take DD to pick out a birthday cake for me, it started again. He brought her back inside and said he was going to go look in back. As he is in the back, a whole lot of yelling starts happening. The next-door neighbors had a bullet come through their wall and lodge in another wall three feet from where they were standing. The neighbors across the street from us both were standing in their driveway (which is across from the empty space between our houses) when a bullet went through the front of their garage less than two feet above their heads. My husband was standing in the backyard screaming at the top of his lungs for them to stop firing. The shots finally stopped when the sirens started.

Unfortunately, the deputies came down our street first and had to be directed to where the shots came from. By the time they drove back there with loudspeakers calling for them to come out with their hands up and then finally went to the two houses on those properties, nobody was there. We're told that they'll put a detective on the case in the next few days and if they find out who did it, they'll be charged with reckless discharge of a firearm and pay a fine and restitution.

I am so upset. Our neighbors could have been killed. We could have been killed. And *if* they catch them (there are only two houses there and one of them has a habit of shooting there, it shouldn't be a problem), they'll get a fine! My kids are terrified and won't sleep in their room (which faces the back of the house). And these people *might* pay a fine. I don't understand how this is okay.

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It's not in public. It's on their private property, which is why it's legal.

I would think that when bullets start leaving their property it's no longer legal. That's just insane. Did the police collect the bullets? So they can determine later which gun it came from? (Or did I watched too much CSI in years past?)

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I would think that when bullets start leaving their property it's no longer legal. That's just insane. Did the police collect the bullets? So they can determine later which gun it came from? (Or did I watched too much CSI in years past?)

They did not. I don't know if they will later on or not.

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I don't see how this is legal if the bullets are endangering others. We can shoot a registered firearm on our property, but it has to be limited in a way that cannot endanger others. We have ten acres and shoot at targets into a dirt berm, which is allowed.

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That is awful!  How much land do the shooters have?  We target shoot on our property, but we live way out in the country.  We have 50 acres with no neighbors within a mile of us in any direction.

 

My dad also lives way out in the country and people hunt in the woods behind his house.  A few years ago, a bullet came through the wall of his house right into his living room.  Fortunately, he wasn't home when it happened.  

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Well because their precious precious rights to fire off guns and have guns and love their guns is way more important than your safety.  Duh...

 

Unless someone TRULY lives in the middle of nowhere I don't see how it is reasonable to allow shooting off guns in one's yard.  I can't imagine they can always control where the bullet is going to go or how far it is going to go or in what direction...(reading Selkie's post above that sounds reasonable to me...no neighbor within a mile in any direction...I'd feel ok with that). 

 

Ridiculous. 

 

Where I live hearing gunshots means someone is likely trying to kill someone.  So there is no gray area with that around here. 

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Here is a map from my kids' Pokémon Go app (so no identifying info). The guy is standing right behind my house looking at the two houses it could have come from. The houses that were hit were the one to the guy's left and the one across the street (in the bottom left corner of picture). One house has 6 acres and one has 3.

 

95CA90C7-AD67-492F-8AFA-2124DB609AF9.png

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Where do you live?

 

Have you read the County ordinances stating the specific law? (Not taking the officers word for it.) Then you can figure out specifically what the shooters can be charged with. I would definitely go to the Co. Board of Supervisors and let them know what's happening.

 

They're clearly in violation of the law.

 

That the house owners behind you weren't home still means they need to be engaged.

 

Personally, I would go with the squeaky-wheel technique. Politely of course. But I'd be talking and talking (and talking) with the detective about his plan of action.

 

Finally, if nothing appropriate was happening, I'd go to the local media. It's definitely a story. That's the last thing I would do: definitely not the first thing. Once you talk w/ the media, the police dept. looks bad and that's the last thing they want.

 

Sometimes just suggesting that you'll go to the media will get action.

 

For everyone who is ready to write hate-posts: I'm a huge supporter of police. Many are super hard working, very caring people -- I know that. I have several in my family.

 

This story is horrific. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Alley

Edited by Alicia64
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Where do you live?

 

Have you read the County ordinances stating the specific law? (Not taking the officers word for it.) Then you can figure out specifically what the shooters can be charged with. I would definitely go to the Co. Board of Supervisors and let them know what's happening.

 

They're clearly in violation of the law.

 

That the house owners behind you weren't home still means they need to be engaged.

 

Personally, I would go with the squeaky-wheel technique. Politely of course. But I'd be talking and talking (and talking) with the detective about his plan of action.

 

Finally, if nothing appropriate was happening, I'd go to the local media. It's definitely a story. That's the last thing I would do: definitely not the first thing. Once you talk w/ the media, the police dept. looks bad and that's the last thing they want.

 

Sometimes just suggesting that you'll go to the media will get action.

 

For everyone who is ready to write hate-posts: I'm a huge supporter of police. Many are super hard working, very caring people -- I know that. I have several in my family.

 

This story is horrific. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Alley

I'm in South Carolina. Apparently, there's no statewide law regulating backyard shooting. I'm in Lexington County, not inside any city limits. I can't find anything online relating to any further County ordinances.

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It is terrifying. We often hear gunfire near us. I am sure it is target practicing but I am not sure they are being safe. We found a discharged bullet in the bottom of our pool.

 

We have an acre, others behind us where I think the shots come from have 3 or more.

 

I called the sheriff and he advised us to talk to the neighbors....but he also advised me to not be confrontational. The more I think about it the more I think the sheriff should have been talking to the neighbors. Anyway we opted to not say anything, but it really is not a good situation.

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The OP ended with "okay".  That is NOT OK.  They are not responsible gun owners.  People who fire, recklessly, as you described, are extremely dangerous.  If your local Police Department or Sheriffs Department has a Crime Prevention Unit or Office, possibly you can explain to them what happened. Possibly, if you are lucky, they have laws that can help you, before there is a tragedy.   Responsible gun owners put safety as the number one priority. Your neighbors are not responsible gun owners and are very dangerous.

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One more suggestion from dh: put up a game camera. There are several that are fairly inexpensive and work. They're motioned censored and many use them to watch birds or animals in their yard.

 

I agree; this situation is super serious.

 

Alley

I second the game cameras. Good ones aren't cheap- see if your neighbors will go in with you and then have your dh check the data every other day or so.

 

I'm surprised your county or city doesn't have acreage minimums for shooting. We do here- it varies from county to county but is pretty consistent on being at least 15 acres, if not more.

 

I'm so sorry. That has to be terrifying. The only other suggestion I have is calling the game warden and report suspected poachers. Game Wardens have more power than most cops from my understanding and don't need a warrant or anything else if poaching is suspected. It is about to be deer season so I would call now. They might take you more seriously than the sheriff as well.

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I'm in South Carolina. Apparently, there's no statewide law regulating backyard shooting. I'm in Lexington County, not inside any city limits. I can't find anything online relating to any further County ordinances.

 

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.php

 

SECTION 16-23-440. Discharging firearms at or into dwellings, structures, enclosures, vehicles or equipment; penalties.

 

(A) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into a dwelling house, other building, structure, or enclosure regularly occupied by persons. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

(B) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into any vehicle, aircraft, watercraft, or other conveyance, device, or equipment while it is occupied. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 16-142; 1952 Code Section 16-142; 1942 Code Section 1120; 1932 Code Section 1120; Cr. C. '22 Section 18; Cr. C. '12 Section 163; 1910 (26) 785; 1988 Act No. 469; 1993 Act No. 184, Section 49; 2001 Act No. 98, Section 1.

 

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As described in your OP, this seems like a felony under SC state law. 

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http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.php

SECTION 16-23-440. Discharging firearms at or into dwellings, structures, enclosures, vehicles or equipment; penalties.

 

(A) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into a dwelling house, other building, structure, or enclosure regularly occupied by persons. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

(B) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into any vehicle, aircraft, watercraft, or other conveyance, device, or equipment while it is occupied. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 16-142; 1952 Code Section 16-142; 1942 Code Section 1120; 1932 Code Section 1120; Cr. C. '22 Section 18; Cr. C. '12 Section 163; 1910 (26) 785; 1988 Act No. 469; 1993 Act No. 184, Section 49; 2001 Act No. 98, Section 1.

 

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As described in your OP, this seems like a felony under SC state law. 

Agreed.  Perhaps the officers were unaware of the law?  It concerns me that they did not gather evidence for a ballistics match.

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http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.php

 

SECTION 16-23-440. Discharging firearms at or into dwellings, structures, enclosures, vehicles or equipment; penalties.

 

(A) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into a dwelling house, other building, structure, or enclosure regularly occupied by persons. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

(B) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into any vehicle, aircraft, watercraft, or other conveyance, device, or equipment while it is occupied. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

 

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 16-142; 1952 Code Section 16-142; 1942 Code Section 1120; 1932 Code Section 1120; Cr. C. '22 Section 18; Cr. C. '12 Section 163; 1910 (26) 785; 1988 Act No. 469; 1993 Act No. 184, Section 49; 2001 Act No. 98, Section 1.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As described in your OP, this seems like a felony under SC state law.

That's what I thought too, but on a law forum it was explained that it has been interpreted that it only applies if the original discharge was unlawful (so in commission of a crime or in city limits where not allowed). Since they are allowed to target practice on their property, what I read said this wouldn't apply.

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That's what I thought too, but on a law forum it was explained that it has been interpreted that it only applies if the original discharge was unlawful (so in commission of a crime or in city limits where not allowed). Since they are allowed to target practice on their property, what I read said this wouldn't apply.

I think when bullets become lodged into houses it is no longer considered target practice.

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That's what I thought too, but on a law forum it was explained that it has been interpreted that it only applies if the original discharge was unlawful (so in commission of a crime or in city limits where not allowed). Since they are allowed to target practice on their property, what I read said this wouldn't apply.

 

I don't believe that is correct.

 

The right to lawfully discharge a firearm requires the certain precautions be taken, which is why the crime is referred to as "reckless".  If the manner in which they are discharging the firearm causes the bullets to end up in the dwelling of another or causes harm to another, then the discharge itself was reckless and not lawful. 

 

According to your OP, the officers mentioned reckless discharge of a firearm, which would be the correct charge.  A fine is a likely outcome, but in your state this crime is a felony and can carry more than just a fine.  It likely is included in the lowest class of felonies under state law, and my guess is for a first time offense with no bodily harm the sentence wouldn't be severe, but the prosecutor can push for more than just a fine.

Edited by ChocolateReignRemix
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It may be that your county doesn't have laws about property size & firearms because in the past it was mostly large parcels of farmland.  Now, however, you've got some houses with largish property (3-6 acres) right next to normal suburban lots.   That's a recipe for disaster moving forward.  It might be wise to bring up the issue with local politicians, with an eye towards writing new laws to take the new lot-size reality into account.  That would be tricky politically, but if it is handled carefully, and your situation is used as an example of what may turn out much worse in the future should a law not be passed, you could be successful in making sure that the next time this happens the perpetrator is held accountable for the reckless risk to life and limb.

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Agreed.  Perhaps the officers were unaware of the law?  It concerns me that they did not gather evidence for a ballistics match.

 

Yeah and when will they bother to make sure?  After someone is dead?

 

I mean apparently they don't lack complete sense because the law IS there.  But why it's not being taken seriously is confusing.

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The neighbors of the OP are obviously not the type of people who join the N.R.A., which preaches and teaches gun safety.  If I were the OP, I would assume that they are using drugs and are involved in other types of criminal activities and I would pray that they move away before there is a tragedy.  I would urge the OP to pursue this.  

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Also, chapter 136 of your county's ordinances says it is illegal to discharge a weapon within the municipality.

We are not within the bounds of any city or town.

 

We are planning on moving in the next few months and we'll be within city limits then so won't have this issue. I'm just absolutely appalled that it is okay legally to do this. There aren't any laws regulating land size, proximity to others, or targets. Nothing unless you're in city limits somewhere.

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I'm so sorry! We live in city limits on the county line. Driving into my neighborhood one day some men were deer hunting and shooting toward a major highway. I would guesstimate where the guy was hunting was about 1/4-1/3 of a mile from the road to the off ramp. I reported it to the sheriff. Then called my husband to make sure I wasn't being overly cautious. Technically the hunters were legal, but from what I was taught about hunting, shooting a deer rifle in that area was not safe. The sheriff could only stop them if he witnessed them being unsafe which he couldn't from his car.

 

Where I grew up hunting wasn't allowed within a certain number of feet of the road or houses. After that incident I talked to a couple hunter friends that live here and are familiar the laws here. They agreed the hunters weren't breaking any laws but were not using safe hunting practices. Most hunters do try to be safe, the few that aren't sure frighten a lot of people.

 

I'm glad no one was hurt. I hope they catch those who acted irresponsibly.

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This is when I say call the president of your HOA if there is one, your most local elected official (councilman/alderman) and your biggest local TV station's action reporter.

 

You may not have legalities on your side at the moment, but y'all need to get the ball rolling to get some ordinances in place. This is a very serious matter.

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Stray bullets is one reason I like living in a city. We have a law against discharing a firearm and I believe all the other cities I have lived in did too. I don't know what to advise. It is very scary.

Can't say as I agree. I live in a big city, too, and their are ordinances against this sort of thing. But criminals will be criminals and

stupid people will be stupid. We happen to live across the street from an apartment complex full of stupid people, since our PD

is there more than anywhere else. The police helicopter flies over this area every other night it seems, and at least twice a year we hear gunshots.

Remember, we live in a big city. But that doesn't ensure our safety!

 

As for the OP's situation, more than likely, when the perpetrators are caught and charged, they will be doing more than just paying a fine!

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Can't say as I agree. I live in a big city, too, and their are ordinances against this sort of thing. But criminals will be criminals and

stupid people will be stupid. We happen to live across the street from an apartment complex full of stupid people, since our PD

is there more than anywhere else. The police helicopter flies over this area every other night it seems, and at least twice a year we hear gunshots.

Remember, we live in a big city. But that doesn't ensure our safety!

 

As for the OP's situation, more than likely, when the perpetrators are caught and charged, they will be doing more than just paying a fine!

  

 

Well the reason I said I like living within city limits versus on county lands is not because I like living in high crime areas.  I am talking about safe areas in a city versus county .  The cities I lived in all had laws against firearm discharge.  The counties did not.  The city had rules about pets and animals, the county did not.  The city had code enforcement, the county did not. So for all the things like stray bullets from target practice or hunting, nuisance dogs and farm animals on small properties, and houses in extreme disrepair, I prefer to be within city limits.  I also like being close to hospitals for safety.  

 

I know perfectly well that others prefer county lands for more space that is cheaper, lower taxes, less government intrusion. 

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We had a similar issue in our neighboring county. The police were no help because it isn't illegal to target shoot on your own property if you are outside city limits. The neighbors finally went to all the local tv stations, and they went wild with the story. All the media coverage forced county officials to step in, because it was making them look so bad that children were being endangered by stray bullets.

 

So, I vote that you go to the media. Camera crews love getting footage of bullets lodged in people's homes.

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